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I've finally reached the point on my perpetual TR6 project where I'm ready to repaint the exterior. I've done everything else myself, and finding someone to paint a non-insurance job car inexpensively and in a timely manner is pretty much impossible, so I'm going to tackle this too. I'm looking for advice on what paint to use. This isn't a car-show quality restoration I'm doing (not looking to spend several grand on a paint job), but I'd still like it to look nice since I've put so much work into it over the years. I've heard good things about the $50 Rustoleum jobs, and seen some impressive results. However. they seem to trade cost for tons of required labor to get good results. I plan to spray whatever I end up using (gently caress rolling it on), and will do all the necessary prep work in advance, so it really comes down to a paint that will look nice, last a reasonable amount of time, be easy to work with, and not cost a fortune. Something with a quicker dry time and fewer coats required would also be nice to limit the chances of contamination. For those of you that have done your own painting, what have you find that worked best?
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Jun 30, 2014 20:56
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I'd be curious if there really is such a thing as a paint that can be sprayed on and not create orange peel that then needs to be sanded and then polished off.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:01
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Use real paint. My friend's rustoleum job started fading only after a year. He had like a week of sanding in it too. Even if you do all the work yourself, consider renting a paint booth and at least using automotive paint. The lime green on my Volvo was low end Nason paint, single stage, and lasted over 7 years before starting to fade. A nice buffing brings it back but without regular work it fades in a couple of months in the AZ sun.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:06
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I don't think I can rent a booth anywhere nearby. The way the car is built, 95% of the painting is on removable parts (hood, trunk, doors, 4 wings). All that has to be painted on the car is the small rear deck area and the strip the windscreen bolts into. So for the bulk of it, I can get away with a much smaller painting area. I don't mind having to sand and polish, I figure that's inevitable. I just don't want to have to do 8 coats with 2 days of drying time and a wet sand in between each one.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:15
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Do you have a garage or other enclosed area you can use to paint in? A DIY paint booth made with PVC sheeting isn't that expensive and will keep most contaminants out if you do the prep work. If you have a sprayer and can get automotive paint you could probably do a pretty decent job yourself.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:25
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Awww yeah:     Looks great from far but far from great. 20 dollar gallon tractor paint + paint reducer + questionable gun and compressor aww yeahhhhh. Didn't even do more coats or sand it. No fucks given. (don't do this, it's hilariously bad)
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Jun 30, 2014 21:27
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skipdogg posted:Do you have a garage or other enclosed area you can use to paint in? A DIY paint booth made with PVC sheeting isn't that expensive and will keep most contaminants out if you do the prep work. If you have a sprayer and can get automotive paint you could probably do a pretty decent job yourself. Yeah, I have a big area to work in, 80Gal compressor, and the finest HVLP gun harbor freight has to offer. Slow is Fast posted:Awww yeah:  That texture probably knocks 2-3 mpg off alone.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:31
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Maybe it's like a golf ball and the imperfections are actually good for MPG. I've been wanting this thread to come along. My E36 has actually really good paint for being nearly 25 years old, but at some point I'd like to have it redone. If I could get something approaching a factory finish I'd be interested in doing it myself. I already have the compressor so I'd really just need guns, a booth, and a drier.
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Jun 30, 2014 21:35
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Not mine, but here's my buddys Ranger he painted in his shed:   
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Jun 30, 2014 22:07
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I painted my buddy's RX-7 with rustoleum for fun a few years ago. Sorry for potato quality photos, you'll have to trust me that there was zero orange peel or unevenness in the paint. Course, it took over a week working 6-10 hours every day to get it that way, but hey, $82 paint job. 3 coats of primer with sanding in between each coat 4 coats of yellow with wet sanding between 2 coats of satin black for the roof and hood, light sanding. We ran out of money and time to do a clear-coat, so it faded to pale yellow in a couple years. Still looked good though.   With that said, use real automotive paint and a real spray gun if you can, it's so much better in every way. Terrible Robot fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 22:18
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I'm sorta wondering how much more automotive paint would actually be. I get the impression that PPG and other "name brand" paints are pretty expensive but surely there's gotta be something available that works out pretty well from a gun. Isn't part of the appeal of the Rustoleum job that it's pretty dense and will self-level to a certain extent as opposed to spray paint which makes ugly runs if your technique is poo poo? Whenever I've used a spray bomb I've always made terrible ugly runs when I change direction, so all of my paint jobs are a combination of me repeatedly wet sanding the runs down and then going "don't gently caress up this time don't gently caress up this time don't gently caress up this time" instead of being loose and pleasant. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 22:39
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10 major tips for doing your own paint: 1. prep 2. prep 3. prep 4. sand 5. sand 6. prep 7. sand 8. prep 9. prep 10. sand I just did some spot repairs on my car, that turned out so-so. I got the finish near perfect, but all the little mistakes at the very start show through. This little area was a week of painting and sanding repeatedly until i got it right. This was with a custom mix spraybomb, and clearcoat spraybomb. If i took a few days and sanded between color and clear, it likely would have come out perfect, but i rushed it, that goes back to point 7. It has given me the confidence to do the entire car though, i just don't have the cash for it at this point   A few years ago i hit a moose with my truck. This was done in a dusty shop with a single stage urethane. fiberglass repair took a week, paint took an hour, but i had the advantage of a hard body line i could paint up to. This was done without sanding or buffing or anything the final coat. There's orange peel, but it matches the "professional" job on the rest of the truck.       Basically, anybody has it in them to do a 8/10 job in their garage. It's just a matter of spending a fuckton of time on the inital prep work, and being able to sand off fairly expensive paint if something goes wrong. If your hooptie is really terrible and you'd be fine with a 3/10 job, a week of sanding and a couple wet coats of single stage urethane would get you going pretty quick. If you check eastwood's website, you can get some pretty sick colors in single stage too. You'll also find all the guides you need to do an ok job.
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Jun 30, 2014 22:39
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Powershift posted:[..] This was with a custom mix spraybomb, [..]
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Jun 30, 2014 22:40
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Where are you getting custom mix spraybombs from in AB? Eastwood won't ship anything aerosol to AB because our recycling laws are apparently somehow strange. CAPS - central alberta paint supply here in red deer.
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Jun 30, 2014 22:46
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If you are going to the effort of spraying it properly you might as well use proper auto paint. Then do loads of coats of clear over the top to protect it! I sprayed my landrover in Hammerite (like rustoleum I guess). Might have well have rollered it. I have since rollered and brushed replacement parts and you can't tell them apart from the bits i sprayed, since it dries pretty much the same. I have also done my saab. Used cellulose paint. It looked great to start with but I Didn't clear coat it and it has since collected stone chips and stains (bird poo poo and screenwash are both bastards!), so i'm going to redo it. I have also done another landrover with cellulose. I was spraying onto bare ally and despite spraying it with proper mixed etch primer over the last 5 years it has reacted and my paint is all speckly 
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Jun 30, 2014 22:55
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Preparation is the key. The better prepped, the better the result. Also, dont do what I did and paint a rally car with mission brown house paint with a paint brush with no fucks given. Results will vary - that's not to say that painting with a brush wont work, I've seen that work mindblowingly well and I do want to try that out properly one day.
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Jul 1, 2014 04:08
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I'm kinda curious about painting a car with industrial-grade paint like POR Hardnose; according to POR it's supposed to be resistant against brake fluid, paint stripper and "strong acids." I think it's supposed to be a chassis paint, but then they also have a clearcoat available and Hardnose is UV-resistant unlike regular POR15 so I'm surprised to see nobody's done it on a car yet. It has scary words like "isocyanate" however so maybe that's why. I've seen a car painted in Endura (dump truck paint) before but the prep work was terrible and corrosion is showing through.
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Jul 1, 2014 05:10
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Where are you getting custom mix spraybombs from in AB? Eastwood won't ship anything aerosol to AB because our recycling laws are apparently somehow strange. NAPA can mix them too, or at least the one near me can. Just to add what has been said here. I did a motorcycle myself and it was a poo poo ton of work. Endless wet sanding and polishing to get it looking good. The end result was spectacular but I don't want to think about what doing a whole car would be like.
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Jul 1, 2014 06:09
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It's been said, but prep work is crucial. The more prep and taping you do, the better. Here's a link to the full album of pictures from my paint project, all taken in glorious Potato-Vision.
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Jul 1, 2014 11:49
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By prep, are we just talking about sanding everything to a perfectly smooth, uniform state before doing any painting? I hardly need to do any taping, because the only parts left on the car are getting painted, and the main panels will all be painted off the car, so there's nothing to mask. I did the whole engine bay in POR15 with topcoat (brushed). I didn't care too much about finish in there, so while it's prepped really well to promote adhesion, I still have brush strokes, uneven areas, drips, and runs. I'll post a picture later today of the current state of things.
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Jul 1, 2014 13:07
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Powershift posted:Basically, anybody has it in them to do a 8/10 job in their garage. It's just a matter of spending a fuckton of time on the inital prep work, and being able to sand off fairly expensive paint if something goes wrong. If your hooptie is really terrible and you'd be fine with a 3/10 job, a week of sanding and a couple wet coats of single stage urethane would get you going pretty quick. If you check eastwood's website, you can get some pretty sick colors in single stage too. You'll also find all the guides you need to do an ok job. That sums it up perfectly. I also thought I was going to be smart and not do a roll-on paint job, I was going to buy affordable spray stuff and do it myself. Unless you have done this before, I advise against it because in the end I spent more than if I would have just gone to a body shop, and the quality is about a 7/10. I used Summit Racing paints since they were cheaper than anything else I could find, and you can get it online. It adds up after you factor in all the epoxy primer, 2k primer, reducers, activators, clear, etc. 'Etc' here includes paint booth materials, HVLP guns, renting a wheelbarrow compressor so I can get decent CFM, new air fittings that aren't harbor freight, respirator, paint suit, masking materials, sanding blocks, sandpaper, tack cloths, body filler, polishes. Almost all these expenses are just because I wanted to spray on paint.  Oh good it is metallic, that won't be hard for a newbie to spray correctly. I spent a few months of nights and weekends getting the bodywork mostly corrected. The sides of the bed had a waviness to them that took a lot of sanding and many passes with body filler to get out.  I framed up a paint booth that was uncomfortably small with little air flow. This sucks   Epoxy primer sprayed on, but way too thick. Time to wait a week and sand it all back!  Primed with real primer. I realized afterwards that it would have been a great idea to stop at this point and do more bodywork, but I was so done with that poo poo  Spraying on the money coat. I don't have any good photos of the tiger-stripe pattern I laid down, but it was bad. Time to wait another week and sand it all back!  All done spraying silver and clear. Mistake #387,345: The last layer of silver is a mist coat to even out the metallic pattern. I sprayed 3 coats of clear using this same pattern/flow and it did not look or feel awesome. SIGH   50 hours of sanding and polishing later, it turned out ok   Can't forget the 80's stickers! TL;DR - roll it on or find a body shop
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Jul 1, 2014 17:16
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So what you're saying is that I definitely should just vinyl wrap my econobox track rat/jackstand queen instead of repainting it.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:59
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What's harder to make look better, light or dark paint? I'm doing this jag and I know my body work won't be perfect, but its already black with multiple layers of poo poo.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:23
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BrokenKnucklez posted:What's harder to make look better, light or dark paint? I'm doing this jag and I know my body work won't be perfect, but its already black with multiple layers of poo poo. White is stupidly easy to make look passable. metallics are really, really hard. i'm fixing the gas door and hoodscoop holes on my metallic green pick-up, and holy hell does it not want to go down even. quote:I used Summit Racing paints since they were cheaper than anything else I could find, and you can get it online. It adds up after you factor in all the epoxy primer, 2k primer, reducers, activators, clear, etc. 'Etc' here includes paint booth materials, HVLP guns, renting a wheelbarrow compressor so I can get decent CFM, new air fittings that aren't harbor freight, respirator, paint suit, masking materials, sanding blocks, sandpaper, tack cloths, body filler, polishes. Almost all these expenses are just because I wanted to spray on paint. Think of it as an investment though. The first paint job you do will cost close to a professional job, but there are a lot of one-time costs like paint guns and compressors. Your second paint job will be dirt cheap, and you'll probably know how to do it. You don't really think of consumables too much, but if you're going for a 7-8/10 paint job, you will sand off $100 worth of paint and filler with $100 worth of sandpaper. Octopus Magic posted:So what you're saying is that I definitely should just vinyl wrap my econobox track rat/jackstand queen instead of repainting it. This is the exact opposite of what we're saying. We're saying your first paint job is gonna be a lot of work and will probably suck, but you'll learn enough about doing it right to do a decent job on the next car, which you might really want a good job on.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:44
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So what you're saying is I need to buy more lovely, rusty cars to use as canvases. Gotcha! Can I come along with you to the next auction?
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Jul 1, 2014 20:52
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You don't even need to resort to rusty ones. I got the bmw for a grand at michener allen in calgary. I just missed a $600 deesul jetta at graham in calgary a few months back, too. I even regret the 1994 eagle summit i could have gotten for $50. Coulda given it the incredible hulk from tokyo drift treatment. Painting a car is something i think every car guy really needs in his toolbox. The craftsmen of the past are all dead, dying, retired, or retarded from the fumes, and there just doesn't seem to be anybody to replace them. In 10 years, a good paint job is either going to have to come out of your hand or your hide. My mom's jeep got backed into, and with barely any damage, the $750 repair from carstar was nowhere near what i could have done with an afternoon and a rattle can, even in my limited experience.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:07
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skipdogg posted:Do you have a garage or other enclosed area you can use to paint in? A DIY paint booth made with PVC sheeting isn't that expensive and will keep most contaminants out if you do the prep work. If you have a sprayer and can get automotive paint you could probably do a pretty decent job yourself. Yep. That's the way to go.  A painters tarp was put on the ground before this was used for paint, and the garage door was slightly open with several furnace filters stacked up as an "output". The input was an old furnace (running on fan only) with several furnace filters on it's intake to insure clean air. I also made a diffuser......don't laugh, it worked:  This was my first time spraying metallic, and it's hard. Not impossible to learn, but definitely not something to start out with.  (you can see the exhaust filters a bit in that shot) The one thing to keep in mind if you build your own paint booth is that the quality of your job is pretty much directly proportional to how much light you have. The sections where I had insufficient light turned out markedly worse than the rest and required a lot more cutting. In the end, it turned out just fine and is still looking good 6 years later. The car is garaged, but I drive it all year.  Edit: The paint I used was EXPENSIVE. But I don't paint with cheap paints anymore after painting with good stuff - there is simply no comparison to how it sprays and lasts compared to cheap paints. This was all DuPont Chroma system stuff, with a garnet red metallic base (red pigments are expensive) and 3 clear coats. There's about $600 in paint on that car. Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 21:26
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I got a sample of Delfleet Essential ESSS Single Stage paint to try out on a spare body panel. This is a few steps above Rustoleum, but still affordable (I should be able to spray the whole car for <$200 in paint). The paint store lady said it was pretty beginner friendly and didn't require a ton of extra work or super skills to get good results. Should only take a couple coats too. I'm going to prep and spray a spare trunk sometime this week and see how it goes.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:47
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If you can get it to lay down well there's no reason not to go for it. Under $200 is a great deal.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:48
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You know those companies that are kinda smaller in the game but make amazing quality stuff for less? http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ Not much choice on their paints, but the system (clears, primers etc.) is amazing, I use it instead of ppg now. I'll still get a ppg base if I need it, but the clear and epoxy primer is excellent for the bargain price.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:30
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If you are going with a metallic color, here's some tips from Fart Pipe's awesome uncle, who does amazing paint jobs by all accounts. Thin it down a lot. Not too much, but a lot. Do lots of thin coats. The first few coats, angle/orientation doesn't matter much, but the last few coats, do them with the body panels all on the car in their final position or you won't get the flake all laid down the right orientation. Don't swing your arm in a radial pattern like you'll be tempted to, stay like 12-18" from the panel the whole length of the car, maintaining a consistent angle and travel speed. Use an air dryer/good filter in your air line or you are going to fisheye the poo poo out of it. Prep is key, as already noted. Using the proper solvents for surface cleaning before sanding, the proper solvents and materials for wiping it down between layers and sanding, etc is the difference between paint peeling the gently caress off if you look at it funny, or coming out great. It's not just sanding, literally everything that touches the car between the bare sheetmetal and the clearcoat matters immensely. Humidity and temperature are very important. Cleanliness of everything is crucial.
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Jul 8, 2014 02:28
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Yeah, the radial pattern thing is a big deal. I was watching one of the Eastwood "how to paint" videos where that was his main advice. Even do a practice run with no trigger just to make sure you don't trip yourself up with the hose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9WQmicyJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coZ6NA-KJdo
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Jul 8, 2014 02:34
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I've done three complete paint jobs in my garage now using a spray gun. I just finished my BMW, and it turned out really well (in fact, the guy who was helping me set the trunk and hood is a retired auto paint sales rep, and he thought I had already wet sanded and buffed the panels).  I got a discount on the materials for this car, but I think the walk-in prices were about : $700 for paint and hardener (my first single stage paint job) $300 for Urethane 2k primer/surfacer and hardener $400 for epoxy primer Then add in body filler cost ($25/gal for filler, $40/quart for glaze) and $$$ for sandpaper. I have about 450 hours in the paint and body work for this car, and that isn't too far off of reality. The panels were in bad shape everywhere. For the hood, trunk, and fenders, here is an approximate time breakdown: ~60 hours of body work ~20 hours of wet sanding and other prep ~10 hours of spraying For sanding filler, I went 36grit, 80grit, reapply until straight (many, many, many times in most cases). Skim coat with metal glaze, 80 grit, 120grit, 220grit, 320 grit. Wash with soap water, clean water, then wipe with cleaner, then spray a few coats of epoxy primer. Sand that with wet 400 grit, 600grit, then 800 grit. Wash with soap water, clean water, then wipe with cleaner, then spray a few coats of primer/surfacer. Sand that with wet 400 grit, 600grit, then 800 grit. Wash with soap water, clean water, then wipe with cleaner, then spray a few coats of top coat. I drape plastic all around the walls of my garage, and open a window in the back with a box fan outside the window, pulling air out. I also open my front garage door an inch or so to get so air flow.  It is quite a bit of work, but the result is a factory orange peel:  The other cars I have painted were both metallics, with base/clear. I used Omni basecoat and clearcoat, and I will not use the cheap basecoat again. It took 5-10 coats for good coverage, and that is time and material wasted, with more chances for bugs and dirt. Decent paint is definitely worth it. The Omni clearcoat is supposed to be OK though. Doing big panels without air tools would be torture. All of the finish sanding (120grit or higher) and about half of the sanding with 80 grit is by hand, but there is a TON of time spent getting things straight and smooth with the pneumatic file board. Here is the truck:  Here is the Scout:   I have never gotten around to wet sanding the topcoat on anything, so all of those are as-shot. (My misc. project thread is here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3484624 )
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Jul 9, 2014 02:07
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drat, those are some good examples of good DIY paint. I really want to repaint my dad's car for him but I want to do it right (paint + clear coat, so I guess two stage?). I don't know if I should do it myself or have it professionally done. How much would it cost after prep, hazmat suits, tools, and materials (basically everything) to do a two stage paint job on a car and have it look good? A few thousand and a few hundred hours in labor?
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Jul 9, 2014 02:15
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Armchair Calvinist posted:How much would it cost after prep, hazmat suits, tools, and materials (basically everything) to do a two stage paint job on a car and have it look good? Skill has a whole lot to do with it. But.........do have have a garage? A paint booth? A compressor? A pain gun? You're leaving out a lot of expensive variables.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:17
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I have a garage. Let's assume I'm starting from scratch in the tools and experience department but I have lots of DIY experience and moderate artistic ability.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:18
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After I confirm what (if anything) I need to do to update the state's records on my truck's color I think I'm just going to embrace the fact that it's an old beat rear end truck and camo it. The black tractor paint I already have can just be used on trim and poo poo.Armchair Calvinist posted:I have a garage. Let's assume I'm starting from scratch in the tools and experience department but I have lots of DIY experience and moderate artistic ability. Plus side is a good compressor is handy as hell for other stuff.
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Jul 9, 2014 03:51
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Parts Kit posted:One thing to read up on is how many cubic feet per minute your spray gun will require at working pressure. It can take a pretty drat powerful compressor to keep up with a good paint gun and if it can't you'll find yourself having to wait for it to refill. Remember kids, most guns require 30psi at the gun inlet but that is measure while the triggered is being held down and the air is flowing. For my cheapo harbor freight air setup that means about 110-115psi at the compressor regulator. When I switched to the big baller Milton V-style fittings, I could turn the regulator down to 90psi but it was still struggling to keep up. Another thing to keep in mind for any paint job is that sanding sucks. People throw around big numbers of hours spent sanding, and we all need to keep in mind that 5 minutes of sanding is really, really boring.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:39
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CatBus posted:I just finished my BMW, and it turned out really well (in fact, the guy who was helping me set the trunk and hood is a retired auto paint sales rep, and he thought I had already wet sanded and buffed the panels). I'm confused, I thought single stage meant no clear, but then you mention a clear? Or am I mixing up how you painted the different vehicles? If you want single stage, no clear on the 02, what made you decide to go in that direction? It looks great by the way.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:35
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Mat_Drinks posted:I'm confused, I thought single stage meant no clear, but then you mention a clear? Or am I mixing up how you painted the different vehicles? I shot base/clear on the Scout and F150, both of which were metallic paints. I shot single stage on the BMW since it is a solid color, and that is what the paint rep suggested/gave me. It is less work to shoot, and there are fewer chances for dirt and bugs to get in the paint. Restoring a car is a ton of work. Most people don't understand what 500-1000+ hours is (3 - 6 months of 8 hour days), let alone spending it on very tedious steps- not the fun stuff like disassembly, which takes about one day. Just painting a car that is in good shape is way easier, but still very time and labor intensive. I would not touch a restoration project without a massive compressor (a straight repaint would probably be OK with a good 3hp unit with a ~60 gal tank). I have a 7.5hp IR with 200 gallons of air. Air sanders, grinders, and the sand blaster put it to work, and when you are spending literally days sanding, it is best to have the tools running at optimal pressure, without having to wait for the compressor to catch up. The actual painting is no big deal. I can usually shoot about 1400 to 2800mL of material without needing to run the compressor (depending on the fluid tip size on the gun). Painting a car is a kind of torture. Everything takes forever, there is no corner cutting, and any tiny mistake can result in huge time/money loss. You can rough in body work with air sanders, but there is an equal or greater amount of time required to finish by hand sanding. I am too OCD/cheap/poor to have someone else do it, though. Plus, I don't get any joy in driving something someone else built. Some people get more joy out of driving than building, so to each his own. One bit of advice I can offer is to shoot in the early morning, because there are fewer bugs out. If you try to paint in the late afternoon/evening, especially as it gets dark, your brightly lit paint area becomes a bug magnet. There are almost no bugs flying around in the early morning. CatBus fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 06:57
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