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I saw another little glimpse of hell tonight; thankfully the details of it are rapidly receding from my mind and falling back into the subconscious. Due to this my little dream (or rather nightmare) journal will grow increasingly distorted and novelized by the second, but this is something worth recording. This will also destroy me if it ever gets into any psychological evaluations, but I've made my peace with the fact that the NSA can end me at any time. The sequence of events I am about to describe can best be categorized as an expansion of the infinite terror loop I may have described to you earlier, but much more mundane and much more perception shattering. Right now I’m just going to jog down the remains of what I can remember; later I’ll search myth and theories on the mind to give me some context of its twisted meaning. The worst part about it was that this “event” was the longest loving dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a …dream you’ll ever loving meet, which means I have already lost crucial details on how the creeping madness could have reached such horrible heights. I have already lost most of the first dream sequence; I can only remember snippets of something apocalyptic and ensnaring, like being swallowed by the icky and constricting black maw of hell. It must have gone on for awhile, for when I “awoke” I had already fallen into a panic. For the first time in more than a decade I truly and utterly feared the dark, and what seemed to leer at me in the blackness. "JAAMESjamessJAmesJamesJAMES!" Schizophrenic whispers and pretenses floated in and out of my mind, the only thought i remember clearly being that a hidden fiend was lurking in the night. Eventually I gathered up the courage to go for the light switch in hopes of dispelling the unseen presence, humming nursery rhymes and Jesus Loves me all the while in an attempt to ignore how its shadow hovered a few feet over me as if in wait to bore down and snatch me in its undoubtedly sharpened claws. After cowering through the greatest flinch of all time I hit the switch: nothing happened. I tried again; the light was dead. Trying not to freak out, I opened the bedroom door and hobbled out of the room. I tried light after light but nothing worked. Even my night vision was failing me, and it became increasingly difficult just to open my eyes. A gangrenous puss had started to encrust my face, and my panic began to mount. As is expected from a man in the middle of his death throes, I cried out for my mother, who was conveniently lounging in the darkness of my living room.( Although now that I think about it I was never able to actually see her and I should have had no real reason to label whatever it was as my mom) I had become a child again- my body and mind had reverted to approximately around the time when I first got pinkeye. I begged my "mother" to help get rid me of the gunk, but either she was another ghoul come to torment me or I had also gone deaf because I couldn't hear her response. The end of this dream sequence is muddled, but I believe that it just bled out as faint flashes and whispers of pandemonium surrounded the home. The third sequence was just a mindfuck. At that point was lucid dreaming, and aware that I was trapped in a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from. Sometimes I would be crawling in the darkness, other times would involve me fighting with advanced alzheimers and a dark dissolution of the self while my body remained chained to the bed that my mind was lost in. You know how sometimes you dream that you wake up and walk around the house? This happened to me again, and again, and again. At a certain point I assumed that I had tapped into what the mystics call 'astral projection', meaning that my soul got to wander but my body didn't. Add to this my vision continuing to go in and out of focus, the continued breakdown in my cognitive condition as a malevolent and primal figure just out of eyesight (and well within during my periods of blindness) continued to loiter and, worst of all, the utter repetition of it all and you can see why I lost it. Before things got real bad a piece of myself started to enjoy the trippiness.My predicament may have been ghoulish, but a part of me honestly preferred its novelty to the monotony of my dead end existence. Waiting tables and getting fat always seemed like just another hell that kept people from looking for salvation by pulling its punches five times out of ten. What came next made me realize how wrong I was. The final dream within dream within a...was just voices: terrible, stupid voices. They seem to have started in the midst of me crawling through the hallway, but they only picked up when I was back to being trapped in my dreaming body. I seemed to have lost most of what was said, but I can vaguely remember flashes of cartoon characters like Bullwinkle, Princess Bubblegum and the Iceking, possible manifestations of whimsy, logic and the sweet escape of dementedness. The pivotal scene involved the voice of the Alchemist from The Venture Brothers, Dana Snyder. (come to think of it he was ranting like Master Shake, but more coherently) At first his levity was a welcome break from my paralyzed dread, but the voice soon started to tell me to do worse and worse things, and as I sat in my motionless body I began to dream these things into consciousness. At first I thought the voice was offering me a way to buy my way to freedom, but now I think It was just having fun saying things like “wouldn’t it be great if you killed everyone you’ve loved in such and such way ha ha”. Me actively doing these things appeared in a dream bubble right over my head, and for one moment I actually enjoyed being the one who dished out torment.That moment passed. I realized that this was the gate of hell and made one last desperate attempt to break free. I woke up for what seemed like the hundredth time, and it's taking awhile for me to accept that I'm finally awake. A little part of me still believes I’m asleep and have just been granted a few moments to enjoy turning on every room-light possible. gently caress Sleep. gently caress sleep with a stick. You ever wonder how it feels to be stuck with Freddy Kruger? It feels like this times three. Having an adversary you can at least pin a location on gives you the benefit of knowing which way to run. Not this. I'm still afraid that this isn't over, or worse, that it'll happen until the end of time. I saw another little glimpse of hell tonight. Thankfully, the details of it are rapidly receding from my mind and falling back into the subconscious. Ps. To keep useless fuckers off my back, I'll clarify that this is a edited crosspost originally from pofo then spacebattlers. I make no money off of this, so I don't get how you people keep throwing "self plagiarism" at me. Are you saying that spacebattles owns this short story? Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 03:11
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Jul 23, 2014 03:33
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
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Jul 23, 2014 03:49
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[/quote] What the gently caress is the problem now? I can't monetize this and people already know this is a edited crosspost, so I don't see the problem. But to avoid your bullshit, I'll state what doesn't need repeating.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:27
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What's the problem? Well, there's a couple, any one of which alone would discourage me from critting this piece. 1. Your writing is astonishingly bad. You need to go back to the very, very basics, as many people have already told you here. Read a lot of good fiction (and if you already are, work on internalizing it better). Then write a lucid story with good basic mechanics. 2. You've proven to have no interest in taking advice. You've not only ignored good advice from a number of CC regulars, you've picked fights with them for doing you the courtesy of offering it. I don't want to get shouted at in return for doing something nice. 3. You're posting the same story over and over in various places, expecting a different response, when what you need to do is move on from it and write something better. You're not learning anything from what you're doing. 4. Your rudeness, combativeness, and generally unpleasant attitude have turned me off of the idea of doing favors for you.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:20
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God Over Djinn posted:What's the problem? Well, there's a couple, any one of which alone would discourage me from critting this piece. Oh come on, I never shouted at you, I never got this story reviewed and I never lost my poo poo over a critique. I occasionally have questions, but I never say, "you no talent by the book loser are beneath me". I do get pissed when I get probated for bullshit issues.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:31
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Sithsaber posted:I never shouted at you Sithsaber posted:What the gently caress is the problem now? ... to avoid your bullshit, I'll state what doesn't need repeating.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:34
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And what was I quoting? I was quoting something that got me kicked two days ago. It seemed like you weretrying to get me kicked.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:37
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Sithsaber posted:I do get pissed when I get probated for bullshit issues. Hint: if you actually get probated, it's because a mod decided it wasn't a bullshit issue. Sithsaber posted:And what was I quoting? I was quoting something that got me kicked two days ago. It seemed like you weretrying to get me kicked. Quoting something that got you kicked two days ago doesn't seem like the best way to avoid getting kicked again. Also I don't see how it indicates that GodOverDjinn is trying to get you kicked? Sithsaber posted:I never lost my poo poo over a critique. Sithsaber posted:So do you get a hard on when you're freaking out like this? The other guy handled the issue with tact and without foaming at the mouth, which is obviously something you can do. You actually typed a paragraph complaining about me complaining about my shity phone, which is insane. Stop acting like a ding-dong. Here's some feedback on your story: It isn't very good. More detailed feedback below. --------- I saw another little glimpse of hell tonight this reads like some poo poo that is supposed to be "edgy" but is actually incredibly dull and gives the reader no sense of the character or reason to stay interested. When I read an opening sentence like this, I assume it's gonna be some schizophrenic dream journal poo poo that I don't want to read. Also, using observational phrases such as "I saw" usually always weaken prose; thankfully the details of it are rapidly receding from my mind and falling back into the subconscious. This sentence is wordy, but the words are pretty boring, "receding from my mind" and "falling back into the subconscious" pretty much says the same thing twice without really adding anything. I still don't care about what's going on and I'm still not curious about what will happen next. Due to this technicall "this" should always be followed by an actual noun. In casual prose, it's not that important because people skip it in conversation all the time. But there should at least be a comma after "this" or the phrasing is confusing and looks like a typo. Also, "Due to X" almost never reads right in fiction. It sounds too much like a phrase from a freshman history paper. my little dream (or rather nightmare) LOOK HOW CLEVER I AM HA HA HA. Also hey,  dreams, what a surprise. journal will grow increasingly distorted and novelized by the second how the gently caress will recording an actual dream make a dream journal increasingly distorted and novelized? Also that is a weird thing to say about a dream journal. What does it even mean? and who cares?, but this is something worth recording unpaired "this" in this clause (see how that works) reads fine. On the other hand, this clause is a classic "tell" it tells the reader that this thing is worth recording instead of showing us that it is important. This kind of tell can work in the first-person diary style that you are using, but on top of the other issues, I don't think it adds enough to justify. Also this sentence is really long. . This will also destroy me if it ever gets into any psychological evaluations, but I've made my peace with the fact that the NSA can end me at any time. First whiff of crazy narrator detected. Lots of extraneous words that aren't pulling enough weight to justify inclusion: also, ever, any. I don't see what psychological profiles have to do with the NSA, since they do not just kill crazy people. Are you trying to show his paranoia? If so, it's not working.The sequence of events I am about to describe This is really close to the opening line of every episode of Dragnet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Hp7D4SQ7A can best be categorized as an expansion of the infinite terror loop Pretentiousness overload right here. "Can best be described" is needless fluff. "An expansion of" is ridiculous. Also how can an infinite loop be extended? And wtf is an infinite terror loop anyway? Also who IS this narrator and wtf is he talking about. He's just been talking about what he is about to (maybe?) talk about for so long. I am bored and don't care. I may have described to you earlier this is what we call a "dear reader," named after the common use of breaking the fourth wall in 19th/early 20th century writing (link to article: https://gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/24662/1/gupea_2077_24662_1.pdf). It usually distances the reader because it breaks the world of the narrator to explicitly address the existence of reader and writer. Again, this is something that can work in the diary style, because many people do address their diaries in this way. However, in this case, I can't help thinking "YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ME ANYTHING YET, UGH", but much more mundane and much more perception shattering more telling me about what you might tell me at some point, but I am less and less sure that I will ever find out. Also "perception shattering" is awkward as an awkward thing and as meaningless in this context as a very meaningless thing. Right now I’m just going to jog JOT down the remains of what I can remember; later I’ll search myth myths? unless you mean the "only story" thing, but I'm not buying that and theories on the mind to give me some context of its twisted meaning.oh my god just tell me already. Or don't I'm already not reading anymore by this point. "Later I'll do some research and write a bunch more words about this thing that I still haven't bothered to tell you. Also all you know about me is that I've written all these boring, pretentious, useless words that give you no idea of character, setting, or plot. Still, I expect this to be absolutely thrilling to you, the minute and unedited thoughts of my mundane brain. This, this meandering record of the minutia of my unique and fascinating brain is the essence of art, finally bringing together gritty realism and an overly formal, scholastic tone in a way that has never been done before! The worst part about it was that this “event” THIS loving UNKNOWN EVENT THAT I STILL DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT was passive voice the longest loving obscenity is a jarring clash with the formal tone of the rest of the work, and not in a good way. dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a …this ellipse is stupid, adds nothing, and makes me roll my eyes so hard i am in danger of tipping my chair overdream you’ll me? ever loving meet I will never meet this dream, and also you will never tell me about it apparently, which means I have already lost crucial details on how the creeping madness could have reached such horrible heights.okay thanks for telling me how horrible this is going to be, I totally didn't get that from the earlier sentence which called it "an infinite loop of terror." I thought it might be a good dream. Also, you need to watch your alliteration. There's too much of it and it jumps off the page too much.) I have already lost most of the first dream sequence you pretty much just told us this exact thing with the whole "already lost the crucial details" sentence. oh hey, that was the last sentence.; I can only remember snippets of something apocalyptic and ensnaring, like being swallowed by the icky and constricting black maw of hell. the like here is ambiguous. Is the "being swallowed by the icky, etc." a simile describing the experience of ensnaring by comparing it to what it would be like to be swallowed by the black maw of hell? or is that an example of one of the things you remember about it? Icky is how a child might describe snot, it doesn't agree with the tone of a black maw of hell. It must have gone on for awhile this is a wishy-washy waste of words, unspecific and adds practically nothing, for when for when is like due to, it sounds ridiculous I “awoke” I had already you use the word already a lot. It's generally a throw-away word. It adds hardly anything. "by the time I awoke I had fallen into a panic" is better fallen into a panic. fallen into a panic is also an extremely bland way of describing panic For the first time in more than a decade I truly and utterly feared the dark, and what seemed to leer at me in the blackness.too passive, too bland "JAAMESjamessJAmesJamesJAMES!" Schizophrenic ding ding ding, that's schizophrenia also a terrible descriptive word, show us that the whispers are "schizophrenic" don't tell us. whispers and pretenses pretense is a really bizarre word to use here, it feels entirely out of place and it is not clear what you mean. Do you mean false claims? lies? whispers are a sound, lies are content. They don't pair well like that. Also, hey, I might know this guy's name now, but nothing at him and I hella don't care, goodbye. floated in and out of my mind, everything so far has also floated out of my mind and I refuse to read/comment any further. And I don't give a poo poo if you think the rest of it is some loving masterpiece that I need to read to comprehend the beginning, because I am NOT going to read it, and reading it really WON'T fix all the problems in this intro. The issues I've pointed out so far should be enough to for you to chew on and improve next time around
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Jul 23, 2014 08:13
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Hint: if you actually get probated, it's because a mod decided it wasn't a bullshit issue. 1. I respect your right to miss out on the crux of the work. 2. Some of your recommendations (awoke etc) change what's going on in ways you don't really comprehend. (I wrote "awoke" because the character didn't really wake up.) 3. The NSA is evil I say! 4. The issue I had with the quote was that it seemed like a preamble to a report for self plagiary spam. 5. This poo poo is wordy, but that's how it's supposed to be. I can't force you to like themes or styles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 23, 2014 14:07
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Sithsaber posted:1. I respect your right to miss out on the crux of the work. you're a loving rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:11
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Sithsaber your story is very good and from your responses you're a writer who obviously knows what he's doing. Definitely send your stories to some professional publications and be sure to forward us their answers.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:11
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No one likes this piece. No one "gets" it. That's your problem, not ours. You posted another piece in this forum (Tales of Ominy) that has issues, but it also has a protagonist with a reasonable motivation who does things to get what he wants, and then encounters obstacles. That's a step in the right direction. Make more stuff like that.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:24
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If every single person who has given you feedback says the same things, the problem is you. I told DrK not to bother because you never take advice and haha this is how she's rewarded for trying to be helpful. Why are you here? It's obviously not to improve when you don't listen to a thing anyone says, and it should be clear by now that you're not going to get gushing praise for your genius, because your writing sucks and your attitude is worse. If you don't believe me, though, listen to Entenzahn. That'll give you exactly the response you're looking for. Alpacalips Now posted:No one likes this piece. No one "gets" it. That's your problem, not ours. That would require him to write something new, though, and that's asking for far too much when he can just keep copy/pasting old stuff with a few wording tweaks.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:47
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crabrock posted:you're a loving rear end in a top hat. gently caress you? Come on, I can post different things at different times and unload old poo poo when I feel like it. I'm holding back on the new stuff because it has to be perfect or it'll be completely ignored or called super poo poo. The real problem with alot of my shorts is that they skim over building agency and don't properly plant the seeds for the resolution. I'm going to consult the story circle from now on, even if I still think that not all stories need to be by the book. Ps. Knock off the hyperbole. The first responses were the same as the ones that got me kicked, and that was what I thought they were trying to do.(kick me) As for my response to drk, there's nothing bad about it. Maybe you guys need a thicker skin: I disagreed with a few of her recommendations because they would change what was happening in the story in a major way.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:46
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Sithsaber posted:gently caress you? Come on, I can post different things at different times and unload old poo poo when I feel like it. I'm holding back on the new stuff because it has to be perfect or it'll be completely ignored or called super poo poo. The real problem with alot of my shorts is that they skim over building agency and don't properly plant the seeds for the resolution. I'm going to consult the story circle from now on, even if I still think that not all stories need to be by the book. no dude, i don't think you understand: you're an rear end in a top hat. It doesn't matter what your reasoning for responding is, you're an rear end in a top hat. Somebody took time to give you feedback, and you were exceedingly rude. You're a petulant narcissist that can't stand to hear he needs improvement. You're an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:50
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crabrock posted:no dude, i don't think you understand: you're an rear end in a top hat. It doesn't matter what your reasoning for responding is, you're an rear end in a top hat. Somebody took time to give you feedback, and you were exceedingly rude. You're a petulant narcissist that can't stand to hear he needs improvement. I'm sensing some bullshit. Any yelling was over my double probation and the well attested examples of people reporting me to the point where mods tell them to knock it off. If I'm an rear end in a top hat for saying, "thanks for that but certain lines can't be edited that way because that would negate the next 500 words" then I guess I am a rear end in a top hat. If you really think that I should shut up until I listen to you and post new poo poo, maybe you should look at the 1900 word brawl piece you people ignored last week. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3652783
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Jul 23, 2014 18:02
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Sithsaber posted:you people reporting you for racism
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Jul 23, 2014 18:06
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Sithsaber posted:I'm sensing some bullshit. Any yelling was over my double probation and the well attested examples of people reporting me to the point where mods tell them to knock it off. If I'm an rear end in a top hat for saying, "thanks for that but certain lines can't be edited that way because that would negate the next 500 words" then I guess I am a rear end in a top hat. I deeply and sincerely regret telling people in that one thread in TV/IV to stop reporting you for "being insane," as I see now they were right all along.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:10
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You're an rear end in a top hat because you either ignore criticism and honest advice outright or refuse to take it with varying excuses, and whine about people being mean to you and not liking your writing, focusing on tone over content. You aren't getting feedback (except for DrK's, which you ignored/disregarded and basically insulted her for, so lol) because it is a waste of time for anyone to try. You are an rear end in a top hat because serious attempts to help you get thrown in our faces. Yet you won't shut up, more interested in playing the victim than the sane option of not being an rear end in a top hat and taking advice and becoming a productive member of CC instead of the annoying fly that won't land long enough to swat. Echo Cian posted:Why are you here?
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Jul 23, 2014 18:19
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Hello again! Sorry I've been a little rough on you, Sithsaber. I honestly just hate seeing people get dogpiled, but you are like the katamari of dog piles. You don't so much get piled on as you find an already existing mound of dogs and crawl under them. I just did a metaphor. Was it okay? Anyway. My post in Thunderdome was an attempt to steer things away from "lets all pile on Sithsaber," but you've made it basically impossible lately so here just have this crit. My problem with this story is threefold: 1. It's a really elaborate version of "dude, I gotta tell you about this dream I had last night." Complete with dreamy non sequiturs like him suddenly being a kid, his mom suddenly being there, his flashback to the time he got pinkeye, the list of cartoon characters near the end. Sure, it's random and dreamy, but it's also really...normal? I guess that's the right word. When you write about dreams, and especially when you delve into the potential horror of dreams (your mind totally open, your body paralyzed, your ability to distinguish reality gone), you need to really consider all of the possibilities. Don't just go for the cliches. I expected this guy to be naked at an exam with all his teeth falling out, basically. Ask anyone around here, I love writing about dreams, being stuck in dreams, dreams encroaching on reality, and mind-shattering scary dream stuff. My favorite thing about utilizing a dream as a plot element is that you can do anything. What you have here is just kind of cliche archetypal HELLO READER YOU ARE READING A SCARY POSSIBLY SUPERNATURAL DREAM cues. Buuuut you'll probably say that it NEEDS to be vague and mundane for reasons that you are keeping secret from me, the reader right now. So moving on... 2. The voice of the story oscillates between Lovecraftian and Internet so jarringly it was all I could think about on the first read. That makes it feel creepy pasta-ish. I have no idea if it's supposed to be an affectation of the narrator or if just an inconsistency in your writing voice. Either way, it's not really working. It makes it feel even more like someone telling me about their totally insane dream they had last night. Have you read any Clive Barker? I think he does a good job of keeping a modern voice while delving into the kind of horror I think you're trying to write here. 3. What is the point of this? From the thread title, I gather this is a small part of a longer work. But as a stand alone piece, it's just....scary vague things happen, a guy doesn't want to sleep anymore. That's what I walk away with. Is this part of a complete plot arc? Anyway, I hope that helps. I think what you have here is something you need to develop more. Please stay out from under the dogs.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:40
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Sithsaber posted:If I'm an rear end in a top hat for saying, "thanks for that but certain lines can't be edited that way because that would negate the next 500 words" then I guess I am a rear end in a top hat. This isn't how feedback / editing works, though. Sometimes editing means changing up 500 words. Sometimes it means changing thousands. Sometimes it means scrapping a whole story because it just doesn't work. That's the point of editing. It's about overhauling the piece, cutting out the fat, changing things that need to be changed. It's not just adding one or two extra lines and looking up a few synonyms. The reason people are frustrated is that you are ignoring the most basic advice. It's not even a case of people not liking your style, or nitpicking grammar / punctuation errors (though there are plenty). You are giving us writing that lacks the most basic elements necessary to even qualify as a story. This piece is basically a dream journal. Ask yourself these questions, and answer them honestly: What are your character's motivations? What does he want? What is the conflict in this story? (Hint: "having a scary dream" isn't a conflict.) Once you've established your character's motivation, this should be the stuff that is in his way. Your narrator needs a clear goal, and he needs something that is stopping, or trying to stop, him from achieving that goal. What are the stakes? I mentioned this in your other story, but this is just a dream where nothing happens. It's a bunch of images with no substance. What risks are there for your narrator? What does he stand to lose? Using only words that you have actually included within this piece, can you describe your character? It looks to me like "schizophrenic" is the only attribute I can pin to this dude. That's not a character, it's a cardboard cut-out. If you can't answer all those questions within the context of your piece (Note that this does not mean "what can I explain to you afterward that I didn't actually mention whatsoever in the writing I submitted"), then you don't actually have a story. You've been given tons of good advice at this point, more than a lot of new writers get, but you haven't applied any of it. That is why people are confused as to why you are even asking for criticism any more. What are you looking for, exactly? What is the point in asking people to critique your writing if you ignore 100% of the feedback?
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Jul 23, 2014 18:41
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I read through the whole story, and for the most part, the problems I see here are the same as the problems from stories you've posted earlier. Mainly, your problems are overwriting and telling instead of showing. At no point in that whole story did you really try to evoke an image or a feeling or emotion. You laid down concepts, but you never let us experience any of those concepts, so the whole thing feels flat and doesn't resonate with us on an emotional or intellectual level. And then, on top of that, your sentence structure and word choice often obscures just what you're trying to say to the point that people are just going to give up. My advice for you is the same as the advice I've given you in other instances. You need to focus on writing a good, satisfying, simple story. These high-concept things are fine, but before you can astound us with the wonders of the dreamscape, you need to be able to tell us a story. That's the way it is with everything--you need to get a solid grasp of the basics first, before you can get into the more challenging elements. Does that mean you have to write boring stories? No, absolutely the opposite: You need to know how to make a simple story interesting. You need to know how to write clearly--which doesn't mean dumbing down your writing, just learning how to write so others can read. That 'others' is really important too. Writing is a very personal thing, but you have to keep in mind that when you're writing a piece that others are going to read, the way you understand the piece isn't as important as the way they understand it. If other people find your writing confusing, or boring, that's not their fault as readers. That's your fault as a writer for not being clear enough or interesting enough. Again, this doesn't mean dumbing down. This means conveying ideas in a clear and compelling way. When you post a story here, you get the benefit of people who want to help you who are willing to read it. Out in the world, no one is required to read your stuff. There's nothing making anyone read except their interest in what's written, so that's your goal--to make what you wrote interesting to other people.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:56
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Sithsaber posted:1. I respect your right to miss out on the crux of the work. Hi, we already know you are really pretentious and self-important, you don't need to point it out so explicitly. 1. "miss out" on the crux of the work.  Dude, I am not missing out. That is clear to everyone but you. Did you stop reading my crit, because I actually addressed this potential response at the end. I will repeat it here for your convenience: I don't give a poo poo if you think the rest of it is some loving masterpiece that I need to read to comprehend the beginning, because I am NOT going to read it, and reading it really WON'T fix all the problems in this intro. The issues I've pointed out so far should be enough to for you to chew on and improve next time around.2. You totally missed the crux of the "awoke" recommendation. It wasn't to take out the quotes, which I actually just left out unintentionally because I was focusing on more serious flaws. Suggesting that my recommendations are based on my lack of comprehension is pretty loving insulting. I think you are aware of that. Also, see what I just restated above. 3. It's obvious you bring a lot of personal opinions into your writing, whether they fit into the story or make sense. 4. You get probated for what you post, not what other people post. Quit suggesting otherwise, geez louise. 5. This poo poo is wordy and I don't care if that's how it is supposed to be because it isn't done well. Please don't next try to explain it as "bad writing is characterization," because bad writing is still just bad writing. Faulkner (wordy as all get out dude, by the way) wrote 1/4 of a book from the perspective of a cognitively disabled man, and managed to nail that characterization without bad writing. You use extraneous words that don't add anything. A successful wordy style is not built on including three uses of the word "already" within as many paragraphs. You repeatedly use unnecesarily wordy constructions for sentences that could be stated more directly (glimpse of, details of, sequence of, expansion of, remains of, context of, most of, snippets of, maw of, may have, I have already, could have, I have already, must have, something worth, some context, something apocalyptic). Yes, you could make the same critique of my critiquing posts, but the difference is that I am not not writing "prose." Your word choice is sloppy and smacks of someone putting words on the page without truly thinking about them, and then calling it "style." You don't know anything about my preferences for themes or styles, and are instead concluding that my dislike of your work has to do with my general opinions (or "lack of comprehension"  ) instead of problems within your work. I am one of the more tolerant posters in this forum when it comes to writing, and willing to put in quite a bit of effort critiquing posts regardless of my preferences for theme or style. Additionally, feedback on theme and style is still valid feedback. Especially when it's about how the theme is presented and where the style has problems. You said in fiction advice that you respond to critiques because you want a little give and take and like to learn from active communication, but it is apparent that what you really want to do is talk down to people and explain away any negative responses. p.s. have you even read Dostoyevsky's Notes from Underground?
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Jul 23, 2014 19:26
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Have you read "thus spoke Zarathustra?" #2 seems to be a misunderstanding. You say as much in the prior post. #1 was meant to be nothing more than "skip what you want to skip."
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Jul 23, 2014 19:40
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The only way you should respond to a crit is "thank you." Everything else is wrong. You're doing a lot of explaining, and no writing. Read what people say, agree with it or disagree with it, and try it again on another piece. If you have to explain anything to somebody who just gave you a critique, then you're doing it wrong. Seriously, just try NOT responding to a crit. You lose nothing and gain valuable feedback. If you think somebody didn't understand it, then go write something that is more clear.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:44
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crabrock posted:The only way you should respond to a crit is "thank you." Seriously? I just misunderstood your critique and would have written it off for the supposed error had you not elaborated. Give and take helps.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:53
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Sithsaber posted:Seriously? I just misunderstood your critique and would have written it off for the supposed error had you not elaborated. Give and take helps. asking questions/further elaboration is fine, but that's not "responding to" the crit. I'm talking about how you're responding to Dr. K's.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:01
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Sithsaber posted:Seriously? I just misunderstood your critique and would have written it off for the supposed error had you not elaborated. Give and take helps. Here's another repeat for your convenience: You said in fiction advice that you respond to critiques because you want a little give and take and like to learn from active communication, but it is apparent that what you really want to do is talk down to people and explain away any negative responses. Your only response has been to blame negative reactions to a comprehension error on the part of the reader, taking absolutely no responsibility for your duty of communication as a writer. When you aren't not-very-subtly suggesting that your vast intellect is just too superior for us to understand, you ignore what people are saying. Why should anyone waste their time on you? Goodbye. oh, wait, p.s. don't obliquely compare your poo poo to Nietzsche. Goodbye for real now.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:06
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crabrock posted:asking questions/further elaboration is fine, but that's not "responding to" the crit. I'm talking about how you're responding to Dr. K's. I asked about something in his critique that confused me.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:07
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Sithsaber posted:Give and take helps. It doesn't when give and take means you never seriously consider advice and instead use the critique as a platform to argue every point. If you can't be open minded and you are constantly putting up walls then you might as well not ask for critique. You don't want to change anything you are doing and that's fine, but don't waste people's time by asking for things you clearly do not want.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:07
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JuniperCake posted:It doesn't when give and take means you never seriously consider advice and instead use the critique as a platform to argue every point. If you can't be open minded and you are constantly putting up walls then you might as well not ask for critique. You don't want to change anything you are doing and that's fine, but don't waste people's time by asking for things you clearly do not want. if I wasn't considering it iwouldn't respond.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:12
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The problem is that, as far as I can tell, you have applied literally 0% of the advice that everyone is giving you to your writing. The people in this forum are not out to get you (well some people might be now, but it's because of your attitude) and they genuinely enjoy seeing people improve their writing and grow as authors. This is, no joke, one of the most helpful writing communities you are likely to find on the internet, because they are willing to break down the errors you make and tell you exactly how to correct them. If you want a hugbox community where everyone is going to pat you on the back even if you vomit up Sonic the Hedgehog fan-fic with a grade-school grasp on grammar and style, there are plenty of those floating around. This is not one of them. The reason people respond with hostility to you now is that you keep proving over and over that you are only wasting their time. Show us some writing where you've taken a single iota of advice to heart, and people will start taking you more seriously. You've basically expended your reserves of good will here, and yet still people are taking time out of their day to give you good, honest advice. You aren't "considering" anything, you are ignoring it all and forging ahead. You can that route if you want, but then don't act bewildered when everyone treats you like a boil on CC's rear end.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:22
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Due to this technicall "this" should always be followed by an actual noun. In casual prose, it's not that important because people skip it in conversation all the time. But there should at least be a comma after "this" or the phrasing is confusing and looks like a typo. Also, "Due to X" almost never reads right in fiction. It sounds too much like a phrase from a freshman history paper. In a freshman composition class I got nailed on this issue repeatedly. I asked my prof to explain why she kept writing "this WHAT" in red ink every time I made that mistake. I don't remember what her answer was, but I do remember that I didn't comprehend her response. For some reason I thought about that paper again last week and forgot to google it. Thank you for explaining the issue concisely and clearly. Seriously.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:18
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DrNougat posted:In a freshman composition class I got nailed on this issue repeatedly. I asked my prof to explain why she kept writing "this WHAT" in red ink every time I made that mistake. I don't remember what her answer was, but I do remember that I didn't comprehend her response. For some reason I thought about that paper again last week and forgot to google it. Thank you for explaining the issue concisely and clearly. Seriously. An easy way to remember the rule is to imagine "this" and "that" as physically pointing at an object, thus you need to actually mention the object you are pointing too. This book, that chair, this popcorn maker, that paper shredder, this empty bottle, that full bottle, etc. When speaking casually, we don't always need to actually name the object, because it's right there in front of us, and generally pretty obvious what it is. Though anyone who has been asked "can you hand me that?" by someone pointing at a toolbox can tell you that's not always the case. Because of this colloquial usage, I think that it's fine to drop the object of the this/that point when writing prose, especially in a colloquial voice or style. As long as the this/that object is obvious, or you're setting up the toolbox joke, leaving it off is fine. This rule-bending does not apply to non-fiction writing.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:26
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Here's another repeat for your convenience: You said in fiction advice that you respond to critiques because you want a little give and take and like to learn from active communication, but it is apparent that what you really want to do is talk down to people and explain away any negative responses. The issue with #2 stemmed from a implied punctuation error. I also called myself a ubermensch to gently caress with the guy calling my a crazed Russian introvert.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:33
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This story was very bad and that's coming from someone who actually reads Tom Clancy for pleasure, so let that sink in for a minute. I'm (obviously) not good at literary critique, but when I see something gritty/edgy, my main criterion is "would this sound correct if I read it in the voice from the Max Payne video games", and if yes, it's probably godawful. That said, we're all about improvement here of course, so I do hope you take some of the above high-effort critiques to heart, although based on what I've seen so far, I ain't putting much money on that particular horse.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:01
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SoundMonkey posted:This story was very bad and that's coming from someone who actually reads Tom Clancy for pleasure, so let that sink in for a minute. On my part I have decided to read up and consult things like the monomyth to ensure that I don't introduce a conflict or setting halfassedly. This refinement still doesn't stop me from enjoying things that well to do critics or seasoned amateurs turn up their noses at. This is just a question: don't crucify me.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:28
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Sithsaber posted:this begs another question: do all stories have to be "good"? no but not all stories have to be read, either. And if you don't care if anyone reads your stories, why are you posting them on an internet discussion forum???
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Jul 24, 2014 00:15
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Sitting Here posted:no but not all stories have to be read, either. You skipped the majority of that post. The question is mostly rhetorical, and obviously I want stories to be "good". I'm also watching HIMYM while I cook.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:28
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