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I'm working on a story that's set in a "rehabilitation" camp for troubled teens. I've been doing a lot of research, looking into the various facilities and types of camps, but (I guess for privacy reasons) none of my sources say exactly what they do beyond vague stuff like "a long hike" or "crafts" or "group therapy". Any goons ever been to one of these places, or worked at one? If so: - what sort of activities did you do? - What are the therapy sessions like? - What are the facilities like (cabins, etc?) - How closely supervised were you? - Was there an "everybody line up and take your meds" time for the kids who needed medication (like in mental wards), or is that handled privately? - Would you say the camp makes any long-term difference? If it helps, most of the characters are nonviolent offenders-- shoplifting, truancy, etc., and at least one or two have parents who just don't want to deal with them. Any answers or anecdotes are appreciated. Thanks!
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Aug 29, 2014 19:35
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bigbigtruck posted:I'm working on a story that's set in a "rehabilitation" camp for troubled teens. I've been doing a lot of research, looking into the various facilities and types of camps, but (I guess for privacy reasons) none of my sources say exactly what they do beyond vague stuff like "a long hike" or "crafts" or "group therapy". http://www.anasazi.org/ I used to work with a guy who did this. I also am acquainted with someone who went through it as a youth. Jon Krakauer wrote about it 20 years ago, and it hasn't changed much since. But then again, Krakauer wrote it so take it with some skepticism. http://nospank.net/bacon2.htm This counselor friend and I were both working in outdoor recreation at the time, and he told me a lot about his time working there. I think he did it for 2 or 3 years. Some standout details: It's a 42 day experience camping and backpacking in the desert. There are no cabins. The only thing that you really "owned" while there was your canteen, your clothing, and a bandanna. Everything else "belonged" to the community. If the kids wanted to escape (there was always at least one), they wouldn't stop them. They'd just follow them and make sure they were safe, and help them get back to camp when they ultimately would give up. In his experience, none of the kids ever made it all 42 days with their tough-guy angsty hate the world attitude intact. All the guys that worked there (this friend included) were all really experienced outdoors people and kept a very safe environment. Really minimized the risk of an activity with inherent danger. That's about all I can remember, and I hope that helps.
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Sep 12, 2014 23:34
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bigbigtruck posted:I'm working on a story that's set in a "rehabilitation" camp for troubled teens. I've been doing a lot of research, looking into the various facilities and types of camps, but (I guess for privacy reasons) none of my sources say exactly what they do beyond vague stuff like "a long hike" or "crafts" or "group therapy". I spent 4 years in different programs all told as a teenager, including two stints in 'therapeutic wilderness programs'/'wilderness bootcamps.' My knowledge on this stuff is about a decade out of date, but you run into kids who've been to tons of other programs, so you hear a lot about different programs. I've gotta run kinda soon, so this will be a bit brief, if you've got more questions or want more in depth answers, just ask, I'll check back later. Any goons ever been to one of these places, or worked at one? If so: - what sort of activities did you do? Hiking, setting up camp (building shelters, digging fire pits, digging latrines, digging sumps, etc. Played hobo games, games involving awareness, did a lot of cooking, made a lot of fires without matches or lighters, pissed on tons of sagebrushes, had run ins with wildlife and cattle, found tons of arrowheads and antlers, and did a lot of journalling. - What are the therapy sessions like? Depends a lot on the program. The wilderness programs I went to would usually have a group in the afternoon or evening depending on when we had the time each day. People would mostly check in about how they were doing or talk about things that were bothering them or try to sort out conflicts that had arisen during the day. There were also groups where people would take turns telling their life stories. Also groups where people would read letters from their parents about all the hosed up crazy poo poo they were doing. - What are the facilities like (cabins, etc?) lmao cabins, yeah right. Cabins were actually a running joke because in order to convince their kids to go voluntarily, parents would tell their kids all kinds of ridiculous poo poo about 'it's basically a summer camp, you'll have cabins and outhouses and good food.' Then they'd get out into the field and ask where the cabins were and everyone would crack up as the new person realized they were going to be sleeping under tarps and making GBS threads in holes and eating burnt, undercooked, unseasoned rice and lentils with a stick. - How closely supervised were you? Very, if you were out of sight or out of camp, you shouted the number you got when you arrived at the top of your lungs. If you didn't shout loud enough, you got shouted at until you did. Was kinda funny, too, because no matter what people were doing, they had to shout their number. Squatting over a latrine? FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVEEEEEE. Looking for firewood? FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVEEEEEE. Trying to jerk off in the 10 minutes a week you got to 'shower' (which was just standing on the opposite side of a tarp from camp with some soap and a 1.5 gallon gas can of water)? FIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEE. You get the idea. - Was there an "everybody line up and take your meds" time for the kids who needed medication (like in mental wards), or is that handled privately? Most kids got some sort of meds in the morning and evening. You'd be sitting on your mattress pads around a camp fire and the staff would just walk in a circle to each person and watch em swallow then do a visual check to make sure they weren't cheeked. I wasn't medicated personally, but probably 80% of people were. - Would you say the camp makes any long-term difference? Yeah in a bunch of ways. IMO mostly the combination of a bunch of talking and a bunch of time out in the woods/desert with zero electronics, zero clocks or watches and zero distractions kinda invariably changes people. Personally, I think backpacking and living primitively is kind of inherently therapeutic: life just gets simpler and you get a (frankly) cool and unique perspective on the modern world, as well as the absolute insanity that is the life of the average teenager. I think most kids would benefit just as much (if not more) from going on a 6 week backpacking trip. People did mellow out though, that was pretty much inevitable. The first week people spent writing 'save me' letters to their parents about how terrible the program is and how everyone is being abused blah blah bullshit. After a week or so the reality of 'i'm stuck in the loving desert making GBS threads in holes and carrying my toiletpaper around in a ziplog bag until I can send it out with the garbage every wednesday' sunk in pretty fully. Then people usually tried to make the most of it once they realized they couldn't complain their way out. If it helps, most of the characters are nonviolent offenders-- shoplifting, truancy, etc., and at least one or two have parents who just don't want to deal with them. There were not a lot of non-violent people there. Most kids were some combination of anger problems, gang involvement, drug addiction, drug selling, dangerous promsicuity or in really hosed up relationships (or often a series of really hosed up relationships), eating disorders, been badly abused and never had a chance to deal with it, hosed up academically in school and/or been expelled from schools, etc. Both in wilderness programs and in longer term schools (programs) probably 9 out of 10 kids were on no-bullshit really hosed up, seriously destructive and self-destructive paths. I've known a lot of people who genuinely had their lives saved by getting sent away, A lot of other people I knew from programs ended up dead, shot, locked up, and so on. poo poo, my friend who gave me the nickname 'mole' back then is serving life in California for murder and attempted murder.  There weren't many parents who just wanted to not have to deal with their kids. Most kids in programs had hosed up parents who were too inept or caught up in their own poo poo to be there for their kids. In most cases, getting the kids out of their hosed up living situations was actually really important. Anyways, I gotta run, hope this helps a bit, lemme know if you've got any more questions. I know there's also a bunch of other goons who have been in programs, I met a goon (in a group of 5 kids) at my first trip to a wilderness program. One of the old moderators of TCC had been there like a month before, too.
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Sep 13, 2014 00:19
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I helped write something about this years ago. This should answer your questions in enough detail to make ya vomit. Rather than summarize it for you, I'll be blunt. It's done completely outside of actual medicine, therapeutic guidelines, common sense, human rights, or due process. You have no rights as a kid in such a program, even to find an attorney or guardian ad litem. There are consistent reports of psychological abuse, physical abuse, and more often than not sexual abuse from these places. Some are worse than others in the latter dimension, but it doesn't take a lot of digging to find it. Also, often times their idea of therapy is itself sexual assault. I've heard of rape victims being forced to wear a sign saying slut or dress up and act provocatively to "work through" it in one of their group LGAT brainwashing sessions. LGATs are a big part of the captive, non wilderness programs. In a nutshell, they use emotions, exhaustion, peer pressure and mindfucks for the sake of causing breakdowns thinking the breakdown inherently causes things to get better or whatever. I don't much have the stomach to explain more than the whole make rape victims cry part but it also features poo poo like "everyone lines up, and one at a time, you pick three people out of 50 to save and scream DIE At the people you don't save" and whatnot. The fact that you're doing it 18h a day and the other 6 you do homework instead of sleep is also a big deal. Finally the physical abuse seems to hinge on 'restraint'. Think stress positions and submission holds. Welp there ya go I hate thinking about this since I've known about it and tried to talk to people about it for ten loving years and gotten nowhere since it's scary to think about an industry that fucks and brainwashes kids. We'd rather go get outraged for ourselves. PM me if you have further questions.
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Sep 13, 2014 03:13
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I'm guessing "full-time residential facilities" wasn't exactly what he had in mind. Those places are infamously hosed up, but I think there are legitimate wilderness therapy camps for troubled youth that aren't just "send the troubled/disabled away to be locked up 24/7 in a 'school' and forgotten about."
Sucrose fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Sep 13, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2014 05:57
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Sucrose posted:I'm guessing "full-time residential facilities" wasn't exactly what he had in mind. Those places are infamously hosed up, but I think there are legitimate wilderness therapy camps for troubled youth that aren't just "send the troubled/disabled away to be locked up 24/7 in a 'school' and forgotten about." You think. I'm fighting the urge to be a mega-dick about this, so I'll walk you through it. You think. I think. Where's the proof? Have you found proof? Are you just sorta making it up as you go along? You think, they're stuck. Trapped. Suffering. And they can't even have the same access to the law that someone on death row has! Is this good thinking? There's a wilderness to boarding school pipeline, and often times they're owned by the exact same people. There's nothing magical about "~wilderness~" except you're isolated, and accordingly have absolutely no way to reach the authorities, legal representation, guardian ad litem, your family, file grievances, find out your rights, nothing. Post hoc justification of an awful experience, which people are wont to do, doesn't mean it's effective, therapeutic, or anything except "I went through it and rationalized it." That's a pretty terrible model to justify anything and there's still ZERO evidence of justifying the money or the whole "kidnapped into desert so I can't run away or cry out for help" model. I'm sure some places do therapy out in the sticks. Wonderful! If they're more effective than therapy in an office, if the coercion and captivity and isolation is justified, and the rights of those children are maintained and it's voluntary, great! If it's using the isolation to coerce people into unnecessary, ineffective treatment, it's kidnapping. If I actually see statistics from a reputable group, I might be less of a dick about this. So far all I've seen is people talking about pus filled sores, physical brutality, isolation, their rights being trampled, and then shuffled off to a WWASPS captivity program. The duck test occam's razor really both say it quacks and is most simply explained as "terror and isolation so you do as they say so you don't have to suffer anymore except you don't go home you go to get quack LGAT'd by David Gilcrease."
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Sep 13, 2014 18:22
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None of that should be surprising at all. It seems pretty obvious that when you take people who don't even have rights in civilized society (children) and send them out into the wilderness with a bunch of lunatics who can do anything they want with absolutely no repercussions at all that that's what's gonna happen.
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Sep 13, 2014 19:26
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gently caress them posted:You think. If you think wilderness programs are bad now, you should have seen them 10 years ago, or 30 years ago, for that matter. They've generally gotten way gentler and much more professional in that time. Same thing with residential programs, a lot of what you've referenced are the old-school confrontation-based drug treatment programs such as Daytop, Synanon, and Elan. Synanon basically turned into a cult, dunno what happened to Daytop, I think Elan was finally (very deservedly) shutdown. Elan was a brutal clusterfuck, they mellowed out after around 2000 (they stopped making new kids with attitude problems box multiple bigger, older students one after another, for instance). Overseas programs are a massive clusterfuck. I was friends with a girl who spent two years at some program in Jamaica and it honestly sounded like lord of the flies. Still, there are plenty of programs that aren't that bad, most of the horror stories come from a handful of programs that were infamously bad for decades. I've known probably 150-200 people who have been to wilderness programs and the experience of all but a couple was that they were relatively tough, but generally run in a pretty professional way, all things considered.
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Sep 13, 2014 23:16
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Even if a program, wilderness or otherwise, is less bad there's still zero evidence they work, zero justification for having less rights in one than an inmate on death row, zero justification for the price, or for that matter, their existence. BTW, that program in Jamaica was called Tranquility Bay. It operated under the WWASPS umbrella. Guess what's still around? WWASPS. Tranquility Bay is gone, thank god, but kids who would have gone there just got sent somewhere else. Instead of wasting time with "well it was rough or gentle" or "not that bad", or "SOME PROGRAM SOMEWHERE" isn't bad, or is good, why not prove that they work, they're justified in any way at all, and don't take a titanic poo poo on the children there, and their rights?
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Sep 14, 2014 23:33
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There are a lot of studies out there on the effectiveness of different programs. The straight up behavior modification stuff has been generally refuted as ineffective (at best) and pretty seriously harmful, at its worst. As to wilderness programs, I've never had the time to read too much on their efficacy, though I'd be very surprised if they buck the trend of rehab programs generally having a 5-25% rate of people staying clean. Both most wilderness programs and most group-based residential programs are under the general umbrella of group therapy (which includes both therapeutic groups as well as an emphasis on being part of a therapeutic community). The effectiveness of group therapy has been studied (and has stood up to academic scrutiny) pretty extensively. The issue of expense is kind of a peculiar one. Most complaints with the therapeutic program industry trace back to the fact that you can't be picky about who your hire for a high stress, high turnover, rough job for close to minimum wage and no benefits. Theoretically, a lot of the problems would be minimized with better employees and better supervision, both things that would require paying employees a lot more. Honestly, I dunno how a school could be run in a good way without being expensive as hell, barring major state or federal support. I agree that they're ludicrously expensive, but I'd be more worried of one trying to cut corners to save money by far. What do you suggest parents of children who are completely out of control do? What, in your mind, would an ethically run program look like? I certainly agree that there are some seriously monstrous programs out there that should be shut down tomorrow, but, I dunno, it seems weird that you could give two shits about people trying to actually run schools and poo poo in ethical ways. I agree wholeheartedly with where you're coming from, but you could be a hell of a lot more informed about this stuff before launching into a crusade.
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Sep 15, 2014 02:23
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The-Mole posted:There are a lot of studies out there on the effectiveness of different programs. The straight up behavior modification stuff has been generally refuted as ineffective (at best) and pretty seriously harmful, at its worst. As to wilderness programs, I've never had the time to read too much on their efficacy, though I'd be very surprised if they buck the trend of rehab programs generally having a 5-25% rate of people staying clean. Both most wilderness programs and most group-based residential programs are under the general umbrella of group therapy (which includes both therapeutic groups as well as an emphasis on being part of a therapeutic community). The effectiveness of group therapy has been studied (and has stood up to academic scrutiny) pretty extensively. Please source them working and not being abusive instead of complaining about turnover and trotting out "but what are parents to do [if they don't want to be parents]?????" Maybe there isn't an alternative to "take my kid away and parent for me". That's a good thing! We already have a model of actual therapy, it's called actual therapy. We have actual inpatient therapy where the point is to get them released as soon as possible into outpatient, not keep them locked up for X months to make a lot of money. I have a big interest in ethical programs, yes, but as it's not my industry and they haven't hired me to lobby for them - or shill - I'm not going to carry water for them. I will never defend a one size fits all send them away for X months model of "treatment." It's a loving business model. X months is for training or a punishment, not treatment. Psychology Does Not Work That Way. I will never defend or encourage someone to be taken away in the name of therapy when the actual trend from actual therapists is community integration! Anyway, here's some links to further the thread: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/when-wilderness-boot-camps-take-tough-love-too-far/375582/?single_page=true http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/09/therapeutic-boot-camps-teens-still-control/
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Sep 15, 2014 03:47
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The therapeutic community approach is pretty much the world standard because it is effective and came about specifically as a means of minimizing brutality and authoritarian trends in residential programs/mental health settings. Implemented and run ethically, it is about as humane as can be and is specifically not meant to be a one-size fits all. People who are too out of control or not in need have no place in such a place. That's part of running it competently and ethically: making sure that everyone there is meant to be there. Unfortunately, as things stand, yeah a lot of programs and group homes (both private and state run) take people that they have no business taking (both those who act out far too severely as well as those who really don't need to be sent away, albeit that probably is more common in privately run schools, though I've never seen any statistics or research on that). You're conflating the lovely and unethical business practice of a bunch of programs (and the Aspen corporation, gently caress em) with an actually effective therapeutic approach that is specifically intended to be about as mild, permissive, and non-degrading as possible. Have some links to academic sources: http://cad.sagepub.com/content/50/1/88.short quote:At 5 years, those who participated in the program were significantly more likely to be drug and arrest free. Furthermore, treatment graduates with or without aftercare had significantly greater probabilities of remaining both arrest free and drug free than did ano treatment comparison group in regular work release. Dropouts also were significantly more likely to be drug free, although not significantly less likely to have a new arrest than those without treatment. http://tpj.sagepub.com/content/79/3/321.short quote:The study assessed 36-month recidivism outcomes for a prison therapeutic community (TC) program with aftercare using an intent-to-treat design with random assignment. Outcomes for 478 felons at 36 months replicated findings of an earlier report on 12- and 24-month outcomes, showing the best outcomes for those who completed both in-prison and aftercare TC programs. At 36 months, 27% of the prison TC plus aftercare completers recidivated, versus 75% for other groups. In addition, a significant positive relationship was found between the amount of time spent in treatment and the time until return for the parolees who recidivated. http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1081/JA-200058857 quote:Data for the current analyses derive from a National Institute on Drug Abuse-funded 5-year post-treatment outcome study (NIDA #P50-DA-0770) of N = 938 adolescent clients admitted to therapeutic community (TC) programs in the United States and Canada during the period April 1992 to April 1994. hell, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_community
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Sep 15, 2014 06:08
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The-Mole posted:
Can't I? It seems like if there are endemic issues of systematic abuse on children, the very first thing I become is picky. I don't know anything about this kind of program; when I was poor and underprivileged I was fortunate enough to go to camp, which is a monumentally valuable program. Outdoors is really cool and it sucks that we have priced it out of a lot of childhoods. With that said, "lets make sure our most at risk segment of the population has no capacity to contact the police" particularly alongside "and to police this program, unregulated labour with which I will provide as absolute little compensation as the law permits" is a recipe for disaster.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:22
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"A multistage therapeutic community implemented in the Delaware correctional system has as its centerpiece a residential treatment program during work release—the transition between prison and community. An evaluation of this program followed 690 individuals." A work release program, ran by the state. Great! A work release program, ran by the state, IS NOT a wilderness program, or a WWASPS/Elan/CEDU/(whatever) program! Thank you for demonstrating that ethical programs can be ran. I am glad. You did not show that wilderness programs work or that WWASPS/Straight Inc. style stuff works. You also earlier conceded that wilderness programs are more likely to work than (private) residential programs; this only shows that a state run work-release program works. Finally, I doubt that a residential work-release program is anything at all like a captive brainwash tear-release program. They live there, but they're transitioning into the community - not held captive, incommunicado, and with zero rights. They're doing work release, as in, given more and more freedom and supported. Not having it all taken away and forced to endure milieu-control quack bullshit. Fuck them fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 17:23
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CoolCab posted:With that said, "lets make sure our most at risk segment of the population has no capacity to contact the police" particularly alongside "and to police this program, unregulated labour with which I will provide as absolute little compensation as the law permits" is a recipe for disaster. It's completely indefensible and waiting for a good lawyer to make a big name for themself handling this. On the other hand, Congressman George Miller has been trying to pass legislation to regulate this to no avail for some time.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:27
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