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Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Count Roland posted:

(Russia has never controlled Turkey)

Controlling Istambul/Constantinople was a dream of the pre-WW1 Russian empire, which is probably good enough reason for them due to them considering themselves to be the inheritors of the Byzantine/Roman Empire.

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Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

TeodorMorozov posted:

Not exactly. There is another branch of Buk-Ms that was modernized by Ukroboronprom (Ukrainian Defense Industry), and was intended to serve Ukrainian Army Forces only.

Uh huh.

You do realize that making a claim like this with no proof at all other than "Defense minister said so" doesn't hold up claims supported by pictures of the weapon used, maps, and other supporting evidence as well as an explanation of the reasoning that lead them to said conclusion.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

SA_Avenger posted:

I am aware that this is not how the world works right now but yeah I think standing by and waiting for the storm to pass is a better solution than war. Imho a stronger russia means a russia that will evolve eventually (it's already too much influenced by the west) get better education and eventually will become more democratic. In the long term avoiding a war is always the best solution imho. Now I don't see it's okay because it needs to feel strong, it's not just that at least in the case of Crimea that base is key for the control of the Black Sea I would not be surprised if it was the same to their government as asking america to give up on Hawaii. (not saying they aren't deluded, I just say that refusing to acknowledge that Crimea had to be secured by Russia one way or another is refusing to accept that there are different view than ours on this planet, to be honest with the way China is setting foot in Africa and the desire of India to become stronger as well right now those are the kinds of problems we will face more and more in the future) we can't just keep other countries where they are because "free world" in order to evolve other countries have to go through a phase where they feel "at ease" (economically and domestically )this is meant to cause frictions with our countries that are slowly losing their "first power" spot.

I am not so sure america's action in the middle east aren't the same as russia right now at least not in everyone's eyes. America attacked on its own (or almost) another country under suspicious reasons (probably dictated by ideology and money) despite the opinion of the rest of the "free world" and pretty much installed a puppet government after causing 1million + death. I would not be surprised that in other countries this would be seen as much worse than what Russia is doing right now. now I agree that considering our lifestyle and rules it's not the same but the western world is only a part of the world.

Well imho it's a bit like WMD, there were none in irak, the bad is done but it's harder to justify it now. Right now there are russian soldiers/volunteers who can testify they crossed nato uniforms and fought nazi's. Basically it'll be impossible to reverse that rethoric in Russia for a long time

The problem is that standing by is more likely to result in Russia's leadership (and people) deciding the West is weak and maybe it's time to bring the Baltics back into their loving embrace. Stopping Russia here is good for everybody, including Russia, since an all out war has a non-zero chance of going nuclear.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.
Wasn't what US advisors pulled in Russia back in the 90s worse than just pushing a lovely set of ideals? I remember some of them basically enriched themselves right alongside the oligarchs. There were some real problems with some Harvard professors doing that, weren't there?

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

For your enjoyment, this four and a half minute video of the Night Wolves on their way to Berlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF5IjaE5sjY

Did the Night Wolves end up trying to go through Poland or were they forced to go around?

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.
I remember a week or so ago there was a lot of twitter stuff about an all out regular army attack on a Ukrainian held town. What came of that?

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.
It's a good thing Russia doesn't have an STD problem.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Dude, Iran just joined the good guys.

Alright, the Trapezoid of Trouble then.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Gravel Gravy posted:


What about the Rhombus of Rogues?

If we throw in Caracas, Harare, Khartoum, and Ashgabat we can have the Hexagon of Hate, but I suppose that's stretching things.

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Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.
Does a helicopter/amphibious landing craft have any use for Egypt's navy? That's a bit more heavy duty and specialized than protecting coastal waters.

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