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Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

gnarlyhotep posted:

and none of that changes anything

If you dislike the American system for choosing leaders, devise your own and start a movement to adopt it. If enough people like it, you can get the Constitution amended with your system.

But then that's going to require running a political campaign to build popular support for it, then asking people to vote for your stuff. Then the Illuminati who actually control all the elections will have to kill you to make sure your reforms are never enacted.

But since voting doesn't matter, there's no point in doing all that anyway.

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Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Quidam Viator posted:

YOUR loving SYSTEM IS BUILT TO RESIST RAPID CHANGE AND THE WORLD IS RAPIDLY CHANGING.

Why is this so hard to understand? Does nobody have ANY urgency at all?

Governmental systems that are not built to resist rapid change tend to spiral into chaos and self-destruct in pretty short order.

Resistance to rapid change in government is also a lot of fun just because it's so annoying to ideologues who demand instant gratification.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

bpower posted:

I presume that photo was found and published by some sort of of hacker. I mean the idea he thought that was a good thing to publish is laughable.

https://twitter.com/GovWalker

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

V. Illych L. posted:

it is a terrible feeling when you realise that you are legitimately much smarter than powerful elected officials. like, "could do a better job by that attribute alone"-smarter. goddamn

That was actually one of the big things that came out of the Watergate scandal. Prior to that people tended to put politicians on a pedestal and assume they were made of sterner intellectual and moral stuff than everyone else.

Then Nixon's tapes came out, and everyone could hear for themselves what a bunch of petty morons were running the country. National politicians haven't gotten the same level of deference since.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

V. Illych L. posted:

when de Gaulle wanted a french regiment to liberate Paris Eisenhower was like "ok but it has to be all white frenchmen"

de Gaulle then had to mix and match because he didn't have an all-white regiment

eisenhower was poo poo
they were all poo poo

Eisenhower made up for it with the 1958 Civil Rights Act, though.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

redreader posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Presidential_IQ_hoax#IQ_estimations_by_academics
(there was a hoax, but there are actual estimates of presidential iq here) looks like GWB has 125-130 iq. The dude is not at all dumb, but he's one of the dumbest presidents. This really surprised me since I thought GWB had an iq of like, 105 max.

Yeah, Walker has a really dumb face. Not sure if he is actually dumb since all I know about him is people saying he busted unions.

:stare:

"Histometry" is essentially the invention of one guy with no actual scientific basis. It's as credible as phrenology. He could just be making up numbers out of thin air and no one would know the difference as there is no way to cross-check his results with another methodology.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

gently caress You And Diebold posted:

I don't think anyone has said it would happen within a couple years. A lot of this hope is Texas shifting, which will still probably take a decade or two. The meantime demographic shifts don't exactly help republican's with a national election. Especially since their base can't shut up about just how much they hate those minorities.

The GOP coalition has a lot of factions that really dislike each other and have widely disparate policy goals. They've held it together with racism and complete opposition to everything Obama does, but once he is off the stage they are likely to start eating each other.

The right has cultivated enough hatred of Hillary that they may be able to hold it together for a while, but they can't afford to alienate 90% of women the way they have every other demographic this isn't white. The next few years will be turbulent for them, anyway.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Chris Christie posted:

I know it's early and the MAINSTREAM MEDIA needs something inconsequential/stupid to bark about and make hay out of, but I can't help getting giddy over the idea that Democrats would be dumb enough to run away from Clinton, and toward a dumb-rear end like O'malley no less.

After 2008 and 2012, it would be nice to be the one doing the hysterical laughing instead of nervous laughing during the primaries.

Nobody is running away from Clinton. The email thing is a minor blip and will fade away despite the Republicans' best efforts to paint as the worst scandal in the history of United States politics. You've been watching too much Fox News.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Obama would never have supported a public option, that was off the table from the beginning.

The main difference would be an earlier economic recovery due to increased federal spending and stimulus earlier on, and fewer self-inflicted disasters -- shutdown, sequestration, etc.

Obama would have supported whatever he had the votes for. He deliberately left the details of it alone so that it wouldn't be "his" bill, making it too easy for Congress to run away from it.

I agree with you on the rest.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Do Not Resuscitate posted:

I get where you're coming from and I agree to a certain extent, but this issue is actually "a thing" and isn't bullshit. Now, it may be possible to make it seem like bullshit by successfully marrying it to the GOP's three-mile-high opp file on the Clintons, but there are some serious questions about the email server that should be addressed.

No, it is actually nothing. She broke no laws, and possibly not even recommendations. It's certainly not a good thing, but lots of people of both parties have used private email servers while in office so it's not even particularly unique.

It's just the latest shiny thing for the anti-Hillary crowd (left and right) to chase after.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Do Not Resuscitate posted:

I don't know how you say this with certainty as we have yet to learn about the entire set-up.

Questions that I have, just off the top of my head:

1) Was clintonemail.com email subject to FOIA requests while Clinton was SOS?
2) If so, who performed the review to determine which emails were producible?
3) Were any national security laws broken by hosting this material privately?
4) Were any intrusions or hacking attempts made on the server?
5) Were they successful?
6) What security safeguards were in place?
7) Who administered the server?
8) What was their security clearance?
9) Why were the emails not turned over to State upon Clinton's departure?

and so on...

Nobody gives a poo poo about the answers to any of those.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Arkane posted:

Assuming Hillary Clinton runs and loses the primary, who is the Democratic nominee? Is O'Malley really the only legit option here? I cannot possibly imagine Biden winning. He's 73 next year, will look 80, and he acts like he is 8. Senility could be an improvement. Elizabeth Warren would have trouble attracting moderates in purple or non-blue states. Does Gore make a go of it? Any dark horses?

So you're assuming Hillary runs and loses the primary to no one.

If she loses, the nominee will be whomever beats her. Apparently Republicans require this sort of thing to be explained to them.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Arkane posted:

So...who?

If the answer to that was obvious, Hillary wouldn't be considered the presumptive nominee at this point.

There is this guy named Oback Barama, though. He was actually born in Mozambique but the Democratic Party made up some fake birth notices that they planted in a local paper 50 years ago just in case they needed somebody to beat Hillary again this cycle. Keep an eye out for him.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

TEAYCHES posted:

It's a symptom of a sick political system when you start nominating candidates from the same families.

I guess our political system has been sick for about 190 years, then. The disease does not appear to be fatal.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

GlyphGryph posted:

Trumps supporters will largely not care in the slightest if Trump pivots on policy, because most of them do not care about policy, especially conservative policy, they care about anger or spite or presentation and Trump can easily pivot in terms of policy while still keep those things the same. All he needs to do is focus on talking about generally popular stuff and people that do care about policy will continue to assume that his intentional vagueness means that in reality he supports whatever it is they want to believe he supports.

There's a reason his supporters praise him for "telling it like it is" despite nearly everything coming out of his mouth being bullshit. He's selling a fantasy like any good conman, and knows now to work a crowd. They will continue to hear what they want to hear regardless of what he actually says.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

uncurable mlady posted:

Kasich won't be the VP pick for Trump or Cruz because they'll probably try to get a woman VP

Thankfully, Sarah Palin isn't busy these days.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Joementum posted:

If Cruz thinks he can beat Donald using reality TV show tactics...... boy, I dunno.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Top Bunk Wanker posted:

Just saw a Ted Cruz commercial and a Club For Growth #NeverTrump commercial during the Blues/Blackhawks game on Fox Sports Midwest. Can't imagine they're hitting a lot of Indiana voters with that one, but maybe they know something I don't.

Given all we've seen thus far, the answer is almost certainly that they don't.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

rakovsky maybe posted:

If they're all innocent women and children who have been thoroughly vetted, then Trump's rhetoric will not turn them into terrorists so your entire point is invalid. We can talk about them however we want, they have been predetermined as safe.

You turn them into terrorists by shunning them, keeping them isolated and rejected by mainstream society. That will ensure that the kids grow up good and alienated so then they'll be ripe for recruitment and strapping on a bomb vest.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Gyra_Solune posted:

i thought hillary was supposed to be getting like +30% over trump and it was going to be the biggest blowout in any general election for now and forever

+11% looks patently normal

+11% would be the largest MoV since '84. Obama won by less than 4% in 2012 and it was an electoral blowout.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Thump! posted:

But isn't Trump trying to win the election? :confused:

I honestly don't think so. He loves the attention and jerking everyone around, but I don't think he really wants to be President and stuck in the confines of Washington for four years.

He would much rather lose so he can storm off in a huff, accuse everyone of sabotaging him, and get back to firing people on TV.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

oystertoadfish posted:

contingency is weird

like how the right wing party in the us got the blame for the great depression, but that didn't have to happen

i think the contemporaneous story in the uk was that the left wing party happened to be in charge, so they got the blame for the great depression and the conservatives got to gently caress around for the '30s

a lot of things are hard to predict but i think the collapse of the new deal coalition in the civil rights era was going to happen eventually. maybe it would've taken until '84

No, Hoover properly took the blame for making it far worse than it needed to be. He spent 3 years cutting spending and trying to balance the budget, which just sent the economy into a deflationary tailspin.

He was doing what any good businessman would do in such a situation. Too bad the government isn't a business and it was exactly the wrong thing to do. GDP started growing again when Roosevelt took office and started his 100 day plan.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

oystertoadfish posted:

if the democrats do somehow get the house i hope they ram through DC statehood and PR if theyre up for it

PR doesn't want to be a state. The residents of DC should get to vote as citizens of Maryland.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Pillowpants posted:

I'm not sure that the republicans can pivot from calling Trump hitler to supporting him

Calling him Hitler was meant as a compliment.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

oystertoadfish posted:

i remember i was whining about how stupid american politics were to an italian coworker back in, i dunno, 2008? and she was like 'this is nothing by italian standards'

wonder what she thinks now

Italy under Berlusconi would be a decent model for what the US under Trump would look like.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

L-Boned posted:

I need to purchase a MAGA hat. Should I go for the traditional red, or go crazy with camo, white, or black?

Get the Union Jack pattern.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

logikv9 posted:

other than adding superdelegates, what other changes could the republicans make to their primary process to more easily shut-out candidates like donald trump?

Proportional allocation of delegates in state primaries would help.

Better yet, dump primaries altogether and go back to smoke-filled rooms.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Karl Sharks posted:

Eh, I think he means "a candidate has to have held public office as a republican before" at the very least, which would have disqualified trump

Yeah, I don't think including (and enforcing) a statement as to the minimal requirements to be considered for the party's Presidential nomination is at all unreasonable.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

mannerup posted:

lmao at the site he links in the statement

http://www.98percentapproval.com/

and the survey linked there

http://www.98percentapproval.com/uploads/Bob_Guillo_Survey.pdf




Hmmm. Googling "Bob Guillo Trump University" got an interesting result:

Trump University Customer: 'Gold Elite' Program Nothing But Fool's Gold

quote:

Guillo paid nearly $35,000 to be part of Trump University's "Gold Elite" program, taking money out of his individual retirement account to pay for it. It was a decision he would come to regret.

"At first it was embarrassing," Guillo says in an interview with NPR. "Then I became very, very angry that the man that scammed me out of all that money had the audacity to run for president. And I'm still angry."

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005


Since when does anybody listen to Reince Priebus?

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Zeroisanumber posted:

They aren't going to take it away from him unless he does something obviously disqualifying.

What "obviously disqualifying" means at this point is anyone's guess. P. sure he could whip out his dick on national TV and announce that if elected he's selling all white babies to the Chinese to be ground up into dogfood and still pull 51% of white men.

IMO they won't take it away from him directly, rather that Trump is more likely to just say "gently caress this poo poo" and walk away, if it happens at all.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

weekly font posted:

I'm genuinely curious about his Hillary dump on Monday. Is it just gonna be emailsemailsbenghazi or is he gonna pull some deep cut conspiracy theory bullshit and go real off his rocker?

There's a new anti-Hillary book out that he's going to quote from extensively, it looks like.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

TyrantWD posted:

Trump won't walk away, and the party won't take the nomination away.

Conducting himself in a dignified, and respectable manner is only going to get more difficult from here now that the Democrats are set to unleash their full assault on the Trump campaign. Obama and co. are going to bait him into making more outrageous comments, and he is not going to be able to help himself. A lot more Republicans seem ready to go down with the ship than I would have expected, but I think you will see 90% of the party ride the Trump train to whatever end. Trump could shoot an innocent disabled kid on live TV, and Paul Ryan will still say keep his position and say something like "I was appalled by what I saw, and would never condone that sort of behavior, but I will be supporting the nominee in November".

That's why I added "if it happens at all."

The only way the GOP can get out of the Trump disaster is for him to walk away willingly before the convention, on good terms. That's the only way to avoid the RNC turning into a riot and them coming up with some sort of alternative reasonably amicably.

There's a non-zero chance of that happening, but it's not large nonetheless.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Pook Good Mook posted:

Gosh, imagine how much more believable this would have been coming out just after their presidency ended instead of during a presidential campaign in which she's running. Or if there were literally ANY other corroborating witnesses.

It seems to be Troopergate 2.0. The first version generated a collective eye-roll from the public, so I'm sure it will receive similar treatment this time.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Shageletic posted:

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/740575078140809216

Pivoting on a second, nay, mili-second level!!

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Grey Fox posted:

Wait I thought Cruz was supposed to be the GOP candidate that everyone recoils in horror from after an up-close encounter?

That was actually true of most of them this time around.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

MaxxBot posted:

So it's progressive to support throwing eggs at "privileged idiot" women? You learn something new everyday I guess.

Women are such fragile creatures. We must protect them always.



Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Vile posted:

What is the most Trump movie?

Imo Amadeus? Trump is Mozart and the GOP is Salieri

I would vote for Idiocracy.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Wolfsheim posted:

At first I thought he wasn't releasing his taxes because it had a bunch of scumbag rich person loopholes that show he pays like 0%, but now I suspect it really is because he's worth like a fraction of what he says and it would ruin his self-image.

What if the tell-all in a few years confirms this really was just a vanity run to boost his brand that got out of hand when the rest of the field poo poo themselves to death?

Donald Trump is the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

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Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

rear end cobra posted:

Obviously, but I still think you need to be some kind of bully genius to come up with ones that actually work, simplicity aint easy. See: Dangerous Donald.

Think in terms of a kindergarten playground.

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