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FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I gave Stonemaier Games $239 today, for Viticulture, Tuscany, the metal coins, and Euphoria.

Got an email from Jamey a few hours later thanking me and letting me know that all the Viticulture stuff is shipping in a few days, can't wait to make some wine.

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FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Jedit posted:

Jamey Stonemaier is one of the best guys in the business for support. I picked up Euphoria at Essen; when I got home I found there were some missing resource markers and the white dice were replaced by a second set of green dice. I got in touch, explained the problem, and my bits were in the post next day. Then I didn't get my tracking number for early shipping on Viticulture CE. I asked Jamey what gives, he said I wasn't on the list but he'd see what he could do. Turns out he sent a few extra copies to the distributor in case of damage in transit, which is wise, and he personally got in touch with them and arranged for them to ship one to me. He is the Duke of New York, A number 1, and you should all give him lots of money.

The whole thing sounds... too perfect? Like, it's this dude who kickstarted a game, and it did really well, and it's balooned into him kickstarting more games, and "publishing" other people's games via kicstarter, and writing a ton about kickstarter as an expert, and even writing a book about kickstarter. Like, what's the flipside? Does he have people chained in his basement?

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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my most recent game there were 5 of us and we played to 10 (and decided 10 was too many for 5 players) but the game ended with 3 people at 11 and 1 at 10, and 1 at 9.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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It felt like we spent 1/2 with someone getting to 8, and the second half on getting someone to 10. And it was very close at the end as 4/5 of us had gotten past the goal post. There was so much going back and forth capturing temples and temporary victory points, we all felt it would have been nicer to play 2 games to 8 rather than 1 game to 10.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I'm excited for Viticulture because it's wine themed and my wife loves wine so maybe if I give her enough wine I can convince her to play with me.

RE: Legacy games, ls "Legacy" a brand or just a concept? And either way what other "Legacy" games are there besides Risk? Looking at the Kickstarter, for Tuscany (Viticulture expansion) it sort of has a Legacy feel to it, because it wants you to slowly add expansions in over time. But I thought it was a Hasbro trademark and all they'd released was Risk: Legacy. But now I see Pandemic Legacy is a real thing, but will it actually be called Pandemic Legacy, or something else?

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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According to a preview I read of the Xcom board game, it deals with with the problem of quarter backing by limiting the time available to make decisions. The commander will have to make a decision and the there isn't enough time for everyone to discuss it, just enough time to ask the player with the relevant information and they both basically have to make a snap decision.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Glazius posted:

So I got my Tuscany expansion in the mail.

My copy of Tuscany came before Viticulture :argh: It's just sitting there teasing me.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I absolutely cannot stand Resistance, at least not with my group. Too much AP trying to find the "optimal" team or vote or whatever, and it's just super amplified because it's not just one person but between a whole bunch of people.

I love to play Coup because everybody can do their own thing and I don't get bogged down in other people's AP.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Question for those who've played Viticulture: is there any maintenance cost for workers or anything like that? AKA if I have the 4 Lira every turn is there any reason not to keep hiring more workers?

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Yeah, reading a bit more, maxing out your workers may not necessarily be the best option.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I really suck at explaining rules, but whenever I try there's always someone demanding I explain a thing that I haven't gotten to yet. Playing viticulture last night I was explaining the actions and when I got to "build a building" someone asked what buildings were. If I'd explained buildings first I'm sure someone would have asked how I build them. I don't know, maybe you just need to internalize that little bit of information for like 2 seconds until I get to explaining it.

But also I'm terrible at explaining games so it's probably my fault.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Zveroboy posted:

preferably odd shapes, like d7s

I looked it up and now I think I'm angry that d7s actually exist.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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BonHair posted:

This weird world is all stores go out of business, not just B&M ones. Which is hyperbole probably. Basically, the reason is storage, as outlined in the post above by Gutter Owl who knows way more than me. Big publishers could probably stock stuff, but again, you need a distribution network, and sometimes it's just smarter to outsource that. Especially since we still have shipping costs and borders and crap.

Amazon seems to do a very good job of just taking care of the whole supply chain thing. It's what Stonemaier does, everything just gets shipped by the pallet from the factory to an Amazon warehouse.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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M:y friend bought Virgin Queen from our FLGS, and when he did the clerk said he was glad someone was buying it, because the store ordered 4, put them on the floor, then lost them, and ordered 4 more, then found the original stock location. So they have 8 copies of a game that is awesome but nobody will play.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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fozzy fosbourne posted:

I think you are looking for a dwarf simulation, but FWIW I dwarf pretty hard in Lord of the Rings LCG.


There's a mechanic that I think I've grown a little tired of that I'm going to try to describe. It's in worker placement and other games, where a fundamental strategy is hate drafting an action/resource that a player wants. The worst instances being a case where drafting that particular resource or not is the difference between an awesome engine vs a pile of poo poo.

As an example, in Ticket to Ride, this can be two players recognizing a third's big route ticket and denying them a key node. If they don't deny it and you didn't invest resources into alternatives, you are probably going to win the game. If they do deny it, you are going to lose. And if you invest heavily in countermeasures ahead of this event, you are probably going to get a mediocre middle of the pack score. So if you want to play to win, you try and shoot the moon and either spectacularly win or fail. It's sort of like the strategy in tourney poker of going all in on a big coin-flip-odds pot early, vs the strategy of playing really conservatively in non-tourney play.

The same sort of thing can occur in Agricola, where you can gamble on getting more points but potentially starving if the board colludes to starve you, vs securing food at lower efficiency but diminishing your scoring potential.

However, I'm struggling to really think of games that don't feature this mechanic that aren't straight up direct conflict, co-op, or multiplayer solitaire games. I think the mechanic might be a bit passive aggressive?

It's ironic, but in direct conflict games, it feels a little less .. assholey .. because you are given the option to retaliate. Additionally, in a direct conflict game, you are a shark or a tiger; you eat the other players in order to survive and no one blames you for it. Whereas in a low-interaction, action-denial euro, I feel more like I'm greedy? For example, in Chaos in the Old World, I don't feel bad being Khorne and attacking other players, whereas I feel like a dickhead when I block my aunt's big TTR route or my buddy's family starves in 'Gric.

Co-op is pretty self explanatory.

Multiplayer solitaire games kind of have issues but I think some of my favorite games ever have been criticized as multi-player solitaire. Dominion with certain kingdoms, Race for the Galaxy, Castles of Burgundy, Galaxy Trucker, etc. I think I enjoy games that require optimizing an engine within a random context.

Finally, much like Vlaada, I'm more content to wreck people's plans in anonymous games than I am when I'm playing with friends, family, coworkers, etc.

Anyways, I'm always on the look out for more really well executed "almost multi-player solitaire" games, I think.

Sounds like a good time to plug my new favorite game Viticulture, the Grande worker lets you use a spot that's otherwise blocked. At first glance you'd think that ruins the tension of WP but it really doesn't because games are so short and there is so much you need to do to get points that it's always stressful. I'm just completely in love with this game right now.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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bI don't even understand what the NSFW deck is going to be. How the hell do you make that game/concept "raunchy" (jokes on me it's just all going to be poop jokes and toilet humor).

Speaking of toilet humor, I've got my copy of Cards against URBANITY (NOT HUMANITY) and I need a better way to store it. It came with a generic white cardboard box (the kind you can get for bulk trading cards for a few bucks) to store it, but it's too big. and everything flops around. So I've got 420 cards, standard playing card size, that I need a storage solution for. It's probably too big to make a tuck box for, even if I separate the black and the white cards. So I just need something smaller, could be cardboard, but plastic would be nice, that can hold my 420 cards.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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StashAugustine posted:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqc4E2fX6XTuMAF5DQnuwkudr3E7idjuR

Mock my lovely taste in music and I'll say that I just listen to it for fun.

Sorry but that's amazing thematically.

We were playing Virgin Queen and the host wanted to put on some music so we had to figure out 1) what musical period Virgin Queen took place in (it's Baroque) 2) Who were some Baroque composers we could play.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Lorini posted:

So sad about 2. Jeezus he only did about 1000 songs, guess his name??? drat.

Wait no it wasn't Baroque it was Renaissance, since the game takes place 1559-1598. So Bach is like 100 year soff.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I bought Fluxx 10 years ago in high school while all my gaming time was put into M:tG. I just moved and found Fluxx in a box and chucked it. Probably a year or so jumping a dead car got me into a gaming group that plays real games.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Is Machi Koro any good? My wife and I were at a game night and someone had just picked it up so 4 of us played it. My wife won by basically just not buying anything beyond a few starter cards and then just hoarding cash until she could flip all the attractions. I was the only one that ever really rolled 2 dice, and it never really helped me. I tried to formulate some kind of strategy based on what numbers were likely to come up (aka buy cards that activated on as many rolls as possible) but there just aren't that many options. It was enjoyable but it didn't really seem very deep, was I missing something?

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Speaking of storing contents, is there a source for really really really tiny storage boxes? I threw out the little plastic bags for meeples in Viticulture because there are 6 slots for 6 colors, but I'm finding they're a pain in the rear end to get out of the tray. I saw a picture on BGG with some tiny plastic containers that fit into the slots, but I haven't found anything that small online.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Durendal posted:

Board Goons, sell me on Viticulture+Tuscany. I heard very good things about it, but that price tag is a little stiff.

My wife hates board games and I got her to play Viticulture because of the wine theme. She loves it. People I've introduced it to have loved it. Tuscan is more expensive than Viticulture, but it's worth it. There's a looooooot of content there, and I think it adds a ton more to the game.

I'm kind of obsessed with this game, it even has a solo mode (if you get Tuscany) so you can practice with yourself.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Blush is also one white grape and one red grape, if that will set your mom off (I have no idea I hate wine but love this game).

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I watched one of the Dice Tower "Top 10" videos where it's the 3 neckbeards who each made their own top 10 list and they couldn't even really agree on what the topic meant (Top 10 games for 7 players, does that mean games where 7 can play even if other numbers are more ideal? Games where 7 is best? Something else? Who cares, vomit out your list of poo poo anyway!)

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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fozzy fosbourne posted:


I want to like Watch It Played, but I feel like he goes too fast for our attention span and we lose track of the rules and then it becomes painful to remain focused.

I thought his videos for Viticulture and Tuscany were amazing, I just watched it and played, without barely cracking the rulebook.

I tried to get my wife to watch because I'm a horrible teacher, but (and I agree with her on this) he just seems too happy. It's just... weird? Teaching rules just seems like the most thankless role in all of board game video making, and he's just so drat excited to do it!

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I've been in a group for about a year (and they played for at least a year before that). One of the players has just been getting grumpier and grumpier about playing new games. He'll say he wants to play, and he'll listen to the rules, and he'll play, but then his grumpiness ends up just torpedoing the game (he'll ask the same question tens of times or just torpedo the game by not doing anything). One of these weeks I'm sure it's going to come to a pass where we just end up confronting him about it. I don't care if he doesn't want to play games, but don't prevent other people from playing games as well.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Tuscany has a huge number of bits, I'd say it's totally worth the extra money. It adds a ton more to the game just based on the shear number of games you would need to play to activate all the expansions.
E: Also, the metal coins are great. I realize it's a huge pile of money to just roll the dice on, but the metal coins are incredibly satisfying to play with.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Poison Mushroom posted:

There was another mini-boom when Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon got real big in the mid 2000s. I distinctly remember playing, aside from the popular ones like DBZ and Naruto, a Gash/Zatch Bell card game, a Dragon Booster CCG, and a loving History Channel trading card game.

I have an unopened box of Spongebob Squarepants the card game from 2004/2005ish, along with a precon deck.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Some Numbers posted:

I liked Euphoria a lot the one I played it. It's a worker placement game where your workers are dice and high numbers (of and on dice) are both good and bad. I think it's actually really cleverly designed and I wish it wasn't out of print and infinite dollars because I'd really like to play it again.

I would highly recommend giving it a shot if you get the chance.

2nd edition printing of Euphoria should hit stores in March, if not sooner. I got a post-kickstarter signed copy on order, and apparently the pallet(s) of games to be signed have already been shipped to Jamey to sign.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Man, the whole idea of doing a top 10 overrated games thing just kind or rubs me the wrong way, especially when you're going to do it to just poo poo on games you don't like.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Not sure if you can get them on their own anymore, but the Viticulture metal coins are pretty good, come in 1, 2, and 5 "Lira" increments. Lira is a pretty generic currency symbol so it sort of looks like dollars and pounds and Euros all at the same time, which is nice.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I'm sure Viticulture coins (as those are the ones I'm familiar with) are cheap pot metal, but they feel heavier/denser/"better" than standard American coinage and also have a much more satisfying "plink" sound when you drop one into a pile.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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I'm literally incapable of holding that many distinct opinions on that many games all at once.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Yeah I don't know, I should just vote for Tuscany because that's what I've played. That and Cash & Guns. Literally never played any other of those games. But I guess if a group of people want to assemble a giant list like that and think it means something, more power to them.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Also his two games are mobile games, not board games.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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jmzero posted:

Dominion is not like a collectible card game, other than that it has cards and is a game.

Like, if someone says a game is "like a CCG", I'd guess it's likely directly competitive (like you say above). Dominion has about the least direct interaction you can find in a game. It isn't directly competitive for any useful definition of "direct". Or, again, I might think you that you carry around a bunch of your stuff so that you can play against other people who are doing the same (like you do with Netrunner or X-Wing or pretty much all CCGs). You don't. Because it's not like a CCG.

I mean, there is a lot of cards... like there is in CCGs or Agricola (I keep my Agricola cards in a CCG box even!)... but that's hopelessly superficial and misleading. Would it help you to understand Agricola to be told it's like a CCG? If you replaced the board with more cards would it be like a CCG? Of course not. It means something for a game to be like a CCG, and lots of games are like CCGs, and Dominion is not like a CCG.

Unless, I guess, you figure the important, inherent part of a CCG is that it involves not just being a card game, but also "drawing cards and playing combos and stuff".. well then I guess Dominion (and Rummy and Catan) are CCGs.

If you're completely dense and you look at Dominion and what stands out to you is that it has cards and decks and drawing, then yeah it's "like a CCG." Which means you also don't really understand what Magic or another CCG is. Which means you're bad at games and have poo poo opinions. Which is fine, for 99% of people. But when you start going off on the theory of gaming but can't even engage with a game to actually understand it on any basic level, then you're just a poo poo person with poo poo opinions, because you don't realize how poo poo your opinions are and in fact that your opinions are completely enlightened.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Well Dumbass Game Designer said it originally, Sinewave was silly enough to agree with it and try and defend it. Which if "it's like a CCG" is a meaningful description of the game for Sinewave then that's a pretty verifiably poo poo opinion, but I don't believe Sinewave is a designer so that's basically fine. Plenty of people in the world are wrong about all manner of things.

The original point still stands, you can't possibly have anything meaningful to say about game design or mechanics if you can't even understand a game or its mechanics on any fundamental level.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Yeah. I don't really mind that he has awful opinions, but it's that he thinks his opinions are revolutionary and will change the world. People that disagree just aren't enlightened yet!

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Sent a link to reddit thread about the article to my gaming group, we're all getting a good laugh out of it.

Who cares if making fun of this guy isn't mechnically strong, it's just fun.

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FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

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Ok, I'd agree with the idea that before you know anything about anything, it's more useful then nothing to say it's "like a CCG" as long as that's known to mean that it has cards.

But if you're game designer? You sure as poo poo better know the difference between a Deck Builder and a CCG.

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