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ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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The rightest!

Tulul posted:

No, it's not art, it's advertising. Disneyland is entirely designed to extract the maximum amount of money from you while you're there. They're not piping cookie scent up to you to enhance your experience, they're doing it to get you to buy a cookie.

It's a little bit of both, because Disney isn't selling cookies, it's selling Disney. They're not making it smell like fresh cookies so you want cookies, they're making it smell like fresh cookies to add to the greater "Disney" experience, because frankly they're not even selling cookies in plenty of places they're emitting that smell. They want you to buy into "Disney." It's just that sometimes "Disney" includes "cookies."

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ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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Kai Tave posted:

Well, the sort of person who has strong opinions re: the "true feeling" of D&D is probably the sort of person invested in D&D to a higher degree than someone who doesn't give a poo poo either way. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that people who liked 4E probably liked it for reasons that existed besides the point of "has D&D on the cover."

The thing I don't get, having seen this sort of problem expressed in the Next thread and the Catpiss thread, are people who want to run or play other games beside D&D/Pathfinder/whatever but "the group won't do it" and it's like all they can do is shrug and bear it. Just loving tell your weird elfgame friends that you would like to play a game that isn't [whatever] and that's not some totally unreasonable thing to ask of people you're ostensibly friends with. Especially if you're the GM in this equation. Playing games shouldn't be a thing you tolerate in order to hang out with some pals once a week.

This is something I myself don't get. Like, I'm gonna be introducing my friends to ttgs kinda soonish and a few asked if we could play D&D. I told them "It's like D&D but better for enogh stuff. Just trust me, it's really good," and that was that because we're friends and they're on board with poo poo.

If your friends do not trust you enough to play a non-D&D game then D&D isn't the problem.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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Ryan Dancey is a loving all star champ at getting people who absolutely know better to give him another chance to gently caress everything up all over again, and then burning all his bridges on the way out, only to somehow find a new person who absolutely knows better to give him yet another chance.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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gradenko_2000 posted:

Am I just reading that analogy wrong or are you really saying that the creation of the OGL was a bad thing? I had the impression that it was one of the better things to happen to the hobby

The OGL was the best thing to happen to 3.x. If all you want is 3.x forever (or the occasional OSR clone) then the OGL is super rad!

If you want to play a game that isn't 3.x sometimes, the OGL was absolutely terrible and destroyed most experimentation and creativity in the hobby for awhile.

Like, look at the biggest OGL fans and then ask yourself what games they play and count how many are not a variation of 3.x or terrible OSR game.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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MadScientistWorking posted:

How do people even tried argue that its progressive for the 70's? In the grand scheme of fantasy its sounds like a horrendous jump back even for the time period.

RPG.net nerds liked it and being at RPG.net makes them progressive, therefor

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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FMguru posted:

i liked the books when i was in junior high, therefore they are high literature and anyone who says otherwise is a hater

One person there heavily implies anyone who hates Xanth now and finds it troubling couldn't have enjoyed it as a kid, because to them it's literally impossible to ever have any amount of self examination.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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A) +1 swords are the worst, and they're here to stay because it's ~*~traditional~*~

B) The thing with high level play in 3e - the thing with lots of problems in 3e - is that literally you do not have to playtest it to see it, you just have to actually examine the math with any sort of rigor at all. The problem isn't poor playtesting. The problem is desperately trying to think the game where all the mechanics come down to you doing equations doesn't have to involve math.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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Tollymain posted:

who runs the grogs.txt twitter?

Some IRC goons.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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I agree that they might literally not know how to make a new player friendly edition. 5e is created by and for AD&D fans - not Basic fans. Don't forget that Basic vs AD&D was the first "edition war" and plenty of AD&D fans are still sour about it. Even though Basic overwhelmingly outside AD&D, especially amongst new players.

People keep talking about Mearls being constrained by grogs or consultants or whatever. No, he wasn't. This is 100% the game he wanted to make. It isn't built for new players because Mearls wants to remake AD&D first and foremost. And hey, if AD&D was good enough for him, surely it's good enough for everyone else?

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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I had to check and of course ENWorld immediately begins complaining not only that he unfairly besmirched the fair name of 5e and that Mearls was clearly lying about 4e selling well, but that simultaniously of course the "teacher/mentor" (as they liked to use) model was the best because otherwise you'd be dumbing down the hobby or trying to cater to outside the true fanbase.

ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Sep 18, 2014

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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The rightest!

Gravy Train Robber posted:

Relevant to the discussion about how people are introduced to D&D-

John Darnielle (of the Mountain Goats) just released his novel Wolf in a White Van, that centers around a roleplaying game. I was reading an interview with him, and he had this to say about his experience with Dungeons and Dragons:

Reminder, this is explicitly the FEEL OF THE GAME that 5e is trying to gain back.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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MalcolmSheppard posted:

To credit TSR, the company actually hired professionals in child development and psychology to make D&D more accessible. The Holmes version of D&D was the first step on the road to the red box. I don't know what WotC has done by comparison, but I don't think any professionals consulted would say "release three enormous books months apart and a box set that is redundant once you buy the books."

It continues to amaze me that we won't be seeing the DMG for a few more months. Someone in WotC's D&D branch hosed up hard.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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The fact is, most of the fun grog like DM MASK is long done with little new to replace it.

ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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If you are so loving paranoid of the "FURRIES" freak out that's like a decade old now that you can't play what is basically "Disney Animation the Game" then you have far bigger problems then Ironclaw.

Like if you are sincerely terrified that playing as any sort of animal character will lead you down a dark path into whatever it is you are imagining then you need to find either a professional or Jesus.

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ProfessorCirno
Feb 17, 2011

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Traveller posted:

Is Jesus a cat or a dog person?

Horrifying lamb/lion hybrid

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