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that doesn't really answer your question or anything its just my opinion. Bayonetta- 
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Dec 13, 2014 00:06
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steinrokkan posted:Unironically a good question. yeah thats why i posted it
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Dec 13, 2014 00:07
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steinrokkan posted:Can somebody explain to me how a blank "character" who was just an indescript animated sprite jumping on platforms and shooting blobs at things is considered to be an empowered character? (Samus) Well she wrecks the poo poo out of a bunch of aliens men seem useless in defeating.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:08
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steinrokkan posted:Can somebody explain to me how a blank "character" who was just an indescript animated sprite jumping on platforms and shooting blobs at things is considered to be an empowered character? (Samus) samus was considered a strong character because she was actually as capable and as badass as male characters in other games, and basically the most powerful being in her entire universe within her own games without it being anything other than "she is really tough and strong and found this kickass armour". but then you had the bikini thing and also now other m against that. but in general she is cool.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:08
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samus is probably my fav character outside of more recent characterisations. I main her on smash for example...
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Dec 13, 2014 00:10
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steinrokkan posted:Can somebody explain to me how a blank "character" who was just an indescript animated sprite jumping on platforms and shooting blobs at things is considered to be an empowered character? (Samus) http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/femme-doms-of-videogames-bayonetta-doesnt-care-if.html maddy myers probably has written about samus before too because she's a big metroid fan; anyway that article is an example of how there are women who identify strongly w/ bayo and w/ how she is cool as heck
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Dec 13, 2014 00:10
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steinrokkan posted:Can somebody explain to me how a blank "character" who was just an indescript animated sprite jumping on platforms and shooting blobs at things is considered to be an empowered character? (Samus) A woman can't be empowered and sexual at the same time? Sounds like slut shaming.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:12
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Stux posted:samus was considered a strong character because she was actually as capable and as badass as male characters in other games, and basically the most powerful being in her entire universe within her own games without it being anything other than "she is really tough and strong and found this kickass armour". but then you had the bikini thing and also now other m against that. but in general she is cool. Well, but she was't really a character, was she? If they replaced her with an animate ballpoint pen, it wouldn't have made any difference to the original Metroid games. She was just a generic entity for a player to control.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:12
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I'll bite. The problem isn't really gaming. Gaming has room for pretty much everything. Especially with Steam, Xbox Indie Games and PS4 indie store or whatever it has. There can be social issue titles and brainless titles and everything in between. That's not the issue. The problem is social media, especially twitter. Reducing everything down to 140 characters radicalizes everything. It leaves no room for compromise, only black and white. These sort of issues don't fit themselves neatly into that small space. So everyone tends to gravitate to their various sides and then just radicalizes. Which leaves no room for any meaningful discussion, just endlessly slinging poo poo at your opposition. Polygon and Kotaku, however, shall always remain utter garbage to be mocked and roundly laughed at.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:14
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Adam Bowen posted:A woman can't be empowered and sexual at the same time? Sounds like slut shaming. Hi there, buddy, long time no see, how are you doing? I guess that a woman can be empowered and sexual at the same time but as Orson Welles used to say, graphic sexuality in media makes any sort of aesthetic or ethical messages impossible on account of its qualitatively different and overwhelming nature.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:14
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Bayonetta is problematic because she's still very much a male fantasy object.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:16
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Also I guess any character who achieves their empowerment entirely through murder doesn't deserve to be considered a role model for anybody.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:18
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Groovelord Neato posted:Bayonetta is problematic because she's still very much a male fantasy object. Stux posted:samus was considered a strong character because she was actually as capable and as badass as male characters in other games, and basically the most powerful being in her entire universe within her own games without it being anything other than "she is really tough and strong and found this kickass armour". but then you had the bikini thing and also now other m against that. but in general she is cool. Adam Bowen posted:A woman can't be empowered and sexual at the same time? Sounds like slut shaming. lol okay i cant tell whos on what side anymore
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Dec 13, 2014 00:18
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steinrokkan posted:Well, but she was't really a character, was she? If they replaced her with an animate ballpoint pen, it wouldn't have made any difference to the original Metroid games. She was just a generic entity for a player to control. it's a game, an old one at that, her characterisation comes from what happens in the game, how she reacts, what she encounters (outside of like the super metroid intro). yes this means part of her characterisation is subjective and based on the agency of the player but that is one of gamings strengths over other mediums
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Dec 13, 2014 00:19
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You know what this thread needs? neurolimal and zeitgueist
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Dec 13, 2014 00:19
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Adam Bowen posted:A woman can't be empowered and sexual at the same time? Sounds like slut shaming. The poster was calling attention to the lack of other characteristics. I don't think Bayonetta is an empowering character because as a character she is very 2-Dimensional.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:22
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Stoked for a new Adam Bowen thread.steinrokkan posted:Can somebody explain to me how a blank "character" who was just an indescript animated sprite jumping on platforms and shooting blobs at things is considered to be an empowered character? (Samus) Olde Samus isn't a blank character. We know through her actions that she blows poo poo up, kills space pirates, and saves a Metroid. There's an episode of Extra Credits bout this. Not touching Bayonetta though.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:22
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Nope. We took turns playing as sheva so that each of us could get a good look at that sweet sweet mulatto rear end. With that leopard print bikini? Awww riiiiight...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbquDj3mkGc
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Dec 13, 2014 00:22
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KoldPT posted:You know what this thread needs? neurolimal and zeitgueist To summon them you need to look in a mirror and say 'Gamergate, Gamergate, Gamergate'
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Dec 13, 2014 00:23
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Stux posted:it's a game, an old one at that, her characterisation comes from what happens in the game, how she reacts, what she encounters (outside of like the super metroid intro). yes this means part of her characterisation is subjective and based on the agency of the player but that is one of gamings strengths over other mediums Hm, yes, I've jumped from platform A to platform B, suddenly I feel at one with women world wide.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:23
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Heran Bago posted:Stoked for a new Adam Bowen thread. So the endgame for strong women characters is to be equally destructive as men characters? That doesn't seem very progressive.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:24
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IMO one shouldn't look up to video game characters as role models or idols (especially Mario)
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Dec 13, 2014 00:25
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well we had a good run, time to 
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Dec 13, 2014 00:25
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discussion timeline: what is a game ---> can games be art ---> gamergate ---> is bayonetta sexist or empowering
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Dec 13, 2014 00:26
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Heran Bago posted:Not touching Bayonetta though. psh, like you even could, wuss
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Dec 13, 2014 00:26
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steinrokkan posted:So the endgame for strong women characters is to be equally destructive as men characters? That doesn't seem very progressive. it's for both men and women characters to be able to cover the same range of characterisation rather than being placed into specific roles
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Dec 13, 2014 00:27
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steinrokkan posted:So the endgame for strong women characters is to be equally destructive as men characters? That doesn't seem very progressive. like in a time where women characters were always the princess to the PCs mario it was cool to have at least one game where a woman character WAS mario
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Dec 13, 2014 00:28
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Falsum posted:IMO one shouldn't look up to video game characters as role models or idols (especially Mario) I think that people should have more respect for tradesmen like plumbers and their importance to society.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:28
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hey here is something actually problematic in the most hilarious way after about the 1 minute mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buRrdnZTMVA
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Dec 13, 2014 00:29
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Stux posted:like in a time where women characters were always the princess to the PCs mario it was cool to have at least one game where a woman character WAS mario how do you feel about peach from mario 2
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Dec 13, 2014 00:29
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Endorph posted:well we had a good run, time to I'm sure people expected this thread to have a long illustrious career in the Games subforum.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:31
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Gumdrop Larry posted:I think that people should have more respect for tradesmen like plumbers and their importance to society. they should, but the german technical school model
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Dec 13, 2014 00:33
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Ekster posted:hey here is something actually problematic in the most hilarious way after about the 1 minute mark I love how at like 1 minute 20 the guy is on all fours crawling into the girls bathroom. I also find it interesting that a lot of the comments are talking about the evil fascist feminazis threatening their rights to be... creepy?
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Dec 13, 2014 00:34
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ZergRushing posted:how do you feel about peach from mario 2 i think u mean doki doki panic
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Dec 13, 2014 00:34
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Ekster posted:hey here is something actually problematic in the most hilarious way after about the 1 minute mark i'm buying this
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Dec 13, 2014 00:35
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Stux posted:like in a time where women characters were always the princess to the PCs mario it was cool to have at least one game where a woman character WAS mario OK, I guess that's valid. Though it seems to marginalize any value-oriented feminist movement. Instead it's satisfactory to have any woman model, like having a generic female LEGO model to replace the generic male LEGO figurine.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:35
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ZergRushing posted:how do you feel about peach from mario 2 she's the slowest and weakest character but can use her skirt to float hmmmm also luigi is the only real choice from a gameplay perspective
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Dec 13, 2014 00:38
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steinrokkan posted:OK, I guess that's valid. Though it seems to marginalize any value-oriented feminist movement. Instead it's satisfactory to have any woman model, like having a generic female LEGO model to replace the generic male LEGO figurine. well we are talking about old games here I mean. mario was just a moustache trying to save a princess from a dinosaur. also as someone else mentioned earlier she did have characterisation as well and was generally a cool character, the fact she was also a female PC in an era where that was really rare only helped make her more important. again it's like a developmental process. always keep drawing these comparisons but at one point it was just important that a woman or a minority was in a film instead of a guy in drag or black face, never mind about the actual character they were playing. nowadays that (rightly) isn't enough. product of the times etc Stux fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 00:40
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Stux posted:she's the slowest and weakest character but can use her skirt to float hmmmm yeah but she has the unique ability to attract 90% of the player pool by being a cute pink floaty girl, JUST LIKE A REAL WOMAN and no sexualization isnt it everything you've always wanted!!
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Dec 13, 2014 00:48
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goons are stupid as poo poo
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Dec 13, 2014 00:50
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