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Crowsbeak posted:So knowing that Abbas is largely a Israeli stooge, how much can he bottle up Palestinians from going into full on resistance mode in the west bank? How are we knowing this?
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Nov 18, 2014 21:00
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DarkCrawler posted:The most logical outcome is a single-state solution when US inevitably stops supporting Israel and the rest of the world sanctions it into submission and the end of the Jewish State when that state wont be allowed to be an apartheid state. There will be too many settlers by then for anything else to be feasible. Do you think another intifada will make the US more or less likely to stop supporting Israel?
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Nov 19, 2014 18:56
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It's unfortunately not just the GOP who supports Israel. 65 percent of Americans support Israel versus 15 percent for Palestine. I think most Americans think Palestinian=terrorist, and I dare say tactics like indiscriminate rocket attacks and rabbi assassinations are unlikely to move that number in the right direction.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:11
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I think those attacks would be justified if they actually contributed to throwing Israel out, but they don't. And as long as the rest of the world resists the impulse to occupy and oppress palestine, I really don't see the violence spreading. Crowsbeak posted:>If you asked them if Attacking children playing soccer on the beach was acceptable the majority and even a plurality of the GOP would say no. If you asked them about Palestinian children playing soccer on the beach I think they'd say "it depends on what they were up to". Just like if you asked them about a police officer shooting an unarmed black teen. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 19:28
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CommieGIR posted:The victim should not struggle as they are subdued, just accept that its going to happen. So you think the only possible resistance is indiscriminate rocket attacks and rabbi-cleaving? I'm not suggesting palestinians should sit around doing nothing, I'm suggesting that random violence directed at the most sympathetic Israelis is counterproductive. DarkCrawler posted:It doesn't matter, because younger Americans don't give any more of a poo poo about the conflict then they do about anything else in the ME. At best it would raise awaraness for few months and then fade away, and Israel's inevitable massacres wouldn't exactly increase their support. America doesn't actually have to become anti-Israel for the rest of the world to deal with them, it just has to become ambivalent. Ok, do you think high-profile attacks on Israeli civilians hasten or slow that slide to ambivalence?
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Nov 19, 2014 19:43
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Effectronica posted:The idea that this tragedy was a tactical action aimed at liberating Palestine seems improbable, unless you think Palestine is a totalitarian state. http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...d-hanged-382106 quote:"The attack in Jerusalem is a reaction to the crime and execution of the martyr al-Ramouni and a reaction to the crimes of the occupation, the Hamas movement is calling for more revenge attacks," Hamas said on its official Al-Aksa TV. Abbas condemned it, at least.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:39
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You didn't ask whether Hamas planned it, you asked whether it was a tactical action designed to end the occupation. Hamas claims it was, and calls for more of the same. And jeez, you could have googled the quote and seen it in 50 other publications rather than just asserting it's Hasbara.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:48
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CommieGIR posted:Its not like Israel news media doesn't have a legacy of publishing things that help sway public opinion for Israeli Government. Effectronica posted:No they didn't. That's a lie/gigantic misinterpretation, plain and simple. They are calling for people to fight back, but that's in line with their strategy of repeatedly provoking Israel into cracking down on Palestine and overextending themselves to the point of collapse, and their goal of discrediting Fatah. 1) This is a quote from a Hamas spokesman that was broadcast on Hamas' TV channel. Seriously, google the quote if you doubt its veracity. 2) Hamas claims this was an act of resistance against the occupation. Hamas wants more of the same. Their statements directly contradict your assertions. You are wrong.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:02
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Effectronica posted:Hamas claims that this was done because people are mad about the occupation, and specifically because of the recent murder of a Palestinian. Not that this is a grand plan to drive the Israelis out. Not to mention that Hamas did not order the attack, and is not composed of telepaths, so this is their assertion. Human rights watch: http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/11/19/israelpalestine-5-dead-synagogue-attack quote:“Hamas calls for the continuation of revenge operations and stresses that the Israeli occupation bears responsibility for tension in Jerusalem,” the spokesperson said. So you agree that: 1) Hamas has a strategy of deliberate provocation to accelerate the conflict, 2) Hamas praised the attack as resistance to the occupation and 3) Hamas encourages more attacks of similar character. Does it matter what the individual motives of the attackers were? As analogy, if the US government encouraged settlers to flood into Oklahoma and displace (again) native Americans in order to perpetrate genocide, but all the settlers were motivated solely by a desire to farm land, does that somehow mitigate the genocidal intent of the leadership?
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Nov 19, 2014 21:44
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I don't think Hamas is attempting to perpetrate genocide. I do think they bear at least some responsibility when they advocate attacks against civilian targets and people listen to them. I do think it's reasonable to see those attacks as part of a larger strategy to resist occupation, even if the individual attackers have a diverse set of motives.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:00
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Main Paineframe posted:How much responsibility does Israel bear for actually carrying out attacks against about a thousand civilian targets during the Gaza invasion? All of it, or close enough to make no difference.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:23
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We need a definition of genocide that is narrow enough to exclude Sherman's march to the sea.
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Nov 21, 2014 17:56
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Dead Reckoning posted:Is it really that hard to believe someone might find the full-throttle support for the Palestinian cause espoused by some D&D posters to be misplaced without being secretly pro Israel? I can understand being miffed by full throttle support of Hamas or Islamic jihad, because there exist other Palestinian political organizations which I prefer, but anybody who looks at the I/P situation and thinks the truth must be somewhere in the middle or the IDF is the thin green line between Israel and genocide is misinformed or delusional.
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Nov 22, 2014 04:18
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My Imaginary GF posted:Unfortunately, this requires leadership of the like which Palestinians haven't ever seen. A good first step would have been for Hamas to condemn the synagogue attack in Jerusalem--now that would have demonstrated that the organization has leadership with ambition greater than pure genocidal intent. If that's your standard for genocidal intent, when's the last time a significant state actor in Israel condemned blowing up Palestinian kids playing soccer on the beach, or any of the other thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in Israeli military actions?
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Nov 22, 2014 05:41
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 04:23 |
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Really really desperate for that schedenfreude if Tom Cotton and the Republican senate end up bringing down Netanyahu.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:28
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