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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
if you use a 12 hour clock ur probably the sort of assjacket that writes programs that write local times to persistent storage

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

your avatar is excellent btw

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
don't get your hopes up, the ending of windows 3 really sucked

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fs

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

BangersInMyKnickers posted:

lol a two year lifespan was android-grade horseshit 10 years ago do not justify this

congrats on MS for their valiant efforts to take down both the NYPD and the NFL

ten years ago, you say?

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
ads in the operating system lol

tempting though since the ssds my gaming pc came with run something like 100x faster under windows 10 than they do under windows 7.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
if an app begs for a rating then rate it 1

if it demands a reason write "begs for ratings"

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

infernal machines posted:

hey guys lets run random bullshit found on the internet with full administrative rights! there is literally no way this could go wrong because i know and trust the vendors of this free utility

same

$ sudo npm install -g fotm-shitboat

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
if you want to interactively run commands then use a shell
if you want to automate a task then use a programming language

if you try to converge the two you're going to get something that is poo poo at both but then this is the same company that gave us metro

windows does need a shell that isn't a 30 year old fossilized turd like cmd.exe but one thing that shell definitely does not need is a type system

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

COACHS SPORT BAR posted:

powershell good. types good. parsing strings all day in bash is hot garbage

if you are parsing strings in bash you hosed up. why did you not write a python script.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
honestly, with the proper historical context, com and vb and vbscript were really not that bad.

i dare say they were, in fact, actually fairly good.

now, com automation was an absolute horrorshow, and it was probably the main reason why c++ com component development was the stuff of nightmares, but the funny thing is it was totally unnecessary; real vb didn't give a gently caress and could just consume a lot of com stuff directly. it's only vbscript that insisted that everything it interact with be an IDispatch, VARIANT, BSTR, or SAFEARRAY.

but hey, ms didn't want the built-in vbscript to cannibalize vb. or something.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
I'm assuming that clip was from the late 80s/early 90s, and at that time Microsoft was a well oiled technical powerhouse while Apple was circling the loving drain (at least in the late 90s) due to their objectively shittier engineering.

but i mean yeah i guess apple always had better font rendering.

Old stevie j was that one kid in the playground who loved to talk poo poo constantly whether or not there was any substance to back it up at the time.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
1995? christ. apple was a has-been, next was a wank exercise first and an actual marketable product second (although it did admittedly have a decent ui toolkit i guess? just one that wasn't very practical to run on the hardware of the day)

meanwhile the dude talks poo poo about the guys who were actually revolutionizing the world by providing functional computing technology to every single home and business, today, with actual pragmatic considerations leading the charge.

dude had a gigantic messiah complex and was so incredibly butthurt that it wasn't him making it happen lol



taste, loving lol.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

rjmccall posted:

ibm designs a pc that can be cheaply made out of commodity parts
microsoft is contracted to make a lovely os for that pc because ibm can't be bothered
microsoft negotiates the right to sell their lovely os to pc cloners because ibm completely misjudges potential for clone market
clone market takes off, microsoft rides wave, releases more versions of lovely os
microsoft starts developing windows nt, which at least is not total poo poo at the very core, but takes fifteen years to realize that maybe they should just use it instead of continuing to hack more things on top of their lovely os
microsoft continues to ride wave of happening to get in on ground floor of a slightly cheaper platform built with another company's market power
microsoft releases successive graphical versions of its lovely os, but they're still super lovely. in some ways they're shittier than ever
apple still exists and, despite a lot of bad decisions and market disadvantages, still manages to make an os that is somewhat less lovely than microsoft's
microsoft is soooo mad that apple still exists, deeply internalizes their sales pitch that apple customers are completely duped by marketing
steve returns, apple products start massively improving
microsoft spends fifteen years making lovely clones of everything apple does because microsoft is obviously just the best at everything

rofl

drat, fruit company employees just get absolutely enraged any time somebody criticizes Dear Leader Eternal President

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
microsoft, fail idiots, smelling absolutely awful:

ok, our target market in 1995 is PCs with 8MB of RAM and a 486 processor, and we have a strongly established ecosystem of third party DOS and Win16 applications. Let's make an OS to bridge us to the Win32 future that still works with every insane hack that people did with DOS-based systems and fits into a thimbleful of RAM. It'll be a really difficult engineering challenge but it has to be done, then when the time is right and computer systems are more powerful we can move everybody onto our more powerful NT platform that was designed and built by the best minds in the field.

apple, refined, discerning intellectuals:

HEY GUYS CHECK OUT THIS THING CALLED RHAPSODY

ITS GONNA BE PRETTY SWEET LOL

*eight year long reverberating farting noise*

god drat it taligent and opendoc and copland were going to be so good ...

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

rjmccall posted:

lol, which part of the brilliant microsoft puppetmaster plan was it to have win95/98/me spontaneously crash multiple times a day, completely tank the brand, and turn microsoft into a laughingstock

the legacy-crap argument makes sense until you remember that, no, gently caress that bullshit, they were actually piling up new legacy crap constantly for the entire loving decade. the terrible driver model, activex, ms java, every single lovely version of ie, the registry, terrible new ui toolkits every few years, dll hell, however many different programming environments and runtimes, stupid amounts of stuff shoved into the kernel for no good reason. hmm, i wonder why they've repeatedly tried (and failed) to rewrite the whole thing from scratch

the part where raymond chen writes an alternative memory allocator for simcity so that it can use memory after freeing it, because who's going to get blamed for crashes, simcity or windows?
or the part where win95 performed insane back-breaking contortions to allow real-mode dos drivers to work while the protected mode os was running.
or the part where the shell had a ruthlessly optimized subset of COM that could seamlessly reinitialize to the real version of COM because this saved nearly an entire megabyte of ram in the common case.
or the part where ie was in fact by far the technically superior browser compared to netscape.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031224-00/?p=41363
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20071224-00/?p=24063

microsoft in the 90s had absolutely the best software developers and the best management to realize their maximum potential. yeah there was a lot of cut throat and extremely shady business shennanigans too, but there was a rock solid core product underneath it all.

apple sent the decade jerking off to enterprise pie-in-the-sky bullshit instead, and also taking the fishmech approach of "well your software doesn't obey the guidelines clearly laid out in the technical reference manual so you're at fault" when it came to application compatibility, which swiftly relieved them of the burden of having paying customers in fairly short order. except for the ones who had an emotional rather than a pragmatic attachment to apple, which it turns out was not that many!

jobs could talk about taste all he liked. he had his shot, he blew it, nobody was impressed by him whining and being a sore loser. here's to the misfits lmao

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i'm not, you're just making poo poo up in your desperation to win the argument lmao

i'm illustrating the fundamental differences in the outlooks of the two companies at the time. apple was all about pretty ideas, microsoft was about pragmatic realities. personal computers were way too limited to have actual robust operating systems in those days, but even then the systems we did have mostly worked if you remained on the rails.

the problem is that programmers never remain on the rails, they always do dumb, awful poo poo. then they'd go out of business after a few months. or just make things like video games that had short life cycles, then laugh at you and tell you to go gently caress yourself if you asked them to fix their poo poo. well you're not legally allowed to kill these people so unfortunately you have to accommodate them. and that means doing boring, icky, lame compatibility hacks to keep the whole shitshow going. microsoft would not have survived if they had done otherwise and their management was smart enough to appreciate this; theywould not have remained a going concern if they tried to force everyone onto nt 4 back in 1995. none of their customers' poo poo would have worked!

but of course that has consequences. chiefly the adverse effects of giving drivers and applications such free rein to bypass the os and gently caress with hardware (or each other!) directly. it still worked pretty well in spite of that. winme was kind of a piece of poo poo though, yeah, that was a misstep. nobody is perfect.

now, yeah you have ios and when apple says jump an isv says how high. or at least it does if it wants to still be in business tomorrow.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
it's all good, i just felt consumed by the urge to furiously shitpost on this topic

Being all serious for a moment though, while Win95 was by no means a good operating system I do think the team behind it were a skilled and motivated bunch. There were definitely some flaws in the end product and it was certainly uh, inspired, by things that Mac OS had done previously, but I can still appreciate the cleverness that went into making it work under such tight constraints (both hardware and development time! Computing was poo poo but it was also moving at an absolutely breakneck speed that will never be matched again)

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
everything to do with videogaming is gross and weird and twitch.tv's fetid orbit is no exception

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
I want one of the new X1s Carbon but I can't really justify the > $2k price tag just yet. My current X1 probably has another year or two of life left in it once I finally get around to installing this replacement keyboard (which is to say, transplant the screen and all the PCBs into a new chassis pmuch)

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Millstone posted:

lol if you record yourself playing video games. double lol if you loving sit down and watch someone else play video games on the internet.

i mean

quite a few speed runs are entertaining to watch

you bash your head against a particular part of a game for hours on end and then you watch a dude break that poo poo over his knee and you're like oh.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
*eats entire can of chili*
*blast processing intensifies*

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

infernal machines posted:



too beautiful for this world

also i had no idea the KIN TWO existed

;)

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
lol this loving thread

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
posting to say that microsoft is still bad

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i love sniffing farts in the phantom zone

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
perhaps post 25 will allow us to escape from the bone zone

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
toot toot all aboard the shitpost express :toot:

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