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3Romeo posted:Probably anyone who's read Treasure Island, is my guess. Hey, some of us can't be bothered to read Treasure Island and watched Muppet Treasure Island instead.
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Jan 26, 2015 09:40
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wizardstick posted:So glad this show is back, the Flint and Silver pairing is awesome. I think Ned's lines were monotone to try and drive home that he is as comfortable killing someone as he is saying hello. I can't speak to whether it worked though because I was too busy getting mad at Eleanor because I'll get really close to liking her, but then someone will threaten her and then she'll just feel threatened instead of lopping their head off (or paying a third party to do it for her). Realistically, I don't see her keeping control of her island if she can't openly confront people once things might get violent. Did they explain what happened to the Nite Crew of the Man O War that surely woke up once the shooting started? It seemed like there were too many of them for two dozen pirates to overpower.
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Jan 26, 2015 10:08
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Rocksicles posted:Flint's crew came aboard and murked all of them, how did you not see that? I saw them murder a bunch of guys, but even with the vast majority of crew on the beach doesn't a ship that size have something like 600 soldiers total? Even if they only left 5% of their crew onboard, they still outnumber the pirates. Maybe I just expected too much out of unarmed soldiers whose training may have consisted entirely of "here's how to put a metal ball into a cannon as fast as possible".
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Jan 26, 2015 21:45
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Lamadrid posted:They are playing fast and loose with the numbers.The spanish man of war has 100 cannons so 750+ sailors would not be weird.Taking any kind of boat with only 32 dudes is kinda silly. I can accept them taking a merchant vessel since most of the crew's training would probably involve being able to tie the poo poo out of a knot, but even 1v1 with the Spanish navy would probably result in a bunch of dead pirates even if they won. Note: I know very little about age-of-sail combat so I'm welcome to being proved wrong.
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Jan 26, 2015 23:13
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Gamesguy posted:The crew left on the ship are probably just sailors with little training or experience in close quarters fighting. It's also not that ahistorical, here is an instance where 100 British marines and sailors rowed up to a Spanish frigate with about 400 crew and took the ship while suffering only 11 wounded and none dead. 119 Spaniards were killed with the rest captured. I'm perfectly willing to accept as an answer that British navy (and English speaking pirates)>Spanish navy. Loomer posted:Bigger ships can actually be much faster than smaller ones that aren't built specially for speed. It's counterintuitive, but it has to do with length versus width giving them a more slender profile overall and with the volume of sail they can put out. Smaller ships can fly better around in poor conditions, but they will get run the gently caress down by a ship-of-the-line in other conditions. Cutters and clippers are exceptions but only by using the same principle: lots of sail, narrow designs. I read something on a monument of some kind in Key West that pirates used to use their smaller ships with shallower drafts to hide in areas too shallow for more heavily armed ships to navigate until the navy got some smaller ships. I guess it all depends on where the blue water navy finds you.
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Jan 27, 2015 05:03
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Lamadrid posted:You are willing to accept that one of the leading naval powers in the beginning of the 18th century was inferior to a bunch of pirates just for the fact that they speak english.One thing is losing to the Royal Navy and another pirates. Philip II spotted ITT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6aKZf0g06Y&t=7s Liam Emsa posted:So, did Flint intentionally feed him the information knowing that he'd attack the ship? I wonder what his plan was if they actually had listened to him. I think his entire plan relied on his detractors thinking he'd be up to something so when he gave them sound advise they would do the opposite to try and thwart his plans.
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Feb 2, 2015 07:08
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Oasx posted:I am having a little hard time accepting that they would just accept the captain back so quickly, they were pretty close to killing him after all. So far this seasons seems to be much less boring Nasau politics, and much more pirating and fighting, which is a big improvement. I'd say it is in "implausible" territory, but Flint did manage to orchestrate the capture of a Man o War and then they discovered that without his leadership they're just a bunch of random assholes that can tie knots pretty well...and then they all remember that their ship was sunk after they ignored his orders (which would have still likely gotten them sunk/killed). Did the Ranger get away, or were they also sunk and then combined with the Walrus crew?
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Feb 2, 2015 11:19
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Rocksicles posted:Yeah my mistake. i forgot about that that. Vane is going to be so happy that Flint took his ship from him and destroyed it. I need to watch this show from the beginning again. As I recall, a lot of the "Charles Vane is the bad guy" stuff seemed to be based on him trying to bring down Flint, who we now know to be a dick anyway. Regardless of how I feel about Flint/Vane, I would totally like Vane (with or without Guthrie's permission) to decide to take Flint's haul once he returns, only to see Flint sail into port with his extra-bigass warship. "Erm...nevermind"
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Feb 2, 2015 11:50
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Xoidanor posted:Wouldn't a man-o-war even with its hundreds of cannons be utterly incapable of dealing with a stone-fort perched on a hill? Probably, but it would be more likely to do a fair amount of damage before being destroyed that it might not be worth it. Besides, for all Vane knows, the full crews of the Walrus and Ranger are intact. I'm still wondering if they intend to use the ship as is or part it out to refit the pirate fleet. They did an entire episode about Flint needing to steal bigger guns and now he has enough to sell to every pirate in the area.
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Feb 3, 2015 00:34
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think he's gonna man it fully and sail right back to that beach with all 90 guns blazing. I was thinking about after his current mission was over, but forgot that by then he'd either be dead or have so much gold that he wouldn't really give a poo poo about his new ship. Now that I think about it, Flint coming back to Nassau might interfere a bit with Vane's plans to get back into Guthrie's Speaking of Guthrie, I know her position is somewhat unstable now that she doesn't have her father's legitimacy to cling to anymore and a lot of pirates didn't like her throwing her weight around by deposing Vane, but whats stopping her from putting a price on Ned Low's head? I'd imagine if a pirate was threatening a fellow pirate in the same way, it would be expected for one of them to kill the other. poo poo, most casual observers would assume the the person manning the fort was working for the island's owner anyway, so nobody would be really surprised if she just paid Vane and his men to go get rid of Ned (which she would probably do if Vane wasn't working the ex-boyfriend angle so hard). In my opinion, Eleanor Guthrie's options are: Easy way: chill at fort until Ned leaves for pirating then issue orders that his ship be sunk on sight should it return. Better way: Pay someone to kill Ned, put Ned's severed head on pike outside office or at docks as warning to the next person to try and threaten her. Most effective but dangerous way: Invite Ned into office and then surprise him with pistol(s) hidden under desk. Severed head on pike. Way show will probably go for: Some convoluted scheme involving Vane stealing Ned's white woman for himself that leads to a confrontation between the two. Probably complicated by Flint returning to port. Takes all season and doesn't involve Ned's head on a pike. I like the head pike options best because it would help explain to random pirates why they need to listen to her (especially if she kills Ned herself and then starts wearing pistols around town). "Oh, you want a better deal than the one I'm offering? Go ask Ned Low what happened when he tried to renegotiate by force."
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Feb 3, 2015 01:35
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Well, that and the fact that Low kills/tortures people because he enjoys it whereas the other captains kill because someone's continued existence is incompatible with their goals. From what I can remember of captains killing their own crew: Flint killed a man in a fair fight because he was trying to take over as captain and killed his quartermaster as painlessly as possible after he refused to obey orders. I don't remember Vane killing any of his crew, but I'm sure he probably did. Ned Low publicly tortured and beheaded his quartermaster for talking to a business contact of theirs (he was actually trying to depose Low, but for all Low knew he was just trying to smooth things over so they can get paid next time they come to port).
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Feb 4, 2015 08:48
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Solice Kirsk posted:Well, Mr. Meeks does say he was trying to protect the crew and all but confirmed Low's suspicions. Really, it was Meeks' fault when you think about it. Was asking for it, if you will. I agree that Meeks didn't answer that question properly (although it still could have been taken as "I tried to smooth things over even though you didn't want me to because its best for the crew") but they weren't engaged in a combat situation or even at sea. Meeks' fate should have been put to a vote that would probably have seen him kicked off the crew (possibly with an rear end-beating).
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Feb 5, 2015 00:28
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Party Plane Jones posted:The 'rules' are really more like guidelines in actuality, Vane was notorious for stealing from his crews. I meant "should have" more as what a normal pirate would have done (although I did check to see if irl Ned Low had a rule about it). I just think that if everyone wants the show to take place more on ships, then we're going to have to let them tell-and-not-show that Ned is a bit of a psycho for now.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:45
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Well that's what I get for underestimating the show, and Vane's ability to be so good at piracy as to steal my idea. Too bad for Eleanor Guthrie that she didn't show up with a big bag of money to pay Vane to do that, then the sign would have said "I angered Eleanor Guthrie" and she would have been in a much better political position. Still happy with how things turned out though. Now I'm not sure how to call the next story though, since the obvious solution would be for both Flint and Vane to just agree that neither wants Vane in charge of the fort and they both have to skip out of town to go make a bunch of money.
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Feb 8, 2015 07:10
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Aphrodite posted:Also Vane isn't planning on hanging out in the fort anymore. Well, the logical thing to do would be for him to vacate the fort, since nobody (including Vane) wants him there except maybe Eleanor Guthrie (I don't think even she knows what she wants most of the time). However, I could see Flint issuing an ultimatum to vacate the fort and then Vane being forced to defend it so nobody gets the impression that someone ordered him around. I'm really wondering where Eleanor Guthrieis is going to land on this. On the one hand, she has a huge deal in progress with Flint, but she's currently grateful to Vane for saving her and she supported Vane's takeover of the fort because the previous tenant was telling her what to do.
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Feb 9, 2015 16:19
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nooneofconsequence posted:Eleanor has already seen that Vane probably isn't the best choice for long-term colony stability with his "let's incur the wrath of the Carolinas governor, a man who hates pirates." Say what you will about Flint, but he and Eleanor still have the same end goal in mind. Vane just wants to be a pirate. I fully expect her to smuggle the governor's daughter out of the fort next episode. I agree with this except that Eleanor frequently makes stupid decisions regarding both her exes on the show so I find her hard to predict. Well, that and her plot-line of being in a bit over her head and making mistakes because of it.
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Feb 9, 2015 19:51
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Horse Divorce posted:If Flint's men get on the island and get caught up on current events, he's in for yet another mutiny. Vane's latest act of savagery has to be the single most effective act of peacekeeping in the history of Nassau. Yeah, the guys who had to be educated during the "we're on a Spanish warship" scene should be easy enough to convince that Vane killed a pirate crew just to steal their poo poo.
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Feb 10, 2015 06:24
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Capn Beeb posted:More like security gets repeatedly smashed in the face with a cannonball Speaking of, I liked the fake out of positioning Rackham within arm's reach of the same line of cannonballs during his fight right before he won.
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Mar 6, 2015 20:03
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Mans posted:Kinda sucks how the whole episode had zero Jack. I'm linking Vane more than I used to, but I have to call bullshit on his claim that he killed Ned for Eleanor. If that had been his primary motivation he could have just told his crew that he wanted to steal a ship to go make some money with and he'd picked Ned's because Ned was new in town and didn't have any allies, not to mention it would be advantageous to make their only customer (Eleanor) happy.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:46
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Rocksicles posted:Captain Vane's crew are Navy SEALs So they used stealth Black hawk helicopters then?
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Mar 15, 2015 16:57
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Rocksicles posted:He got off the buggy when the horses stopped in the previous episode, and all Vanes men were standing there in the fog. I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it, and the elder Guthrie is too nondescript for me to remember what he looks like until I figure out his identity from context. Maybe Father Guthrie had a boat that Vane used?
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Mar 16, 2015 07:00
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Mans posted:drat what an episode. Eleanor has been a trainwreck this season and her being sentenced as "queen of thieves" would probably be better for her name than the on-going "fail to do a single plot and depend on pirates to murder each other". Not sure how she's going to be saved right now. I don't know, her "Kill everyone" plan looked like it would have worked had Anne not recovered from her funk just in time. ...of course she still would have been taken hostage considering neither she nor the other most important person on the island were traveling with bodyguards. I am surprised though that a) Hornigold and his men actually got pardons and not murdered and b) that Flint didn't kill anybody before being taken down. I'm sure the colonel will be murdered much more satisfyingly during the escape. Fun fact: my spell-check thinks "Hornigold" should be spelled "Ornithology". Hornigold and Ben Bailey: Accidental Ornithologists
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Mar 23, 2015 19:13
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Because the British Navy has been repeatedly shown "making example" of pirates and it doesn't sound like they plan on sparing/pardoning any additional pirates. They may have thought it useful psychological warfare to show that pirates aren't safe from the Royal Navy even in Nassau, but that's probably why Hornigold brought everyone with him. Keep in mind that these are basically the same people and thought processes that lead to "An unarmed woman is raising her voice from the other side of a ~6ft desk. I'd better threaten to shoot her" and "An unarmed woman has now raised her voice for a second time, I'd better shoot her."
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Mar 23, 2015 20:30
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