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Welcome earthlings to the Awful Book of the Month! In this thread, we choose one work of Resources: Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org - A database of over 17000 books available online. If you can suggest books from here, that'd be the best. SparkNotes - http://www.sparknotes.com/ - A very helpful Cliffnotes-esque site, but much better, in my opinion. If you happen to come in late and need to catch-up, you can get great character/chapter/plot summaries here.  For recommendations on future material, suggestions on how to improve the club, or just a general rant, feel free to PM me. Past Books of the Month 2011: January: John Keats, Endymion Febuary/March: Miguel Cervantes, Don Quixote April: Laurell K. Hamilton, Obsidian Butterfly May: Richard A. Knaak - Diablo #1: Legacy of Blood June: Pamela Britton - On The Move July: Raymond Chandler - The Big Sleep August: Louis L'Amour - Bendigo Shafter September: Ian Fleming - Moonraker October: Ray Bradbury - Something Wicked This Way Comes November: John Ringo - Ghost December: James Branch Cabell - Jurgen 2012: January: G.K. Chesterton - The Man Who Was Thursday Febuary: M. Somerset Maugham - Of Human Bondage March: Joseph Heller - Catch-22 April: Zack Parsons - Liminal States May: Haruki Murakami - Norwegian Wood June: James Joyce - Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man July: William S. Burroughs - Naked Lunch August: William Faulkner - The Sound & The Fury September/October: Leo Tolstoy - War & Peace November: David Mitchell - Cloud Atlas December: Kurt Vonnegut - Mother Night 2013 January: Walter M. Miller - A Canticle for Liebowitz Febuary: Alfred Bester - The Stars My Destination March: Kazuo Ishiguro - Remains Of The Day April: Don Delillo - White Noise May: Anton LeVey - The Satanic Bible June/July: Susanna Clarke - Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell August: Michael Swanwick - Stations of the Tide September: John Wyndham - Day of the Triffids October: Shirley Jackson - The Haunting of Hill House November: Iain Banks - The Wasp Factory December: Roderick Thorp - Nothing Lasts Forever 2014: January: Ursula K. LeGuin - The Left Hand of Darkness February: Mikhail Bulgalov - Master & Margarita March: Richard P. Feynman -- Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! April: James Joyce -- Dubliners May: Gabriel Garcia Marquez -- 100 Years of Solitude June: Howard Zinn -- A People's History of the United States Current: The Last of the Wine by Mary Renault This book tells the story of the Peloponnesian War and the rise and fall of Athens from the viewpoint of Alexias, a young man who grows up in wartime, who experiences his city's joys and terrors, grows into a soldier and athlete, and falls in love -- with another man. Which is, of course, perfectly natural and depicted as such, this being classical Athens; but such a frank and unashamed portrayal was revolutionary when this book was first published, in 1956, fifty-eight years ago, before Stonewall, before gay rights, before almost any notion of the modern gay rights movement. Revolutionary for its mores, enthralling and entertaining, this book is both historical fiction that seems perfectly set in its time, and a work of political revolution when it was written. Available on Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Wine-Mary-Renault/dp/0375726810 About the Author quote:Born at Dacre Lodge, 49 Plashet Road, Forest Gate, Essex (now in London), Renault was educated at St Hugh's College, Oxford, then an all-women's college, receiving an undergraduate degree in English in 1928. In 1933 she began training as a nurse at the Radcliffe Infirmary in Oxford. During her training she met Julie Mullard, a fellow nurse with whom she established a lifelong romantic relationship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Renault Discussion: This thread is for general discussion of anything you think of while reading this book. Whether you liked it or hated the book, whether you liked or hated the author personally, other books it reminds you of, that thing your dad did that one time, how Foucault's theory of discourse provides a useful lens to discuss gender relationships in the text, farts, whatever. The biggest problem we've had with the Book of the Month has been lack of participation, so just saying something that demonstrates you've actually read a page or two shows people that everyone else is doing it and encourages the next guy to jump into our nice warm lake as well. Questions & Themes: I think there are a few different angles one might approach this book. A couple possible starting points -- One angle is just as a story and a depiction of classical Athens. How accurate is it? Do you think it did a good job of bringing Athens to life? Is having Socrates in a novel weird or cool, and does she pull it off or not? What does Renault do as a writer that works well, or doesn't, and why? Another angle is to look at it through a contemporary lens. Is she just writing an idealized gay relationship? Is it overdone or something that needed to be done? (see, e.g.,http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/01/07/130107fa_fact_mendelsohn ). Is this book just holding a mirror up to modernity and showing us a flaw in our society by contrast with another, or is it doing something more, or different, or what? Is any of its fire lost now that gay rights are less controversial? Further Reading: If people like this book and just want more, or if discussion flags, we can expand into some of her other works (The King Must Die maybe?) or other historical fiction authors (Graves? O'Brian?) for a compare-and-contrast of their styles and approaches. Final Note: If you have any suggestions to change, improve or assess the book club generally, please PM or email me -- i.e., keep it out of this thread -- at least until into the last five days of the month, just so we don't derail discussion of the current book with meta-discussion. I do want to hear new ideas though, seriously, so please do actually PM or email me or whatever, or if you can't do either of those things, just hold that thought till the last five days of the month before posting it in this thread. Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoys the book! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 23:42
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About a sixth of the way through. It's been a long time since I've studied classical history so my knowledge base is rusty, I remember the major names and wars but not much of the finer details - out of curiosity, HA - what made you pick this one rather than let's say, The King Must Die which would probably have been a more accessible work for people who don't know much about Ancient Greek history?
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Jul 5, 2014 18:05
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Poutling posted:About a sixth of the way through. It's been a long time since I've studied classical history so my knowledge base is rusty, I remember the major names and wars but not much of the finer details - out of curiosity, HA - what made you pick this one rather than let's say, The King Must Die which would probably have been a more accessible work for people who don't know much about Ancient Greek history? Heh, I made the decision, asked myself the same question, and had to think about it for a *long* time. Partly, it's that I wanted to re-read this one and I've read The King Must Die pretty recently. Partly it's that The King Must Die is probably an easier book. It's a little closer to fantasy and involves, well, if not less scholarship, a different kind of scholarship that's more about mythology and anthropology and inference than it is about actual historical records and things we know for relative certain. And the converse of that -- which was probably the deciding reason -- is that this is a more thematically complex book and I think it probably has more to talk about. The jacket quote on my ancient paperback copy says quote:THE GLORY OF ANCIENT GREECE Someone -- probably one of my parents -- had underlined that last sentence. And that's really the thing. With this one there are a few levels to talk about if we want to -- both the book itself and the politics and time it talks about and is set in, as well as any analogies or comparisons we want to think about between either of those and the present day. I also think that you don't *necessarily* need to know much about ancient greek history to get this one -- she teaches what you need. You might get more from a re-read if you've read Plato, Thucydides, Xenophon, etc. The first time I read this I hadn't read any ancient greek history, and it is a pretty different book coming back to it a couple decades later, after having read Xenophon, etc. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 21:05
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I finished The Last of the Wine a few months ago and immediately grabbed all of Renault's Theseus and Alexander books for my read pile just based on the strengths of her first novel. Not to go off topic, but another book in a similar vein that I enjoyed immensely is Madeline Miller's Song of Achilles. While Song of Achilles obviously tries to convey the mythological as much as the historical, the two books have heartfelt and well-written gay relationships as a common thread. I read it shortly after The Last of the Wine and it compares favorably with it.Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is having Socrates in a novel weird or cool, and does she pull it off or not? Nevermind Socrates for a moment, let's talk about her depiction of Alcibiades, who is considered either a craven traitor or heroic savior depending on what contemporary account or historical record you read. His turn in The Last of the Wine as a mostly competent military man who is a little too in love with accolades tries to balance out and explain his two-faced reputation in history. When he faces what he believes to be the unfair censure of a fickle people, Athenian unfaithfulness is given as the reason for his defection. When he is back on the side of Athens, he sometimes puts his desire for personal glory ahead of all other things. I think the book offers an illuminating glimpse into what made him such a great ally (and conversely, such a terrible enemy) to have. You can easily see how a man who is unwilling to be anyone's dog would rack up so many enemies. While not altogether sympathetic, Renault's treatment of Alcibiades is at least understandable on a human level.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:42
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Having just finished her brilliant Alexander the Great trilogy on your recommendation (really moving and excellently characterized, I especially loved her attempt at novelizing the Diadochi drama with the final book), I'm starting The Last of the Wine now. Maybe I'll move on to the Theseus books afterwards. Loving this already: quote:"I see," he said, "that you are a judge of value, though so young. Perhaps you can tell me, then, who am getting too old to know much of such matters, what price one ought to pay for a true and honourable lover?" I wondered what he could take me for, and answered at once that one ought not to pay anything. Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 21:41
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I'm about halfway through, and I'm enjoying it though not as much as I liked the Alexander the Great trilogy. I think there's just something much more epic about that trilogy that seems missing for me in this one. These are probably not the deepest observations in the world, but: 1) I love how this book is so completely and unabashedly gay, and that it doesn't shy away from talking about pedos in Ancient Athens. 2) Alexias must be smoking hot because it seems almost everyone he meets wants to shtup him. Alexias' narration is throwing me off a bit because in my opinion, he just as intense about his descriptions of dealing with his family, step-mom and uncle, as he is about his battles with the Spartans and the Olympic games. It kind of gives this book a steady tone through and through without and great rises and falls in the action. I completely cop to it maybe being entirely viewed that way because of my current perspective and mood.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:21
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I've started reading The King Must Die (because I have it and not The Last of the Wine) and it's really good/enjoyable so far. Sadly I haven't had much time to read it and won't have internet for pretty much the rest of the month so even if discussing that book would be considered on topic, I still won't be able to contribute much. Could it be possible to decide the book of the month some time in advance so people have some time (at least a month) to find the book before it is being discussed and/or plan when they read a book more? Perhaps multiple books could be decided at once in advance as well. I've noticed that it happens quite often that I'm in the library and end up picking a book just because it has at some point been a book of the month. In the reading challenge thread I got the impression that quite a few people do the same. Perhaps if the next books were announced in advance I'd end up picking up books just because they will at some point become book of the month instead.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:00
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Well, my fear with deciding the book of the month that far in advance is that we might get a participation drop. Last month, for example, I put up a book that had been the second runner up the month before -- People's History of the United States -- and it got the lowest overall amount of discussion so far. I don't know if it was just a bad selection or what but I think part of it is that the people who had voted for it the month prior all sortof drifted away and forgot about Book Barn in the intervening month. Having everybody vote then go "ok, go read this book NOW" helps with that. I do try to nominate a lot of books that are relatively easy to find and/or free on kindle. In lieu of firm advance warning, I will say that my plan for next month's nominees is basically to repost the same poll from last month except with a book by Nadine Gordimer swapped out for Renault.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In lieu of firm advance warning, I will say that my plan for next month's nominees is basically to repost the same poll from last month except with a book by Nadine Gordimer swapped out for Renault. If you're going to do that you may as well swap out the two books which received the lowest number of votes as well, since it seems unlikely they'd receive the four/five-times increase in support needed to win.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:32
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Poutling posted:... out of curiosity, HA - what made you pick this one rather than let's say, The King Must Die which would probably have been a more accessible work for people who don't know much about Ancient Greek history? I don't really have much in-depth knowledge of Greek history (or I just don't remember it), but I can't say that hindered my enjoyment of this book. It may be nice to know who Alcibiades or other prominent figures were (who my history teachers may have glossed over), but she does a good job of making you understand who they were or the affect they had on characters in the story or in the era in which Alexias is living. I did choose to read more about various figures on my own, but if someone else chooses to assume all the characters are fictional, then I don't see an issue with that. With all the talk about homosexuality in regards to The Last of the Wine, whether it be here or in negative reviews, I felt in the end I had more a story about a boy growing up. After reading some reviews I was really nervous that I was just in a for a homosexual romance novel and I'm not much for romance novels regardless of their sexual leanings. And I can see why some readers may feel this is a romance novel, but I guess I felt there was more to Alexias' story than that. In any case, those who think this book is pushing a homosexual "agenda" should also ask themselves if they think it's promoting slavery or arranged marriages for women, since these were also part of Athenian life.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:26
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Crashbee posted:If you're going to do that you may as well swap out the two books which received the lowest number of votes as well, since it seems unlikely they'd receive the four/five-times increase in support needed to win. Yeah. Any other suggestions for books before the next poll goes up? Despite this being a relatively slow month I'd like to try female authors again, so further nominations appreciated. Maybe Iris Murdoch? Isak Dinesen? It'd be a help to point out specific books too -- I haven't read any Gordimer for example so don't know which of her books to list. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 14:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah. Any other suggestions for books before the next poll goes up? Despite this being a relatively slow month I'd like to try female authors again, so further nominations appreciated. Maybe Iris Murdoch? Isak Dinesen? It'd be a help to point out specific books too -- I haven't read any Gordimer for example so don't know which of her books to list. You could throw Joyce Carol Oates on there (The Accursed) and maybe people would like it 
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Jul 24, 2014 17:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah. Any other suggestions for books before the next poll goes up? Despite this being a relatively slow month I'd like to try female authors again, so further nominations appreciated. Maybe Iris Murdoch? Isak Dinesen? It'd be a help to point out specific books too -- I haven't read any Gordimer for example so don't know which of her books to list. I was going to nominate The Riddle of the Sands, a 1903 spy novel about the Germans invading England by Erskine Childers (the father of one of the Presidents of Ireland). Otherwise The Sea, The Sea or The Philosopher's Pupil by Iris Murdoch look good.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:51
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Riddle of the Sands is a great spy novel but yeah it's probably best for following month since male author -- maybe we can do spy novels in September?
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Jul 24, 2014 18:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Riddle of the Sands is a great spy novel but yeah it's probably best for following month since male author -- maybe we can do spy novels in September? Sounds good to me, though I mostly nominated it because the WW1 centenary is coming up in a few days.
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Jul 24, 2014 19:32
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Barrista posted:With all the talk about homosexuality in regards to The Last of the Wine, whether it be here or in negative reviews, I felt in the end I had more a story about a boy growing up. After reading some reviews I was really nervous that I was just in a for a homosexual romance novel and I'm not much for romance novels regardless of their sexual leanings. And I can see why some readers may feel this is a romance novel, but I guess I felt there was more to Alexias' story than that. In any case, those who think this book is pushing a homosexual "agenda" should also ask themselves if they think it's promoting slavery or arranged marriages for women, since these were also part of Athenian life. I'm having a really hard time seeing how this book could be construed to promote an overall "homosexual agenda", given that Lysis (and I'm guessing Alexias as well - I've got about ~70 pages left) get married, and even when they're together, they both seem interested in women. As you said, it's such a small part of the overall story; this is more about Alexias growing into a man and learning lessons about things like bravery, justice, etc. The feel of the book, where it's essentially Alexias's memoirs recounting his life, makes it really muted on the romance angle (I think the only explicit thing that happens is that they kiss early on). I suppose it can be seen as pushing an "agenda" of homosexuality as acceptable, but it doesn't define their characters to any great extent. There are significant parts where if you didn't know they were lovers, but just good friends, that likely wouldn't warrant comment. Crashbee posted:Sounds good to me, though I mostly nominated it because the WW1 centenary is coming up in a few days. Could go for both the WW1 centenary and the female author and do Tuchman's The Guns of August
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Jul 24, 2014 22:39
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We could do Secret History. It got 10 votes and someone else mentioned that they were keen to discuss it.
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Jul 25, 2014 05:48
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blue squares posted:We could do Secret History. It got 10 votes and someone else mentioned that they were keen to discuss it.
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Jul 25, 2014 06:33
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blue squares posted:We could do Secret History. It got 10 votes and someone else mentioned that they were keen to discuss it. It's also $5.99 on Kindle as of today (7/25) at Amazon.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:25
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