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SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


NippleFloss posted:

The serial connection is always (there may be a caveat here somewhere, but for standard devices assume always) a continuous connection to a single session. There is no session management, it's just a direct connection in to whatever is happening on the "physical" console, whichever tty device that maps to. So yes, log out. Ive connected to devices before and found myself already logged in as root or admin because the last user didn't log out.

The other rather useful bit about this however is that if you're trying to troubleshoot multiple devices at once using a serial connection, or just check how a device is doing (i.e. watching a Cisco switch boot), you can just move the console cable around and the next bit of output that gets sent by the device just shows up in Putty, assuming you didn't close the session. So you can connect to the switch, see that it's halfway through booting, plug the cable back into another switch or ASA or whatever you were doing work on and just pick up from where you left off.

Think of it more like a VGA connection where if you plug it in it'll just instantly negotiate and display whatever's getting sent out by the device. The session you're opening in Putty is really more opening it on the computer side.

The only caveat is that if the device isn't sending anything out (i.e. your Cisco switch has finished booting), you have to hit enter (or really any key, assuming you can find the any key) a few times to get it to give you a login prompt. I've seen people sit there with a blank screen going "this loving thing isn't working" because they already had the Putty session opened, connected the console cable to another device, and didn't send any input to the device so it didn't respond.

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SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Santa is strapped posted:

Because I have a shitload of poo poo running



Looks like you need a bigger monitor then.

(That's not a joke, if you can't fit all the poo poo you're running in your systray you need a bigger monitor. I'm totally with Tab on this one, should be a default to show all icons).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


The thing is though, remember when he was just corvettefisher? Remember when he was downtrodden and didn't speak up for himself, had to deal with a 24 drive RAID 0, and SHSC spent a bunch of time telling him to grow a spine?

It's just hilarious to me that he seems to have done so, only the spine twisted horribly during the growth process and now he's got a huge chip on his shoulder for unfathomable reasons and spends a bunch of time not only hugely overcompensating for once being an irrelevant nothing but firmly denying that it's anything of the sort.

I guess what I'm saying is spergs gonna sperg, and I'm ever so grateful because it's more laughs for the :10bux: . God I love this forum! </down(s)periscope>

P.S. DAF, if you ever need a new job, I'm happy to pay you $110k. Don't worry your contract will only be for 80 hours a week - almost nothing really. I mean if you want to work more on top of that that's good too and you should probably do that to make sure you're really the best worker at the company - we don't like subpar performance around here.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Zero VGS posted:

but the long and short of it is Uptime and not having things automagically gently caress themselves every year or two.
If you're configuring and maintaining servers correctly, the likelihood of this is very low, even on the Windows side. I still think it's more likely than a Linux server that "just runs", sure, but I have never had DCs gently caress themselves with no involvement from anyone.

Zero VGS posted:

I've seen servers get viruses
Someone's doing it wrong

Zero VGS posted:

windows updates break poo poo,
Sure, but you have Veeam right? Or something else that can give you an almost instant rollback of the VM? (If not, why not?)

Zero VGS posted:

raid recoveries fail
Valid, though if you're so concerned you could do a RAID-1 on flash to minimize the potential. Sure, still probably not as reliable as built-in flash on a switch, with a second switch standing by, but with DHCP failover etc you can have another VM standing by on another RAID, and what everyone's trying to say is that the management and auditability of the Windows solution is far better than an embedded device, so the extra perceived reliability of the embedded device doesn't outweigh the cons of using it. Also, to contribute some plural of anecdote the failure rate for RAID-5 (under 1 TB disks) or RAID-6 (over 1 TB) recoveries I've done is probably below 10%.

Zero VGS posted:

(which it isn't because my only servers are in Azure and I don't even want to imagine how that is supposed to work over VPN).
As others have said, jesus dude. No local infrastructure? That seems in direct opposition to your "redundant and failproof" goal. Sure, if you so desire, have the cloud be your datacenter and the local stuff just for redundancy, but the cloud (or butt, as I prefer to call it) is still pretty lovely in terms of uptime, random outages, etc. (It seems like every other week I log into O365 and they're rebuilding one or the other service or waiting for an outage to be fixed).

Zero VGS posted:

Many people have their print server double up as DHCP
With VMs there is absolutely no reason to do this anymore except licensing cost (and if so, you work at a company that's too frugal). The most amount of services I dump on one Windows VM is DHCP/DNS/AD, and that's because my environments are small enough I can get away with it. If they were any bigger I'd be doing separate DHCP-only servers. Everything else gets its own sandbox.

Anyway, as someone said, best tool for the job. I think the point here is not just that the Windows product itself is better, it's that a product with easy manageability, accessibility, and auditing is far better than something essentially buried on an embedded device (inaccessible to anyone without at least some knowledge and more importantly privileges to manage switches), and making blanket statements that Winblowz sucks are basically contrary to what most good IT people have learned, which is that fanboyism has no place in enterprise IT because it really is a case of whether one product will best fulfill the needs of the company.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Syano posted:

Same guy

I can hear MJP going "you know, that explains so goddamn much"

edit: gently caress that's what I get for not refreshing the thread since I loaded it in this tab 8 hours ago.

SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jan 3, 2015

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Zero VGS posted:

Our cabling is all being left to the pros. I'm just super pissed because that IT consultant I mentioned is charging $20k to basically draw up blueprints of where the wiring goes. It's some package deal union racket they got going but whatever. I bust my rear end to save a few grand buying phones and PCs and these guys can basically negate all I do, because I create a huge budget surplus so the CFO wants to go on a spree now.

This kind of demonstrates what I think others have said and what I'm going to say directly, that in a cabling project the cost of the more advanced cable, connectors, jacks, plates, patch panels etc is dwarfed by the cost of labor, whether that's installer labor or consultant bullshit. And you only do it once every 10-20 years. Put in the best you can, don't look back.

Reason to go Cat6A vs Cat6 is that 6A can support 10 gigabit, at least for short distances, whereas Cat6 is "maybe you'll get 10 gigabit for 10 m if everything's terminated amazingly". Also, if installers are doing it, who cares if the cable's thicker / bulkier? Their problem, that's what you're paying them for.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Windows 10 command prompt/powershell has some improvements to the UI. You can copy paste with ctrl-c and ctrl-v now!

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a sarcastic post or not.

To be clear, I am glad you can copy/paste in a command prompt now. However, I think it's patently loving absurd that it's taken 5 major revisions and 15 years of the modern Windows OS to add this ability.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Bhodi posted:

Yeah, there is. It might be in a new version, or at least newer than I've got. I actually interviewed at VMWare and it was pretty interesting to hear the amount of friction between the group responsible for the web interface and the rest of the company (and world) - they got a LOT of flak for what they tried to get people to move to and it made waves pretty high up the chain. They were pretty frank about it too, it's all a big joke even if they can't say it publicly (I can, I never signed poo poo!)

Yeah, because it was a gigantic steaming pile of poo poo, and still is. I don't disagree with the motive and ideas - accessing the client from anywhere without a 500 MB app download/install (especially one that has to be reinstalled for every point update) is an excellent goal. But Flash is not good enough, and HTML 5 was a pipe dream at the time they started making the client. I don't care if I can access the client from anywhere if the client sucks and is vastly slower than what it replaced. And to be honest we were 100% VMware on our clients and that was basically the push to start moving people to VMware if they didn't have large VM environments. (That plus the absolutely asinine small matter of VMware forgetting that people who use ESXi Free do not have VCenter, and consequently do not have the web client, and thus cannot manage their hosts, especially once they upgraded the VM hardware to version 10 and didn't release a version of the C# client that could manage those VMs. Oh what's that VMware? I've faithfully upgraded ESXi and my VM hardware versions and now I can't do jack poo poo with my VMs and you expect my 5 person client to drop 600 smackers for VSphere Essentials? How about you get hosed).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Thanks Ants posted:

I need to find a supplier of patch cables that doesn't supply them in plastic bags and uses a paper wrap to hold them together instead of the twist ties. Even having to pull 50 of those apart pisses me off.

I think I've said this before somewhere, but snippers.

This doohickey

Takes a tiny bit of paying attention not to nick the cables, but it's not that hard to avoid, and you'll just zip right on through those twist-ties.

We get all Allentel cables because unlike everyone else they figured out that the plastic tab on the connector needs to be at least an inch long and protected by a matching arched tab coming up from the other side of the connector so the tab can't get snagged on something, pulled up, and broken. But yeah, can't count the number of times I've just wanted to call them up and be like "fuckers, just send me a 5 foot long box with a bunch of cables laid out lengthwise inside it so I don't have to unpack and uncoil all these cables and leave them stretched out for a bit so they won't coil back up while we're patching".

Also if you're not using these snippers to cut zip-ties (not that you should be using zip-ties often) you're doing it wrong, and will cut yourself (or someone else) on the nasty little bit of plastic that will end up sticking out of the ziptie head. So buy like 5 of these snippers and put them in various places so you'll always have one available.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Misogynist posted:

If you don't need really high-strength stuff, BuyHookAndLoop has bulk velcro for 25% of that price:

http://www.buyhookandloop.com/products/strap-it

Perfectly adequate for tidying up a couple of cables from a Panduit organizer or whatever, though I'd use something firmer if you're trying to wrap a bulk of 48 at the end of a patch panel.

Monoprice has 5 yard rolls for $2.87 each, or less if you get volume.

Don't get me wrong, it's much shittier than name-brand Velcro - much stiffer and harsher (essentially more likely to feel like it's cutting your fingers as you handle it). However, for a patch panel type situation it's fine, since you theoretically don't modify that too much.

BlueBlazer posted:

Or you can get manly on it and get some real tools.

http://www.amazon.com/Klein-D228-8-...iagonal+cutters


No? For snipping twist-ties or cutting zip-ties, the snippers I linked are much easier and faster because they're short and easy to manipulate - what you linked is fine for essentially snipping Cat-5, but for delicate work like snipping twist-ties off rolled-up cables the Hakko & Xcelite snippers are far superior because the cutting blades are like 1/8" long and easy to get between the cable and the twist-tie. (Or line up flush with a ziptie head in the back of a rack at the oddest angle you can imagine, because zipties are always at the stupidest angles).

But yes I agree with always using Velcro - I believe we had a slapfight about it a couple months ago in the poo poo that pisses you off thread, and the conclusion was that DAF (I don't think it was actually him but he's a convenient punching bag) was a loving retard for saying that zipties were a good idea, and then we drank a bunch of scotch and returned to bitching about users. The only thing I use zipties for is UPS cabling, because it tends to be far more permanent than anything else and is big thick 12/10/8 gauge wire that Velcro is not as good at taming. Other than that, all Velcro all the time David Carradine would have had a much better experience had he used Velcro for his pleasure.

#ZiptiesKill

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


KillHour posted:

Both! Our company is too small for dedicated sales engineers, so I get to try to find new customers and then hold their hand designing the project while they complain about how everything should be free.

:confused:

Did you change jobs? I thought you worked for <giant wholesaler/distributor> in their consulting arm.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


the spyder posted:

New job starts in one week and the vacation in between has been amazing. I've been catching up on projects around the house and reading/preparing for the new job.

I'm not sure how to ask this, but I've been given the opportunity to start from the ground up building a new IT department for a ~500 person company. Helpdesk is covered by another team memeber, but suggestions are welcome.
I have two major issues I have to resolve. 1) IT is known as being terrible. It's on everyone's mind and I want to change this. Standardizing our helpdesk and rebuilding the networks will help, but only so much. 2) It's a fresh start. I can go with anything hardware wise. There's some EMC/Cisco/HP gear at the second HQ, otherwise it's a clean slate. Any suggestions are welcome. I want to make this place not only a great place to work IT wise, but a place where everything just works and IT is on top of things. What makes your job great? What makes you want to work on tough projects? Basically, how can I ensure I'm a good boss/leader. I've read the complaints, issues, nightmarish stories people have told on here and I want to avoid that as much as possible.

I don't have direct experience with this, but what I've seen people post in the past is basically protect your people and make sure expectations are managed (both theirs and more importantly the rest of the org's). If people are used to dumping projects on IT and demanding they be done in two days, no one is going to be happy and you're never going to get expectations to change.

Secondly, make sure your department is built for proactive rather than reactive responses. Basic things like making sure hardware & software works well together, redundancy is paramount (so that any one failure isn't an emergency, I knew one guy who basically tried to build things so that he didn't need to set up pages for failures at 3 AM because the systems were supposedly so redundant it would never be an emergency, though I'm not sure I would do this myself no matter how redundant things are), and ultimately seeking out and fulfilling the actual organizational needs in an organized / calculated fashion, rather than responding to tickets about needing some piece of software with "uh....why do we need this oh you need to get it ASAP OK well here you go aaaaah OK next fire".

Finally, my overarching goal is always the right tool for the right job, and making sure you find the balance between letting users have an enjoyable experience (i.e. not locked down to hell and back) while making sure you maintain the consistency & level of control you need to make the experience a good one. Things like not necessarily letting Macs in the organization without something like Casper, or having a firmly defined policy in terms of admin rights, software that can be installed on machines, etc. If the company is "modern", meaning BYOD & letting users do what they want, you may have a somewhat uphill struggle organizational inertia-wise convincing people that to help them you need to change some of that. Same with security-related changes (I'm struggling with changing password policies right now - hard to get people to buy into 15-character complex passwords when they've been able to use two character non-complex ones for the past 10 years).

And you sort of implied this, but if you don't have management backing you up on this you're hosed, so make sure all these changes are explained and that you have firm buy-in, so that when Special Snowflake McGee bitches about everything you're doing ruining his productivity you have management fighting the battle for you.

This sounds awesome and I envy you for the opportunity. Let us know what you end up doing.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Sickening posted:

Why the need for the app and the database to live apart? Why not have access the app remotely and not chop it up?

I have the same problem, and the company responsible in this case basically said gently caress off, we don't support it unless you're accessing the app remotely and it has local subnet access to the SQL DB.

When we did packet captures etc., the problem appeared to basically be this, and as the one comment on that post says "this would have been so useful if it OFFERED ANY loving SOLUTIONS" (paraphrased).

So yeah we just went with RemoteApp, which isn't awful but is annoying that we had to do that. To answer your question, it would have been nice not to have to devote the RDS CALs and server RAM to run this app instead of running it locally on the machines.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Docjowles posted:

When I was first getting started in IT, I was in awe of people who could do poo poo like this. Now I've come to realize they're basically doing negative work. Instead of just buying the off-the-shelf product (or hell, using a free OSS tool) and moving on with your life, you've decided to use company time to play developer and roll your own hacked up piece of poo poo that kind-of does the same job half as well. Then it's sucked up your salary full time for 6 months to implement and support, still has a bunch of weird bugs, and once you leave the company no one will understand it or continue to use it. Great job :golfclap:

This is exactly how I've come to view these idiots, and I've also noticed a lot of them are free-software libtards, as the Register puts it. Anything Microsoft is automatically bad and sucks, and they'd rather try to hack together a Xen or KVM deployment than consider vSphere. (I may be slightly talking out of my rear end here, but as far as I know the management tools for Xen & KVM, other than what AWS has, don't compare to vCenter).

One of our clients essentially paid a fast-talking developer over a million dollars spread over 5-6 years to create the end-all be-all of systems to run a business (this company is a construction company, don't ask me why they thought they had any business developing software). Their aim was that not only would they use this system to run their business, they would sell it to other construction companies to run THEIR businesses. :wtf:

This developer was a total Mac zealot, to the point of yelling at our network admin (the only one of us who uses Linux as his desktop) that he was a Microsoft tool for daring to suggest that Exchange was the best option for mail servers. He also insisted on using Xserves to host this magical system, wanted the company to switch to Open Directory (this is back at the time of Leopard and Snow Leopard), and spent all his time trying to pin any problems with his system on us and "the network". And at the end of all this time and money, our client got a web-based thing hosted on two Xserves (technically one - the other was a hot backup, supposedly), that had about 20% of the functionality of Sharepoint, the free edition. And I mean, not that I wish Sharepoint on anyone, but what the gently caress.

Luckily seems like our client finally came to their senses and fired the guy, although the system is still vaguely in use for random purposes like new hire documentation (which could be easily put on the wiki instance that we've had running there for years). One Xserve has died, or at least is frozen at the booting screen, and we're kind of just waiting/hoping for the other one to croak.

Reinventing the wheel is fine for labs or exploration on your own time. Doing it in your job is amazingly stupid and people who claim themselves to be geniuses just because they wrote something that already exists are usually just egotistical idiots who think they can do it better than a team of developers/QA people. Don't get me wrong, if that dev/QA team works at Symantec then fine any idiot can write something better, but generally speaking I'll take the development team over some self-described guru.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


^^^^^ Holy poo poo, do you get to drive it? Can you drive it over to Tony's place and give him the finger, then speed off and leave him choking on your dust? That would be amazing.

evol262 posted:

You may want to stop reading the register. Free software is sometimes the best tool, sometimes not. You may also want to learn a lot more about virtualization solutions. And AWS. And open/free software. You're talking out of your rear end a lot more than slightly.

KVM is a kernel module. Xen is a supervising kernel. Xen has tools that almost nobody uses. KVM is just an accelerator for qemu on steroids. Almost nothing uses plain qemu. Both xen and KVM get the vast majority of their interaction through libvirt.

XenServer and RHEV (for xen and KVM) are products like vSphere. VMkernel is the equivalent to KVM. Not vCenter. Xen Cloud Platform and oVirt are the free versions of these (ovirt is actually upstream for rhev, xcp is just very similar to XenServer). Both are surprisingly comparable to vCenter, missing out on stuff like FT (nobody uses it anyway) and VAAI (proprietary). That changes when you add on a zillion vProducts, but for the "vCenter+hosts" use case, you'd find them very similar.

AWS is in such a different class you can't even compare it to vCenter in any meaningful way until/if VMware gets their poo poo together with vCloud and/or their openstack integration. You can compare it to openstack and eucalyptus, though.

FYI, we in the open source world also think these people are idiots. That's not a " $someos zealot" problem. He wanted to use the tools he thought he knew the best and nobody pushed back hard enough or ate the cost of his contract to get something sustainable which fit with the infrastructure and requirements at your workplace. When they did, they thought they could polish a turd or salvage something instead of just totally writing it off. Both sides failed badly, not just him.

The development team is often the problem, or one guy. Or the admin team. The problem is that people don't know what's out there, how other people solve it, and what their options are. I honestly see this less with *nix admins. Maybe because their teams are much smaller on average and they're supporting more servers per admin. Or they're more multidisciplinary than Windows admins because they're expected to know how to code more than a little bit. Or because years of fighting and tinkering with the OS have put them in compromising situations they've needed to figure out. Or because it's glued together and there's no nice products for stuff without tying together 5 programs yourself. I don't know.

But last time I saw a team re-invent network imaging, it was Windows. And last time I saw a team re-invent display forwarding, it was Windows. And last time I saw...

Stupid people are not limited to one OS

Oh hey I done got yelled at by our resident crankypants! I feel like I've made it as an SH/SC poster.

Anyway perfectly happy to admit I know jack and or poo poo about the Xen/KVM/VMkernel side of things, so thanks for the edumacation - I do have it on my list to learn far more about open source virt stuff since my current experience is all VMware and MS, and a decent amount of working with AWS. You should be aware however that my guiding principle is always the right tool for the right job, so if my post somehow came off as suggesting that open source tools are always the worse option that is not how it was meant. Apparently I picked a bad example. However I do think there are tools for which the open-source equivalent doesn't necessarily have the polish and consistency that the proprietary equivalent has (because that takes developer time and may not be a priority of the developers working on that project), and many times in a business environment admins simply don't have the time to gently caress around getting something to work, which is often a big reason to use and pay for those proprietary tools. Companies like Canonical, whatever else their sins are, at least have the right idea of trying to add that extra layer of whatever you want to call it that doesn't result in someone not familiar with the OS getting frustrated immediately. You know, what Apple does. (Well and your own company does the same thing on the server side so that the OS can be depended upon to not have ridiculous bugs and inconsistencies in operation because some developer didn't want to take the time to make his part work with another piece of the system).

As far as my client's developer goes, I was using zealot as a shorthand for what you describe, someone who isn't willing or able to learn another toolset and basically reacts by getting furious with anyone who suggests there's a better way (or rather a way that would be more appropriate for the situation). In this case we being vendors ourselves were unable to put our foot down in terms of how he and his system should interact with systems already in place, and our client, having hired the guy independently, obviously didn't want to admit to themselves his unsuitability for the job, and of course weren't technically knowledgeable enough themselves to know the full extent of the problem. That's also why it took 4-5 years to get rid of him, since basically he had ingratiated himself with the CEO and it took years of broken promises with his stuff clearly not doing what they had contracted for before they finally cut their losses.

In regards to "The problem is that people don't know what's out there, how other people solve it, and what their options are.", I would fully agree. My boss is a prime example, as he latches on to one thing and continues to push that one thing as the best answer, even when things may have changed. (The annoying bit is that I will push him and push him to change to something else when and if something better comes along, and he'll eventually change, only to insist that this new option is the best and there's nothing better). Four years ago he thought virtualization was stupid and unnecessary. Now it's "let's install a VM cluster!" for small offices where a single host would be more than enough. As far as I'm concerned that kind of certainty about any given product is death in our world, because even if it was the best option 4 weeks ago, something else may have just come along yesterday that costs less and does more, and not doing your homework about what's changed since you last dealt with an area of expertise is failing at your job.

Anyway, I look forward to your continued flaming and oh yes redhatsucksdebian4lyfe ok please continue.

What's wrong with the Register? It's like the IT version of the National Enquirer, I admit, but it's generally just amusing and I enjoy their random deviations into military scandals in Britain and of course BOFH.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


When UBNT was dragging their heels updating their software (v2 stable was 2.4.6, to get from there to stable version 3 was over a loving year) the ACs had the most problems, and I think they might have been hardware issues too. At the time we stayed with the Pros and those were pretty solid through all the beta software nonsense.

We have a bunch of the ACs now and they're just about as solid as the Pros were. Which is to say, mostly fine, some issues notably with Macs. (This is on version 3.2.10 of the software - Ubiquiti has released version 4 now but it's basically to control the Unifi Switch and Security Gateway, and since we're just using the APs there's no reason to use it according to the forums). Since you're 100% Mac that's certainly concerning, but I think it's probably worth testing out to see if you actually have issues (machines claiming they're disconnected, mostly).

As with any other wireless product I'd say it helps to tune it appropriately - setting power levels, non-overlapping channels between adjacent APs (don't rely on the built-in automapping, UBNT's anyway is not the best and will in fact put adjacent APs on the same channels, though obviously this is much more common on 2.4 GHz which hopefully you don't have to use). Setting minimum RSSI too - we've noticed machines sticking to access points long after they've left that AP's range and entered another's, though that's usually down to the wifi stack on the machine as far as I know.

So I wouldn't give the things a 100% stamp of approval, but for the money they still have the best price/performance ratio.

If you decide not to, the Ruckus stuff is actually surprisingly cheap - their AC midlevel APs I think were only about $100 more than the Ubiquiti ones, although of course you also have to buy the controller. I have no experience with them so can't comment on the performance, but when I was researching options everyone seemed to think the Ruckus stuff was good quality. (And Aruba, but being bought by HP would make me run away).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

The market value of a housekeeper's time is less than a systems admin role, but my company closed a site down and within a week of no housekeeping it became really gross.

When you consider that people were taking 30 minute breaks to drive to drive to McDonalds to poo poo somewhere clean, their work was definitely worth more than minimum wage.

I think all of this is really a matter of perspective in terms of what you mean by importance. Importance to yourself? Your company? Your industry? The entire set of companies/employees that we call the capitalist society? The human race?

I think flosofl means importance in terms of how complicated / difficult / high-level the job is, and that's fine - I don't think anyone's going to argue that janitor is a high-level position in the knowledge worker rat race that only people with specialized training and intelligence can undertake. But your point is also valid that in terms of the company continuing to function effectively the importance of clean bathrooms isn't something to gloss over, because if people are wasting 30 minutes just to drive to Mickey D's, that's significant lost manhours to the company, which goes right to the bottom line.

And unless either janitor or sysadmin is working for something like NASA or a research lab, neither of them is very important in terms of advancing our race's abilities/knowledge/position in the Universe, whatever you want to call it.

(whoa man that's deep :catdrugs:)

(no it isn't)


edit: VVVVVVV jesus loving christ on a loving stick dude VVVVVVVV

SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 6, 2015

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


KennyTheFish posted:

I missed the bit where Insidius was Australian.


Holy poo poo dude, you work in a country where employees have Real Rights (TM)? I thought you were another downtrodden Amurrican in a right to get fired state. You have even more reason to just quietly ignore anything and everything this psycho says to you, serve your given notice, and walk out without so much as documenting anything. And as Che says, look into getting some help and counselling - you've gone through a traumatic event, or rather a traumatic nine years, and you need to talk to someone who can guide you through getting over that trauma and moving on in a healthy way.

I have luckily never had to deal with assholes like this, and although of course I imagine I wouldn't stand for it, I think the boiling frog syndrome does play a part and any one of us could fall victim over time (and there's something to be said for human submission to perceived authority, similar to what the Milgram and Stanford Prison Experiments found).

And yeah, no one can remember everything all the time and you should never think that you are bad at your job for having to look something specific up.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Zero VGS posted:

Has anyone ever set up their phone system with a hybrid of both PRI and SIP? I'd like to make it so calls go out over VoIP, but if we ever suffer an internet outage, the call will persist and ring the office phone back through the PRI/PTSN. That's a thing right?

If you had a PRI, why on earth would you default to a sip call? Don't get me wrong, I like that route, but PRI is still the gold standard for quality etc.

You'd probably have to have a SIP provider that could do fail over forwarding to your PRI, which probably exists.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Zero VGS posted:

Exactly, they burn 30% more watts but the raw processing power hasn't improved that much since 2009. They were $30k retail in 2009 with the RAID/CPU/RAM/PSU setup I put into them, that much is the truth :)

? Try 300%, at least on the Dell side. 2950s regularly booted up and sucked up 3 amps whereas a R720 or R730 takes just over an amp sustained. Also I rather disagree with the processing power remark - VMs are noticeably faster on newer hardware.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


orange sky posted:

When I hear about helpdesk people making 30-40k in the US I go crazy.

Same, although that's because in the Bay Area 30-40k is so low that you can barely live here on that.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Erwin posted:

Xserves were actually very pretty. It's a shame Apple stopped making them.

Ugh. Yeah they were pretty, but anything where you can eject a disk by accidentally pushing on a large portion of the front of the server is just not designed by someone with any experience of how business IT functions.

Case in point, my onsite tech a few days ago, when instructed to remove an old ESXi host, informed me a few minutes later that he'd pulled power on the wrong host. The one that was temporarily hosting all the VMs at that client.

:ughh:

Basically, make it easy for people to gently caress up and they will. Form should never trump function in servers of all goddamn things. (And because I don't particularly like Xserves, naturally I still have to support two of them running 10.5 and 10.6 hosting a lovely Sharepoint clone my client paid a fast-talking Mac zealot developer $1m to create. Actually one Xserve, the other one won't boot now. Why were they different editions of OSX? No clue! Especially since the point was that one would be a hot standby. Luckily that's the one that died. I can't wait for the other one to croak).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


keseph posted:

because some of the class material is hopelessly idealistic and certain things cannot be practically implemented outside an ivory tower. The key to being good that tends to come from experience is to tell the difference between the two.

Absolutely. For instance the actual MCSE materials (2003/2008) era make it sounds like the built in remote/VPN solution in Windows Server (ISA) is great and fantastic and in widespread use, whereas far as I know even in the heyday of Server 2003 not that many people used it. Even while I was going through the learning process to get those certs, which I did before even having an IT job (paper tiger ahoy), I could tell that some of this stuff was clearly Microsoft trying to teach you to use their built-in solution but that the real world probably did not generally use it because of configuration difficulty, unreliability, or simply that someone else had a much better solution (i.e. why would you terminate a critical service like VPN on a full-blown server operating system rather than a network device that theoretically is more locked down and less likely to crash randomly).

And then yeah, a lot of people don't know what best practice or recommended config looks like (or it's changed since it was set up, see under AD domains ending in .local), so you look at it and go "that doesn't match with what Cisco/Microsoft/VMware says you should do" and then either the person who did it goes "I know, but here's why I chose this design and made the decision to go against their recommendation", or "derpity I've always done it this way seems to work we shouldn't change it". The latter situation is when you start figuring out if that person is amenable to arguments as to why they're wrong and willing to change, or whether you should start considering YOTJ.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


For what it's worth, I've never had that cause any issues.

Raising the FOREST functional level I'm a little more cautious on because theoretically that means not allowing member servers of that level, so for instance one of our clients is still forest functional level 2003 because they still have two Server 2003 machines :suicide:.

But yeah even Microsoft says don't be a pussy:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/askds/archive/2011/06/14/what-is-the-impact-of-upgrading-the-domain-or-forest-functional-level.aspx

Edit: today I learned Thanks Ants lives in the past

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


evol262 posted:

working in IT is a derail from "general IT bitching thread #256"

Um, do you mean 255? Anyone would think you didn't work in IT.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Another OTRS user/admin chiming in to say that it does the job and is pretty simple to set up etc. It's pretty powerful, though we don't have it doing much beyond basic ticketing, but I've set up a couple rules/autojobs to move tickets to people etc.

Upgrading/migrating it is a bit annoying, but it's more just that it's a lot of steps (especially if you're moving it to another machine instead of upgrading in place, which is necessary if you're trying to set up a new one and verify it works before decomming the old in-production version) than actually difficult.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Sheep posted:

That's how I do things. I imagine it'd devolve into a management nightmare of conflicting maps of infrastructure and "did I remember to update the documentation when I added a new cable run?"-esque problems if you didn't. Is there anyone here who, if given the option, doesn't do this?

The only time I can think of is when specific ports are in specific rooms for specific departments that need a VLAN but the loving goobers who wired the place did some loving shitnugget numbering (I think they literally just grabbed things cable by cable when patching to the panel and went "OK you're 1, you're 2, you're 3", or something) so the ports in a specific room (the "lab") were in no way contiguously numbered. gently caress that loving wiring job. I ended up using different wire color to indicate VLANs since the VLANs were pretty much static and I needed some way to easily see what ports were what physically.

But yeah other than that or other things where physical port layout requires it, not organizing your VLANs in ranges seems pretty dumb.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


^^ yeah what he said

Chickenwalker posted:

I'm getting so much stink eye from supervisors and co-workers when I press the issue that I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or something.

:psyduck:

If multiple people at your place of work think torrents are acceptable I think you need to either hire some outside security consultants to deliver a smackdown they'll pay attention to (theoretically) and/or if that doesn't work :yotj: .

From a network perspective even torrenting legal things is a bit of an issue because of the potential bandwidth use, connections to random IPs, etc.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Sprechensiesexy posted:

"Are your thongs safe in the Butt?"


COME ON MAN IT WAS RIGHT THERE

ninja: right there in the butt

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Paladine_PSoT posted:

I've been in a work coma for a year, did I miss anything?

blackswordCA got a different job and the stories stopped.

Then his brother from another mother larchesdanrew came to us and our lives have been forever made schadenfreudier.

Also both Dick Trauma and nitrogen found pods and we hates them now precioussss.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


22 Eargesplitten posted:

I'm interviewing for a junior network administrator position on Friday. Is there any sort of list of "Know This poo poo" I should look at for networking? I have been studying for the CCNA, but I'm still on the CCENT section, so I don't know anything about (for example) Spanning Tree Protocol.

Do you mean STP? Because you're going to need to use the right acronym here or flosofl will come after you. And god help you if you think that means shielded twisted pair, because in that case you're fired and will never be allowed to hold an IT job ever again.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


NeuralSpark posted:

Conversely, I don't really want anyone that isn't directly attached to my network talking to my toilet because I can't trust the toilet vendor to not leave 120 sharts, including stoolnet and an SSH1T server, open. SHAT is pretty convenient poop man's fartwall.


It's the scotch talking. Yes, that's it.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


psydude posted:

Anyone ever notice how there's a lot of people working in IT named Tom? And Dave?

The company that owns one of our clients has a domain controller named Tom.

And another named Jerry.

:suicide:

They're all like that, and the weirdest part is it's a buttoned down financial environment, not exactly where you'd expect to find "funny" server names.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


psydude posted:

Friday night is like THE night for change windows for most of my customers.

I like to change poo poo on Thursdays. That way if we missed something that only the users would figure out, we find out about it on Friday, and if it's a truly critical problem that will take a while to solve, well, good, we have the weekend to solve it or roll back. Changing on the weekend for Monday rollouts seems very stressful because Mondays are generally busy anyway with people catching up on weekend work, so they're extra annoyed if something doesn't work (whereas generally on Friday if something's broken no one gives a poo poo because hell you just helped them start their weekend early).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Bringing this up from earlier in the thread, Clam Down, I think you're a furriner :fsmug: so I will excuse the lack of English knowledge, but you actually meant stationery. Stationary means not moving. Stationery means papers, writing implements, office supplies, etc.

:goonsay:

Edit: English, where the words are made up and the spellings don't matter.

SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 15, 2016

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Sickening posted:

Yes. Very little practical anything still in 2016.

This kind of thing is why I think a lot of people use braindumps, and although I don't myself, I see the appeal - why bother spending time memorizing where specific options are on the screen when in your actual job you'll never need that option and when you do it's two seconds of clicking around, or Google if you need to. How often is there a Jack Bauer type situation where the extra few seconds it takes to click the tab and read the options to see if the one you want is there are critical? Don't get me wrong, if you don't know where to go to change an IP etc. that's a problem, but testing people on the inner nooks and crannies of the OS (which change slightly every revision) is such a waste of time.

Cisco's simlets are so much more useful for actually testing knowledge of the system that it makes the Microsoft tests look silly. If Microsoft really wanted to test ability, they'd have a simlet that required using some obscure settings in obscure tabs, and have the simlet be aggressively timed - either you're good enough at figuring things out quickly to make the changes, or you did in fact memorize all the settings. Either way, just like in real life, you either get it done in a sensible amount of time or you're bad at the test (and therefore job).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


LochNessMonster posted:

If you're lucky he'll pick it up from there and you'll only have to help him a few times per week for the rest of the year. If you're unlucky he'll be at your desk multiple times per day until either you quit or get him fired.


Or, he'll be good, and within a month of him becoming in your mind a stable dependable resource who can be counted on to fix problems quickly and competently, he'll figure out helldesk sucks and move on without warning, thus dumping you even further into the pit of despair than where you started back in November.

I've only met one helpdesk guy who was both competent and seemingly happy to continue doing it (dude's been helpdesk for 7+ years) and I'm pretty sure he's slightly autistic or otherwise just unmotivated. That's a true IT unicorn.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


CLAM DOWN posted:

But...how do you know in advance that you'll be sick :psyduck:

and sharing sick days with your vacation pool is just :lol:

In other news I have successfully made the sick rear end in a top hat go home, and I have gotten out the sanitizer spray for all surfaces he was near :|

Dude, the "ho ho ho I'm a Canadian what's all these wacky :911: vacation hijinx" shtick got old a couple hundred pages ago. We get it, you live in a sensible country that doesn't regard its workers as so much grist for the mill. You don't have to keep harping on so we feel extra bad about how much employers in this country generally screw over their employees. Go get a free knee replacement or something and stop posting about it. :argh:

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


H110Hawk posted:

docx is your source code pdf is your compiled binary :suicide:

Yeah I'm astonished at the > 0 number of people treating docx as an allowable format in which to send a resume. Do you want Shittina McHRperson with her 30" monitor running at 800x600 to pull up your docx in Word 2007 with all the bullet points spanning five lines instead of one and the tables all hosed up? "Well this looks terrible, and this person works with computers? S/he obviously doesn't know how to use computers".

Not to mention the editability point of view. I mean sure, you CAN edit PDFs, but it's definitely an advanced operation for most users (and most don't have full Acrobat or Nitro or whatever anyway), as opposed to "oh this is a Unix system Word doc I know this".

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SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


mayodreams posted:

Anyone have a link to that idiot who made a giant usb hub based jbod/raid that was posted a while back? I was trying to share it the other day.

Was it in fact DAF who worked at the place with the 20 TB RAID 0 or whatever insanity it was? I remember those screenshots.

Ahhh, DAF, whose masterful quote still graces our thread title.

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