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There are on occasion companies that do pay out their bonuses on target, but they tend to have substantially lower base compensation as well as really, really boring (read: stable) contracts or other forms of revenue that barely depend upon the realities of the world. I've been at two companies that did it, but the typical case for companies is to use bonuses when things are going well and give an excuse for not giving out any when things go bad. At a point I'd wish some of these companies were honest, but honesty doesn't get you very far in business anymore.
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Jul 6, 2016 21:13
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Anyone know what a normal sort of salary is for an entry-level job in Central London? I ask because I'm starting to get asked about my salary expectations at interviews, and was headhunted by a recruiter the other day who asked the same question. For reference I'm sort of a programming generalist with experience in a range of languages (although only C++ to what I'd consider a professional level) and a developed interest in creative / research approaches to computing. The roles I'm going for are mostly in production, research, and programming roles and I find start-ups most receptive to my generalist background. At the moment I'm using my TA salary and a position I interviewed for as a basis which'd put me right around £30k, but this seems like it might be a bit high. Anyone know about this?
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Jul 7, 2016 01:07
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Purple Prince posted:Anyone know what a normal sort of salary is for an entry-level job in Central London? I ask because I'm starting to get asked about my salary expectations at interviews, and was headhunted by a recruiter the other day who asked the same question. For reference I'm sort of a programming generalist with experience in a range of languages (although only C++ to what I'd consider a professional level) and a developed interest in creative / research approaches to computing. The roles I'm going for are mostly in production, research, and programming roles and I find start-ups most receptive to my generalist background. I don't think that's necessarily too high and you may be able to get a bit more although salaries here always surprise me. Some listings on Stackoverflow jobs will include salary ranges, so that may be helpful. Seems like anything finance related always pays more here and I imagine there are a number of jobs utilizing C++ in that industry. Probably more so than start ups.
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Jul 7, 2016 12:30
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What's a typical salary for an engineer with ~2yrs experience in Boston? Adjusted for living 'round Eastie or so. I'm wondering whether I should ask for a salary increase at my next review.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:39
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Where you choose to live does not adjust the salary.
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Jul 8, 2016 02:17
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I have 1 year of experience, work in Boston, and get paid 90k
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Jul 8, 2016 14:23
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sarehu posted:Where you choose to live does not adjust the salary. I'd figure it would? 90k in Boston is like 60k in Jacksonville when you take differences in housing costs into account. Series DD Funding posted:I have 1 year of experience, work in Boston, and get paid 90k Do you also live in Boston, or further out of the city? Do you do web development or something like embedded or devops? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 15:44
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Pollyanna posted:Do you also live in Boston, or further out of the city? Do you do web development or something like embedded or devops? Yes, in Boston, and I work on a distributed filesystem for large-scale media storage
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Jul 8, 2016 16:47
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There's a difference between adjusting salaries between regions (where the overall CoL can vary, not just salary) and adjusting it because you've chosen to live in a cheaper or more expensive neighborhood. A company can't expect you to move from Boston to Jacksonville and stay at the same job, because the salary isn't enough to cover housing. But they can expect you to live within your means within the Boston area at the salary you're receiving. In general, it's a bad idea to bring up housing or family-related costs during salary negotiations. To a business a salary is about paying you what you're worth, not about how much money you need.
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Jul 8, 2016 17:25
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Pollyanna posted:I'd figure it would? 90k in Boston is like 60k in Jacksonville when you take differences in housing costs into account. Where you live in the region doesn't matter, just the CoL region you are in. This is like the reverse of the BS when hiring managers/recruiters try to sell you on a new job or crappy compensation by saying "you're working all the way out at X, this pay cut is fine because your commute will be shorter here!"
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Jul 8, 2016 20:07
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Just got an offer for 88K in Denver. 25% matching on 401(k) up to 6%, bennies, yadda yadda. I will have 4 years of experience in November.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:00
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That seems very low to me for Denver (I'm at 120k for reference) what industry/position is that?
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Jul 9, 2016 01:09
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Infinotize posted:Where you live in the region doesn't matter, just the CoL region you are in. This is like the reverse of the BS when hiring managers/recruiters try to sell you on a new job or crappy compensation by saying "you're working all the way out at X, this pay cut is fine because your commute will be shorter here!" Alright. So the typical pay rate is 90k~100k for Boston as a whole?
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Jul 10, 2016 04:25
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Pollyanna posted:Alright. So the typical pay rate is 90k~100k for Boston as a whole? It seems like big city pay never keeps up with big city cost of living. If I moved to Boston for $90k, I'd be taking a $30,000 pay cut, according to a couple of cost-of-living calculators I found online. I wonder if there are any cities in the top ten or so where the average salary in [big city] is actually a cost-of-living-adjusted raise from the average salary in [smaller but still reasonably large city].
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Jul 10, 2016 11:11
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Centripetal Horse posted:It seems like big city pay never keeps up with big city cost of living. If I moved to Boston for $90k, I'd be taking a $30,000 pay cut, according to a couple of cost-of-living calculators I found online. I wonder if there are any cities in the top ten or so where the average salary in [big city] is actually a cost-of-living-adjusted raise from the average salary in [smaller but still reasonably large city]. Seattle, even with the double digit rent increases. Non hyperbole since 2011 salary in tech is up 22% for rent increase of 7% from some article linked in this or another thread in the last week.
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Jul 10, 2016 14:37
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Pollyanna posted:Alright. So the typical pay rate is 90k~100k for Boston as a whole? I'm not sure about that and I don't know Boston, there are too many variables there to say "Boston dev pay is ~100k." I'm just saying if you work in Boston it The city cost of living thing is a double edged sword, on one hand, the percentage pay cut in a smaller market area could be more than offset by way cheaper cost of housing and other things and you can Live Live A King/Queen and stuff. On the other hand with higher compensation areas you pay more for housing but the price of other things like cars and goods stays the same and you have increased buying leverage and save more in absolute dollars. Again too many variables to say one way or another. Infinotize fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 19:07
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Centripetal Horse posted:It seems like big city pay never keeps up with big city cost of living. If I moved to Boston for $90k, I'd be taking a $30,000 pay cut, according to a couple of cost-of-living calculators I found online. I wonder if there are any cities in the top ten or so where the average salary in [big city] is actually a cost-of-living-adjusted raise from the average salary in [smaller but still reasonably large city]. CoL calculators are still useful, but you have to think about how much you'll actually be spending in different areas of your budget.
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Jul 10, 2016 20:34
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Cicero posted:Using cost of living calculators in that way only makes sense if you're spending all your money on stuff influenced by cost of living. There's other stuff that's basically the same price nationwide: media (e.g. games, music, online subs), basically any durable consumer good (e.g. cars, electronics, random household stuff), long-distance travel (actually this is probably cheaper in big cities because you won't need as many connecting flights). You also have to factor in how much you'll be able to save if you don't think you're settling down there permanently; if you're going to eventually move, the absolute savings amount is more important than the proportional savings amount. And that's even assuming CoL is accurate - it comes from a static basket of goods, and as you note that can be very different from actual consumption habits.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:02
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Also keep in mind that these salaries are pre-tax. NYC has good developer compensation but lots of people I know are paying 30-40% to the IRS. A $2K/month 1-bedroom is actually $36K pre-tax which is ½-¼ of their on-paper salaries.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:23
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That at least does reinforce the CoL argument. With only a few exceptions, the tax man doesn't care that SF is more expensive than Des Moines, and your taxes will be proportionally quite a bit higher; that extra salary is all taxed at your previous marginal rate or worse.
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Jul 11, 2016 15:59
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rjmccall posted:That at least does reinforce the CoL argument. With only a few exceptions, the tax man doesn't care that SF is more expensive than Des Moines, and your taxes will be proportionally quite a bit higher; that extra salary is all taxed at your previous marginal rate or worse. The tax man in Sacramento does though. States with income tax and sales tax like NY and CA are extra things to take into account.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:42
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Used cars are notably not the same cost across the country. Most used cars that don't sell at dealers go to auctions in lower cost areas like Phoenix by used car dealers in CA then shipped to be sold at higher prices. Arbitrage totally happens for pricier consumer goods. $1000 in CA is the same currency in Podunk, Nowhere. If you can make $500k in a city and rent is $10k, it beats the same job for $50k and even $500 rent. Furthermore, flyover cities tend to just not have competitive software companies. MSPs and datacenters or other commoditized IT services are common, which also caps potential earnings unless you're an executive.
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Jul 11, 2016 17:15
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Hughlander posted:The tax man in Sacramento does though. States with income tax and sales tax like NY and CA are extra things to take into account. Yeah, this is an important thing to remember: the standard CoL methodology in the U.S. (C2ER) excludes consumer-visible taxes like sales, income, and property tax.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:59
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In my travels on the internets I found this post and thought it interesting: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-tips-for-negotiating-a-compensation-package-at-Google/answer/Bob-See tl;dr: At "some companies" (e.g. google in this case per a former principal recruiter), they require current compensation info before making you an offer, as in will drop your process if you're not willing to provide it. Considering that goes against the 99% of standard negotiating tactics advice (never say a number!!), I wonder how many companies operate this way. It's probably slim pickings but does anyone have first hand knowledge of places that operate like that? It always seems like a game of chicken with holding out on providing this sort of information. edit: I'm really only talking about direct, company-employed recruiters here, not headhunters. Infinotize fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 23:35
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Infinotize posted:In my travels on the internets I found this post and thought it interesting: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-tips-for-negotiating-a-compensation-package-at-Google/answer/Bob-See I'm glad I didn't interview at Google. Don't name a starting number applies more to non-huge tech companies and junior people. If you're senior and being paid well then it is probably to your advantage to name a number because they know you are unlikely to move for a downgrade in pay. If asked your preferred salary, name a number 30-40% higher than what you make even if you tell them what you make. Simulated fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 05:00
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Infinotize posted:In my travels on the internets I found this post and thought it interesting: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-tips-for-negotiating-a-compensation-package-at-Google/answer/Bob-See It's only a game of chicken if providing your current comp can negatively impact you. If you take Bob See at face value then providing your current compensation to Google never hurts you as they have a base offer they give regardless of current comp and ask for current compnto raise that offer if necessary. This would make Google an exception to the standard advice and I've heard this from multiple sources so I'm inclined to believe it. One thing to further consider is when they ask. My experience with Google is they asked at the end of the process right before providing an offer and at that point if a company refuses to continue unless you provide a number you might as well provide one as the vast majority of the work is complete and you can always refuse the offer.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:36
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asur posted:One thing to further consider is when they ask. My experience with Google is they asked at the end of the process right before providing an offer and at that point if a company refuses to continue unless you provide a number you might as well provide one as the vast majority of the work is complete and you can always refuse the offer. I just had my in-person interviews at Google yesterday and they asked for my current salary ($65k) in a form that I had to fill out prior to arranging travel. I put "underpaid, underutilized" as reasons for wanting to leave my current company. I'd almost need my salary to double in order to afford to live in the Bay Area with the same space I have now, and I really don't want to give up having 1 bedroom for my computer and 1 for my bed.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:15
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Stinky_Pete posted:I just had my in-person interviews at Google yesterday and they asked for my current salary ($65k) in a form that I had to fill out prior to arranging travel. I put "underpaid, underutilized" as reasons for wanting to leave my current company.
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Jul 13, 2016 04:24
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Hughlander posted:Seattle, even with the double digit rent increases. Non hyperbole since 2011 salary in tech is up 22% for rent increase of 7% from some article linked in this or another thread in the last week. Really? I actually had Seattle as "too expensive even with the higher salaries" in my mind. That's interesting. A 22% salary increase versus a 7% rent increase sounds pretty good, but that depends on where both of those figures started at. Cicero posted:Using cost of living calculators in that way only makes sense if you're spending all your money on stuff influenced by cost of living. There's other stuff that's basically the same price nationwide: media (e.g. games, music, online subs), basically any durable consumer good (e.g. cars, electronics, random household stuff), long-distance travel (actually this is probably cheaper in big cities because you won't need as many connecting flights). You also have to factor in how much you'll be able to save if you don't think you're settling down there permanently; if you're going to eventually move, the absolute savings amount is more important than the proportional savings amount. That's a fair point. I generally focus on rent, utilities, and groceries when I am researching potential moves. "Money left over after paying to maintain the same lifestyle I currently have" is the metric I am most interested in. Edit: asur posted:One thing to further consider is when they ask. My experience with Google is they asked at the end of the process right before providing an offer and at that point if a company refuses to continue unless you provide a number you might as well provide one as the vast majority of the work is complete and you can always refuse the offer. Is that a thing that happens? There have been times where I have not been interested in providing my current salary to a prospective employer. The only time I remember a company playing hardball with me on that issue, I told them to pound sand. I had already told them how much I required to work for them. What my current employer was paying me was none of their business. Just because the place I'm at now is getting me at a discount doesn't mean I am going to let you do the same. They made an offer within days, but I wasn't going to work for a company that basically tried to bully me during the interview process. Centripetal Horse fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 04:45
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Centripetal Horse posted:Really? I actually had Seattle as "too expensive even with the higher salaries" in my mind. That's interesting. A 22% salary increase versus a 7% rent increase sounds pretty good, but that depends on where both of those figures started at. The Seattle area is having an ongoing residential construction boom, is probably why.
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Jul 13, 2016 15:11
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ShadowHawk posted:If you join Google in Mountain View you will likely be making triple that within 2-3 years even if you come in at the new grad level, although a good chunk of that will be in RSUs and other cash-equivalents like 9000 dollars of 401k match.  Now I really hope I get it!
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Jul 13, 2016 16:54
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Stinky_Pete posted:
Yeeaaaah Google is difficult to get into but if they give you an offer absolutely don't turn it down. They shower their nerds in gigantic piles of money.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:00
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I don't have an official offer yet, but I'm waiting for hiring managers to schedule calls with me so I can pick my team and in the meantime my recruiter gave me some news from comp: 2 years experience, I gave them my current salary ($65,000), and the base salary that I'm expecting ($100,000) They told me base $100,000, which makes me wonder if I low-balled them Plus 15% bonus assuming standard performance, 15k/yr Plus 100 stock vested over 4 years, 19k/yr at current price so ~$135,000 total
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Aug 4, 2016 16:52
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Stinky_Pete posted:I don't have an official offer yet, but I'm waiting for hiring managers to schedule calls with me so I can pick my team and in the meantime my recruiter gave me some news from comp: And yeah telling them your current and expected salary that way was probably not a great move.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:02
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Cicero posted:Is this for a SWE position? That does seem low, particularly the stock. Yeah it's for software engineering. Not much I can do now, just waiting to get a schedule of calls with hiring managers still. They say that salary negotiations are slanted against women on average but I guess I'm breaking the modesty stereotype by being male. Just like how the ostensibly sexist A/C makes me feel cold Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 21:47
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All articles seem to say sharing your current salary is a bad idea. It seems like nothing good is going to come from it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and they're like "do you know what you were doing wrong?" and your natural instinct is to be nice and helpful but you're really just incriminating yourself. Google seems especially nasty about leveraging your past salaries to underpay you.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:15
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I'm YOTJ'ing and honestly I haven't faced much "what are you making now?" so far, at least in the few jobs I've had some calls and talks about so far. I'm underpaid drastically, and I know it(hence looking for moves) and people are hardly flinching when I quote them in the range(either salary or hourly) that lands at like 95-105 annually. I can't tell if I'm doing it wrong or right  Especially since that's around a 30% pay bump for me.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:12
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I generally understand that when I'm asked "what is your salary now?" they have no idea what they should pay.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:01
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MrMoo posted:I generally understand that when I'm asked "what is your salary now?" they have no idea what they should pay. The big problem is that everybody wants good programmers but even bad programmers are expensive. If you find a sweet gig paying $150,000 a year they'll have a drat hard time convincing you to leave without offering something better. On the flip side if you're making $50,000 but are worth $150,000 they can possibly offer you $80,000 and get you on the cheap. There just aren't enough developers in the world so the price keeps going up but good luck doing anything at all these days without software being involved somehow.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:26
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Sex Bumbo posted:All articles seem to say sharing your current salary is a bad idea. It seems like nothing good is going to come from it. It's like when a cop pulls you over and they're like "do you know what you were doing wrong?" and your natural instinct is to be nice and helpful but you're really just incriminating yourself. Where have you heard this? My personal experience and everything I've read is contrary to that. Google supposedly has a standard offer and they'll increase that if either your past salary is higher or you have a competing offer. I'm not in favor of companies asking for salary, but Google doesn't appear to use it to lowball people. asur fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 03:12
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