Magic: The Gathering: Megathread: Sorin & Sarkhan's Excellent Adventure

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qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Jeskai Tempo seems to be dominating today. Being a big fan of Mantis Rider before release, this makes me happy.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2014 01:09

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 15:54

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

That Legacy final was so fun to watch. Khans commons and uncommons completely wrecking Legacy is just a beauty to watch.

Bonus that the deck is actually pretty reasonable price-wise to build for a Legacy deck. I expect a lot of people to build it moving forward.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 05:48

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Serperoth posted:

drat I just looked it up and yeah it's pretty cheap overall. Fetches are currently in print, so the actually expensive cards are just the Forces, maybe the Forked Bolts too? Definitely cheap for a deck that just won a Legacy Open.

Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn, and Force of Will. Everything else in the deck could probably be bought for $150. Of course the duals are the true expense of the deck, but that's true of most legacy decks, and this one only plays 4.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 12:33

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

If Jeskai Tempo is going to be a big thing going forward, Ashcloud Phoenix is going to be a good card both in that deck's sideboard, and to bring in AGAINST that deck.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 20:04

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

I simply can't fathom deciding to buy a bunch of cards based on what showed up at the SCG Open when the Pro Tour is in like a week.

Yes, they play a lot of matches at the SCG Open. No, it is not a big enough sample size to decide what the meta is.

Technically speaking the Pro Tour is an even smaller sample size than a single SCG Open. Granted, it does have that whole "The best players in the world forming teams with the sole purpose of breaking the format" thing going for it.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 20:49

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Ashcloud Phoenix being in the sideboard of some deck at the SCG Open as a good reason to buy it.

You should not buy cards based on the meta unless you know what the meta is. If a card is clearly good on its own merits, that's a different reason to buy a card; e.g. Master of Waves.

I agree with your overall point but at the same time I'll say that Ashcloud Phoenix is both a good card on its own merits, and it's not expensive right now. So buying it seems fine.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 21:04

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

TheKingofSprings posted:

Sarkhan is way more likely to wind up the control finisher of choice die to not getting hit at all by Anger.

Why would anyone play Anger of the Gods against a control deck?

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 21:45

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Nemico posted:

Anger is very well positioned as a maindeck card right now. They'll side it out later, but there's no sense in getting the collateral damage in all of your game ones.

What collateral damage are you referring to?

The point of a maindeck is to have zero potentially dead cards in your hand. Anger doesn't meet that criteria. When people start playing traditionally sideboard cards in their maindeck purely as a guess against the potential meta, it usually doesn't work out well for them.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 22:32

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I only need one more Sarkhan to complete my deck but JESUS gently caress what is going on with its price right now? How is it reaching Nissa levels of value in a set this heavily opened?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 03:46

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Count Bleck posted:

Are you telling me to do it again?

Because I know several people who have opened more than three boxes of Khans.

I hate opening packs but I did win 3 boxes of Khans in various FNMs leading up to the set's release.

Total haul: 15 fetches, 2 Sorins, 0 Sarkhans.

I have to admit, opening an entire booster box is fun.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 06:13

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Fingers McLongDong posted:

So has anyone had any luck with mardu aggro or midrange decks or is control looking like the way to go for those colors? I can't decide which route to try first.

Mardu Midrange did come in 2nd at the New Jersey SCG Open. Could start there.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 22:01

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Count Bleck posted:

On the subject of Phoenixes, I wonder if Flame-Wreathed Phoenix is going to be any good now that theres less unconditional removal.

It probably improves a little bit, but I still prefer Ashcloud because it just has a built-in "I can't die to a single (non-exile) removal spell" whereas Flame-Wreathed doesn't have that if your opponent chooses to pay tribute.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 00:30

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

This stream is convincing me that the card will eventually get the ban hammer in Modern. It's probably too fast a combo deck for Wizards.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 05:39

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Nathan still hasn't lost a single game...

He just won through a game where his opponent had Anger of the Gods, Snapcaster Mage, Remand, Counterflux, Cryptic Command, 2 Lightning Bolts, Dispel, Electrolyze, and like 8 mana on board.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 06:46

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Can the Ascendancy deck still win against Meddling Mage and/or Chalice of the Void?

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 07:27

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Molybdenum posted:

Fog

You still die to Flesh/Blood. :colbert:

Edit: People seem to be mixing up two different decks in this thread. To clarify: Modern Jeskai Ascendancy is a Tier 1 combo deck, will quite possibly get banned. Standard Jeskai Ascendancy is a lovely gimmick deck, have fun at your local FNMs!

qbert fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 3, 2014

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 18:31

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Molybdenum posted:

Seht's tiger

The deck also plays Cerulean and Crimson Wisps. Sorry.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 18:36

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

mcmagic posted:

If my opponent casts a Hammerhand on a Monastery Swiftspear, can I Magma Jet it in response or is it a 2/3 as soon as my opponent casts his spell?

You can kill it in response. Like Heroic, Prowess is a trigger that goes on the stack, and can be responded to before resolution.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 18:44

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Went 4-1 playing Mardu Midrange. Only loss was to a Sultai deck playing Prophet of Kruphix and ALL THE GENESIS HYDRAS.

Prizing was only 5 packs but 4 of them were fetchlands! Can't complain.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 08:57

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Mortimer posted:

Standard or modern? I assume modern because that deck is actually good, but isn't FNM standard? Is the jeskai ascendency standard deck actually good

I assume he's talking about Modern because in the Standard version, there's no chance of "fizzling". In the Modern one it's extremely unlikely, but if you just draw like 5-6 lands in a row while "going off", the combo fails.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2014 00:19

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Sickening posted:

The mardu "play good stuff" deck is pretty expensive and was something I was putting together when khans was being spoiled until the jeskai build came around.

Yeah, I finally relented and started using perfect fits for the first time because I'm playing this deck and realized the other day it's actually more expensive than Esper Control was when Theros came out. Luckily, I had most of the the expensive cards already from last Standard.

Edit: Speaking of the Mardu Midrange/Control list, after a lot of testing I've come to the conclusion that Brimaz is not great right now in this format. It's fine against aggro decks, but against any green midrange deck it's nearly useless. Basically not big enough to fight through most of their threats, and even Courser is good enough of a blocker to slow Brimaz to a crawl. I'm taking them all out of my deck and playing 2 Ashcloud and 1 Elspeth instead, both cards are great right now.

qbert fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 7, 2014

# ¿ Oct 7, 2014 19:50

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

fadam posted:

Someone is going to tell you that you're being unreasonable and that "not every card is for you." I always thought this argument was horseshit though because I can't imagine anyone refusing to play a card that WotC made playable. Are there really people out there that would be sad if this or that dumbshit phase turtle had trample?

Someone in this thread or the last one told me I was being unreasonable for calling Eternity Snare a bad card, their justification being "it's removal, which makes it perfectly viable in limited."

# ¿ Oct 8, 2014 08:24

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I Love You! posted:

Basically from the moment they spoiled Cruise it should have been apparent that several formats were about to be rocked HARD because vomiting 6-7 cards to the yard by t3 is pretty much completely trivial.

And yet the majority of Modern and Legacy players were completely lukewarm on the card after it was spoiled. It was basically one guy on Star City standing up and saying, "hey guys, this card's going to be nuts," and the majority of the response was players going "Eh...maybe?" It then took another guy to actually have the courage to play it as a 4-of in the Open, where everyone else was at best hedging and playing 1 or 2 in their decks.

My point is that it's very easy in hindsight to say how obviously broken a card is in whatever format, but it's actually not obvious at all, and most people will remain unconvinced until you actually jam 4 in your deck and win a major with it. Even Rabblemaster was still cheap as dirt for like 2 weeks following Pro Tour JiN, and the card had 20 pros giving it its stamp of approval.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2014 18:45

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I Love You! posted:

Cruise is about as close to obvious as you can get. Draw 3 is a known factor. Cantrips and fetch lands are a known factor. I have no idea why people were/are resistant to this card but I've been talking it up everywhere since the spoiler was first posted and it's done EXACTLY what I figured it would, because, you know, draw 3 for 1. We've seen that card before. Really.

I honestly think we're still just scratching the tip of the iceberg with this card, though. If it doesn't eat a ban it's going to get very silly very fast in older formats.

If it was just a reprint of Ancestral Recall, yes the card would be obvious. But people looked at the card and went, "Okay it's basically a Recall...but in the mid game. Is that good enough? What if I have multiples in my opening hand? What about my precious Goyfs and Snapcasters? What if they play Rest in Peace? Magic makes my head hurt guys, I'll stick to ole trusty Ancestral Vision."

Most people cannot correctly evaluate a card until they see it post results.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2014 18:55

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

mcmagic posted:

I really think that Courser and Caryatid to ramp into Polukranos or Siege Rhino makes any kind of aggro deck pretty much unplayable in this standard.

Yep. Mono-R probably has a slightly better chance since it's faster and can compliment its swarm strategy with burn and pump spells, but aggro in general is going to have a really tough time in this Standard.

Having said that, something like a U/W Heroic strategy might still be viable, since they can swing through blockers and protect their tron dudes via "protection from" spells and Aqueous Form.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2014 20:55

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Asphyxious posted:

Villainous Wealth seems really, really good, am I missing something here? Like is it you only have a mana pool of X to cast spells from or could you literally cast every card if X is high enough? And creatures cast this way are under your control?

1) The spell is a complete gamble. You could hit the jackpot, or you could hit stone cold nothing.
2) The spell is quite expensive to be worthwhile.
3) The spell is entirely dependent on your opponent's deck. You could hit useful stuff or trash you don't need.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2014 01:01

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

A big flaming stink posted:

cmon man this is easy poo poo. Nemesis Wave.

also the wave seems pretty good in a control-style deck as a one-of finisher. Of course with control being as bad as it is right now...

My buddy won a 41-man GPT on Sunday playing Sultai Control. Aetherspouts, Downfall, Drown, Thoughtseize, Ashiok, Kiora, Nissa, and Jace. Control is actually great in a field of all midrange right now.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2014 04:50

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

meanolmrcloud posted:

Just pulled a Sarkhan on modo. Is it safe to assume that he will make huge waves at the PT and should go up a bit? 23 tickets is pretty good but I don't wanna hold onto it only for him to underwhelm and drop.

It's not safe to assume anything about the PT. Also Sarkhan is currently like, the most expensive card in Standard so even if he performs amazingly the price probably won't rise. He's as in-demand as he'll ever be right now.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2014 22:27

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Wurzag posted:

Dumb question, are morphs valid targets for spells like sultai charm which stipulates the target has to be monocoloured or does being colourless not count?

Colorless does not count. See: Ultimate Price cannot kill Mutavault.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 03:38

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Cozz posted:

What card is this referring to? I can't find one called Nemesis Wave, and Genesis Wave only hits permanents.

I think it's a nickname for Villainous Wealth.

Card nicknames are annoying. Except Taylor Swiftspear.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 05:06

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

meanolmrcloud posted:

Is this a mix format PT?

Haven't they all been that way for a while now? Anyways, it's 3 rounds draft 5 rounds standard on both days.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 16:46

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Xeom posted:

Does Ajani Steadfast's +1 ability trigger heroic?

No, Heroic specifically states when you cast a spell targeting the creature.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 18:14

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I'm confused about this scenario you guys are discussing. How are people casting Ensoul Artifact on a Skullclamp before it has a chance to kill an x/1?

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 20:02

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I've got a much less convoluted question that may be relevant at tonight's FNM.

If my opponent gains control of my face-up Ashcloud Phoenix and it dies, under whose control will it return to the battlefield face down?

The reason I'm not just assuming "the owner's control" is that the latest ep of Judgecast mentioned that if you Act of Treason your opponent's Meandering Towershell and attack, when it finally returns from exile it will return under your control permanently.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 20:12

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Nibble posted:

Not sure if this is 100% reliable, but Cranial Insertion had this answer:

And my own Phoenix question, about the following ruling on Gatherer:
If Ashcloud Phoenix leaves the graveyard before its �dies� ability resolves, it won�t return to the battlefield.

This is pretty intuitive and how most effects like this have been, but why does this work this way? It doesn't say "return it to the battlefield from the graveyard", just "return it to the battlefield", so why does it care which non-battlefield zone the Phoenix is in at all?

Thanks, although with two other responses above yours saying the opposite, I'm still as confused as ever!

As to your question, by definition a creature "dying/dies" means it's entering the graveyard from the battlefield, so that's why the gatherer ruling is worded that way. The ruling is just saying that if an effect like Rest in Peace is active when the Phoenix dies, it won't return to the battlefield.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 20:28

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Forget Duke's draft, Dezani is just getting passed everything he wants.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 21:00

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I think Dezani is going to end up with Knuckleblade, Temur Charm, Temur Ascendancy, and multiple Bear's Companions in his final deck.

This IS limited, right?

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 21:06

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

^^^ They're also streaming live on YouTube, which I've had no problems with so far.

Entropic posted:

Is he just the the only one at the table who wants to touch Blue or what?

I strongly suspect every other player at the table sat down with a heavy White/Black bias. Dezani just capitalized on playing open colors.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 21:13

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Basically the only way Dezani's deck loses is to mana screw.

Which is exactly what's happening to him.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 21:33

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 15:54

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Myriad Truths posted:

Self-inflicted mana screw; he kept a 1 lander.

Oh really? That seems...questionable.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 21:37

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