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T. Bombastus posted:I'm not autistic or anything, so it's definitely your prerogative to tell me to shut the gently caress up, but isn't it kind of messed up to say "my amount of autism is great, but people who are more autistic than me definitely need help"? Either it's a disease that needs curing or it's not. Maybe this is an inherent problem with it being a "spectrum" of disorders? No, that's basically the inherent problem when dealing with mental disorders in general. Technically speaking, something is only a "disorder" if it negatively affects your life. It's possible to be mildly autistic but not have any sort of autistic "disorder," as there are people whose autism only manifests as a low level of social awkwardness, a bit of mechanical thinking, or hyperlexia. I'm sure we can all think of somebody that's utterly obsessed with one topic, kind of sucks at communication, but otherwise leads a pretty OK life. That person could very well be autistic but have no real problems and thus require no treatment. Psychologically speaking, disorders are ludicrously complex things thanks to how complex the brain is. You just can't draw lines between "has a disorder" and "does not." That's why the diagnosis criteria are kind of vague and people with one disorder tend to end up with at least one more. The treatments for various disorders really, really vary and are customized to the individual. In the case of autism you can end up with people that can write eloquently but barely speak but otherwise function perfectly well. Those people you give some speech therapy. Other times you get people that are effectively mentally retarded and utterly incapable of functioning at all. Both are autistic but need different treatment. My experience has been that most autistic people are actually pretty "normal" in that they have friends, jobs, and homes.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:02
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A big flaming stink posted:forgive me if I find all this medication can fundamentaly alter your personality talk bullshit. Such fears kept me off of pharmaceuticals for years while i tried to work through adhd and severe depression via talk therapy alone. Meds are kind of an odd thing. I've been on and off anti-depressants myself and you make a valid point, but sometimes, the changes in personality aren't worth it. Other times you only need the drugs temporarily. It's case-by-case decision made by mental patients and and mental health professionals. Some people need them their whole lives, some people need them only long enough to fix themselves. You do which one is right for you. But yeah, meds fundamentally alter your personality. That's kind of the point. One of the issues with treating mental disorders is that they ultimately become attached to your personality. I have borderline disorder and I came to realize that certain aspects of my personality grew out of it and had to go. I'm in remission now and much less of an angry, hateful shithead.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:17
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Zephro posted:This is interesting. What would qualify as "who you are fundamentally as a person" if not your personality? Actually that's one of those things that psychology has been trying to sort out, as well as religion, neuroscience, and humanity in general. Given that change is inevitable personality is also mutable, but there are also limits based on brain architecture as well as brain changes altering personality traits. There is just no good, solid answer. There are actually different types of depression and different levels of it. drat near everybody gets depressed at at least some point their life and it's normal to go through a period of depression if you lose somebody close to you or get fired from your dream job or something. Some of it is purely circumstantial like that and sometimes you need a bit of therapy and some drugs to make it easier to deal with or get rid of. The other side of depression is an actual chemical issue in the brain that isn't temporary. These are the people that are depressed all the time no matter what because their brain doesn't function right. The weird thing is anti-depressants work in both cases. It goes back to the personality issue and the disorder thing I discussed earlier; how do you decide of somebody just has a melancholic, irritable temperament but otherwise functions and somebody that is clinically depressed? Generally speaking (and I've been through mental health stuff myself so I know a bit here) stuff only gets treated if it causes distress or problems. This is why there is debate and controversy over autism. Some people argue that autism is not a disorder and is just personality and, to a certain degree, they are right, but the issue is that some peoples' autism is utterly crippling. Trying to make one decision one way or the other for all autism is absurd.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:54
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I'm not really concerned about "becoming an actual different person" or some p-zombie psychobabble like that. I'm concerned because the brain is intricate enough that modifying it necessarily has side effects. Social skills are important, obviously, but they're not the skill-set I possess that's most important for my career. If the hypothetical autism cure improves my social skills, but in turn damages the skills I have that I'm currently very happy with, then it would not be worth it at all to me. It'd be like if a blind composer could cure his blindness, but risk losing his musical talent. Furthermore, the science of the brain is complicated enough that I don't trust the doctors in charge of such an experimental cure to accurately know whether there's a risk of such a thing - and I personally suspect it'd be inevitable, as autism is a complicated, poorly-understood condition that tends to correspond with other mental conditions, ranging from other disorders to positive conditions such as giftedness. That right there is actually why mental health services are set up the way they are. Done properly there is a dialog between the professionals and the patient and the final say is almost always with the patient. Patients have a bunch of different options for whatever issues they have and they are well within their rights to refuse treatments for just those reasons, even if their disorders are completely crippling. The only time patients can have treatments forced on them is if they are genuinely dangerous to others which, I get a weird feeling, only extremely rarely applies to autism. This, though, does not mean a cure for autism or treatment for its issues should not be developed or worked on simply because some people would be all "I know the risks, let's do this anyway." The choice lies with the patient and it would be pretty awful to deny the people who do want the cure the cure. You do make a valid point and can make your own choice on the matter but, really, it's a thing that is up to individuals. In my case, for example, my therapist gave me crap about the fact that I'm reclusive and thought there was some social anxiety going on but, really, I'm just pretty solitary and not particularly social to the point where it would be considered a disorder in others. I chose not to have that treated or looked at simply because, well, I'm kind of a hermit and I like to have that extra time to work on stuff and get better at things than talk to people. Of course some people would find my largely solitary life with few friends to be depressing and awful. For them treatment and help exists. I didn't use them because they were unnecessary for me.
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Jul 16, 2014 08:36
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