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DocBubonic posted:I think this is more a reflection of the players then the game. I've been in a SW game and its nothing like a regular D&D game. In the first adventure we were on, killing and looting was the last thing on our minds. In fact, we made a point not to destroy droids who tried to attack us. We could have looted the place we had been sent to, but it would have been a bad idea. We did this because we were following orders. We were sent to a mine to get it back to operational status for our employer. Acting like a typical D&D group would have been the worst thing we could've done. Basically Edge of the Empire is great and you should go play it.
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Oct 15, 2014 06:01
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If any game would benefit from weird gimmicky rules and physical components that don't make much sense, it's Paranoia. I am a lot more interested in this gimmicky stuff than the percentile or d20 rules old Paranoia had.
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Oct 15, 2014 07:47
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I'm pretty sure Paranoia's rules not making sense simply enhances the immersion 
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Oct 15, 2014 08:05
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My favourite prop for Paranoia has always been toy cap guns. Even without actual caps, it's so much more fun to point a physical gun at someone across a table when you're calling them a traitor.
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Oct 15, 2014 09:12
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I think the decision to move to card and trinkets is actually not just a good move for Paranoia but a Sign of Things to Come for the industry as a whole. Boardgames are pretty much killing most mainstream RPGs when it comes to design sense with exceptions only being made among independents like Apoc World - crunchier games would benefit greatly from cards and custom dice and little scoreboard and meeples etc. EDIT: Like, did anyone print out those little cards you could use for your powers in 4th Ed? Were they not just absolutely the best for helping new players figure out what they could do?
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Oct 15, 2014 18:46
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Evil Mastermind posted:On the new Paranoia: The only way this could be better By the way, the dimensions of these circles and their layout next to each other looks rather like it could fit one of these: 
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Oct 15, 2014 18:56
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Impermanent posted:I think the decision to move to card and trinkets is actually not just a good move for Paranoia but a Sign of Things to Come for the industry as a whole. Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that Paranoia's always been a prop-heavy game. Hell, I still have some of the old forms-in-triplicate. I just get worried when the first thing they tell me about the game is the props. Especially with a kickstarter; I've seen a lot of KS die because they focused on too many doodads.
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Oct 15, 2014 19:01
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Sionak posted:Ha. They've been working on this for a long while, I think before CoC 7th edition was announced. Chaosium limits how many supplements you can put out per year under their license, plus the fact that a standalone game is more marketable than a setting book.
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Oct 15, 2014 22:24
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LuiCypher posted:The only way this could be better One of the writers is writing a kickstarter at the moment where you play multiple goblins, the character sheet has a number of goblins for you to draw on
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Oct 15, 2014 23:39
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Hey DARKSEID DICK PICS, I really like your Sword of Truth thread. I was having a lot of fun with the side chat about other (mediocre) fantasy novels. Is that not cool with you? I guess I don't understand why you locked the thread.
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Oct 16, 2014 04:39
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Impermanent posted:Boardgames are pretty much killing most mainstream RPGs when it comes to design sense with exceptions only being made among independents like Apoc World - crunchier games would benefit greatly from cards and custom dice and little scoreboard and meeples etc. I definitely think that most RPGs would benefit from having more Eurogame trappings - represent your to-hit/proficiency bonus with red blocks/chits, display your HP with those flipboard number things, ready spells by putting spell cards into your hand, and cast them by laying them down on the table, remember passive abilities with index cards. Not that I would expect that an RPG should automatically include such things, but having them as separate accessories would be nice.
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Oct 16, 2014 11:02
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WHFRP3 was great because it included a heap of that stuff along with special dice. Considering that the system and setting as a whole isn't really our sort of thing, my group had a good time with it. I think the cards, cool dice, chits and tokens, assemblable tracks, etc made it a lot more fun for us than we would have had with just a rulebook and character sheets. Oh, and it's way easier to teach a brand new player to look at a card, roll dice, match symbols than it is to teach them, say, D&D. If WHFRP3 had a better organised rulebook, it would have been a joy to learn and teach it. edit: I have ripped off the tracks thing for basically everything since I played that game.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:I definitely think that most RPGs would benefit from having more Eurogame trappings - represent your to-hit/proficiency bonus with red blocks/chits, display your HP with those flipboard number things, ready spells by putting spell cards into your hand, and cast them by laying them down on the table, remember passive abilities with index cards. Any game so complex as to require so many bits and bobs is waaay too complex and should crawl back to the 90s and 00s and die there.  Somewhat kidding, but what is representing your attack bonus with little wood bits gonna accomplish that a quick glance at a character sheet wouldn't? If your attack bonus was some kind of resource pool you had to spend, sure, that could work. However, in a D&D style game it tends to be pretty static within a session, except for bonuses and penalties and constantly adding and subtracting blocks from your pile as those mofifiers change strikes me as too fiddly. The better way to fix many RPGs being too complec is to remove sone of that complexity.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:26
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Galaga Galaxian posted:However, in a D&D style game it tends to be pretty static within a session, except for bonuses and penalties and constantly adding and subtracting blocks from your pile as those mofifiers change strikes me as too fiddly. Being able to quickly manipulate little +1s and -1s was exactly what I was getting at, and yes I do agree that simply having a less complex system would also work. I think that even if the numbers don't really change a lot from session to session, it'd make the experience more visceral and help a newbie visualize the stat better than penciled-in numbers on a sheet of paper.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:38
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I'm thinking more using components as ways to introduce complexity that is easy to manage, rather than the kind of complexity that relies on memorization and similar sub-par methods of storing information. For example, if a character's encounter and daily abilities were represented by cards in a player's hands and they were played when they were used, that player would always A: know when they had used their ability and B: know what their ability does, it's right on the card. That's like the base version. But in our hypothetical system we could introduce other mechanics that make use of cards. What if a character had a set amount of encounter abilities they could use per day, but only could hold so many in his hand? So you use one and draw another. But a buff could increase your hand size, or you could have an ability that lets you mulligan, or you could represent wounds with cards ala Mage Knight, or you could have each class treat their cards a little differently. Maybe a druid class has different sets of cards for different terrain. These are all heartbreaker style options, but they demonstrate that the playspace of a card-based RPG is pretty open. Project: Dark by Will Hindmarch is an interesting one to watch in this area because he is pretty much breaking new ground using cards to create Thief-like gameplay in an RPG. (We haven't even touched on RPGs using true Euro style passive-competitive mechanics. I love the idea that the party might have little worker chits that they place on a treasure field at the end of the round in turns to determine who gets what loot. Or you could have a bunch of resources available to power spells and abilities that are claimed one at a time, but players get long-term bonuses for completing mini-objectives based on claiming resources in a certain order, even if it's not tactically advantageous to the rest of the party.)
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Oct 16, 2014 14:41
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I like reference cards a lot. Being able to pass the Emotion Matrix around in Tenra Bansho Zero is pretty drat helpful, for example. A game doesn't have to be mechanically complex to have helpful props - what else is a Playbook, really? Dread is an immensely simple game that relies on a singular prop. Marvel Heroic is far from a mechanically rigorous game, but manipulating Plot Points is complicated enough that it really helped my players to have a handout describing their various applications, and it frequently uses dice as both implements and props. Recently I invested in a poker chip set and it has a wide array of applications in "light" games - Hillfolk, for example, practically requires them. Nearly any game can benefit from well-implemented props. Even TWERPS came with a hexgrid and chits.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:51
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Just remember, the more you make your game rely on physical props the less workable it becomes to play online. Even virtual tabletops can only do so much without extensive customization and many people just use IRC or PBP.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:59
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OTOH, the more bits and bobs and gizmos a game comes with, the harder it is to pirate as a PDF.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:02
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FMguru posted:OTOH, the more bits and bobs and gizmos a game comes with, the harder it is to pirate as a PDF. I have few problems with props In gsmes, but that is definitely not the right mentality to use. A determind pirate will always find a way. Use cards? Cards get scanned. Special dice? Blank dXs and a marker. Counters? Got a tray of spare change next to my computer. (Edit) also that means YOU can't sell your own game as a PDF, losing you customers. And if you do sell it as a PDF, you've done the pirates work for em, unless you leave out print&play versions of your props, in which case, what's the point? Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 15:09
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FMguru posted:OTOH, the more bits and bobs and gizmos a game comes with, the harder it is to pirate as a PDF.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:08
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Galaga Galaxian posted:(Edit) also that means YOU can't sell your own game as a PDF, losing you customers. And if you do sell it as a PDF, you've done the pirates work for em, unless you leave out print&play versions of your props, in which case, what's the point? Never underestimate the work ethic of internet pirates. Honestly, not having a game get pirated at all should be a worrisome issue, because it almost always just means nobody cares to.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:13
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Don't most studies show pirating doesn't really affect sales anyway? I'm sure indie stuff has a much higher paid:pirate ratio than big releases but I always assumed that was just because pirates tend to download your stuff the same because it's all free to them and that even with perfect DRM you just wouldn't have seen those sales.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:55
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AlphaDog posted:WHFRP3 was great because it included a heap of that stuff along with special dice. Considering that the system and setting as a whole isn't really our sort of thing, my group had a good time with it. I think the cards, cool dice, chits and tokens, assemblable tracks, etc made it a lot more fun for us than we would have had with just a rulebook and character sheets. My group loved the cards and special dice, but felt all the rest was excessive. And yeah, the rulebook is garbage as far as clarity and organization go.
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Oct 16, 2014 16:58
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I'd say that the non-dice part of WHFRP3e was the best part, especially the tracks - those things were versatile as hell, and allowed a lot more interesting mechanics than RPGs tend to usually.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:06
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My big worry with games with frobbery is that if you lose said frobs, the game could become unplayable. And I fully admit that's just me being overly cautious. I still haven't played my copy of MH3e. I haven't even punched out the bits yet.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:21
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Yawgmoth posted:Anything worth pirating will be pirated, and no amount of DRM or proprietary bullshit will change that. It's just a matter of how badly you want to piss off your legit customers and/or how hard you want to make it to be a legit customer. Misandu posted:Don't most studies show pirating doesn't really affect sales anyway? I'm sure indie stuff has a much higher paid:pirate ratio than big releases but I always assumed that was just because pirates tend to download your stuff the same because it's all free to them and that even with perfect DRM you just wouldn't have seen those sales. Yes.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:39
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Evil Mastermind posted:My big worry with games with frobbery is that if you lose said frobs, the game could become unplayable. And I fully admit that's just me being overly cautious. This is actually my biggest worry with special pieces too, particularly things that can't be easily replaced with standard dice or are not easily print & play replaced. That said, having nice 'official' pieces can add fun to a game if their mechanics work well.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:04
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MartianAgitator posted:Hey DARKSEID DICK PICS, I really like your Sword of Truth thread. I was having a lot of fun with the side chat about other (mediocre) fantasy novels. Is that not cool with you? I guess I don't understand why you locked the thread. You can't focus on two dumb fantasy series written by neckbeards at the same time for fear of confusing the two.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:06
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I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. Like, do you do your dishes?
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Oct 16, 2014 18:12
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Impermanent posted:I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. I'm imagining a room full to the brim with old takeout containers
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Oct 16, 2014 18:13
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Impermanent posted:I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. It's not so much my ability as it is that of myself and anyone I might ever actually play with--I mean are you saying you've never lost a piece to a board game? Yes, obviously, put your toys away when you are done, but stuff gets displaced sometimes, and with RPGs the expectation is not 'here are several things you need to keep in a specially designed box'. Does WHFRP3 come with a box? I am not interested in WH fantasy so I have never examined it.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:18
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Impermanent posted:I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. Accidents and small children/pets happen. Last catan game I played ended when Catzilla demolished the island. My friend didn't find the thief pawn until he swept days later.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:20
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Impermanent posted:I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. 1. Have friends. 2. Have a game with multiple small parts. 3. Take game to a place not your house. 4a. Drop a piece without noticing. 4b. Have a piece set down somewhere away from the box. 4c. Literally anything else that might involve a small piece of plastic/paper/metal being misplaced. 5. Pack up game. 6. Go home. 7. Take game out next time you play it; realize a thing is missing! Like, do you play Settlers of Catan with dinner plates and forks?
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Oct 16, 2014 18:29
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Yeah, it was hyperbolic, but a belief that something might get lost doesn't mean that you should avoid things that could get lost. Evil Mastermind pointed out that he was being overly cautious. Also: If a cat knocks over your pieces, that isn't you losing them. You are sacrificing them to the catte gods.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:39
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Froghammer posted:The starter adventure for Edge of the Empire involves going on a fetch quest to find some infamous astromech droid that has a treasure map in its head, only it's being held by some local crimelord holed up in an asteroid somewhere near the shithole town you start in. It's basically "there are bandits, go find their hidey-hole and make them all be not a problem anymore", but with Star Wars. It's...alright, as far as adventures go. There was a lot of swashbuckling adventure and acts of derring-do, plus my Bothan Politico insulted the end boss so badly he fell unconscious. I can see how this adventure could turn into a kill everything and loot the place. In my EotE games, there's not so much acts of derring-do as mishaps and shenanigans. Like my Selonian Scoundrel walking into an Imperial base and convincing a droid that she's a bounty working for the Imperials. Not sure how she's going to get out now that she got out of there now.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:56
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Impermanent posted:I think I don't understand the POV of someone who just straight up doesn't believe in their ability to put all of the pieces of a game back together after they're done playing with it. We've lost parts of every toy they've ever owned.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:00
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The solution is not to have wild animals in your home, like cats or children. 
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Oct 16, 2014 19:04
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The solution is not to have wild animals in your home, like cats or children. The real solution is for all RPGs to be cat sized.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:22
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John Wick thought of everything.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:24
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The solution is not to have wild animals in your home, like cats or children.  True story: my older boy decided to pretend one of the treasure chits from Dungeon Roll was a "sandwich" and chewed it up. We didn't play Dungeon Roll for a while after that.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:25
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