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There's a lot more wrong with our understanding of autism than Autism Speaks and other narcissist, obsessed parent groups. A great deal of autism diagnoses come from specialists' stressing early diagnosis so intervention can begin. Lots and lots of "normal" kids get misdiagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, just like they do with ADHD. It's not necessarily a racket but it certainly is a craze.
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Jun 28, 2014 21:46
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ThirdPartyView posted:So you're saying that autism isn't a mental disability? Not everywhere on the spectrum, no.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:02
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twodot posted:I think there is a fairly solid argument for "More than 0% of the time, doctors diagnose people as autistic, when their mental condition is not actually detrimental.", but any definition of autism that doesn't contain "disorder" is obviously broken. In plenty of cases, sure, though in the past those same people might have been diagnosed with mental retardation. Maybe they should never have been moved out of that category. But how oddly specific we are in our definition of "disorder." Which is more debilitating, to flap your arms and hop in place while playing video games or to lack all capacity for analysis or introspection and fail to recognize the danger in Rick Santorum's eyes? To have a detailed interest in trains or to fear people based on their race? e: rkajdi posted:Again, we see the IMO dumb argument that correcting a mental condition makes someone a "different person". Don't backtrack to this, you've already admitted that you think it would be beneficial for all persons who fit your definition of having a "mental condition" to be "cured" by not existing.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:27
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rkajdi posted:Of course Birchers would be. With some decent anti-paranoia medication, they'd lose most of their membership. Yes, medicate all who are guilty of thought deviance.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:35
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rkajdi posted:You can't teach someone out of being autistic. Do you know how autism therapy works? Yeah they don't stop being autistic, but in many cases they learn to live with it. Xyven posted:One of those issues is due to a congenital neurological disorder, the other is due to social pressures and brainwashing from right-wing media sources. You're right, completely comparable situations. My entire point is that they are not comparable, one is much more severe, debilitating and harmful to society. However we overlook it because we are dumb and fear "sickness," like you.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:41
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McDowell posted:We don't even really know what causes Autism, so I doubt a cure is coming anytime soon. Exactly. The clinical perspective on autism is not a scientific approach to diagnosis in the first place. It comes from the discredited realm of early psychology and has certainly not been reformed in the meantime.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:50
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rkajdi posted:You're literally agreeing with me, dumbass. You can't teach someone out of being autistic, you can teach them out of being gullible or racist. Those were the two examples you gave as being "disorders" that weren't diagnosed as such. That's why autism is a disorder, while racism and gullibility are just being a shithead. Can you teach those people though? People come to realizations on their own, but if they are not ready your efforts will only harden their resolve.
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Jun 28, 2014 23:07
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That's because autism is mostly pretend in the first place.rkajdi posted:I'm not agruing dualism at all-- exactly the opposite in fact. Your brain is an organ exactly the same as every other organ in your body. Is someone a different person because they have heart surgery? Also, is someone a different person after having brain sugery to remove a tumor? I hate dualism because at its heart it treats your mental condition as something special and inherently different from the rest of reality. My argument is this "authentic you"/different person idea is flawed from the start. It's an idea that gets hung out there when there is reality to base it on. So we're better off ignoring it, or conversely acting "you" is infinitely fungible for the same body. Who should decide how each person gets to be?
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Jun 28, 2014 23:17
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LeJackal posted:This is one of the things that really chaps me. They can't have any autists on the panel? What's interesting is that when this is suggested, posters respond by imagining that a poo poo-flinging retarded person will be selected, and that if they are not then it doesn't matter. If you are "high-functioning," I guess you are just supposed to be quiet and let others continue to advocate that your ilk be removed from the earth.
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Jun 28, 2014 23:48
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rkajdi posted:I think it's pretty telling when the two biggest MUH RITES leftists we have here both team up to poo poo on a woman's right to choose. Again, guess you stopped reading the bill of rights somewhere between the 3rd and 8th ammendments, correct? Because telling a woman she doesn't have the right to an arbotion for whatever reason she wants means that you just poo poo on the 9th ammendment. Tatum Girlparts posted:So to be clear, a woman finds out she is going to have an autistic child, let's not add any extra poo poo like her being single or anything, just an average woman, she gets an abortion because she's not able to handle that in her life right now. Holy canoli git over yourselves. Quit it with the hair-trigger sensitivity to suggestions that the ethics of abortion might, in some cases, be complicated. Every mother, in every single instance, has the right to an abortion, and no one else on earth has the right to interfere. OK? Now, having said that. Does it in any way disquiet you that parents might someday selectively abort homosexual or transgender fetuses? Just think about the question all by itself, don't worry about your answer making it onto a pro-life pamphlet or something, because it's not going to. Would it be OK if transgender or homosexual people were screened out and vanished from the earth?
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Jun 29, 2014 02:52
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In terms of its diagnosis it is in many cases absolutely pretend.nutranurse posted:Dude, we cannot test for homosexuality or transexuality the way we can test for the mental illness that is autism. Being gay/trans =/= having a mental illness (for instance, being autistic). Why are you drawing this terrible comparison? Just to be obtuse or? We can't test for either of them prenatally at this point. If I'm not mistaken however, that's a goal of Autism Speaks. And being gay or trans was seen as a mental illness by the mental health profession a very short time ago.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:01
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Who What Now posted:No, it's not ok. But no one can do asingle thing to stop them from making that decision for bad reasons, so what's your actual point? Do we normally base our ethical judgment in specific matters on whether or not we can do anything about them?
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Jun 29, 2014 03:04
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rkajdi posted:A woman has an absolute right to choose, so she gets to come up with whatever reason she wants to not have an abortion. And the rest of us get to shut the gently caress up about it and let her do whatever she chooses. I say this as a bi man, which I guess would be enough of a group to be the ones selected for abortion in your story. I wouldn't know any different since I'd never exist and thus would never have thought a thing, and my potentialness wouldn't override the rights of actual existing people. Any position other than this (especially tired liberal pearl-clutching) is starting to put up barriers around a woman's right to choose, which we all know culminates in dead women in allies and lives ruined through unplanned children. We already agreed that she has that right. But would it be appropriate to attempt to educate people that it's possible to live as a fulfilled and worthwhile homosexual or transgender human being?
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Jun 29, 2014 03:06
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Caros posted:How many homosexuals are you aware of who are incapable of surviving on their own for an extended period of time due to their homosexuality. Not social stigma mind you, but their homosexuality makes it impossible for them to balance a checkbook, or handle a change in bus schedules, or not scream uncontrollably when faced with a stranger. I think that autism presents so many different ways and at so many levels of impact that it's a mistake to put them all on a single spectrum. I have worked with youth who were nonverbal and would randomly scream and scratch at their genitals until restrained, and youth who just needed to bounce on a trampoline every once in a while. In both cases the diagnosis was "autism" and that's useless.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:17
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VitalSigns posted:This doesn't strike me as a sensible comparison because the burdens of having a homosexual, transgender, or female (in the case of sex selection) child (besides the imaginary ones stemming from the parents' own bigotry) are an artificial creation of a wider homophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic society. In societies that place large financial burdens on people who have daughters, it's the logical result that some fraction people will respond to those incentives by sex selection. On the contrary, the burden of having an autistic child is a very real thing. I agree completely. I also think that a society with less stingy availability of resources for parents and which is more tolerant of different levels of social engagement and difference in general would be one in which more autistic people would find a place and cease to be a burden. Of course it was not intended as a one-to-one comparison.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:20
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Who What Now posted:It's true that autism is a pretty useless label and does nothing to give anyone a good idea of what to expect, but that doesn't seem like good enough justification to start hand-wringing over the ethics of abortion. Honestly the discussion didn't even start particularly about abortion, somebody mentioned that Autism Speaks may prefer to discover a "cure" as was done for Tay-Sachs, to do genetic screening so those children are never born. rkajdi is just hypersensitive to any topic that may encroach on women's right to choose (which is commendable).
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Jun 29, 2014 03:29
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What can I say? With my own ears, at a conference, I heard one of the country's foremost experts in designing curricula for autistic children say that it's OK that plenty of kids will be given diagnoses of autism despite not being autistic, because it's worth it to provide early intervention to those who do have it. Sorry if your kid has been diagnosed or something.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:39
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That's just saying that this expert does not think that false positives are a problem here in light of the intervention proposed, that is, that it is not going to cause harm to non-autistic people falsely misdiagnosed to be such, not that it's "mostly made up". Are you familiar with prophylactics? Of course, that's exactly how she explained it. But it does mean that there are lots of parents going around saying "my child is autistic" when it isn't true. That's what the words "made up" and "pretend" mean.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:52
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That doesn't mean that at all. They falsely believe that their child has a real problem. That doesn't mean it's a pretend problem, and nobody is making up anything, just using a tool that has many false positives because the damage from not treating someone who has a problem is larger than the damage from treating someone who doesn't have the problem. Doctors will prescribe antibiotics if a false positive comes up for a severe infection, there's no "pretend" involved, just precaution. Advocacy organizations propose that autism is a growing threat. That's made up, and overdiagnosis is why it's made up.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:59
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So you have good evidence that this is the case? As in, you have good methodological debunking of claims such as Autism Speak's about there being a rise that is not just a matter of improved diagnosis? I don't need good evidence, they don't use it. What you call "improved diagnosis" is diagnosis designed to cast as wide a net as possible. It's impossible to draw conclusions about increased incidence -- it's like setting a new record for the Pike's Peak hillclimb after you've paved it.
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Jun 29, 2014 04:24
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Yes, they are making it up. The difference between the CDC's data (and their carefully qualified way of presenting it) and AS' claim should make that clear.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:09
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Michael Jackson posted:Speaking as a fake autist (asberger) i can tell you that autism ruins marriages. My dad left my mom when i was 4 because he didnt want to deal with me and my brother. Last week he went and tested his son (2 1/2 years old) for autism and i feel sad because he is so gonna break up with his russian 20 something year old wife. Sounds more like your dad's an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:44
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Michael Jackson posted:He is. But it is of no importance. I would have left too if you talk like this at home.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:58
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Grouchio posted:Personally I have high-functioning autism. I find it difficult to read some social cues, detect sarcasm and perform pragmatics. It also seems to be linked to allergies, as my brain functions not as efficiently if I were to eat wheat products. Heck, the penicillin in cow's milk made me lose several cognitive abilities when I was a baby until I stopped drinking it. How did you know it was penicillin that did it? A tricorder?
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Aug 31, 2014 08:50
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