When you think about it, living in a theocracy wouldn't be so bad

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > When you think about it, living in a theocracy wouldn't be so bad

«‹›3 »

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Especially a Catholic/Orthodox Christian theocracy. There would be no rich or poor, as St. Basil the Great said that "For if we all took only what was necessary to satisfy our own needs, giving the rest to those who lack, no one would be rich, no one would be poor, and no one would be in need." If we could decouple the theocratic state from far right politics, we could have a perfect ruling class. Another good point of a theocratic government would be that war would be a complete last option as killing is banned by almost all religions.

Now I know what you're thinking. What about people that do not belong to the dominant religion? Well, you would do just as previous theocracies did (the Ottoman Empire) and have non-believers pay a tax for not being a part of the main church. This system of benign neglect would not disenfranchise minority religions.

What say you? Would you like to live in a theocracy?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 22:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 06:45

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

ReV VAdAUL posted:

How would you maintain accountability if the ruling class has a mandate from heaven?

No one man is above the council that elects him. Even the Pope may be ousted by the College of Cardinals.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 22:40

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Network Pesci posted:

I think this guy's been smoking something other than Crow. I used to live in a theocracy, but we moved out of Utah when I was 12. Pretty sure it sucked hardcore.

Utah is too secular to be a true theocracy. I don't think you guys know what a theocracy is.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 23:30

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Hedera Helix posted:

Would we have to wear identifying clothing, too?

Edit: I messed up, op. You can if you want to, but I do not mind.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 23:41

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Didn't you post an almost-as-trolling thread in TBB?

Uh, I wasn't trolling in TBB, i actually feel that way about literature.

Edit: same for this topic

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 23:47

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Captain_Maclaine posted:

You know what, I'll change my position on the whole deal if Smoking Crow can guarantee another cadaver synod.

I do. Welcome to the team!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 00:40

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

Which religion? Also, since it wont be Judaism, what will be done with the Jews?

The Jews are fine with me. I prefer a lot of kosher foods to the gentile version!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 01:01

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

Cool! Theocracies have generally (read:never) been kind to jews. Good to know yours will, though!

But that doesn't answer which religion will reign supreme. Will there be a ladder match to decide?

The Ottomans were kind to the Jews and Osman declared himself caliph. Same for the Persians under Cyrus.

I personally like Orthodox Christianity but I'm slightly biased because that's my religion.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 01:09

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

VitalSigns posted:

It's gotta be the Aztec religion, because I don't want the sun to burn out

The Aztec religion is false because there haven't been sacrifices since the time of Cortes and yet the sun still burns. Unless they count war death as sacrifice, but I'm not sure what the codices say.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 01:52

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

Personally I am afraid that when Set weighs my soul against the weight of a feather I will not pass the test. Smoking Crow, how would you respond to claims that Orthodoxy weighs down the soul with sins against Ra?

The Pharaohs don't exist anymore, therefore you can't believe in their religion. Wouldn't the Egyptian gods have intervened when the Christians took them over if they existed?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 01:55

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

Let's test the existence of Yahweh with some good ol' genocide then!

Uh excuse me, when the Jews were in trouble He sent the Americans and the Russians to destroy the Nazis. It's like something straight out of the Old Testament.

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jul 9, 2014

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 02:33

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

I was actually thinking more about Christians, but you're right, WWII proves that Yahweh is a drunk absentee father who never calls and is always behind on child support

The Romans tried to eliminate Christianity and failed.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 02:58

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Crowsbeak posted:

Do we get to kill bankers? Because I will certainly support this if so.

You can't kill them but you can take all their money

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 02:59

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

Because Christianity infected them and spread like it was competing with syphilis.

What I'm saying is Romans didn't have any of the fun weapons banned by multiple international treaties.

You seem like you have a personal anger against Christianity. Have you considered making peace with the religion by taking a Catholic priest to Denny's?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:10

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Badera posted:

lol

The Vatican is posting the highest deficits it's seen in years so all that gold is legacy

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:14

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

Nah, nothing will ever beat getting high as gently caress with a pair of Jesuits and somehow ending up in a heated discussion about the nature of Thor and Tyr.

Coppers hate theology, see?

You're not Yes-anding

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:15

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

And now that they hold the Papacy, they'll finally reveal the One True God, our Lord and Savior Tzeentch!

You know every Christianity thread on these forums, unless it's protected, goes into WH40K references. I wonder why that is?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:22

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

Christianity is fanfiction and WH40K does the source material better justice.

Space marines are stupid, I prefer Warhammer: Trafalgar and stuff like that.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:29

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:

I'd be down with WHF, but loving elves man

I hate elves so much

It's kind of dumb but I like that it's one of the few games that has a real Gothic (the architectural style not the subculture) feel to it.

Still, I like my little Napoleonic soldiers.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:35

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

E-Tank posted:

And what happens if the people refuse to or can't pay the tax?

The same thing that happens in every other country when you can't pay the tax, garnishment or in some cases, prosecution for tax evasion.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:40

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Negative Entropy posted:

So you would put the poor in prison for not being able to pay the tax? Sounds pretty non-Christian.

Why would I do that? Prosecution would be for those that evade taxes. Garnishment would be for those that can't pay it. With sizable forgiveness of course.

I'm beginning to think that you guys are a bunch of Debbie downers that only see the bad things in life.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:52

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Barlow posted:

The Catholic Church has opposed the abuses of capitalism since 1891, so it's not all bad. It did support Spanish fascism though. But then it's not like the United States has a consistent history of only supporting moral regimes either.

That said I've always thought that Christianity and the state were relatively incompatible. The use of the sword by the magistrate is directly contradictory to the principles of Jesus, though it's not like anyone from Augustine onward writing about these issues cared at all. Judaism and Islam obviously don't have this issue however.

I agree with this sentiment! My dream state would be a loose confederation of small communal towns built on the model of Russian peasant communes, but without the boyar. I am always saddened when I hear tales of Patriarch Kirill sucking Putin's dick when he should be calling him out for his unfaithfulness, like St. John Chrysostom did to Eudoxia.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 03:59

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

E-Tank posted:

So the jobless would have their non-wages garnished. Gotcha.

You can't be jobless is a communist style system friend

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 04:37

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

E-Tank posted:

So the physically disabled just don't exist anymore?

No, physically disabled people are an urban myth. Jesus got rid of all of them during his travels in Judea.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 04:40

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Crowsbeak posted:

So you want distributism?

I guess? I'm not really up on my Catholic theology. In Orthodoxy we just call this "the way things should be."

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 04:43

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Tao Jones posted:

But we, who blanch with horror at the very idea of human sacrifices and cannibalism, how can we be at the same time so blind and ungrateful as not to recognize that we owe these feelings only to the law of love which watched over our cradle? Not long ago a famous nation, which had reached the peak of civilization and refinement, dared formally to suspend this law in a fit of madness of which history gives no other example: what happened? - in a flash, the mores of the Iroquois and the Algonquin; the holy laws of humanity crushed underfoot; innocent blood covering the scaffolds which covered France; men powdering and curling bloodstained heads; the very mouths of women stained with human blood.

Here is the natural man! It is not that he does not bear within him the indestructible seeds of truth and virtue: his birthrights are imprescriptible; but without divine nurture these seeds will never germinate or will yield only damaged and unwholesome fruits.

It is time to draw from the most undeniable historical facts a conclusion which is no less undeniable.

From four centuries' experience, we know that wherever the true God is not known and served by virtue of an explicit revelation, man will slaughter man and often eat him.

You joke, but de Maistre is really important in both socialist and sociological thinking.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 05:06

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Sorry for taking so long! I had an early class today and I wanted to take the right amount of effort into my replies.

VitalSigns posted:

Muslims crushed Orthodox Rome and conquered Constantinople, so Islam obviously has the Lord's favor. When are you converting?

Uh, the glorious Third Rome, Moscow is still in existence, sir.

sandorius posted:

What's to stop people from converting to the 'dominant religion' for the tax benefits? Do you really want people in your church for purely mercenary purposes? What happens when people start complaining about how their religious taxes are being spent? You are seriously completely fine with making other people tithe to your church while you sit back and enjoy the tax breaks?

This is why almost all of the Muslims converted in the beginning

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

When I think "Successful country where I would like to live" what immediately comes to mind is the loving Ottoman Empire. Great job, OP.

For most of its existence, the Ottoman Empire was the best run state in Europe. It wasn't until nationalism came about that it weakened.

fatherboxx posted:

Somehow everyone has skipped over this gem in the OP.

Everyone knows it's true, op

Who What Now posted:

Yeah, gently caress the poor!

Are you saying that all Muslims are poor? I don't think that is true.

Who What Now posted:

I'm sorry for misrepresenting the theocracy that doesn't exist.

I forgive you, pony friend!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 16:36

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

They'll be poor once they are taxed outrageously and segregated into ghettos on order of the theocratic government.

Why would they do that? Anyone can live anywhere they want, and it would be one more tax than the average person. I think you're being pessimistic.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 16:53

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Miltank posted:

Atheist theocracies sound pretty lovely.

Those are called liberal states, my friend

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 16:57

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

VitalSigns posted:

That's some mad goalpost shifting. How many Romes do you have to go through before you're willing to consign Orthodoxy to the same dustbin to which you consign all other religions without a powerful enough army? Will you get all the way down to Glorious Eighty-Seventh Rome in Tweebuffelsmeteenskootmorsdoodgeskietfontein in Holy Transvaal, South Africa?

But seriously, does it matter to you which religion the theocracy is? It seems like it doesn't, since you judge a religions worthiness by who had the biggest army, then I guess whatever religion we pick for our government will be the One True Religion by definition since it will have the power to oppress all the rest of them.

Don't blame me for Russia's title, blame the tsar for deliberately marrying into the Byzantine dynasty to call itself the New Rome.

I want it to be Christian, because that's the one I like the best; most religions are ok, though

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jul 9, 2014

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:10

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Alexzandvar posted:

The problem with this is you would literally need a God Emperor or else pretty much no one would be okay with the government. Religious leaders aren't actually the voice of god OP.

Uh, the Pope is when speaking ex cathedra, op

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:15

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

McAlister posted:

At turning women into chattel?

I'll keep my reproductive freedom and access to education, thanks.

The Catholic Church doesn't restrict women's access to education though? Also, I think being a chattel slave has more to do with lack of more important freedoms than reproductive rights and education.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:22

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Alexzandvar posted:

Actually it does, since an unwanted pregnancy is a very easy way to pressure women to get get married or do any number of things. This whole idea of a theocracy just makes no sense outside of the third world since Western Europe and even America is becoming more and more non religious over time.

lol

You can say what you want about the death of religion, but people were saying in the 60s that by the time of 2000, religion would be dead. America becomes more and less religious in waves called "Awakenings." We just got done with the Fourth one. The idea of God is a strong one that has lasted the test of time and isn't dying out anytime soon.

Also, so what you are saying is that the majority of white men in the original 13 colonies were chattel since they didn't have contraceptives or education?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:33

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

You people do know that your life doesn't end when you have a kid right

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:46

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

Christians will never make lasting positive social change either. Nor will Muslims, or Hindus, Sikhs, Jaines, Buddhist, or agnostics. Lasting change is an impossibility, for all of man's works will ultimately be for nought. All that will be left is a dead world made putrid by man's touch, and even that will inevitably be consumed in the fires of a dying star. Everything you work for an believe in will be eradicated as if it never was, and the universe will continue it's slow and inexorable march towards heat death.

So party it up now, woooo!

I don't think that is true, op

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:50

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

I don't think you know what OP means.

Also Im sorry you don't know how stars work but it's a fact that the earth will perish as the sun expands.

It means original poster and you were the one who posted the thing I quoted

I have posted in GBS, so my forums IQ is pretty high

Actually, since it's a logical fallacy to believe that things in the past will be like things in the future, we cannot know that the Sun will expand. The Sun can do whatever it wants, as long as it keeps being happy!

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 9, 2014

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:53

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Alexzandvar posted:

Religion is just a way of explaining how the world works and why things happen. Since humanity used to be pretty loving stupid and lived in caves we came up with the idea of gods because it was a easy way to explain everything that happened ever. Now we understand our environment and our existence and how it came to be, so people don't need religion anymore to explain why poo poo happens. People can get through their everyday life because they are sure in reality, we just don't take feeling from religion anymore.

That was Sigmund Freud's theory for the creation of religion, but today, no one in the fields of anthropology or sociology of religion uses that theory. It's much more existential and social cohesion based. If that were so, then people would be getting less religious all over the world, when it's just Western Europe and the United States.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 18:02

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

VitalSigns posted:

I love how the OP started with "A Christian Theocracy would be just peachy because it would be full communism and there would be no war, just like Jesus commanded", and then people start asking about things like women's rights and it's all "Well of course women would be held as property with no political enfranchisement, access to education, economic freedom, or agency over their own bodies, it's all right there in First Corinthians. But for the male 51% of the population it'd be a paradise."

I'm almost afraid to ask what will happen to gays in this Christopia? Do I get to pay the jizyah and go about my life? Cuz if we're basing this on Russian Orthodox, I have a sinking feeling that I'm gonna end up getting stoned to death.

Oh, nothing. We are taught to love out brothers and sisters, so probably nothing will happen to them

You can be religious and gay, you know

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 18:08

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

VitalSigns posted:

You can be religious and get an abortion too, but you're still planning to ban those.

Can I testify against a Christian in court?

You can if you want to. I'm not stopping you.

Who What Now posted:

What if the gay person isn't your sibling? Then it's to the gulags!

Gulags are an atheist invention, good sir

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 18:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 06:45

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Who What Now posted:

I think you'll find that gulags come from your beloved Moscow.

Yes, and a large majority of the residents were religious dissidents. Communism was a pretty bad period in Russian history, but the church has prevailed as it always has.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 18:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > When you think about it, living in a theocracy wouldn't be so bad

«‹›3 »