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Police aren't the only problem... the problem is systemic. Police only utilize the power and the role that courts have defined for them. By this I mean, police arrest people constantly on bullshit charges because they know the court system will back them up. How can you even arrest a person for "resisting arrest" as their only charge, let alone an untold percentage or your arrests? What arrest where they resisting? Cops are, in essence, cleared from all wrong doing because they know they have absolute authority and they know that the court system will back them, it isn't about their union. Sure, their union is a problem; because they protect the obviously criminal acts of some officers, but the officers commit these acts because they know the legal system is always going to back them. The Union is doing it's job, the system itself is loving corrupt. Once upon a time I would walk to and drink daily at a certain bar. One of the people I met there was a law enforcement officer. I liked him, and we had a great time together. Still, he drove home drunk; not just drunk, but loving hammered, every night. I mean every night, we were there seven days a week. I would walk home, he would drive 20 miles to his house. He even told me that he had been pulled over on numerous occasions, but luckily, once the people that pulled him over realized he was a cop, they gave him a warning and let him go. He would laugh about that. To him it was a joke. Until we end the belief that cops are infallible, we will always have this problem.
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Jun 29, 2014 21:18
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The cop in that video didn't ticket the driver, because the cop realized the driver was only highlighting his illegal behavior. Sure, the trucker was being a dick with his horn, but you could argue, and I think would be able to argue in court, that he was using his horn for safety reasons. The cop had no excuse, and to pull the trucker over and lecture him, that was a classic example of "power".
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Jun 29, 2014 21:32
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wixard posted:I don't know, I must be the only one who doesn't think horns exist on cars to point out other people's traffic violations. I've personally never seen anyone on the road honking at cars who pass them too fast. The trucker was doing it intentionally to a COP, not a random person. The difference should be obvious.
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Jun 29, 2014 22:25
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wixard posted:Well you fooled me when you mentioned arguing in court. If we were all allowed to be more critical of cops than average people when they break the law, we might not need to have this thread. You haven't refuted or negated anything I said. I used the word 'court' for a reason, but you seem to think I was joking, or that my use of it was a joke. Do you even know what your were or are even arguing anymore?
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Jun 29, 2014 23:50
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meat sweats posted:As long as you continue to insist that public employee unions are good, you will get nowhere with this. They are the main reason cops are able to act with impunity. In California, the prison guards union blocks attempts at relaxing mandatory minimums and drug laws on an annual basis. I wrote it above, and I will repeat it: The unions do their jobs, they aren't the problem. The problem is systemic; a justice system from cops to courts that allows this to happen. It isn't the Unions.
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Jun 29, 2014 23:53
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meat sweats posted:If you're just going to admit that symbolic gestures in support of "union power" are more important to you than civil liberties and racial equality, then you are part of the problem. This is not a Union issue, this a political and systemic issue that involves a completely corrupt justice system. There are Union problems in law enforcement, especially in California's prison system. I, and others, realize that. It does, however, take a back seat to the reality that our justice system is dysfunctional. Accretionist posted:Then keep the discussion to police unions rather than public sector unions writ large as others are doing. He is so wrong, it doesn't matter. To him, the union causes crime and it causes police abuse; all while it causes overcrowding prisons. Or something.
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Jun 29, 2014 23:58
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Enid Coleslaw posted:If you have problems with cops then maybe try not doing crimes? I haven't even spoken to a police officer since the last time I was arrested. Every innocent person ever questioned or arrested or hosed over by the cops just punched you in the face. It wouldn't be a problem if they weren't so predatory. If you could trust them, cops would be awesome. Here, watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc Pohl fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 00:07
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meat sweats posted:Police unions will literally barricade a courthouse and prevent an officer from being put on trial. Prison guard unions sank bills in the California legislature to relieve horrific prison conditions and mandatory minimums which had actually attracted sufficient support from delegates. Those sound like systemic issues, not union issues. If they block a courthouse, have another law enforcement agency arrest them. This doesn't happen, not because they are unionized, but because they are police! The California prison guard union is really bad, I won't defend it; it is however, a systemic issue, not an issue with public unions. It is about the way we treat our criminal justice system.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:09
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meat sweats posted:I would be all for the FBI's role of investigating local police abuse being expanded aggressively. Great idea. Now, when the unionized Chicago cops start shooting back at the FBI agents, you are going to stand with me and demand that we not back down from this plan, right? Yes? Why do you have to ask? The police need to be policed. The reason they aren't is not because of Unions, it is because of a stupid brotherhood of law enforcement that protects them. As I said, it is s systemic.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:23
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Athaalin posted:Aren't these the kind of situations that the national guard is for? If your enforces are dabbling with warlord-ism who would you turn to? I can't imagine the FBI would do anything, nor any other three letter agency, heck if anything I'd think they'd support them. Is there any other protection for civilians besides some flavor of military? In that case the local Sheriff office should step up and do something. The National Guard is not needed. This is only true until there is a Federal investigation and order demanding that something is done, then the National Guard might be used.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:26
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meat sweats posted:Ah, the problem isn't the policemen's union, the problem is the brotherhood of law enforcement. That clears it up. If you can't understand the difference, maybe you shouldn't be having this conversation? The difference is vast and for you to even compare them, well, you really don't understand what you are talking about. computer parts posted:Police unions are the ultimate example of how a collectivist society can still be FYGM. What Collectivist society are you talking about, because I don't see one around here.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:33
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computer parts posted:A hypothetical collectivist society. A collectivist society wouldn't need unions, so whatever point you were trying to make means nothing. 
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Jun 30, 2014 00:38
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computer parts posted:Police Unions:Society::Hypothetical Collectivist Society:Rest of World. So what exactly did your post mean, since you told me it was hypothetical? Don't come down on me for not understanding what you mean when you aren't being specific. Make a post that actually articulates what you mean.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:50
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Never mind.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:55
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meat sweats posted:I'm demonstrating that this is in fact the case in some respects, no matter how poorly it may sit with you. meat sweats posted:The left doesn't care about cop abuses. This is a liberal issue in which leftist rhetoric has been mobilized in favor of a fascist police state agenda. You have no idea what the Left cares about. You should probably listen to them, hear what they say; then you might have an idea. The Left isn't a boogie man you loving idiot. Are you saying that the left is in support of the police and prison situations in our country? Pohl fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 00:58
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meat sweats posted:Pardon me if after sitting through the last Venezuela thread, in which the leftist brigade defended shooting into protests, detention without charge, and actual torture in jails by the police, I would rather side with the ACLU than the Z Magazine brigade on this issue. I shouldn't have to explain the lengthy history of leftist police states to convince you that a union which exists literally to make sure none of its members are ever held accountable for violating civil liberties is bad. What the gently caress are you even talking about? You sound like a wounded animal right now, thrashing around to survive.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:13
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meat sweats posted:I dunno, I figured it was about as relevant as someone trying to make this about Israel. I don't really have to prove that ideologically committed leftists support unlimited state power, though. You just never stop giving, do you? Except this isn't Christmas and you aren't Santa.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:31
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meat sweats posted:What people who work for a living? I thought we were talking about cops. Funny. Cops work for a living in a dangerous environment. The problem comes, when we militarize them and make them proactive rather than reactive. (for the basic cop). You've twisted this entirely into the cop union controlling every cop and causing untold harm upon society. Edit: I Can't believe we have a cop thread in D&D where most of us are defending the cops. Well done you fucker, well done.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:36
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:This is a lie. Twist it however you want. That doesn't mean we should militarize them or glamorize them. Their burden of danger is overrepresented but it is always present. That takes a toll. meat sweats posted:Literally "you don't know what it's LIKE out there, you stupid civvie." Nice "leftism." No, you should shut the gently caress up, because you are dumb. Pohl fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 01:52
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meat sweats posted:And even though they don't do these things, they still die and are injured more, as are many other professions. I know right, those police guys are assholes. gently caress you. Very few cops make $200K a year. Nor, do they have immunity from laws. See, you just sound like a jackass. You have a point, but is so hyperbolic that no on can hear it without laughing. You might be able to find individual cases that prove whatever you are saying, but it isn't the norm. It isn't real. You have already embarrassed yourself enough.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:06
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Amused to Death posted:Actually no, I'd say the fatality rate an occupation has among workers is actually a pretty good indication of how dangerous it is on a day to day basis and if I recall cops don't even make the top 20 from BLS statistics. Not to mention a lot of cops work in suburban/rural towns with very infrequent occasions of violent crime and incidents. Yeah, most cops work in areas that offer them no threat. Actually, because of budgets, most cops have everything to worry about, physically. In Boise, if you call the police, you get 12 cops within 3 minutes. I'm not even joking. I called for a noise complaint awhile back and there were 12 cops, and I thought they were going to arrest me for awhile. I don't like cops, but the arguments against them here are loving stupid. Pohl fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 02:11
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EvanSchenck posted:He's not arguing against cops, he's arguing against organized labor writ large and using police as a the venue for that. Yeah, I know. We had that argument a lot of posts ago. It seems to be circular.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:17
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:It depends on the job. Just guessing, but I think a cop who does mostly drug busts is probably going to have a pretty low mortality rate compared to highway patrol. There are a ton of statistics. Cops are completely safe, but some of them face dangerous situations everyday. We need to get past this idea that cops are completely safe or cops are loving going to die every time they blink, idea. It isn't that easy.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:35
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Samurai Sanders posted:One thing I've never known is, how are cop jobs doled out? How is it decided who gets the dangerous jobs/areas and who gets the safe jobs/areas? Volunteering? The say-so of their boss? Dumb luck? It has mostly to do with job status, but that doesn't matter. The thing to understand is, as a cop, you are not going to die today. When you wake up, put on your uniform and gun, you are not going to die. The statistics show that, what they don't show is the toll that cops experience day in and day out thinking they may die. Because they might. I mean, we all might, but cops have a job that puts them at a supposedly higher risk than everybody else. It doesn't matter if they are going to die, they all actually believe they might. That is how we train them, because we train them like soldiers. Never let your guard down, everyone is a scumbag.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:51
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Fruity Rudy posted:If this hasn't been posted yet, massive piece with many of the recent cases that show exactly why reform is needed urgently: "When people ask why I have a problem with law enforcement in the U.S., it's hard to come up with a single answer." http://www.ryot.org/police-beat-man-to-death-wife-and-kids/709565 Holy poo poo. They killed her husband, they knew he was dead. They didn't try to do anything for him at all, they just propped him up like it was all ok. Then, the cop talking to her was a complete condescending prick to her. I don't even know what the gently caress I just watched, that was loving horrible.
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Aug 22, 2014 03:38
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zeal posted:This event from my state is linked in that great big list: http://youtu.be/DkhrWZ6twjw I was trying to decide if I should post that or not, but I didn't want to just come in and post a bunch of links. That, however, is some really crazy poo poo. I don't know what I would do if I were there, I guess I would wait for the real cops to arrive, but I'd want to kick his rear end. Look at her, she is terrified. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 06:59
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Cuntpunch posted:What? The only thing next to his beer was his phone. As the man filming clearly says. I thought he said it was his gun? poo poo, a phone is nowhere near as fun as a gun. I must have completely misheard that. Edit: ah, the accent got me. I watched that part over and over and I still have to remind myself that he said "phone", even though I can clearly see a phone sitting there. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 07:03
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Obdicut posted:It's especially problematic because a lot of the time police do announce themselves, perfunctorily, by screaming "Police", but when you're suddenly startled you're not necessarily going to process what the hell the screaming person is saying. No-knock warrants, especially. If you suddenly confront a sleeping/high/drunk person, you can't honestly claim you 'identified' yourself as a cop just by screaming 'police'. For some reason we have had a lot of people in my area decide that they could be better crooks by presenting themselves as police. The jokes write themselves, obviously. However, the police had to recognize that people were doing this, and we've been told to not pull over for an unmarked car, but to instead keep driving and call 911. All in all, it sounds like a great way to get shot.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:40
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E-Tank posted:loving christ, I feel like an idiot. Don't feel like an idiot. You thought you were going to see justice done and you got excited. Now you know (better) how the system works. It only gets worse.
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Aug 28, 2014 07:36
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GreyPowerVan posted:See, if someone is banging on my door and shouting, I sure as hell won't be up and out of my room ready to answer the door in 15~ seconds. More than likely I'll be disoriented and think someone's breaking in. My neighbor was banging on my door like that earlier this week, and it took me a long time to answer the door. Not only did I have to wake up and orient myself, I had to actually decide to answer the door. I probably wouldn't have answered the door normally, but the way he was knocking made me think that it was either the police or an emergency. The fucker had lost his phone and wanted me to call him so he could find it, but seriously, it took me forever to wake up and put on just a pair of shorts. If it were cops, they would have been through my door, either shot my cats or let them outside, and I'd be left sitting naked in handcuffs.
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Sep 4, 2014 03:41
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Strongylocentrotus posted:Is this where we post articles about police doing awful things? 'cuz I have a great new article about police doing awful things. I stole this link from the Pet Island chicken thread and am sharing it here for your reading That is really hosed up. What police officer takes you having illegal chickens so personally that he comes by and kills them himself?
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Sep 4, 2014 08:31
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Vahakyla posted:On-duty officers kill another on-duty officer in a domestic dispute. That reads a lot like suicide by cop.
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Sep 25, 2014 20:17
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Vahakyla posted:It seems to be sheer incompetence, twitchiness, some racism and hefty amount of retardation instead of malice. Yeah, he freaked the gently caress out. Why is the question, and it is an important question. He asked the dude for ID, so the guy went to get it, which was interpreted by the cop as a hostile or dangerous act. I wouldn't be comfortable with a guy jumping into his car that way either, but I sure as poo poo wouldn't have shot him in the back. The cop didn't pull the guy over to murder him, the cop just freaked the gently caress out. Tight Booty Shorts posted:I understand what you're saying now... but idk it just seems way too shady to me the way he told him to get his license and then FREAKS OUT AND STARTS FIRING Most men carry their ID in their wallet, so I don't think the cop expected him to go back to the vehicle. The cop is a dumb rear end, but I doubt he set the guy up to get killed.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:10
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SedanChair posted:How fuckin' splendid, 900K in hospital bills. I knew about this, but the pictures, holy gently caress. Have we no shame?
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Oct 17, 2014 01:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:Maintaining order isn't the same as being an enforcer for whomever is in power, even if the end result is the same sometimes. You're talking about different ideas of what constitutes justice. Pretty much everyone agrees that it is unjust to unlawfully take another's property or to arbitrarily detain someone, but when you ask if it is just for a man to steal medicine he cannot afford in order to treat his sick wife, (or whether it is just to arrest that man,) there is disagreement. The police are going to arrest theives regardless of their noble intentions, because we've agreed as a society that you can't just take things, regardless of how much you think you need them. What the gently caress is maintaining order if it isn't being an enforcer for the elite? You are trying to make this complicated when in fact, the police are paid by the rich. That poo poo is obvious. The police in America are an arm of the elite. What makes it so sad is, the police don't even loving realize it. The police think they are the last bastion between anarchy and the middle class, but they are beating up and murdering middle class dudes like crazy. It isn't an an argument about enforcement or power, it is about loving justice. If you equate justice in anything you wrote, you don't understand justice at all.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:25
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Armyman25 posted:Police are paid by the taxpayers. If you're saying the rich pay most of the taxes, why shouldn't they get preferential treatment? Why don't we bring back usury laws? Stupid poo poo is stupid, and what you wrote is stupid. Poor people pay a lot of taxes, just not Federal income taxes. You are trying to be inflammatory, but you ended up making yourself look foolish. The police are funded locally; through a mix of local taxes, including sales, income and property taxes. Edit: or, traffic tickets and other seemingly benign tickets that add up to a stupid amount of money. Example: Ferguson. Pohl fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 08:41
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Evil_Greven posted:Alas, looks like another incident where police shot someone. Few details yet, other than the name being passed around is Antonio Martin - and the location is in Berkley (the town next door to Ferguson), Missouri. So people don't think you are crazy, this has already happened: Baltimore Fox Affiliate Edits Protest Footage To Sound Like 'Kill A Cop' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibeZCkHwb-I The chant was: "we won't stop, we can't stop, 'til killer cops are in cell blocks." Cspan video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZfbrItDvrU
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Dec 24, 2014 09:09
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repeating posted:God drat it. Really? I'd say this would at least cause enough uproar to make a difference, but we already have video of Eric Garner and others. Did it make a difference? Nope. Wrong thread? We are discussing the death of yet another black teen in the politics thread. I don't think the news has hit this thread yet. Edit: "A Missouri teen was fatally shot by police just two miles from Ferguson, Mo., according to witnesses at the scene. Antonio Martin, 18, was shot at 1 a.m. on Christmas Eve at Mobil gas station in Berkeley, Mo., the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. The victim's mother, Toni Martin, spoke to the publication and said her son was shot by police. The hashtag #AntonioMartin is gaining traction on social media. Those at the scene, along with The Dispatch, report approximately 60 to 100 people have gathered around the gas station where the shooting took place. The officer attempted to search Martin, who refused, Christo said. "The officer then stepped back and drew his weapon and pointed at Antonio and told us to lay on the ground," Christo said. "I layed [sic] down but Antonio Refused [sic]. "The officer then began to step back from us with his gun still aimed at us. He told Antonio to lay down once again and when Antonio didn't lay down the officer opened fire. And when I tried to get up to help my friend he screamed at me to stay down with his weapon still drawn." This turned out to be a liar whom was only looking for attention. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/24/antonio-martin-police-shooting_n_6376210.html Pohl fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 09:49
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As a white man at 1 AM, I am going to walk to the store in San Diego with the knowledge that no one is going to shoot me. I loving won the lottery.
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Dec 24, 2014 10:01
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Ra-amun posted:The guy on twitter claiming to be his friend was making poo poo up, already corrected in the link. loving Christ.
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Dec 24, 2014 10:54
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