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Konkvistador posted:You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. You seem to be interested in modern relevant politics like healthcare. This bores me to death and isn’t relevant. Jim posted:A reference? You mean Harvard official truth? Of course I cannot give you a reference.
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Oct 6, 2014 04:53
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Peel posted:Does Yudkowsky even want to be associated with these people? It's a different and way worse flavour of daft to his stuff. No, he doesn't. I believe he said that Moldbug's mind was so destroyed by politics that he could no longer distinguish between positive and normative statements. (This struck me as an odd thing to single out at when I first read it, but then I realized it was a pretty apt condemnation of the bizarre "might makes right" arguments Moldbug made in his early posts.)
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Oct 10, 2014 01:39
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WickedHate posted:Do you have a source on this? It's nice to see assholes call out other assholes on being assholes. I can't find the specific quote, although I did find other examples of Yudkowsky saying he doesn't like Moldbug. http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2013/11/mr-jones-is-rather-concerned.html http://lesswrong.com/lw/fh4/why_is_mencius_moldbug_so_popular_on_less_wrong/ Edit: Actually, the quote is in the second link. Eliezer_Yudkowsky posted:Politics mindkilled him; he cannot separate the normative and the descriptive. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 18:40 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 18:23
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The Vosgian Beast posted:http://theviewfromhellyes.wordpress.com/2014/10/18/the-history-of-fertility-transitions-and-the-new-memeplex/ Apparently the piece was misinterpreted satire, and the author is actually an antinatalist (!): http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/01/links-for-november-2014/#comment-156147
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Nov 1, 2014 19:16
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Spoilers Below posted:It really is a drat shame. Isn't that the person who claims Beethoven was black? Also, Aurini is creepy as hell, even watching with the sound off.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:39
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Haha oh wow, I mean I knew about bicameralism and all that and it never really amounted to more of a "huh I guess that's one way it could have happened" sort of thing for me. I didn't realize anyone thought that asians literally had them to this day. How do you even reconcile that image with anything about reality? Wait I know the answer to that one too. I think Phobophilia was being partly facetious there (although I agree that bicameralism is highly improbable). On the other hand, this guy (who probably doesn't identify with the Dark Enlightenment but can be reasonably placed in the same general cluster) does seem to make some arguments about Asian educational achievement that seem to imply that Asians have some special tendency to seem to acquire knowledge without actually understanding it: https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/
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Nov 24, 2014 06:25
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Zemyla posted:One thing I don't get about all of this conspiracy stuff is, if the Jews can secretly take over the world and suppress all dissent, ten why aren't they "naturally" suited to rule? What makes them "bad rulers"? The DE doesn't believe Jews are "bad rulers," or even that they're the ones who rule the world. That's part of what distinguishes them from other far-rightists. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 15:07 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 15:04
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HEY GAL posted:What happened to him since he wrote those anti neo-reactionary blogposts (which were pretty good, iirc)?  He's made some good posts since then, but also some bad posts.
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Nov 25, 2014 00:38
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HEY GAL posted:No, what changed his mind to be more sympathetic to racism? I think he's moved rightward in some respects due to reading a lot of high-effort far-right stuff and a lot of low-effort liberal stuff. BTW, here's Jim (the loudest, dumbest, and most assholish of the Neoreactionaries) getting mad at Scott. Some good schadenfreude here: http://blog.jim.com/politics/no-enemies-to-the-left-no-friends-to-the-right-4/
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Nov 25, 2014 00:46
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bartlebyshop posted:Jim, as loudest and dumbest, and not Spandrell? Jim by a landslide. Dude is pretty much always angrily declaring the exact opposite of reality.
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Nov 25, 2014 02:09
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Lightanchor posted:Iron Pill is hilarious and very good. I can't tell what the intended level of irony of this comic is.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:45
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Zohar posted:Well, Nick Land laid out the definitive systematisation of "the dark enlightenment" in his eponymous essay and to a large extent it's a logical upshot of some aspects of his earlier thinking. He's probably singlehandedly the most influential force in defining them as a single "thing". It seems fairly clear to me that Land delights in watching the world devour itself (from a safe distance) and always has. One of the fascinating contradictions in Moldbug's thought is that for all his authoritarianism, he genuinely dislikes violence, hence his inability to put forward a coherent plan to achieve the radical change he wants. Land, on the other hand, seems to enjoy watching death and destruction even when he claims to be criticizing the people he blames for it. He's not as explicit about it as Marinetti, but you can see it in his word choices. Not denying that Land sometimes says interesting things, but he's a bad person and was a bad person before the DE existed. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:34 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 02:24
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Qwertycoatl posted:I've always assumed the writing is terrible and longwinded so only people who already agree with their worldview will actually read it. And then they can dismiss any criticism with "you didn't even read these fifty pages of word salad, so you have no right to disagree" I find Moldbug perfectly readable without agreeing with his worldview. (On the other hand, Carlyle, who Moldbug is such a big fan of, was genuinely unreadable.)
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Dec 19, 2014 01:17
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Vorpal Cat posted:Ironically there is some genetic evidence of intermarriage between early modern humans and neanderthals, however its only present in people who's ancestors lived side by side with neanderthals, aka white people. I supposed that means we should give up our dreams of world domination and bow down to the innate genetic superiority of the other races. Unless , for some reason Dark Enlightenment thinkers mean something else when they talk about violent neanderthal descended individuals. Other way around. He's saying Neanderthal-descended people are the superior ones (literally because Neanderthals had prettier faces than Cro-Magnons).
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Dec 19, 2014 18:48
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Count Chocula posted:Hey, don't lump the Futurists in with these idiots. Whatever their politics, the Futurist Manifesto is still an electrifying piece of poetry. I might not agree with their views but this is a far cry from the Dark Enlightenment's usual obscurantist waffle: Starting an "Is Attack on Titan fascist?" debate in PYF? Well played. Unless you're sincerely defending Matinetti's declared intent "to glorify war — the only cure for the world — militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman." Edit: For the sake of fairness, another translation has "We will glorify war—the world’s only hygiene—militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for, and scorn for woman." This is slightly better ("scorn" is subtly different from "contempt," dying for an idea isn't the same as being killed by one, and "freedom-bringers" saves Matinetti from the contradiction of championing both patriotism and anarchism), but not by much. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 03:46 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 03:35
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I see your point about the idea of art depicting machines. Having said that, even the non-political parts of the Futurist Manifesto are often pretty silly, and the love of machines has a nasty side too.Marinetti posted:Literature has up to now magnified pensive immobility, ecstasy and slumber. We want to exalt movements of aggression, feverish sleeplessness, the double march, the perilous leap, the slap and the blow with the fist. G. K. Chesterton posted:While I am quite willing to exalt the cuff within reason, it scarcely seems such an entirely new subject for literature as the Futurists imagine. It seems to me that even through the slumber which fills the Siege of Troy, the Song of Roland, and the Orlando Furioso, and in spite of the thoughtful immobility which marks "Pantagruel," "Henry V," and the Ballad of Chevy Chase, there are occasional gleams of an admiration for courage, a readiness to glorify the love of danger, and even the "strengt of daring," I seem to remember, slightly differently spelt, somewhere in literature.
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Dec 23, 2014 05:26
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Count Chocula posted:Wasn't there an SA troll who claimed to be a 'GK Chesterton style Catholic' who was really into the monarchy and DE stuff? Not a fan of this piece. He's not really wrong about Lewis and not even totally wrong about Tolkien, but his attack on Tolkien is somewhat contradictory; apparently Tolkien is simultaneously too much of a Romantic and not enough of a Romantic. His championing of Susan Cooper over Lloyd Alexander also raised my eyebrow, and at times he resorts to crude Anglophobia ("all these books seem to be written with a slight lisp"). Edit: Good stuff here: http://www.zone-sf.com/mmoorcock.html Moorcock posted:I'm not sure I've ever finished it. I know I started skipping early, looking for the little Gollum character, who was the only character in it I could identify with. I rather liked him. But the rest, I didn't give a drat what happened to them. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:27 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 02:12
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Londoners are indeed the biggest Anglophobes. I can't tell if this is meant to be taken at face value or calling me out for not realizing Moorcock is British.
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Dec 24, 2014 02:33
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Small Frozen Thing posted:It is absolutely not a strawman. The Sword of Truth books Chocula mentioned feature a scene in which the protagonist righteously massacres a horde of "evil pacifists" for blocking his way to the villain, who is an evil Pseudo-Asian Communist. Him realizing the pacifists are evil for rejecting violence is considered an epiphany about objective morality. The books are completely in earnest. That came out decades after Iron Dream, though.
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Dec 25, 2014 06:49
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This thread has veered pretty far from its original topic. Maybe we should split this discussion off into a "PYF Fantasy/SF Writer Drama" thread?
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Dec 27, 2014 18:25
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Peel posted:You can compare the KKK's goofy names too. 'Grand Dragon'. 'Imperial Wizard'. The history of radical right thought is the history of ridiculous dorks. Organization and Principles of the Ku Klux Klan posted:Section 1. The officers of this Order shall consist of a Grand Wizard of the Empire and his ten Genii; a Grand Dragon of the Realm and his eight Hydras; a Grand Titan of the Dominion and his six Furies; a Grand Giant of the Province and his four Goblins; a Grand Cyclops of the Den and his two Night Hawks; a Grand Magi, a Grand Monk, a Grand Scribe, a Grand Exchequer, a Grand Turk, and a Grand Sentinel. You can't make this stuff up. Bonus points for not realizing that "Magi" is plural. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:40 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 02:37
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twistedmentat posted:Self styled Col. Simmons who founded the second incarnation of the Klan was a giant loving dork who was way into secret societies of the time. He wasn't so much a member, but a nerd who read about them in books. The fantasy monster titles actually come from the First Klan. The Second Klan ditched many of those titles but invented some even sillier terminology: Kloran, Klonversation, Klavern, Klavaliers... Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 03:07 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 02:59
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:Here have a dark enlightenment blog. Jims Blog. Jim really is the worst. He's not even interesting to dissect, because there's really nothing there beyond stating the exact opposite of conventional wisdom without any supporting evidence at all and RARRGH I HATE WOMEN AND NON-WHITES.
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Feb 5, 2015 16:33
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DStecks posted:
ikanreed posted:Which is bullshit. Apolitical reporting can be quite liberal, if you're actually informing people and not pulling a fox news, where you make your viewers dumber. This isn't really what neoreactionaries mean by "apolitical." (Remember, they're reactionary, not conservative; they don't like the status quo and desire a radical return to something resembling a previous state, or at least resembling what they imagine to be a previous state.) They're saying it's outside of politics in the narrow sense, i.e., it's not primarily or directly about elections, political parties, legislatures, and the like (which neoreactionaries, like many radicals on the left, tend to think don't really change anything). The idea is to move things rightward by influencing long-term cultural trends instead. In practice, I suspect this attempt at culture-shaping is mostly futile, because it's done too overtly and from too far outside the Overton Window. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 03:52 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 03:44
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Yeah, pretty much. "First, they came for the nazis, and I said nothing, because I was not a nazi..." [/quote] I think Auerbach has a point about the logic of "distraction." If followed consistently, it's pretty self-defeating. I'm not sure why they can't just be honest and say "We don't want to give a platform to far-rightists." Calling it "a big, big problem" seems like a stretch, though. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 23:37 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 23:31
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neonnoodle posted:The ultimate Neoreactionary is perhaps Lyndon LaRouche, whose worldview encompasses not only kooky crypto-fascist politics and economics, but also srs bzns aesthetic philosophy that privileges Germany over the rest of Europe. LaRouche is his own brand of crazy, which doesn't have much to do with Moldbug et al. Interestingly, despite his love of classical German composers and his antisemitism, he really hates Wagner. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 05:47 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 05:44
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Cingulate posted:I think interpreting Mad Men in a pro-50s way is a lot less obviously dumb than interpreting GoT as pro-feudalism. That is, it's both obviously dumb, but the former less so. I believe neoreactionaries do tend to identify with Sauron and Saruman.
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Jul 4, 2015 18:33
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Merdifex posted:Never understood why Scott thinks that NRx is not classifiable as either right or left. Even Moldbug had no illusions about that and was proud of being as right as right can be. It's not that they aren't right-wing, it's that they don't fit into the cultural category Scott associates with typical Republicans, ie, they're educated, not necessarily religious, don't drive pickup trucks.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:33
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Curvature of Earth posted:Actually, I think it's possible to have a good government without democracy. IIRC Moldbug essentially believes that civil servants run the government in practice already, and that's the problem.
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Jul 17, 2015 04:37
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ahead. I've put far too much thought into this.
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divabot posted:This was that article from Scott that I quite liked, that made a point of how technology level strongly influenced how the society worked. (Though I would like to see countervailing opinions. Not many good ones in the comments.) Some of Scott's examples seem poorly chosen or outright wrong. His claim in the comments that “Chinese imperial bureaucracy was just an especially competent local variant on the feudal system for most of its history” needs to be argued for, at least. The overall point of the post seems harder to dispute, though.
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Jul 25, 2015 16:12
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The Vosgian Beast posted:As far as I can tell, Scott has just kinda bought into the idea that all non-hard sciences are contaminated by far-leftists who wish only to prove Marx right about everything. Scott seems to talk about social science stuff a lot, actually. He definitely does have a tendency to reinvent philosophical wheels, though, which is surprising because I believe philosophy was his college major.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:15
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Some parts of the dark enlightenment have kicked him out for that, and preferring old-fashioned racism to a new, speculative, space-racism. Also for doxxing/making death threats against other DE people, IIRC. Anissimov is nuts.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:48
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Woolie Wool posted:Neoreaction/Dork Enlightenment and their cousins over at LessWrong and satellites hate and fear culture. Certainly, they like their commodified pop culture, but more for its signifiers than for its content--many, perhaps the majority of these works have themes and messages that run directly against the sort of thought that underpins these movements. Of course, most obviously and inescapably, Eliezer Yudkowsky's nerd fanfic opus pretty much negates every premise, every theme, every moral of the actual Harry Potter book series, which features an antagonist whose name is French for "flight from death", whose all-consuming lust for immortal life has destroyed his ability to understand or experience even the slightest joy or human attachment. His followers believe in the inherent superiority of a group of people with natural, inherited gifts, even though the actual events of the story show that these people are in character no better, and frequently worse, than "Muggles" without these gifts. He is ultimately defeated by someone who has the natural talent but was raised by those who do not, and successfully integrates the his magical and Muggle sides into a mature identity, accepts his own mortality, and is willing to fight and die even for--especially for--the Muggles that according to Voldemort, he should see himself as innately superior to. Haven't read HPMoR, but that sounds like criticizing the themes of the original book, not ignoring them.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:55
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Aug 8, 2015 18:19
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Someone need to start defending Cingulate so we can have a Scott's Scott's Scott I agree with Patrick Spens that defending someone against misinterpretations isn't the same as agreeing with them.
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Aug 20, 2015 03:28
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Sure, I was just making a joke. You missed that my post was a defense of Cingulate, thus playing into your joke. 
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Aug 20, 2015 03:57
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Merdifex posted:Not only is Sociobiology complete bullshit, that's also a pretty old book, and E. O. Wilson has been pursuing his hereditist agenda for a long time, or at least most strongly in the 80s, when bullshiting about the false dichotomy of nature - nurture was acceptable (still is, see Pinker, J. R. Harris, and other assorted heredist morons.) These articles argue something rather less dramatic than what you're trying to prove.
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Aug 21, 2015 20:05
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Merdifex posted:And what am I trying to prove? Sociobiological theories have never been proven, that's self-evident when you pore over the mainstream literature. A fixed human nature as postulated by the sociobiologists, and evo-psych has never been proven to exist. If anything, human nature is adaptable, and adaptability is adaptive. Article: Maybe the truth about the Yanomami is somewhere in the middle. You: Everyone who emphasizes the role of genes in human behavior is completely dumb and wrong! Look at this article that agrees with me! I haven't read the specific people you single out for criticism, and in fact am pretty skeptical of them based on what I know of them, but you can't just cite a source that doesn't really agree with you as though it does like that. Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 21:22 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 21:14
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darthbob88 posted:As long as we're making GBS threads all over Effective Altruism, my biggest beef is the way it feels like just shameful rationalization for things EA's would do anyway. Maximizing lives saved per dollar is pretty cool, but deciding that the best way to save the world is by either becoming rich or working on a cool computer science problem rather than actually helping people is less so. 'Sides which, it seems to me that fixing global poverty would be a necessary step to fixing any higher problems; more people trying to avert an AI apocalypse or build space stations can only help, and by some fortunate coincidence there are several billion people looking for paying work. GiveWell, at least, seems a lot more focused on fighting poverty and disease than on computer science problems.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:31
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Woolie Wool posted:This is an edit of an earlier version where "rational thinking" was in the middle with Democrats and Republicans on either side and the "crazy zones" that just happen to resemble gay pride flags at the ends. I think it was one of Scott Alexander's pitiful attempts to paint himself as a moderate above petty politics. It actually comes from this political cartoon by Tim Urban, and the point being made in context seems somewhat more complicated that "the truth is in the middle": http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/the-battle-to-lose-independent-vote.html
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Sep 1, 2015 06:32
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