|
Indicting anyone in the state / defense departments or CIA for torture seems caught in an endless loop: -Was it a top-down policy tacitly approved at all levels? Then we can't blame the minions, and we'll never get anything meaningful leveled against the higher-ups. We should drop it. -Was it done without the approval or complete knowledge of those at the top (Powell, Bush, Cheney?) Then no one meaningful could be prosecuted. Why open old wounds and make ammo for the next political cycle? We should drop it. I'm very pessimistic about any of this, but I support those who at least show up to these hearings and try to get the word out.
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 08:46 |
|
|
gvibes posted:Ah yes, we can't punish people if they were commanded to commit illegal acts. I'm sure the nazis would be comforted by that. While I'm pretty sure you understand that I'm merely restating the public sentiment, not condoning it, I'll elaborate further. Improving our human rights record has little to do with individuals corrupting the system. Abu Ghraib was not a failure because of Lindy England. The problem is that political capital is spent attempting to formalize prosecution against minor players — and a few underlings going to military court 14 years after the fact does not create a deterrent effect. I think that political capital would be better spent bringing the issue into public dialogue and asking for more transparency from our government. This report being released is a good step 0. I think the political mood in the US may be shifting right now towards honest-to-God police reform; perhaps we can bundle greater military and intelligence oversight, the idea that these services are meant to serve the people and truly answer to them. Although I'm very pessimistic about that. This doesn't preclude prosecuting malfeasance, but it does ask us to keep our larger goal in mind — reforming systems of accountability themselves. The senate is so wildly inefficient at even running the government, we can't rely on them for jurisprudence. EDIT: I'll withdraw the word "wasted" because I agree, if we can truly prosecute, let's do it. I'll leave the feasibility and timeline of that to those that know more about the subject. Don't mean to give the impression I'm against following through on this report in particular.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:So you're saying that popular American television programs have been used for right-wing to far-right propaganda for years? You're probably doing  , but it's worth stating for the record: American popular culture almost universally depicts torture in a way that completely meshes with the neo-conservative view of it — a short-in-duration, tense progression of techniques, nearly always employed by good men in tough times (the "ticking time bomb" scenario), often disobeying orders in order to immediately produce actionable intelligence. The ends justify the means. Video games are also highly culpable in this depiction.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2014 23:10
|
|