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Yuriy posted:yea, that's true He is the #1 or #2 U.S. worker of his generation, and he's had an excellent reputation among hardcore fans on an all-around level since 2003. He's more skilled and far more creative than most wrestlers. But even his biggest homer fans know he is full of himself and can be a poo poo. That's what it takes to be a carny and he has that in spades. He became popular with the general fandom by consistently being way better than the guys WWE would rather have pushed, and turning storylines meant to bury him into the best events on shows. They seriously spent the better part of five years trying to ignore or bury him for not being Vince McMahon's delusional ideal. He once got squashed by the Undertaker because he wore the wrong shirt to a press event that no one saw. Meanwhile, the guys that Vince or Triple H actually likes can do no wrong, even if they fail enough drug tests to get fired. We all know that he is 36 and probably out of his depth even if he hadn't beat himself up for 15 years. Even Kurt Angle was smart enough to stay out of MMA when he was finally drummed out of WWE for being too insane. But everybody in wrestling wants to do MMA now because it has exploded and the wrestling business is way more lovely--even the payouts at the top level have reportedly gotten worse for people not named John Cena since they moved to a VoD service. So for a wrestling fan, watching him go to UFC is cool because he's sticking it to the man, win or lose. It's not like a Brock Lesnar thing where his freakish physical ability exceeds the wrestling business (regardless of how he did in UFC), it's more of a moral support/narrative thing. Though Lesnar was also harassed by WWE's legal department when he broke their predatory contract system.
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Mar 22, 2015 09:33
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Byolante posted:Calling him creative isn't really fair because his entire style aside from being straight edge is just a grab bag of other better wrestlers (one of which is in NXT) It's not that he has a unique style. Every wrestler is cribbing in part or wholesale from another. He does MMA-ish/Japanese strike-based stuff for the most part, and he's very good at it. It's that they put him in a lot of angles designed to get another guy over at his expense, and because of his promo work and general ability to have a good match with anyone, he would make it work and his popularity would only grow. His big matches would often have innovative elements to them where most WWE matches are very formulaic in how they are laid out, and he would elevate pretty lame storylines by finding a unique way to sell them to audiences. He would consistently become more popular even while losing all the time, which is very difficult. That interview he did with Colt Cabana in December where he ran down exactly why he left the company is interesting (and on Youtube), but if you hate him personally now it will not improve your opinion.
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Mar 22, 2015 11:16
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Vince is well-documented as a guy who will lie to your face and then maneuver behind your back to gently caress you over on agreements you made with him. If you have him in a legally binding position, he will resort to unbelievable carny skulduggery to get what he wants and/or simply ignore the law. Rather than give you rights and benefits as a worker in a multi-million dollar enterprise, he will either discard you or keep you on the teat as a charity case if he likes you. The company is extraordinarily petty towards wrestlers who become successful independent of the company, even if they've never actually worked for him. All that and he's always had a chip on his shoulder because his goal has been to grow his empire beyond wrestling (bodybuilding, the XFL, bad movies, Republican politics) and each time he's tried it's been a dismal failure. This has partially been an effort to make more money, but he and certain yes-men are all too conscious of wrestling's perception as redneck culture and how they feel that stigma has undermined their attempts to grow. This is partially justified but mostly has to do with Vince being a maniac and the unethical way the company has always done business. Because of the bubble of eccentricity Vince lives in, as well as the fact that they have not had serious competition for many years, the company is in the fourteenth year of an ongoing creative decline. They've methodically killed every great idea they've had and squashed talent that could have earned them millions because the writing is garbage and Vince doggedly pursues his delusional ideal of what a star wrestler must look like (basically the Ultimate Warrior). This notion is beyond disproven, as most of the biggest stars in history succeeded regardless of size or look as long as they could wrestle and talk. Of their current batch of prospects, the company is pushing the guy who arguably deserves it least and definitively the guy the fans want least as their next Number One simply because he has Vince's ideal look. The guy who actually deserves the spot has been turned into a lower card attraction that they are openly trying to sabotage in the hopes that the Wrestlemania crowd will not revolt, which they have a 99% chance of doing because Mania crowds tend to be filled with superfans. All the wrestling posters are looking forward to a gigantic clusterfuck because even besides that the card looks mostly terrible. CM Punk getting out from under this gigantic loving rear end in a top hat and his circus makes him an absolute hero. If he gets loving destroyed in the Octagon he will still be an absolute hero (and will still have prospects) and I hope his payday is huge whatever happens.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:22
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CarlCX posted:Everything you are saying is extremely awesome and on point, but just for the record, Kurt totally tried repeatedly to get into the UFC and it only ended when Dana relented and offered him a spot on the giant TUF hevyweights season with Kimbo contingent on him passing his medicals, which he apparently failed spectacularly. God drat it Kurt.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP5aG1w8k4c So here is the interview that got Punk involved in a new lawsuit. It's two hours of mostly bitching so TL;DW: 1. Claims that WWE's doctor either failed to recognize or tell Punk that he had a serious staph infection for months and would just repeatedly give him antibiotics that can't handle a staph infection. This is the basis of the defamation lawsuit. I don't think Punk actually names the doctor in this interview. 2. Claims (and this is corroborated by everyone who has worked with WWE ever) that you get no recovery time from injuries and constantly work with serious injuries. Claims that Vince will personally mislead and pressure you into coming back too early and promise to give you things in return, and then you never get those things (also corroborated). 3. Claims that WWE tried to withhold his contractual earnings after he quit and stopped returning his phone calls. Took them to court and won. This was the main reason he waited until last November to talk about any of this. 4. Says everyone backstage is kept in the dark about what's going on at large with the company (such as what is happening to their paydays now that they are moving from PPV to online) 5. Says newer guys are rightly scared shitless of doing anything outside of what they are told, but guys are expected to find their own way and stand out even though the company has cultivated fear of refusing to do anything the writers want. Basically, either Vince likes you and lets you do whatever you want or he doesn't. 6. Was mad about having to do jobs for the Undertaker/Rock/Brock because they are not full-time guys, but clearly is actually mad because he didn't perceive that he was earning the same money as top stars even after becoming one. This is kinda the thing he is being a poo poo about, because those guys coming in improves business and therefore everyone's paycheck, and they've all already done all their world tours and then some/have other business. Punk comes off like he was politicking too much (but he deserved payoffs matching everyone else's at his level). 7. Does not get along with Triple H and thinks Triple H personally tried to sabotage his career. 8. Says Ryback is a sloppy idiot and suspects Ryback tried to injure him on purpose. ***** When you frame this as one person saying these things it's easy to dismiss as Punk being a whiny poo poo. But anyone who is not dependent on WWE for their livelihoods or that doesn't have a chance of getting another run with the company backs this stuff up, as do the dirtsheets in general. If you want to read all about what an unbelievable carny Vince is, you can pick up Bret Hart's book and skip to the part where he comes into WWF. You can there read about Vince causing the Montreal screwjob because he was unable to legally gently caress with Bret's contract, retaining Owen Hart's contract and making him a jobber simply to spite Bret (inadvertently leading to Owen's death), the guys behind DX originally forming the group as a political bloc so Vince couldn't gently caress with any of their careers, and so on. Also, WWE has now twice fired the same trainer (in 2007 and earlier this month) for physically abusing trainees, covering up sexual harassment, and firing whistleblowers. Being in wrestling is kinda like being in NFL football except workers don't get treated as well and make a tiny fraction of the money. This is not to say the NFL has a good record. So, with all that wrestling trivia out of the way, I hope that CM Punk wins at least one UFC match, even if it means they have to give him an MMA jobber, if for no other reason than that if he does go back to wrestling, which he may well do for WWE or another company, he will command a better bargaining position. I would ordinarily say after all this that he'll never go back to WWE, but the bad blood between Vince and Bret Hart or Vince and Ultimate Warrior was way worse and they eventually did business again (in Bret's case because he wanted input into what the company said about him... It's hard to say why Warrior did anything). Name Change fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 05:01
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Even knowing Vince McMahon, I don't see how that New Jack story is a thing, unless someone from the back office literally hired New Jack and Vince didn't know anything about it until he's shaking hands with the guy. Which I guess actually makes sense, because why the gently caress would you ever hire New Jack if you're a grown-up with an actual television show that you don't have to pay the network to show? Vince doesn't pay attention to anything outside of what's going on with Raw, the flagship show where all the main event storylines happen. He has summarily fired guys when he discovered they were in the company that the writing team had already planned entire main event angles for. For a long time the promotion had two world titles, one for each show and that sometimes switched shows (and at one point three when they revived ECW). Whichever titles were not on Raw were treated like midcard belts and would often curtain-jerk PPVs. With Raw he is constantly micromanaging everything and feeding the commentators most of their lines.
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Mar 24, 2015 01:14
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It cannot be over-emphasized how little the hardcore title mattered in the scheme of things in which it existed. If Kane and Big Show are in a match with Raven, it's so Raven loses to them. That is Raven's only Mania match in four years with the company and he was barely on TV after that. 99% of the hardcore title run was guys considered too unimportant and untalented to go elsewhere on the card and have a garbage match.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:23
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Keg posted:mma posters have to say 1 nice thing about wrestling posters and vice versa starting now The MMA posters are way funnier than the wrestling posters
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Mar 26, 2015 01:46
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Then there was the time WWE tried to treat Tough Enough as a shoot (a reality TV program about people trying to break into the wrestling business) and had Daniel Puder put Kurt Angle (a big WWE star by this time) in a kimura. If the referees hadn't intervened to count Puder down (which he wasn't), he would've broken Kurt's arm and/or embarrassed him and the company on a Smackdown broadcast, because Kurt was not really in a position to tap out. Never under-estimate how big the chip on WWE's shoulder is as regards MMA.
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Mar 30, 2015 20:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Maybe not the absolute worst, but Tank had already been jobbed out like any other guy. He hadn't been built up as a monster at all. This whole Puder story is something I didn't believe the first time I heard it because I couldn't believe that the company could be that stupid (ditto for the CM Punk being buried for his outfit at a press event). Essentially they had Kurt tangle with a legit shooter with no precautions or worked anything. They just somehow had faith that Kurt, many years past his prime, would gently caress up these rookies as expected (itself a retarded goal), because wrestling guys have a huge hard-on for making people pay dues and the backstage politics make high school seem mature.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:06
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Luigi Thirty posted:Yes, after he got murdered in the Rumble he left to go 8-0 in professional MMA. This is OK but MMA junkies probably have lots to say about the quality of opponents that a guy will get in sub-UFC MMA like Strikeforce.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:15
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Halloween Jack posted:To be fair, Angle was an Olympic heavyweight gold medalist. It's not unreasonable to think somebody with those credentials could outgrapple a MMA journeyman. Did Puder even have any pro fights at that point? Problem is Angle's body was a wreck. The thing with MMA is that it's dangerous and guys who are past their prime are basically meat even if they used to be great. Nobody should be shooting on anybody on a professionally-run wrestling show.
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Mar 30, 2015 21:27
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Man Michael Landsberg got old quickly.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:38
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There is always a "Wrestler owes his fans" contingent in wrestling. Most of the ones who aren't insufferable teenagers are his coworkers.
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Feb 5, 2016 01:23
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Yeah, uh, that might be it, really.
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Feb 10, 2016 18:05
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ayn rand hand job posted:Brian Pillman was working a loose cannon angle where he was booked to be on the outs with WCW management. He talked his bosses into letting him work ECW after giving him a formal release so it would add to the realism. It's also worth noting that this was after he shattered his ankle in a car accident and was practically unable to wrestle on a permanent basis.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:18
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MassRafTer posted:And that his plan was to just leverage the angle into being paid "Lex Luger money" by WCW and wanted to just use the WWF to raise his price. The WWF was the only one offering guaranteed money after the accident so he went with them. Being friends with Austin probably helped him get that WWF gig, since by '96 Austin was getting bigger by the week.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:25
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Luigi Thirty posted:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xM9dUFzN-bA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzq7JvLH8W4 GOAT
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Feb 12, 2016 04:06
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It makes a certain amount of sense that wrestlers are such tough guy fetishists that their self-delusion sometimes gets the better of them and they book shoots thinking they still have control of the outcome. Brawl for All was not the last time stuff like this would happen.
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Feb 15, 2016 20:57
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Fozzy The Bear posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCngu7E8z8I I love that the WWE company line is still "UFC is not like us, is uncool, and we are not afraid of it," which broadcasts very loudly that they feel the opposite.
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Apr 13, 2016 23:38
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The John Cena meme, much like himself, is third-rate
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Apr 15, 2016 04:31
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MassRafTer posted:He's the best wrestler in the world. That's funny, because unlike some wrestlers I could name (CM Punk) he gives interview responses like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCngu7E8z8I Like, being a wrestler means you are a wrestler all the time and forever, man. Macho Man interviews are the reason he is a legend, and this poo poo here is the reason why everyone is going to forget about John Cena and his big bowl of nothing Make-A-Wish "career" five years after he is forced into retirement from doing too many lovely hip tosses. Or maybe he could reassure us he has two working balls and keep it real with Larry King, instead of looking like he's late for prep school. If that's the best wrestler in the world, then gently caress this gay earth. Name Change fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 09:24
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Captain Log posted:At first I thought, "Good for Punk, get your rear end kicked, mark something off the bucket list, good for you man." Yeah I am leaning this way also.
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May 24, 2016 03:19
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Bluedeanie posted:I'll be the first to admit I don't know a whole ton about any given wrestleman so maybe CM Punk really is a sly business dealer like that, but I get the impression that this wasn't his angle at all and he really is a doof who thought high-level MMA would be a cool thing for him to do and he simply got the fringe benefit of covered medical care. The basic background, and really the reason Punk left wrestling, is that wrestling provides no medical care other than what Vince McMahon decides to pay for out of the goodness of his heart. There is nothing contractual. Most of the reason wrestlers do commercials and whatever is so they get a SAG credit and therefore insurance. UFC took in a wrestler in his late 30's and really no demonstrated MMA ability on the idea that it would pop at least one buyrate. Surely Punk intends to fight, but he got into UFC on the strength of a Japanese-style striker gimmick and a high profile, so by definition UFC got worked. Also you either have to be a total carny and/or extremely lucky to get to the top of the WWE, it's only nominally a merit-based system and Punk's look is the opposite of what Vince pushes given a choice.
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May 26, 2016 22:51
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Bluedeanie posted:That may all be true, but if it truly was always just about the insurance all along, why not do what everyone else does as you say and get a SAG credit, sparing his fragile ego the embarrassment or inconvenience of redundant interview questions, losing Kumite-style Rufousport smokers and being called a coward on the internet for ducking Mickey Gall? Surely the man with the Pepsi logo tattooed on his flesh is not above selling out for a few TV spots. I don't know, a gigantic payday for fighting a can, win or lose? There is no real downside. You can work SAG while training.
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May 26, 2016 23:07
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Chris James 2 posted:Despite what you'd be inclined to think, many people in punchsports aren't big fans of being punched But Brock is invincible?!?
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Jun 22, 2016 22:50
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We don't compete with UFC at all, which is why we waited until Brock was in UFC to talk to him again, signed him to a contract where he can do whatever the gently caress he wants, and gave him a god-push.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:43
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fatherdog posted:I like how about 40% of this thread is wrestling fans assuming mma fans are mad about this and 40% is mma fans assuming pro wrestling fans are mad about this There were enough people real angryposting about Brock in UFC and getting trolled that there was some question as to whether the wrestling and MMA subforums could get along if they were merged. This thread is mainly just a cyclical countdown to the next time someone posts smash cut GIFs of CM Punk's trunks.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:37
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What's worth mentioning is that CP Munk was created specifically to troll Punk, who didn't get along with the people there, and it apparently worked.
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Jul 12, 2016 16:42
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coconono posted:There's a little spark of hope that maybe all the times he got lit up in those smokers, he was defeated in a different way each time. Superman will have to sacrifice himself to defeat Dorksday.
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Aug 9, 2016 01:12
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I'm more interested at this point to see what becomes of his legal disputes.
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Aug 13, 2016 23:25
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Remember that even Bret Hart came back, and Vince let him and the rest of the Harts [pretend to] beat him up on live PPV. Vince will work with anyone (except Savage) if he sees a dollar in it. Bret came back almost entirely to control his legacy, i.e. disincentivize Vince lying about him in the media they push out. Brock's UFC fighting made him a major get--the general public doesn't care that the heavyweight division has historically been a joke--and they complied with his general disinterest in doing lovely WWE schedules. The wellness program is a real bad joke for about 11 months out of every year.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:21
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The Bryan/HHH match was very good so whatevs.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:34
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Baron Corbyn posted:The thing that surprises me most about this is that he had dozens of friends in the first place. Punk had a bunch of wrestling friends that he 100% stopped communicating with as soon as he left, even before the doctor lawsuit. While he was still working, Vince told him he was worse to deal with than Shawn Michaels when he was on drugs.
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Sep 2, 2016 09:03
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VileLL posted:The man who was booked as champion for over a year was not pushed People are mainly mad that they brought in Kevin Nash to wrestle him, when Kevin Nash's only qualification for even being near a wrestling ring is "Triple H's friend." This also happened when Punk was at his hottest in the company and of course he was made to not look that good and never be that hot again. And if you think that's an out-there conspiracy theory, well, wrestling is like high school but a thousand times more petty. Name Change fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 18:53
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I hope Punk wins and then he gets brought back in to go over Brock.
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Sep 4, 2016 06:24
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Kurohashi posted:While the videos of his sparring and all that aren't optimistic in his chances here, I also don't think he's putting his best stuff and tricks out there to be seen. He nor his team are dumb enough to make it that easy for Gall; especially if Gall is the superior fighter in individual disciplines. Punk is secretly hiding his knowledge of basic posture and movement.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:57
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Frankly the funniest thing that could happen is this entire thread eating a bunch of crow.
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Sep 9, 2016 22:30
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Street Horrrsing posted:Before this thread dies can any of the wrestlefans explain fans explain how CM Punk made it to the wwe in the first place? It's my understanding that vince mcmahon has a fetish for bodybuilders over 6'4" and unlike other sports there are no accolades like a heisman trophy that basically demand that you be taken seriously on a national level. Obviously vince has poached talent from japan and mexico that has proven to be a draw but was (or is) ring of honor on that level? Was CM Punk on television at all before the wwe? From 2003 to when he signed in 2005ish, Punk was the most popular American indy wrestler, rivaled only by Samoa Joe. Punk was hired for Ohio Valley Wrestling, at the time a WWE feeder system and also at the time run by Paul Heyman. An OVW signing was no guarantee of getting on WWE TV. Heyman actually paid attention to the indies and liked Punk, but Heyman infamously butts heads with the WWE writing team (and is a huge carny even by wrestling standards). However, Punk's arrival in OVW coincided with WWE doing a reboot of ECW in 2005. This was nothing like actual ECW; WWE positioned it as a C show for underdeveloped wrestlers and older talent that were not going to be featured attractions elsewhere. They also gave Heyman creative control (at first, until he booked December to Dismember, an awful PPV). So Punk was in. Punk jobbed for pretty much everybody they could job him to. But eventually he was pushed near the top of the ECW cards as others quit or demonstrated less talent. Ultimately, almost everyone else that WWE tried to develop via ECW was a failure, for a variety of reasons. Punk eventually moved to Smackdown, which is more important, but also a taped show that Vince never watched. Not to give you a year by year account, but everywhere Punk ended up in the WWE system, he floated to the top of a bunch of bullshit politics, was better at wrestling than almost everybody else, and got a few lucky breaks.
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Sep 18, 2016 12:26
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Having now seen the fight I am not sure there is a can for CM Punk to whoop.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:50
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