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Obviously this is speculation and only time will tell, but I'm looking for informed opinions. Mine is totally stock and I optioned it with a primary focus on performance. I'm not looking to sell it anytime soon, but inevitably I'll want something new and will need to decide whether to sell it or garage it. For context, back in high school I sold a '67 Charger R/T for about $5000, and we all know where the classic muscle market went after that. The main reason I think it might have potential is that it was the last model year for the naturally aspirated 6.2l engine. Thoughts, figuring a 20-year or so time horizon?
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Sep 2, 2014 17:15
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Doubtful. Unless it was produced in very small quantities and ends up being featured in some sort of a movie the odds are good it will be worth $10k in a few years.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:28
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Buy a clean 6spd E60 M5 if you want something NA that will be a collectors car eventually.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:31
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That car doesn't have the same mystique that the 500E does, for example. There's no story behind it, no exclusivity, and it was introduced into a packed field of competitors which frequently beat it in comparison tests. If natural aspiration is your thing then you want to look at cars like the S2000, E46 and E92 M3, or the 997 GT3.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:57
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BlackMK4 posted:Buy a clean 6spd E60 M5 if you want something NA that will be a collectors car eventually. Agreed on that, but the E63 is what I have and what I need for practical DD driving. I'm a huge BMW fan (although it pains me to say that they seem to have lost their way a bit during the past couple of years) and my last car before the AMG was a 535i. I loved it, but it was totaled in a wet-weather lane departure on an uphill, off-camber turn about 10 minutes after an oil tanker leaked on the road. One hell of a surprise at the time. HOCs with big SUVs are not fun. The E60 M5 was actually the car I wanted as a replacement, but I just couldn't fit comfortably in it. I'm 6'7" and about 300lbs so it was tight all around, whereas the AMG is like a small cavern. Room in all directions, and the only car I've ever owned that didn't jam my right knee against the dash. I tried the E550 to save a few bucks, but it's typical MB - like driving a cloud and very boring. Just an E350 with a bigger motor. The AMG, however, is a completely different story. It's like two cars for the price of two.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:05
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Obvious answer is to trade it in for a hellcat powered anything.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:18
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Lagrange posted:Agreed on that, but the E63 is what I have and what I need for practical DD driving. So really the thread title should be "help me justify this purchase to myself" and we already have the Mercedes thread for that.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:30
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The E63 is a hell of a car, but a collectors item it is not.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:45
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Quite the opposite - AMG Mercedes seem to have the highest rate of depreciation of almost any car ever made. Cool car, but not an investment. Porsche 997 GT3 and the BMW 1M are about the only fairly recent cars that have gone up in value at all.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:08
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It's probably not going to be as collectable as say... A G55 AMG? Just putting that out there.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:12
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Voltage posted:Quite the opposite - AMG Mercedes seem All the 911 GT3 models are appreciating in value. Also add in the Clownshoe for modern cars appreciating in value too. OP you need to realize that a car bought as a collectible is pretty much the diametric opposite to a car bought to be a daily driver...routinely driving a collectible, unless it is something enormously valuable, does nothing but harm to its future value. On top of that, there is pretty much only one Mercedes made since the 500E that will be collectible in any way; the SLR. Maybe the SLS, but I'm not convinced it is rare enough or desirable enough to become a collectible in the future. MrChips fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 22:51
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Das Volk posted:So really the thread title should be "help me justify this purchase to myself" and we already have the Mercedes thread for that. Not really. I bought the car new 4 years ago, I love to drive it, I could afford it, I've never had any buyers remorse whatsoever, and I have no plan to sell it anytime soon. I was simply looking for opinions from better judges than I (witness my '69 Charger R/T debacle) of future collectability. I agree with all that has been said, I just thought that perhaps the last MY with the naturally aspirated mill might add something - e.g. the end of an era or whatever you want to call it. Thanks for your first post, though. Even my dumb rear end knows that the 997 GT3 is a future collector car, but it's just too tight a squeeze for me as all prior 911 variants have been. What about the 991 version? It's tight, but I can finally get into it, and a 911 has always been my "apex car."
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Sep 3, 2014 15:16
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Modern Mercs are cool to drive but they're not collectible, sorry. You also made the mistake of buying the last year of the w211, with the NA 6.2, which happens to get rolled like a faded hobo by the w212 5.5TT in terms of performance and, well, everything else. The first gen E63 is also known for engine problems, and you're seeing early examples ending up going even cheaper than late-year low mileage E55s. So your car's going to depreciate even more quickly versus the '12+ which will hold value much more steadily because they're apparently far more reliable and quicker to boot. Even the E55 is known for a bulletproof drivetrain, which you don't find in the w211 E63. Yours is simply bracketed by more desirable cars. So in short, no. /former E55 owner
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Sep 3, 2014 17:18
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Lagrange posted:Even my dumb rear end knows that the 997 GT3 is a future collector car, but it's just too tight a squeeze for me as all prior 911 variants have been. What about the 991 version? It's tight, but I can finally get into it, and a 911 has always been my "apex car." The 997 is most likely going to be the one to hold on to since it's the last manual transmission equipped GT3, unless Porsche decides to backtrack and release one later down the line which is doubtful at best. The 997 also has a special type of race inspired/derived engine called the "mezger" that had a completely different block than the other standard 911's, and the 991 does away with that for a new design. The 991 is a seriously awesome and improved upon model, but fanboys and collectors won't see it that way. That being said flappy paddles are pretty lame and Id get a 997 all day.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:53
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Pretty much everyone I've read/listened to are pretty confident the 911 craze is a bubble, and I agree. 911's across the board are skyrocketing, and really only things like the 997 GT3 have any basis of reality behind it. If anyone bought a mid-80's regular old 911 for an investment in the last year and a half, holy god are they gonna lose their shirt lol e- /Drive actually had a good piece on the insanity of collector auctions a while ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkC_94xLg7A&list=PLHa6PXrV-yIjVxqIG9Oj2SbqtYvf8R0f4 Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 22:29
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You guys are so negative. On a long enough timeline, almost anything will be collectible! But probably not your car, and probably not for a long-rear end time. Edit: It's an interesting question though. heated game moment fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 22:58
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Lagrange posted:Not really. I bought the car new 4 years ago, I love to drive it, I could afford it, I've never had any buyers remorse whatsoever, and I have no plan to sell it anytime soon. I was simply looking for opinions from better judges than I (witness my '69 Charger R/T debacle) of future collectability. I agree with all that has been said, I just thought that perhaps the last MY with the naturally aspirated mill might add something - e.g. the end of an era or whatever you want to call it. 20 years after the charger r/t was produced, you could get one for 5 grand. late 80s/early 90s you could get superbird/daytona for 12-15 grand. It wasn't until the muscle car bubble in the early 00s that they were worth anything. Even now unless it's better than 1 of 100 the $100k muscle cars are down to 20-40 grand. I can't see big german cars being looked at in the same reguard by our generation, and experiencing the same bubble. Your E63 will never be worth more than it is right now which is about 50% of the sticker value, and will lose another $10,000 in the next year whether you drive it or not. Unless you keep it and protect it, in 30 years it's going to be up on blocks in a wrecking yard with a mechanical issue more expensive than the car itself is worth. The 190E evo II which sold for $80,000($145k inflation adusted) in 1990 and only produced 502 worldwide can be bought right now for 50 grand. And that was a special, rare, unique mercedes from an era where it could still be fixed with a hammer and a city bus sized vacuum hose diagram. There were probably around 5000 E63 AMGs produced with the n/a 6.2, 10,000 W212 E63 AMGs between 2009 and 2015, and countless more regular E-series that look identical thanks to the AMG package on the base model cars. It was built in an era where you need a $10,000 computer to diagnose the seat heater. If you're the last man standing in 50 years with a bone stock, mechanically perfect E63 amg, it might be worth dollar for dollar what you paid for it, but that doesn't factor in inflation, maintinence, or use.
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Sep 3, 2014 23:55
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There's almost no way to correctly speculate on the future value of contemporary cars. The Superbird/Daytona is a great example. In 1969 and 1970, Chrysler couldn't give those away. The 440 cars they'd actively (sort of) try to sell, and the corporate office specifically instructed dealers to push customers away from the 426 ones. That went for all Hemi cars due to them being a homologated race engine, but especially for the wing cars because they were already a boondoggle for service departments. The biggest issue they faced regarding sales was the fact that they are U G L Y! Seriously, the wing cars are hideous, and anyone who says otherwise is letting the reasons why they became collectible cloud their judgement. In the 60's people didn't have that, and they bought based on preference, not future worth. There's stories of unsold cars sitting in showrooms well into the 1970's, and a number were converted back into Charger 500's (500's because Daytona's have the same flush fit rear glass). Fast forward to the 00's, and you have a rare car amongst all the other rare cars, the most desirable engine of the era, and most importantly to the value of the car, a time when NASCAR popularity was at its highest ever. A ton of poo poo conspired to make an undesirable, ugly, NASCAR homologation car become worth a million dollars, and if you were alive in 1969 there's zero chance you would have predicted it.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:12
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I'd love to see some articles from old car magazines predicting what will be a "future classic". You see articles like this all the time now, so surely there has to be a few old car and drivers from 25+ years ago with similar stories...
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Sep 4, 2014 00:29
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Voltage posted:I'd love to see some articles from old car I have a motor trend from 1969 and 1999 sitting on my desk, i'll give a look through and see if there's anything. here's the buy/sell from feb 1969 for starters 
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Sep 4, 2014 00:38
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They probably would have just been stuff like Rolls Royce, Packard, Imperial, Cadillac....stuff that was collectible then. As far as muscle or sports cars? Nah. Muscle cars were that era's Honda, cheap, fun cars designed to appeal to a young demographic, and the collectible car guys then were, uh, averse to that crowd. Sports cars were sort of a new concept and were viewed as something to either use as a weekend toy or race with, like now. Anyone think a Miata will be worth poo poo tons in a few years? I could buy a sweet restored MG or Triumph for the cost of a new Miata, it's not a safe bet. Now coachbuilt poo poo like Ferraris or Maseratis? Yeah, they kinda had a clue. The one that they missed was the race cars. Race cars were and are disposable, and that era had arguably the most desirable ones! Nope, they didn't care, race 'em till they croak, then sell 'em. NASCAR restoration is staring to get to be a thing and the problem they run into is a particular chassis may have been run for 5 or 6 years with different skins on it, then it was sold off to short track guys who further hacked it up. Now, when you restore that chassis, do you do it as the first body? The last? The most successful year? Winner of the most prestigious race? Most famous driver? What if the car was more famous as a dirt track car? poo poo's weird, and rich people are irrational. e- yeah see, that's what I get for taking a piss mid-post
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Sep 4, 2014 00:45
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MrChips posted:On top of that, there is pretty much only one Mercedes made since the 500E that will be collectible in any way; the SLR. Maybe the SLS, but I'm not convinced it is rare enough or desirable enough to become a collectible in the future. Eh, I can see the handful of CLK GTRs released into the wild and CLK DTMs still changing hands for a lot of money in the future… but then they did cost stacks to begin with.
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Sep 4, 2014 00:51
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Yeah, the concept of a "collector car" didn't seem to exist in the 60s. one of the editors talks about how poo poo his 54 healy was, spending more time under it than in it, and in 1969 refers to 1952-1955 sports cars as "middle aged", and spent $700 maintaining a $300 car. The rolls and bentley listed for $5000-$7000(a new thunderbird was $7000) in the back of the motor trend are now $500,000-$1,000,000 cars. StandardVC10 posted:Eh, I can see the handful of CLK GTRs released into the wild and CLK DTMs still changing hands for a lot of money in the future… but then they did cost stacks to begin with. Yeah, but you can buy an SLR mclaren now for $140k, vs it's $555k price new. Compare that to the $155k sticker on a ford GT vs the $260,000 minimum price now. Low mile heritage edition(gulf livery) cars are $600,000. One of them is a low maintinence daily driveable supercar. The other one, fuel can leak into the air conditioning. Powershift fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 01:02
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"Yeah, that's my '53 Corvette. loving piece of poo poo, slow as hell, the fiberglass cracked, and it needs some transmission work. Problem is I've owned it almost 10 years now and no one will buy the fucker. I'll prolly just junk it or give it to my kid or something."
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Sep 4, 2014 01:11
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VikingSkull posted:Muscle cars were that era's Honda Seriously, if you want to own a future collectible, find an unmolested Integra Type-R or even GSR, S2000, MR-S, or RSX Type-S or something. There will never be a nostalgia market for overpriced and unexceptional fat German cars.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:12
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That's the safe bet. What car do today's young enthusiasts want? That one in 30 years will be worth cash probably. Also, this applies to cars you had a poster of on your wall. The SLR McLaren? No kid goes apeshit over that. A twin turbo Supra or R34 GT-R? poo poo's gonna be a million dollar car eventually.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:15
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VikingSkull posted:That's the safe bet. What car do today's young enthusiasts want? That one in 30 years will be worth cash probably. A 10,000 mile supra or R34 GT-R, maybe in 30 years.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:18
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Actually, I think the current Viper may end up being considered a pretty big deal a few decades from now, especially if this ends up being the final model due to the poor sales. It's fairly low volume and is really the final holdout of elemental supercars, everything else from the Corvette on up has fancy-pants DSGs and hundreds of electronic sensors and poo poo. The very same ridiculously raw mechanical nature of the Viper that the car rags bitch about when comparing it to Corvettes and 911s might end up being what draws people to it in the future as it is in a lot of ways the last of a dying breed.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:35
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Powershift posted:A 10,000 mile supra or R34 GT-R, maybe in 30 years. Well, yeah, but with that comes the value of the base car rising as people gobble them up to build clones. Wheeee posted:Actually, I think the current Viper may end up being considered a pretty big deal a few decades from now, especially if this ends up being the final model due to the poor sales. This is a good point, the Viper is definitely the last of a breed.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:40
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The more I read this thread, the more normal I start to think I am.
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Sep 4, 2014 01:48
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Far from it, you post in AI we're all loving weird
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Sep 4, 2014 01:50
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At least we don't watch anime! But seriously don't ever buy a German car if you care even the slightest bit about resale value. Or reliability.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:05
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VikingSkull posted:That's the safe bet. What car do today's young enthusiasts want? That one in 30 years will be worth cash probably. For the last 8 years or so I've thought the bugeye WRXs are going to be worth some stacks... Doesn't at all make me want one, WRXs are loving pieces of poo poo
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Sep 4, 2014 02:08
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Wheeee posted:
Well... The E30 has become quite the hot ticket lately... But the E34 M5 of the same era hasn't caught on in terms of appreciation. Its stayed modest and increased a little but not like the E30 did. I think the larger German sedans just won't see their prices rise like their smaller siblings.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:11
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Powershift posted:
How does this happen?
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Sep 4, 2014 02:12
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The fuel is cooled by the air conditioning. I think it was here one of the goons was working on one, and to fix it you had to dissasemble half of the front end.
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Sep 4, 2014 02:19
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CountOfNowhere posted:For the last 8 years or so I've thought the bugeye WRXs are going to be worth some stacks... While the bugeye WRX will probably never be a Hemi Challenger in the eyes of collectors the WRX of any model year is by no means a "loving piece of poo poo" on any level. I don't think I'd ever buy one personally but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with them. BrokenKnucklez posted:Well... The E30 has become quite the hot ticket lately... But the E34 M5 of the same era hasn't caught on in terms of appreciation. Its stayed modest and increased a little but not like the E30 did. A large part of what is driving E30 popularity is that it was, as mentioned above with the Viper though to a much lesser degree, an elemental driver's car. They're relatively light and simple RWD cars that represent an era of BMW that their marketing speaks to but which their current offerings fail to offer. Much as the previously discussed hi-po muscle cars represent the ideal of a certain era to an older demographic the E30 represents an ideal held by another, younger, yet still aging and fairly affluent market. Today's E30 is tomorrow's Integra. Powershift posted:The fuel is cooled by the air conditioning. I think it was here one of the goons was working on one, and to fix it you had to dissasemble half of the front end. German engineering: Superficial quality with none of the quirky loveable-ness of French engineering or lusty beauty of Italian engineering with all of the lovely mechanical quality of both. Edit: I believe that the best way to determine future value for a limited-run vehicle is not simply to look at what the vehicle in question does, but what it is in relation the rest of the market and future trends. For reals, unless it's a limited-run Ferrari or similar any high-price "supercar" is going to lose value at an astonishing rate. It's been mentioned but the current Porsche bubble is a fantastic example of this: Right now the correct model run 911s are worth a fortune but this is due entirely to the nostalgia of a rapidly aging demographic and this bubble is going to burst, hard. Several years from now there's going to be a lot of people upside-down on lovely old air-cooled Porsches they picked up because they were dumb and trying to jump on a trend they didn't understand. I stand by my earlier post: If you care deeply about future value in a car purchase today find a mint condition unmolested Japanese performance car from the late-90's onward and keep it in perfect condition unless you have the money to be trading in exceptionally rare British and Italian cars in which case you aren't reading this in the first place. Also lol@OP Wheeee fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 02:39
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Wheeee posted:At least we don't watch anime! 
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Sep 4, 2014 03:42
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Here's the official MrChips' Step-by-Step Guide to "Is My Car A Collectible?" 1) Is it rare? As in, did they make fewer than a couple thousand during the entire production run? (Note, your car is NOT rare if it's just an unusual colour or if it was one of 38 that came with factory driver- and passenger-side dildos). 2) Is there a strong community of enthusiasts for this car? (in other words, Saabarus and Trollblazers need not apply, sorry). If you can answer "YES, I GUESS IT IS!" to either or both of these questions, there is a *slight* chance it will be a collectible. In fifty years.
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Sep 4, 2014 03:55
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MrChips posted:Here's the official MrChips' Step-by-Step Guide to "Is My Car A Collectible?" y all the h8?  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 4, 2014 04:01
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