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As a slightly related tangent, I would have paid good money to watch an angry drunken Davies call out a douche bag. I can only imagine it was nothing short of magical.
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May 19, 2015 19:24
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johntfs posted:I tend to think Juliette isn't coming back because of the nature of the swerve in the past nine episode. Juliette was a hexenbiest, and a somewhat uncontrolled hexenbiest in episodes 9-13 (yes she changed in episode 8 but only right at the end) However, aside from her dreams/nightmares, she didn't seem malevolent. I'm wondering if there was some kind of conversation like: There was some really weird vibe during the last episode with the daughter where it was almost as though they were playing it as "Juliette gets her soul back and realizes the terrible things she's done" And then they just like -- stopped.
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May 20, 2015 07:32
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Shrimpy posted:There was some really weird vibe during the last episode with the daughter where it was almost as though they were playing it as "Juliette gets her soul back and realizes the terrible things she's done" Not really, you could definitely play that last scene as suicide by Grimm.
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May 20, 2015 19:08
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ImpulseDrive posted:Not really, you could definitely play that last scene as suicide by Grimm. It absolutely was suicide by Grimm, and I don't know how it could be read any other way. If Juliette had really wanted Nick dead she'd have TKed every heavy object in the place into his head.
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May 20, 2015 19:42
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Yep. She wanted to atone for what she'd done, and she'd realized there was no way she could do right by Nick after Kelly's ambush simply by switching sides again. Death was a forgone conclusion.
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May 20, 2015 23:24
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welp I decided to watch the last two episodes tonight and...wow The penultimate was some of the worst television I have ever watched (in terms of viewing a show I actually enjoy) and the finale sort of made up for it. They killed off the King and that part just, what the gently caress was that all about? Why do they keep introducing Royals and then killing them like 8 episodes later? Do they go after high value talent and then realise that "oops maybe we should hire people that won't disappear when their next movie starts shooting" because either that or everyone gets their scripts for their 5th or 6th appearance and then just go "gently caress it, I can be doing better things"? I don't know how to feel about them finding a scapegoat for Renard's murders, especially since this seems too similar to Nick's zombie rampage at the beginning of Season 3 and everyone in here is reacting in a similar way. It is a lovely way to protect the main characters and not have them face actual consequences for their actions. I'll bet Renard won't even remember that he killed Henrietta when the S5 opener comes around in the fall. Related to the Sliders stuff, I started watching that series after I heard Rhys Davies give a very  about the potential the show had at a panel I attended some years back. Hearing you guys talk and me doing some reading, I now understand why he was so bummed (and watching the first season as well) and disappointed, such a waste of a concept
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May 23, 2015 09:16
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Aces High posted:I don't know how to feel about them finding a scapegoat for Renard's murders, especially since this seems too similar to Nick's zombie rampage at the beginning of Season 3 and everyone in here is reacting in a similar way. It is a lovely way to protect the main characters and not have them face actual consequences for their actions. I'll bet Renard won't even remember that he killed Henrietta when the S5 opener comes around in the fall. Renard didn't commit any murders. He was the murder weapon, not the killer.
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May 23, 2015 11:27
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Jedit posted:Renard didn't commit any murders. He was the murder weapon, not the killer. Yeah in the case of Renard it's different than Zombie Nick. Renard literally had no control or awareness of killing the people he did, in any sense. And, considering the person who originally killed him was in cahoots with the royals, pinning it on one of them is totally fine with me.
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May 24, 2015 13:57
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It is still on Renard, and too an extent, Nick. Renard knew he was blacking out and robbing people, but instead of going to his Mom (yea yea, she is difficult to contact), Henrietta, The Spice Shop (tm), or Nick, he let it get out of control. Just like so many of the drat wesen they have jailed or murdered. Because whatever "human" part of them is incapable of suppressing some inside/outside/supernatural force. One of my biggest problems with this show (absent this abomination of a season) is that Nick's Grimmness comes and goes seemingly without any real moral foundation. He pulls the "but I am a cop!" card often, insinuating he is bound by these rules/laws he swore to uphold. Then not 3 seconds later he is badge-is-at-home badass. Who, conveniently, tends to gain the superpowers the writers ignore about constantly until they don't. I just don't like them saving blue rare wesen who commit poo poo, then making others die of lack of water, and blah blah all under the pretense of law and order, yet discard it when it sounds like a good episode. No continuity or sense to it.
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May 27, 2015 20:30
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JD Bucks 7 posted:One of my biggest problems with this show (absent this abomination of a season) is that Nick's Grimmness comes and goes seemingly without any real moral foundation. He pulls the "but I am a cop!" card often, insinuating he is bound by these rules/laws he swore to uphold. Then not 3 seconds later he is badge-is-at-home badass. Who, conveniently, tends to gain the superpowers the writers ignore about constantly until they don't. The whole "We can't arrest him, but I don't want to kill him because I'm a cop!" thing gets pretty ludicrous. Yeah Nick, man up and kill them. Or they could have tried something with the Wessen Council. Like "Hey I have those rogue Wessen over here, and I'm wondering if you guys want to stick him in whatever Wessen jail you might have. We're holding him at some warehouse we rented." But I guess that would require world building and something to actually loving progress with the Wessen politics. This show is so afraid to commit to actual detail on that stuff and can't keep what it has done straight.
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Jun 1, 2015 22:18
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Blazing Ownager posted:
They actually did a version of that with the Krampus guy. It sort of feels to me as though the writers have written a whole shitload of extra stuff in their heads that somehow doesn't make it to the page or screen. An example of this would be the Wesen Council's decision to put a bounty on Nick. Maybe in the writers' heads there was a pro-Wesenrein faction of the council that was infuriated at what happened in Portland. Then, the next episode, the Grimm "allowed" evidence of Wesen existence to leak onto You-tube. So, the pro-Wesenreiners used that to stampede the other members into putting a hit out on Nick. Except that stuff never made it into the episodes. Instead, we go from the Council having a fairly cordial working relationship with Nick to sending somebody to try to murder him with no real explanation. johntfs fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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Jun 2, 2015 08:58
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johntfs posted:Except that stuff never made it into the episodes. Instead, we go from the Council having a fairly cordial working relationship with Nick to sending somebody to try to murder him with no real explanation. Yeah, that was pretty baffling. They put out the hit on Nick apparently just for asking "hey, did you send this guy to assassinate Wesen breaking Wesen law?" At that point, it was just Nick asking, he hadn't yet arrested the guy yet. Still though, they did show the two Wesen Council guys we'd already seen hearing the decision of the rest of the council and saying essentially "what a stupid decision that was, but oh well, we were outvoted..."
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Jun 3, 2015 13:15
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Yeah, that was pretty baffling. They put out the hit on Nick apparently just for asking "hey, did you send this guy to assassinate Wesen breaking Wesen law?" At that point, it was just Nick asking, he hadn't yet arrested the guy yet. They've really not addressed it well as they could, but from the presented backstory for 1000 years Grimms have killed all Wessen they meet and have at best a working hostile relationship with the Royals and the council but now Nick is a Grimm openly working with and becoming entrenched with the local Wessen community and if that mentality starts to spread suddenly you have the best Wessen killers in the world working with their Wessen buddies and taking no poo poo from old school Wessen outsiders and now you're left with pockets of civilization who spit in the face of antiquated Wessen laws and have no problem killing Coucnil agents coming in trying to enforce their own brand of law. It's a pretty great concept, especially since Trubel was introduced. Nick being literally the first Grimm to take a measured response to the situation and say "gently caress tradition, people are people, I only care that the law is respected" made a great launching point for the series.
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Jun 3, 2015 13:30
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pentyne posted:It's a pretty great concept, especially since Trubel was introduced. Nick being literally the first Grimm to take a measured response to the situation and say "gently caress tradition, people are people, I only care that the law is respected" made a great launching point for the series. And after a few seasons:  Photo should be S5 OP. fake: That's actually the best photo of a dumpster fire I've ever seen.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:27
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So I just watched the finale.. Why did they fake the head thing and take Kenneth into police custody if they were going to drive him somewhere and kill him? They could have just quietly kidnapped him, but instead there is a police custody trail that ends with a dead guy who never made it to the station. They could say he got away somehow, except they need to pin the ripper murders on him, which means they have to point the police to where Kenneth was killed. I feel like different people wrote different parts of this episode without anyone reading the whole thing. Safe to say I'm done with Grimm.
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Jun 4, 2015 12:52
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protocultured posted:So I just watched the finale.. Why did they fake the head thing and take Kenneth into police custody if they were going to drive him somewhere and kill him? They could have just quietly kidnapped him, but instead there is a police custody trail that ends with a dead guy who never made it to the station. They could say he got away somehow, except they need to pin the ripper murders on him, which means they have to point the police to where Kenneth was killed. I feel like different people wrote different parts of this episode without anyone reading the whole thing. Safe to say I'm done with Grimm. Because the show has become a quote:
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Jun 4, 2015 20:57
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protocultured posted:So I just watched the finale.. Why did they fake the head thing and take Kenneth into police custody if they were going to drive him somewhere and kill him? They could have just quietly kidnapped him, but instead there is a police custody trail that ends with a dead guy who never made it to the station. They could say he got away somehow, except they need to pin the ripper murders on him, which means they have to point the police to where Kenneth was killed. I feel like different people wrote different parts of this episode without anyone reading the whole thing. Safe to say I'm done with Grimm. I assumed Nick through there was a shitload of powerful goons with him (since they took his mom out), and his small group couldn't do it alone. Also his boss can help cover poo poo up/frame him, and he owes him bigtime.
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Jun 5, 2015 20:45
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PowerBuilder3 posted:I assumed Nick through there was a shitload of powerful goons with him (since they took his mom out), and his small group couldn't do it alone. That's probably how the whole thing will be handwaved away, but it's still ridiculous. Renard was already freaking out about the investigation, so clearly he doesn't have enough power to simply make it go away. Kenneth looked nothing like Renard, so that gambit would fail as soon as they showed a picture to their key witness. That leaves the option of either paying off the witness and hoping she stays bought, or making her disappear. There's no other evidence tying Kenneth to the crimes except what looks like a clean scalpel in his pocket (which, absent blood from one of the victims, is circumstantial at best). Not to mention that even if they somehow succeeded in framing Kenneth, there's still the matter of how a suspect in a high-profile murder case went from being firmly in custody in Wu's cruiser (which, as we saw like two episodes ago, is remotely tracked via GPS at the precinct) to being stabbed to death in an industrial park. The Police Brutality Duo might just snicker about it, but the mayor probably wouldn't be quite so amused. Hell, that doesn't even touch on the rest of the mess. There's at least one fresh headless corpse lying around somewhere in Nick's neighborhood (whose blood and hair is all over the trunk of Wu's cruiser), not to mention several entire families apparently missing (or confirmed dead, depending on how much effort the royal goon squad put into cleaning up). There's some mansion in a fancy gated community out in the hills that's chock-full of dead people killed in all kinds of exciting ways. The body of a foreign head of state (who just so happens to be the father of their dead "serial killer") is probably going to wash up on the beach before too long. And eventually someone's going to miss Juliette (just not the viewers!  ) and start asking questions. That's quite a trail of dead and/or missing persons that all lead straight back to Nick and company in one way or another. And god knows what poo poo the Faux-FBI black-ops bird squad is about to toss into the fan. At this point there really shouldn't be any hope of covering everything up.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:25
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dennyk posted:Hell, that doesn't even touch on the rest of the mess. You're out of your mind if you think this show will commit to challenging even one of your well-reasoned critiques.
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Jun 18, 2015 22:52
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Transmodiar posted:You're out of your mind if you think this show will commit to challenging even one of your well-reasoned critiques. Haha, of course not. Which is too bad, because it might have been interesting to see Nick and some of his friends actually have to go on the run or into hiding, or at least have to deal with all that real-world fallout in some meaningful way. Instead I'm guessing it will all be handwaved away and the fake FBI Wesen will spirit Trubel away offscreen in the episode one cold open so we can get right back to some more Adalind + Nick + baby drama. 
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Jun 18, 2015 23:28
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Still holding out hope that kid winds up bleeding down the inside of Adalind's thighs. Or else takes a dive into the bottom of a well after it's born. Heeeey they could feed it to La Llorona! She was looking for some kids, right?
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Jun 19, 2015 00:02
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Accretionist posted:
After some time from the finale, I honestly can't even imagine coming back to a show sans Juilette with loving Adalind made central. That sounds like pure poo poo. If Trubel isn't main cast out of the gate, next season may break me, and I've stuck through some bad poo poo on TV. dennyk posted:Hell, that doesn't even touch on the rest of the mess. There's at least one fresh headless corpse lying around somewhere in Nick's neighborhood (whose blood and hair is all over the trunk of Wu's cruiser), not to mention several entire families apparently missing (or confirmed dead, depending on how much effort the royal goon squad put into cleaning up). Yeah, that's going to be dumb when they hand wave it. "An entire block was massacred, including the girlfriend and mother of a police officer" is the only story that can be sold, and that's going to prompt some loving questions. That's "national news and event people will talk about a decade later" level of questions. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 00:42
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Uh, what?
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Jun 22, 2015 19:54
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That looks like the cover of some drugstore romance novel
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Jun 22, 2015 19:56
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NBC does not give a gently caress as long as numbers get put for ratings.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:15
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Azhais posted:That looks like the cover of some drugstore romance novel They need to hire whoever did the terrible photoshopped posters for True Blood. At least then it will be obvious that it's a joke/they have no clue what they are doing.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:49
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pentyne posted:NBC does not give a gently caress as long as numbers get put for ratings. If the ratings don't do a grand canyon for this season, I'll be shocked.
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Jun 23, 2015 11:09
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Oh wow, the show got even worse from what I ever thought it would be from that preview pic (I stoppped right at the evil Juliet plot starting and just gave up and read some spoilers). I really don't understand all of the positive internet reviews... I guess I made a good call giving it up. Good luck with the Adalind show guys. ashez2ashes fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 13:23
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ashez2ashes posted:I really don't understand all of the positive internet reviews... I dunno, money changing hands, reviewers good friends with people involved, reviewers scared of a "twitter backlash" from their followers, people not wanting to accept something they used to enjoy has jumped the shark, or just plain old bad taste in tv... I can think of plenty of reasons, though I have no idea the real cause (this show is objectively bad now, right? Or are we the ones in a bubble? Nah, I trust what I've seen with my own eyes, it's bad.) I come from a country where Eastenders (god drat it to hell) is really popular. People sometimes eat poo poo and say it's cake to not feel stupid about it  I have seen a couple of good reviews of this show's recent episodes, but has anyone actually taken it to task and ripped it a new one? That's something I'd enjoy chuckling to.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:15
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Not so far as I've seen. Hell, on youtube people were even squealing with delight at the thought of Nick and Adalind co-parenting her rape nugget.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:46
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Bitsie Tulloch is still really pushing the show on her Twitter. Bitsie Tulloch seems like a supremely decent person and I hope her upcoming Will Smith movie kicks her career into the ionosphere.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:57
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johntfs posted:Bitsie Tulloch is still really pushing the show on her Twitter. Bitsie Tulloch seems like a supremely decent person and I hope her upcoming Will Smith movie kicks her career into the ionosphere. Calling it now: Adalind is going to redeem herself by finding a way to bring Juliette back from the dead.
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Jul 21, 2015 08:35
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I'd always admired the show for not doing the cheap thing and killing off the girlfriend for angst which I was sure it would do when I watched the series premiere. Killing the girlfriend for angst AND bringing in a baby character are pretty dire signs that a show has run out of ideas.
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Jul 21, 2015 12:34
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ashez2ashes posted:I'd always admired the show for not doing the cheap thing and killing off the girlfriend for angst which I was sure it would do when I watched the series premiere. Killing the girlfriend for angst AND bringing in a baby character are pretty dire signs that a show has run out of ideas. As bad as all that is, the "characters disappearing between episodes off-screen due to obvious behind the scenes problems" and "We literally keep forgetting every plot we start, I mean, who the gently caress cares about keys anymore right???" are pretty bad signs, too. They can't even get people back to shoot a death scene. Keep in mind that Renard actually considered using being shot to leave the show, but they threw more money at him, too. And I guess they couldn't even afford the newcomers for much screen time, with characters like Truble disappearing for most of the season. I mean, I'm not exactly up on Hollywood gossip/news but I've never seen a show scream "WE HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS BEHIND THE SCENES!" as much as this one in the last season. It's like there's some corporate mandate to leave every single plot element twisting in the wind while pushing harder after increasingly stupid Wessen-of-the-week. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 12:36
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ashez2ashes posted:I'd always admired the show for not doing the cheap thing and killing off the girlfriend for angst which I was sure it would do when I watched the series premiere. Killing the girlfriend for angst AND bringing in a baby character are pretty dire signs that a show has run out of ideas. The term you're looking for is "fridging", which I think applies here.
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Jul 21, 2015 12:51
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Cactus posted:The term you're looking for is "fridging", which I think applies here.
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Jul 21, 2015 14:57
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I was hoping she'd become a wildcard character. After defecting to the royals she'd quickly find that they don't have her best interests at heart and she'd start to cause poo poo for them as well as the good guys, and become her own entity with her own goals and interests who everyone has to take seriously because she's powerful as gently caress. Of course not. Kill her off and use her death to make Nick more motivated to be a better grim. Or whatever.. shitshow.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:12
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Mars4523 posted:The show had the perfect opportunity to turn Juliette into an active participant in Nick's fight. That'd make too much sense, however, so instead they thought that turning her evil and killing her AND Nick's awesome mom was the way to go. Now, because the writers' room is just full of ideas, they're probably going to hook Nick up with his rapist for some sitcom family drama. Collaborative writing staff is such a good thing. Vince Gilligan was all set to have Walter White accidentally kill his son with an elaborate SAW level shotgun trap in the first season, for example, but he's wise enough to get group consensus which was pretty much "What the gently caress are you thinking, that's dumb as poo poo!" and he wisely went with it. Where as I'm getting the impression there's someone coming in on Grimm and demanding "More Adalind, or you're fired! Oh by the way three of our actors quit."
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Jul 22, 2015 23:21
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Get excited, y'all. A fellow goon may appear in this coming season premiere of Grimm! I'll be in the background for an FBI office scene.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:34
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ETB posted:Get excited, y'all. A fellow goon may appear in this coming season premiere of Grimm! I'll be in the background for an FBI office scene. Does your character kill Adalind and her unborn child, so the show can get back on track?
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Sep 1, 2015 19:11
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