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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Try using WinUSB perhaps?

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Awia posted:

what is the difference between a microcontroller like and arduino and an fpga?

A microcontroller is a small CPU with some other bits stuck onto the side, and those other bits are fairly inflexible beyond the specific tasks they were designed to perform. For a given task you choose a microcontroller which has all of the peripherals to get a particular job done and then ignore the peripherals you don't care about. An FPGA can be more or less any digital circuit, including a CPU. But it's not as fast as a "real" digital circuit etched into silicon.

An FPGA can do most things ("things" typically being "a form of digital I/O that this microcontroller wasn't specifically designed for" or "apply this mathematical formula to this stream of one billion integers") much faster than a microcontroller, to the point where an FPGA is the only practical way of getting that task done. The downside is that FPGAs are a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult to program for.

They're often used together, too: for example, an FPGA to do some bulk data processing and a microcontroller to handle control commands sent over USB. The microcontroller will have a hardware USB core that can be configured to autonomously shovel fast streams of data between the FPGA and the host computer's USB without the microcontroller CPU getting involved.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Don't use TinyOS

I mean, not that anybody sane should ever see an OS written in a toy programming language and decide this could be even remotely worth using, what sort of baka would do something like that anyway ahahahahaha *anime sweatdrop*

but yeah TinyOS is poo poo, that's what I have to contribute.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
oh god the CC2400 radio is poo poo

and the MRF24J40 is also poo poo (but i mean it's Microchip and if you use any of their digital parts in this day and age you deserve all the suffering you are about to experience)

apparently Atmel has some pretty good digital radio ICs that can do 802.15.4?

e: Atmel's various SAM3 chips Cortex uCs are pretty nice too so it seems like you could do a lot worse than Atmel in general. That said their poo poo does tend to be a bit on the pricey side.

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 11, 2015

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
I'M not using any Atmel stuff unfortunately. I was working with a contractor on an 802.15.4 device, we were forced to use MRF24J40 but said contractor (who is a lot more experienced) said he'd have much rather used the Atmel radios.

The MCU+Radio chips are ok i guess but they're literally two dies in one package iirc, the radio's just hooked up using SPI internally.

Actually the reason why we're using the MRF is because it comes as a complete module that you can just plop onto your PCB, and the Atmels do not. Which means you have to get FCC certification for Atmel based designs whereas you can just piggyback on the FCC cert for the Microchip module. We think/hope.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
there should be a verilog to synthesize a giant 3d middle finger sticking out of the silicon imo

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
100K is a bit much for I2C pullups, isn't it?

In other, TOTALLY unrelated news, TIL what an "SCR latch-up" is

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
wasn't me who designed it (i'm the firmware guy not the hardware guy) but it was me who was told to fix the problem

thankfully i had the option of asking somebody who actually knows what the gently caress when it comes to electronics

i did hook up a scope to the i2c bus though and uhhhhh yeah even i could tell that something was up

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
brotherman if i was the one designing these boards then lemme tell you there is a whole heck of a lot of stuff i'd have done differently

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
the plan was

1. design some poo poo
2. hire some poor bastard (me) to actually make it work

tbf it could be a lot worse (STM8 isn't ARM but at least it isn't loving Microchip and it's a lot better than AVR because it has a flat 16-bit address space) but all of this poo poo is low-volume and yet the bom cost is supposedly super important and yet there's all sorts of useless and very expensive components all over these boards. like every single one of them ships with a big chunky debug connector as opposed to idk just using pogos like a sane person. who the hell ships populated debug connectors to end users i mean wtf people. or the aforementioned 1.5F supercap which i don't even know what the gently caress it's doing there but it can't be cheap

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
itym bad and fail

$1 Cortex-M0 chips exist and you're still voluntarily using something with colored pointers (something something peripheral emancipation #eepromlivesmatter)

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
man you really care about what ide you're using over and above the C compiler not being a $10,000 piece of poo poo?

I know AVR has a passable GCC port which is what Atmel Studio uses iirc but not all legacy micros do

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
remember that time somebody autogenerated a clockless FPGA to distinguish between two tones and it had a bunch of poo poo in the corner that wasn't connected to anything and if you took that stuff out or changed the ambient temperature significantly it didn't work any more

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i wish i could get a gal pal :(

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
I wrote a firmware for a wirelessly-networked electricity meter, that was kinda fun

(not revenue-grade, it's for the customer's use, not the utility's)

so i got to continue my informal (wikipedia) education about electricity and electronics by reading up on like active power and apparent power & stuff like that (i already had a vague understanding of how impedance is represented using complex numbers so it was fairly straightforward)

this job is actually kinda fun the 10% of the time i'm doing the poo poo i was actually hired to do

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
is there any sort of system-on-module solution similar to the Raspberry Pi compute module that isn't at least twice as goddamn expensive?

I mean I'll use the RPi module but surely there have to be some alternatives out there.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

JawnV6 posted:

variscite dart board? idk if you can buy just one

some flavor of iMX might work as well

yeah variscite are all "contact a salesprick so we can figure out exactly how much we can screw you for". gently caress off, compete with the rpi module's price or don't waste my loving time.

all other modules are $100+ compared to the RPi CM's $40, I can't justify that at all. nobody is even remotely competitive.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
https://www.olimex.com/Products/SOM/A20/A20-SOM-4GB/

Actually this looks kinda needs-suiting

bonus points, it's open hardware so we can always get a cm to build us more if olimex goes tits up

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

JawnV6 posted:

have fun working w/ an allwinner part

and never visiting a webpage without a variscite ad lol

Webpages have ads? :confused:

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
The RPi2 we have jammed inside the case sometimes doesn't even boot up on power-on so if the A20 can do better than that it's already an improvement

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

JawnV6 posted:

im going to take my stupidly overpowered dev board and use it to host irc/nethack tmuxes because osx is determined to drop connections

one of these days

world's most advanced operating system

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

BobHoward posted:

welp i guess microchip bought atmel

gently caress

first energymicro gets bought by silabs now this

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
ya risc-v is extremely ftw but i asked rjmcall about it in a couple of other threads and he said it's an academic wanking exercise because function call prolog/epilog is comically bloated or something like that

also sorry about your job :(

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
I mean literally you have to do a store instruction for every callee-save register in the prolog and a corresponding load instruction in the epilog. ARM at least has the STM and LDM instructions.

The architecture manual suggests that the compiler call out to prolog and epilog routines to do this lol

Practical implementations are probably going to exclusively use the compressed ISA so wtf is the point of the point of the regular one.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
like fpga toolchain people know anything about version control systems :rimshot:

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

no dont

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
also if you want an external dac then a functional block that speaks i2s is what you want

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
lol docker and ubuntu

i'm sorry

surely this stuff ought to work on grown up versions of linux like centos though. docker is extremely bad

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
well, install a centos image or at worst a debian image idk

don't use ubuntu, so many things are pointlessly different and nothing works.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

JawnV6 posted:

idk why you think centos is going to be 'better', the best clue i have is that i need "whatever OS was installed on the berkeley CS machine s141.millennium in 2014"

Because Red Hat Enterprise Linux is run by grown-ups who have paying customers that get upset if you yolo your own system infrastructure for no good reason and break their poo poo in the process, and Ubuntu Linux is run by Mark Shuttleworth.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
If the software stack's documentation explicitly calls out Ubuntu Linux as its preferred host environment then yes you should use that. My condolences, then.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
energymicro also got bought by silabs which kinda sucks, their mcus were really good (but too expensive to justify unless you really need both low power and an arm core)

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
bump this thread every time openembedded is still an impenetrable clusterfuck of dogshit

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
speaking of xilinx and altera etc

http://yosefk.com/blog/i-cant-believe-im-praising-tcl.html

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
whole blog is a pretty pro click imo

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
actually maybe that's why russian programmers tend to be better than average

american programmers write happy path code. is no happy path in life. is only multiple ways in which you get hosed by life and then die.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

i almost understood all of that

man i wish i could get paid to design hardware. but on the other hand i do like being able to debug my poo poo

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
my dude, have you tried risc-v

there are several mit-licensed cpu designs out there and out-of-tree clang and gcc support (to be upstreamed very soon)

it comes in 32-bit and 64-bit variants.

https://github.com/ucb-bar/rocket-chip

one thing worth mentioning is that they design for ASIC first and don't really make FPGA a priority. there's some other project implementing a diferent ISA that does aim to be efficient in FPGA synthesis but I can't remember the name, it's something like "mk".

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 28, 2016

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i know almost nothing about fpgas but i do know that all the fpga vendors have one guy whose job it is to come in every morning and think long and hard about everybody who keeps code for their products in any form of source control and how to loving ruin their day and then go out and do that

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
generally there's only a mimumum period of time that you have to hold a reset pin low for, after that minimum time is up you can keep holding it low for as long as you want.

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