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Space Whale posted:So how do you go "hey we count too" without it just being like it is now, extremely irritating? Because if you do that too much the privilege havers get annoyed and do their own thing for themselves, since they have the privilege to do so, and then the poor, queer, brown and radical people are just left there talking about privilege on tumblr. At what point does trying to be intersectional consume so much bandwidth that it impedes a movement from accomplishing anything? I mean, to me it seems legit and probably more productive for a group to decide "We are going to focus on issue x and once we've done that we can see about y", as long as the group doesn't claim to represent a bunch of folks whose needs are being dismissed.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:18
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Sharkie posted:If your leftist movement doesn't address the issues that are faced specifically by women, LGBT people, and minorities, it's poo poo. Saying that black people being aware of and addressing burdens that are shared by all black people is "false consciousness" is as naive and goofy as saying "I don't see color, man." Meh? There are lots of issues out there and those faced specifically by women, LGBT people, and minorities are not the only ones that matter or necessarily the ones most important to every group. Not every movement is for everybody and that's probably pretty healthy.
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Dec 8, 2014 02:54
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If your leftist movement is atheoretical and focused on concrete issues it's probably too busy getting things done to hand wring over intersectionality.
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Dec 8, 2014 02:55
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Space Whale posted:As I said to twodot, do you read twitter? I've seen people apologize and get it far worse. On principle reconciliation is something I'd prefer, but if it comes down to "a little more poo poo now and less later, or more over time," I'd rather get it over with. You really don't owe anyone an apology for writing the word gook and this entire dumb derail because someone used a word that isn't approved of is basically what the article in the OP was on about in the first place. There is no  big enough to encompass this thread.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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Who What Now posted:I'm not sure which is which because Twitter doesn't matter in the slightest and I doubt it's your sole experience of online communities so maybe you should just go with the adult thing of "admitting I hosed up because I hosed up". Or maybe you shouldn't be such a prissy bitch about language you don't approve of? I mean, there are lots of options here.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:31
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Space Whale posted:Prissy is problematic because it's a gendered insult. I apologize to anyone who decided to be offended and I hope one day they will sack up so we can all be friends.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:34
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You know, I'm pretty sure they actually prefer you doing this. Just admit you were wrong and give them blue balls. Then maybe we can get back to my post (going off another ignored post) about the amoral nature of privilege theory, and whether it might serve as a way to make white people "race conscious". I think it's pretty ineffective IMO. After all my privilege checking I come to the following realizations: I have an awesome family that has spread out all over, and can help me with stuff if need be. I have lots of successful friends. I got a good education that I have put to use. Luckily, lots of horrible things that could have happened didn't happen to me. Etc. Some people can't say the same. Therefore...what, exactly? Am I supposed to feel bad about that? Because tbh it feels pretty good. I got a little mood boost just thinking about it actually.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:44
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Flectarn posted:you are bad at this That's just, like, your subjective standard I am doing quite well considering my background and disadvantages thank you very much.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:50
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Who What Now posted:You aren't supposed to feel bad, you're supposed to say "You know even though I can empathize with people who are in a much worse situation than I am I don't actually have a very good concept of what it's like to be currently living that life and I shouldn't assume that I do." Ok, cool. That's pretty reasonable but then I don't see what all the fuss is about.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:53
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Zeitgueist posted:The fuss is because folks DO want to tell people that they know how it is to live a person's live because they've lived 1/5 of it's aspects. Well ok let's stipulate that no one can speak to the lived experiences of anyone else because, you know, you didn't actually live that. What follows from that? Don't we have to find common ground to organize?
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Dec 8, 2014 22:00
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Strudel Man posted:Four pages since the event, and "someone said a bad word" has completely taken over the discussion. Telling, I think. D&D is I think the best remedy for leftist tendencies. Like, I would show someone this thread and say "See, these are your allies" and they'd be scared off for years.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:09
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Zeitgueist posted:People can already find common ground to organize, the people who are trying to tell others how they lived their lives aren't the ones you're trying to reach. But dude activists have endless words for how other people have lived their lives, how they should live their lives, and etc.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:20
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Nevvy Z posted:Also they tend to buy into just world theory and if they have privilege maybe they aren't actually better than poor black people. Hey man that's a lot to assume about people you don't know anything about.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:22
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Helsing posted:Do you really think any political forum would look much better? The internet doesn't exactly bring out the best in most people when it comes to debates like this one and the right wingers and liberals in D&D don't exactly distinguish themselves in terms of ideas or personal conduct. I don't know if D&D is uniquely bad. Honestly I think that's beside the point.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:04
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Helsing posted:How is it "beside the point" when your entire argument was that D&D somehow embodies "leftist tendencies"? I said D&D is a great cure for leftist tendencies. IDK what it would mean to "somehow embody" leftist tendencies and that doesn't even make sense.
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Dec 9, 2014 13:00
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Space Whale posted:Which raises the question of why not just push back immediately, besides their own moral calculus? I think the most capable and self-respecting people peace out to go be happy and successful doing useful things. It's just a hypothesis but "they run off anyone capable of actually doing anything" does explain the state of the modern left. Helsing posted:Is English not your native language? To embody something means to give it tangible or visible form. Isn't the implication of your post that because D&D manifests all the bad tendencies of leftism it will therefore scare away rational people? If not then your post would seemingly be a complete non sequitur. I know what it means but my post is pretty simple and you don't need to read any implications into it to get the point. D&D leftists are terrible, and exposing people to them is a great way to turn them off to the movement. The article quoted in the OP got it exactly right and D&D leftists are perfect examples of the poo poo she was calling out.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:25
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Zeitgueist posted:Also wateroverfire lecturing folks on how to turn on leftists is pretty funny. It's all about natty light and not taking no for an answer. poo poo's simple really. Good luck out there.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:38
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