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asur posted:Where have you heard this? My personal experience and everything I've read is contrary to that. Google supposedly has a standard offer and they'll increase that if either your past salary is higher or you have a competing offer. I'm not in favor of companies asking for salary, but Google doesn't appear to use it to lowball people. My sources are myself and that other poster. For me they were incredibly insistent, they acted like they couldn't give me an offer at all until they knew my current salary. It was complete BS too and got more and more irritating the longer the recruiter dragged it on. This was like a few months ago. MrMoo posted:I generally understand that when I'm asked "what is your salary now?" they have no idea what they should pay. A big company like google has poo poo tons of information at their disposal. On the other hand, you have almost none. They have exact numbers on thousands of employees, you have anecdotal information from internet forums that could be inaccurate or out of date. Also, in this particular case, it's google which makes its money on information -- they can probably get a real good ballpark idea of what you're making presently if they wanted. Sex Bumbo fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 03:24
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Sex Bumbo posted:My sources are myself and that other poster. For me they were incredibly insistent, they acted like they couldn't give me an offer at all until they knew my current salary. It was complete BS too and got more and more irritating the longer the recruiter dragged it on. This was like a few months ago. Your source that they lowball people is that they ask for your salary? The other poster is proof that they don't use it to lowball people as he doubled his compensation without a competing offer. I'm not arguing that they don't ask, I'm arguing that Google is pretty much a special case where it doesn't hurt you. asur fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 03:27
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asur posted:Your source that they lowball people is that they ask for your salary? The other poster is proof that they don't use it to lowball people as he doubled his compensation without a competing offer. I'm not arguing that they don't ask, I'm arguing that Googlw is pretty much a special case where it doesn't hurt you. That's just anchoring... this is the entire problem, as an individual (whose job is unrelated to hiring people) you're susceptible to a zillion psychological errors and the other person is pulling on all these strings. Going "wow I just doubled my salary what a great deal" is exactly what they want you to think because you're just basing it on your old lovely salary. What if they were making twice the google salary? Then suddenly the offer seems lovely and awful. But it would be literally the same salary. What you would really want to know is if you're getting an offer similar to other qualitatively similar people. And you have no idea about that. This is also why asking current salaries exacerbates pay disparities -- if one demographic makes statistically less on average for the same work and they go into a new job, they need a much higher salary boost to level the playing field. If you just give everyone some % relative to their previous salary, the pay disparity persists. Sex Bumbo fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 03:31
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Sex Bumbo posted:What you would really want to know is if you're getting an offer similar to other qualitatively similar people. And you have no idea about that.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:07
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Sex Bumbo posted:My sources are myself and that other poster. For me they were incredibly insistent, they acted like they couldn't give me an offer at all until they knew my current salary. It was complete BS too and got more and more irritating the longer the recruiter dragged it on. This was like a few months ago. This is right in line with the thing I posted 2 pages back about how google offers work, from a former principal recruiter, if you can believe the internets. Infinotize posted:https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-tips-for-negotiating-a-compensation-package-at-Google/answer/Bob-See
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Aug 5, 2016 22:40
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Sex Bumbo posted:What you would really want to know is if you're getting an offer similar to other qualitatively similar people. And you have no idea about that. Sure you do. This thread is one of the many ways to get that sort of information
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Aug 5, 2016 23:39
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It didn't look like this got posted: http://www.mass.gov/governor/press-office/press-releases/fy2017/governor-baker-signs-bipartisan-pay-equity-legislation.html tl;dr: companies won't be able to ask for your salary history during the hiring process. It's a huge deal for women but also pretty great for us in tech so I'll count it as a net good. The law goes into effect 7/1/18.
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Aug 7, 2016 14:40
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Lone_Strider posted:Not at all, they could restructure or completely do away with bonuses which would leave you in a bad spot if you started relying on them. My current employer tried to make the same argument, but we met half way with higher base pay, but lower bonuses Yeah, but, to be fair, they could just as easily cut your base salary. Sex Bumbo posted:All articles seem to say sharing your current salary is a bad idea. It seems like nothing good is going to come from it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and they're like "do you know what you were doing wrong?" and your natural instinct is to be nice and helpful but you're really just incriminating yourself. On the other hand, going through several interviews to find out whoever you're talking to wants to pay considerably less than you're making sucks. RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 7, 2016 19:35
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You can still tell them your salary history or expectations.
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Aug 9, 2016 18:04
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sarehu posted:You can still tell them your salary history or expectations. History provides a chance to at least guess at trajectory, though, no? I mean if you started at 50k a few years ago, then moved to a 65k seat, and now you're at an ???? job but are asking for 95k, the math isn't *exactly* hard to guess at.
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Aug 9, 2016 23:36
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What I mean is, you can tell them your current salary. They can't ask but you can tell. (It would be unconstitutional otherwise, even the "don't ask" rule seems to me like a game of 1st amendment chicken that shouldn't hold up under a sane court.)
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Aug 10, 2016 00:56
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sarehu posted:What I mean is, you can tell them your current salary. They can't ask but you can tell. (It would be unconstitutional otherwise, even the "don't ask" rule seems to me like a game of 1st amendment chicken that shouldn't hold up under a sane court.)
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Aug 10, 2016 02:18
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sarehu posted:What I mean is, you can tell them your current salary. They can't ask but you can tell. (It would be unconstitutional otherwise, even the "don't ask" rule seems to me like a game of 1st amendment chicken that shouldn't hold up under a sane court.) They can still ask everywhere except Massachusetts, as of a few weeks ago.
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Aug 10, 2016 02:55
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ShadowHawk posted:Eh, the law is pretty settled on plenty of other "illegal hiring questions" like what your national origin is. You can't prevent candidates from attaching a photo to a resume, but many companies will just throw the photo out before moving it along. You can ask national origin. You just can't discriminate based on it.
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Aug 10, 2016 04:12
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sarehu posted:You can ask national origin. You just can't discriminate based on it. I'm pretty sure that's on the list of stuff they're not allowed to demand. You can voluntarily pony it up (you know, stuff like race, disability, and whatever) but they can't hold it against you if you pick "I choose not to answer." Of course they're going to anyway but you know. It's kind of lovely scenario, really; it is, for example, proven that companies, despite not being allowed to discriminate against the disabled, do all the damned time. The crux of the problem is proving it. Well hey we had like seven great candidates we just happened to not pick the black guy or the disabled guy.
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Aug 10, 2016 05:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I'm pretty sure that's on the list of stuff they're not allowed to demand. You can voluntarily pony it up (you know, stuff like race, disability, and whatever) but they can't hold it against you if you pick "I choose not to answer." They can ask, and you can say "I choose not to answer," and they're not allowed to discriminate based on national origin. And the fact that they asked could be used as evidence against them in a lawsuit, because, like, that's how court works. And they could try to put up a defense that they weren't discriminating on national origin, they rejected you for "being too chickenshit to answer a simple question," and then we'll see what the majority of the jury decides. But they can definitely ask. People often innocently ask about national origin of candidates when, like, saying hi or talking over lunch with the team, and that alone is not something you can sue over. You have to convince a jury that they discriminated against you, not that they asked you a question.
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Aug 10, 2016 05:41
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sarehu posted:They can ask, and you can say "I choose not to answer," and they're not allowed to discriminate based on national origin. And the fact that they asked could be used as evidence against them in a lawsuit, because, like, that's how court works. And they could try to put up a defense that they weren't discriminating on national origin, they rejected you for "being too chickenshit to answer a simple question," and then we'll see what the majority of the jury decides. But they can definitely ask. People often innocently ask about national origin of candidates when, like, saying hi or talking over lunch with the team, and that alone is not something you can sue over. You have to convince a jury that they discriminated against you, not that they asked you a question.
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Aug 10, 2016 07:25
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Got out of a 3mo coding bootcamp in NY, took a job at 105k at a start up lol. Hope it doesn't fail, I get dental.
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Aug 25, 2016 00:49
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Coolie Ghost posted:Got out of a 3mo coding bootcamp in NY, took a job at 105k at a start up lol. Hope it doesn't fail, I get dental. Is this your first tech job / did you have an education beforehand / were you in the industry before this?
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Aug 25, 2016 02:33
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Necc0 posted:Is this your first tech job / did you have an education beforehand / were you in the industry before this? Yes, no, and no. I took upper level math courses in uni and a basic C++ course, but ended up with a BA. Pre-bootcamp I did some MIT OCW basics and maths. My old job was getting spit on by special Ed kids.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:19
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edit: lol pocket posting
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Aug 25, 2016 18:20
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Coolie Ghost posted:My old job was getting spit on by special Ed kids. You'll be surprised how useful this experience is for having the right mindset to be a software engineer.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:21
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Have fun learning about the wonderful world of startups! Might as well keep going at this point.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:04
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Coolie Ghost posted:Yes, no, and no. I took upper level math courses in uni and a basic C++ course, but ended up with a BA. Pre-bootcamp I did some MIT OCW basics and maths. My old job was getting spit on by special Ed kids. drat congrats man. I've always been skeptical of the claims made by those bootcamps
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Aug 25, 2016 22:55
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I did a six month camp and am making $80k in Denver in Test Automation with a major online retailer. Incidentally I was also in SpEd before.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:36
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Necc0 posted:drat congrats man. I've always been skeptical of the claims made by those bootcamps Thanks, guy! I did appAcademy, which has a high filtration rate and deferred tuition. They're taking a nice slice of my salary but it feels like they earned it. I was definitely geared towards it going in tho. Probably the best career move I ever made. I know a guy who did general assembly and he joked the entrance exam question was "how crisp are your hundreds?"
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Aug 26, 2016 00:46
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Boot camps are important for a few things: networking, rooting yourself in a particular area, and having something to point to that (ostensibly) says "yes, I am in fact competent". It's like what people assumed college to be like in the real world back in the late 90s.
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Aug 29, 2016 14:19
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Is there still an actual salary share being updated here?
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Aug 30, 2016 14:17
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Kind of surprised this thread doesn't take a yearly poll
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Aug 30, 2016 22:23
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Is it just me or does payscale.com seem to really lowball its salary estimates? I don't think I'd accept an offer at any of the "average" numbers it spits out.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:09
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rt4 posted:Is it just me or does payscale.com seem to really lowball its salary estimates? I don't think I'd accept an offer at any of the "average" numbers it spits out. They're user-provided, but, on the other hand, they also require you to enter something befroe seeing any results. Which may allow them to collect more data, but probably not better data.
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Sep 3, 2016 15:25
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