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The E30 is one of those cars that I think is a bubble. It's a great car, sure, but I think scene kids are the ones driving the price up now. A nice, clean, low mile example is always gonna be worth money, but like muscle cars, the custom guys and collectible guys are conspiring to make a somewhat valuable car become more valuable than it already is. Sure, value is whatever you can get somebody to pay, but I think when you adjust for inflation, in 20 years the E30 isn't going to be all that valuable. Though in terms of modern BMW's, it's gonna hold its value better than the more computerized later cars.
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Sep 4, 2014 12:00
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MrChips posted:On top of that, there is pretty much only one Mercedes made since the 500E that will be collectible in any way; the SLR. Maybe the SLS, but I'm not convinced it is rare enough or desirable enough to become a collectible in the future. When I bought the E63, part of the AMG deal was that you get a "free" track day at one of 5 or so places around the US to basically treat a million bucks worth of cars like cheap rentals. The SLS drives great for its size, but when you climb in it's a shocking letdown. Plastic everywhere, poor fit and finish, the seats rub loudly against the back of the cabin during cornering and acceleration, the rear-view mirror is only useful as a giant obstacle to the view out front, etc. The C63 Black was by far the best car I drove, just too damned small. Also, to the folks who don't seem to get it, I didn't buy this car with any thought to future collectability, I bought it because it was one of the few platforms that I fit in comfortably at the time. I've just had some vague thoughts recently that because it was the last of the NA E63s it might have some pull in the future, and figured I'd ask folks who know collectability.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:07
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Lagrange posted:Also, to the folks who don't seem to get it, I didn't buy this car with any thought to future collectability, I bought it because it was one of the few platforms that I fit in comfortably at the time. I've just had some vague thoughts recently that because it was the last of the NA E63s it might have some pull in the future, and figured I'd ask folks who know collectability. I think a lot of us do get it -- you were burned on the Charger and don't want that to happen again. Keep in mind, though -- the Charger was sold for $5,000, which was market value at the time. Before something is collectible, it is just old. There's no way to tell with most things (obviously there are some exceptions) what will be true moneymakers in the future... and only time will tell how modern cars hold up. So I'd say just drive the balls off your E63 and enjoy it.
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Sep 4, 2014 14:21
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EVERYWHERE 
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Cars are always poor investments unless you know you can flip em for a profit. And that really only works on small reliable cars or rangers/s10 with high fuel economy. I think we are still in a bubble for at least 4-5 years minimum. What I see some stuff sell for gives me the honest "what are these people smoking and where can I get it" moments. I blame the Mecum/Barrett-Jackson fever as well. Suddenly all the old cars are worth money because some one saw a perfect example go for "big money".
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Sep 4, 2014 14:29
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300 pounds
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Sep 4, 2014 14:44
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meatpimp posted:I think a lot of us do get it -- you were burned on the Charger and don't want that to happen again. Keep in mind, though -- the Charger was sold for $5,000, which was market value at the time. Before something is collectible, it is just old. There's no way to tell with most things (obviously there are some exceptions) what will be true moneymakers in the future... and only time will tell how modern cars hold up. Yep. With the Charger it was as much sentimental as anything. Even though it drove like the Andrea Doria, I took it from cinder blocks in someone's backyard to a beastly Woodward cruiser. When I went to college I just couldn't afford to keep it. The posts here have definitely helped put the sale in perspective, though. I have definitely been driving the balls off the E63 and loving every minute of it. It's a hell of a car, and I'm not even a particular Benz fan. Don't touch anything and it's a smooth as silk luxo-barge carrying 5 comfortably on the highway, but hit that AMG button and turn off the traction control and it becomes a 2 ton race car. The transformation is amazing. Roars like an animal. It's a total sleeper, too, which makes it fun to dust unsuspecting 911s, etc. Hard on tires, though.
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Sep 4, 2014 15:12
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Lol @ OP http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3662655
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Sep 4, 2014 18:45
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Posted with a :sex: tag, no less.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:12
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The 1M is another example of a low production run car where people bought it thinking it would become a modern classic, and prices are still inflated, but the M235 eats its lunch for a lower price of entry. I'm pretty sure the car will be a footnote in a few years.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:29
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Das Volk posted:The 1M is another example of a low production run car where people bought it thinking it would become a modern classic, and prices are still inflated, but the M235 eats its lunch for a lower price of entry. I'm pretty sure the car will be a footnote in a few years. They're also making an M2, and the 1M is cartoonishly proportioned. If the M2 has an actual S code engine, 1m values are toast. Also, why didn't OP include that the car was a future collectors item in his sales post? he obviously made up his mind before he started this thread.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:36
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I'm pretty sure I will regret selling my GT-R in 20-30 years.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:50
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Yeah, he just needed internets validation. I don't mind discussing cars that could be future collectables. I'm curious to see where today's Mustang GT500 and Shelby models will end up in 20-30 odd years. They are lowish production, but I think there was more made than the previous ones. Though the Saleen Fox bodies have held value decently.
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Sep 4, 2014 19:53
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Comrade Flynn posted:I'm pretty sure I will regret selling my GT-R in 20-30 years. I doubt it. Maintenance on these cars will murder the value of high mileage cars. Even R34 GT-Rs are only 30-40 grand. R32s are like foxbody mustangs here in price and general condition. BrokenKnucklez posted:Yeah, he just needed internets validation. I don't mind discussing cars that could be future collectables. They built 23,000 07-09, and 18976 10-13 models. that's not really low production. I can't picture the modern shelbys holding their value any better than the foxbody cobras. edit: right now, 08-09 GT500s are about the same price-wise as 09-10 cadillac CTS-Vs Powershift fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Sep 4, 2014 |
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Sep 4, 2014 20:12
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Powershift posted:They built 23,000 07-09, and 18976 10-13 models. that's not really low production. I can't picture the modern shelbys holding their value any better than the foxbody cobras. Compared to the mass production of the rest of the models, it's low-ish. And too, it depends on where you are geographically located will dictate prices. In the Midwest American muscle/sports cars do better because "ain't no fureng car".
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Sep 4, 2014 20:34
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Yeah, but in the 60s-70s that was all they had. Today's car guys will be nostalgic about that fat mercedes or mitsubishi evo or that aston martin or 997 they lusted over. Fewer old car nuts, greater selection, larger production numbers, and mass-produced by ford, and the cumulative effect of the "collector car" market really means they're not going to because 300,000 cars. Right now, the muscle cars aren't really competing with anything for the larger part of the US collector car market. in 40 years, they're going to be competing with all the cars right now considered collector cars, and everything that our generation becomes nostalgic for.
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Sep 4, 2014 20:56
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Plus, look at the '60s muscle cars in a historical perspective -- big motors in midsize cars was a new thing from the manufacturers and it was hugely popular. Then the '70s came around and there was nothing but wasteland until the early-to-mid-'80s. Then electronic fuel injection and turbocharging both came about (in the mainstream, yes you can point at the 4.9 turbo Trans Am, etc., but in the mid-'80s there was a really huge jump in performance, mileage and reliability across the board). Then in the '00s the musclecar scene exploded. You had baby boomers buying up/restoring/scamming up the market and prices went crazy. Many reasons for this that won't be replicated 40 years from now -- there's not going to be a 15 year gap between cars that are worth a poo poo, for one... Either way, like I said earlier, there's no way to tell what's going to be collectable from today's market since there is no frame of reference to it. Some things from the '70s that were hypothesized as being collectable in the '90s (Cosworth Vega, I'm looking at you) have been non-starters. If you're concerned with collector's cars, you'd be best served looking at ~12-18 year old cars and taking a swing... 'cause it's always going to be a crapshoot.
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Sep 4, 2014 21:17
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meatpimp posted:If you're concerned with collector's cars, you'd be best served looking at ~12-18 year old cars and taking a swing... 'cause it's always going to be a crapshoot. My bet would be the FD RX7. Beautiful, light, weird engine and they don't seem to be depreciating anymore when in near stock form.
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Sep 4, 2014 22:35
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GT500's absolutely won't be worth the same as a 60's era Shelby, because there's 10's of thousands more of them for one, but also because guys that own them all are thinking "well, I'll keep this nice because old Shelby's are worth coin so this one will be too". It's the same as the comic book market of the 90's. The old stuff started to get crazy money, so everyone started collecting them, buying multiple copies, putting them in bags and whatnot. Now the comic book market is tanked because nothing is rare. I'll frame it this way, if Shelby's are worth retarded money eventually, my Ram Daytona is gonna be too because they only made it one year, and only made like 11,000 of them. Way more rare to start with, and people aren't saving them so their numbers dwindle every year.* *In full disclosure I actually bet the Daytona will hold value, but I'm half a mongoloid sooooo
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Sep 4, 2014 22:41
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The CLK 63 black series might end up being a collectible one day but for now I think it's a textbook example of people holding on to them because rare=valuable even though there are far better performing AMGs made since then. I could maybe see the same with some of the C63 Black series.
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Sep 4, 2014 23:08
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VikingSkull posted:GT500's absolutely won't be worth the same as a 60's era Shelby, because there's 10's of thousands more of them for one, but also because guys that own them all are thinking "well, I'll keep this nice because old Shelby's are worth coin so this one will be too". It's the same as the comic book market of the 90's. The old stuff started to get crazy money, so everyone started collecting them, buying multiple copies, putting them in bags and whatnot. Now the comic book market is tanked because nothing is rare. But bad rare stuff is worth less than good common stuff. See: that 18 mile Shelby Dakota that couldn't even get 15 Grand on eBay a while back. A one of 988 nearly new shelby "classic".
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Sep 5, 2014 00:19
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Yeah, I wasn't being totally serious, but 'Lil Reds are worth a bit, so who knows. I bought my Ram 'cause I got a screaming hot deal on it ($35k sticker, $23500 out the door), and kept it 9 years now because it's a laugh riot to drive. I don't give a gently caress what it ends up being worth, I love the big goofy fucker and despite many thoughts of trading it in over the years I'll most likely still have it when I die. Cyrezar posted:The CLK 63 black series might end up being a collectible one day but for now I think it's a textbook example of people holding on to them because rare=valuable even though there are far better performing AMGs made since then. I could maybe see the same with some of the C63 Black series. Well, if the Black Series cars are a thing from here on out the CLK63 will be valuable because it was the first, but out of CLK's, the DTM and GTR are gonna be the real money cars. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 00:34
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Technically there was an SLK black series first. But yeah the CLK GTR and DTM are ridiculous homologated race cars that barely even qualify as production vehicles. They were collectible from day 1. There's a CLK GTR roadster for sale near me, went to look at it with my dad and good lord that thing is insane. 1 of 6, they want $2M.
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Sep 5, 2014 00:55
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Aren't you the one who posted a for sale thread for this very car and then locked it and then posted it in the appropriate place? What are you actually trying to accomplish here? Gathering information to work on hagglers during your sale?
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Sep 5, 2014 01:04
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lol no he posted that after he got our opinions next time we should just act like it's a stack of gold bars and make the OP keep their shitbox
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Sep 5, 2014 01:21
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VikingSkull posted:lol no he posted that after he got our opinions Oh, that's so much more satisfying. I should look for new threads more frequently.
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Sep 5, 2014 02:29
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Cyrezar posted:Technically there was an SLK black series first. But yeah the CLK GTR and DTM are ridiculous homologated race cars that barely even qualify as production vehicles. They were collectible from day 1. There's a CLK GTR roadster for sale near me, went to look at it with my dad and good lord that thing is insane. 1 of 6, they want $2M. When the CLK DTM was new a Benz dealer near me sent out invitations for a little party they were having to show one off. This was in California - IIRC the CLK DTM was never road legal in the United States, so they weren't even selling it, just letting you come take a look at it (from a distance, of course, don't want any fingerprints on the paint.)
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Sep 5, 2014 03:20
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It's funny because in his other posts he rattles off "features" that are already obsolete/irrelevant. Ooh, it has an iPod input? Cool, too bad everything's Lightning now. A six-disc cd changer? All the convenience of having to use a slow clunky interface to use CDs, which most people don't even use anymore. (A single disc CD player was always the better option.) All the other interior features are probably standard E-class features or even features of any car made in the last 20 years. "Cruise", "interior lighting", "folding seats which yield huge storage space" etc. "Auto-dimming mirror" Volvos had auto-dim mirrors as standard at least as early as 2008. Anti-lock loving brakes? Tell me, does it have a 12v DC power outlet?  Yeah, super special collector car for sure. Better get it appraised and mothball it, in ten years it'll pull $15k at Barrett-Jackson, stone chips and all.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:32
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Well... The E30 has become quite the hot ticket lately... But the E34 M5 of the same era hasn't caught on in terms of appreciation. Its stayed modest and increased a little but not like the E30 did. I thought 8-series prices were going insane, but I checked the local craigslist and apparently I'm incorrect. The 850CSi though, and Alpina B12, add to that list of cars that they couldn't give away but whose prices have skyrocketed recently. I'm waiting for it to happen to the E39 M5 but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:51
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StandardVC10 posted:When the CLK DTM was new a Benz dealer near me sent out invitations for a little party they were having to show one off. This was in California - IIRC the CLK DTM was never road legal in the United States, so they weren't even selling it, just letting you come take a look at it (from a distance, of course, don't want any fingerprints on the paint.) http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-2005-mercedes~benz-clk_dtm_amg-coupe-used-5096220.html One for sale in CA right now. Doesn't say whether or not it's street legal but it looks like it has a plate on it. They are much uglier than the CLK63BS.
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Sep 5, 2014 16:39
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Motronic posted:Aren't you the one who posted a for sale thread for this very car and then locked it and then posted it in the appropriate place? No. I didn't post a for sale thread until yesterday. I posted the collectability thread in the wrong forum by accident, locked it, and posted it here. I wanted opinions from folks who know collectability better than I, and I got them. Thanks to those who gave useful advice. The consensus was "not collectible," and it seems that at that point it would be obvious, to even the most thick, that having received that opinion I might be less likely to hold onto it while its value tanks. I went to the local Porsche dealership yesterday, asked for a trade-in estimate for the E63 and the order window for a 991 GT3, and then started to think about how the hell to pay for it. Hence the for sale post. No skin off my back. I'll just edit the sale thread. It's effectively dead now anyway. I won't have any trouble finding a buyer locally, I just thought a goon might want it. Also, lol @ OP
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Sep 5, 2014 18:40
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Posh. Who needs a Porsche!? Now, lemme tell ya about this here 1991 SAAB 9000. They're gone, now, ya know? The prices have nowhere to go but up up up! You don't have any of that newfangled poo poo to worry about like iPod linkage, GPS with outdated navigation, or any of that. This baby is FUTURE PROOF!
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Sep 5, 2014 18:47
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What did they offer you for trade in?
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Sep 5, 2014 18:48
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Cyrezar posted:What did they offer you for trade in? $47K, which I actually thought was pretty fair for a dealer offer. I figure I could do about $10K or so more on the open market, but then there's the question whether it's worth the hassle to have all those mutants and tire-kickers dropping by, not to mention cluing them in on my address. The bigger problem is the GT3. They're obviously heavily allocated, and I just got an email from the dealer saying that January was the earliest I'd see one - and that's assuming I could come up with the scratch. The whole thing did get me thinking, though. When I was in there driving the C4S yesterday they had an immaculate 2014 Turbo with 5K miles on it for $125K. I figured I could drive it away for around $110K except for the whole "I don't fit in it" problem. It made me wonder about going the CPO route, though, which I've never done. It obviously makes more sense to buy used, but now that every car has launch control and other boy-racer bullshit I worry about reliability.
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Sep 5, 2014 19:21
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Have you considered a Miata?
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Sep 5, 2014 20:28
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Lagrange posted:I figured I could drive it away for around $110K except for the whole "I don't fit in it" problem. If you don't fit in an C4S I think you're going to be really disappointed when you actually try to sit in a GT3.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:31
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Motronic posted:If you don't fit in an C4S I think you're going to be really disappointed when you actually try to sit in a GT3. The whole sizing issue was in one of my earlier posts. I didn't fit in the 997 Turbo I mentioned (although I sure tried), I was just surprised by the price. I fit fine in the 991 CS4, though, and had a hell of a drive. It's not massive inside like the E63, obviously, but it works and I've wanted a 911 since I was a kid. If the 991 GT3 fits the same as the CS4, which seems logical, I could finally be in the game. Plus, if I decide to go CPO, then waiting awhile for some of the new 991s to be put out to pasture might be worthwhile. I still don't like the abuse potential of launch control, which is the main reason I bought the E63 new in the first place, but it is what it is. @ revmoo, I actually have tried the Miata a bunch of times. First time was in the late '80s or early '90s or something. Hell of a fun car to drive, but my head was always way over the windshield, my knees were crammed against the dash, and I got friction burns on my thighs from the steering wheel. I was one big cramp when I got out. Buying a car when you're my size isn't easy.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:15
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Yeah, i'm 6'9, and fit really well in the carerra. like, you get in and start moving the power seat back, and it just keeps going. and going. and going. then you bring the steering wheel towards yourself and it's pretty much as good as you can get for a tall guy. Are you sure you didn't accidentally try getting into a cayman? i don't fit in those at all.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:18
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Lagrange posted:I still don't like the abuse potential of launch control, which is the main reason I bought the E63 new in the first place, but it is what it is. Every car has abuse potential. I could make an argument that a powerful car with a manual and NO launch control is more of an unknown than one WITH launch control. Whether it's a high-dollar or cheap used car, the parameters are similar... Every one is unique, so find out its history, buy from the original owner if possible, and CPO allays a lot of fears.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:21
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E63 wasn't half the car the E55 was, anyway. #TORKS (whatever that is). Also Cayman...I'm 5'7", 200 lbs. of chub and I don't really fit in one. Worst car purchase ever.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:59
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Powershift posted:Yeah, i'm 6'9, and fit really well in the carerra. like, you get in and start moving the power seat back, and it just keeps going. and going. and going. then you bring the steering wheel towards yourself and it's pretty much as good as you can get for a tall guy. If you mean the used 997 Turbo I mentioned, then yes it definitely wasn't a Cayman. A hell of a piece of machinery, but not my dream car. Do you fit in the 997 Carerras? That would be impressive at your height. Are you long in the legs or long in the trunk? With the 997s I could get behind the wheel, but not comfortably, plus I was nervous about my knees contacting the dash with such force. Seemed like a recipe for new hips an a HOC. I also had to force the door closed against my shoulder, which left me leaning practically to the middle of the car. The 991 seems to have expanded in all directions, though, and it's looking like the kid in me may just get his way. @ meatpimp: you're right of course, and your advice is right on, it's just one of those personal things that isn't necessarily rational. Everyone tells me CPO is the way to go. Maybe I'll try it this time - I'm just not sure I'll see a CPO GT3 anytime soon.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:18
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