Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

semper wifi posted:

Shooting itself looks legit to me

Well that there is a statement.

Like, you agree that a shooting happened?

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 12:33

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 11:11

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Pohl posted:

Policing is without a doubt dangerous work

It is not. The least bit of effort would have shown you this. 27 deaths in the entire year 2013. 48 in 2012.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/november/in-the-line-of-duty-2013-leoka-report-released/in-the-line-of-duty-2013-leoka-report-released

It is stressful work, not particularly dangerous. Being a garbage man is dangerous work. So is being a fisherman, a truck driver, or a rancher.

The actually dangerous jobs tend to pay less, and dont allow the worker the state sanctioned privilege of murdering people when they are in a bad mood.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/

quote:

Each year thousands of U.S. workers die from injuries on the job. In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics� National Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries shows a preliminary total of 4,383 fatal work injuries in 2012, down slightly from the final count of 4,693 in 2011.

...

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

As someone else mentioned, "driving a car" is one of the contributions to LEO deaths, and when you remove that the number is even lower.

You also have to parse official statements like: "Six of the slain officers were off-duty but felt duty-bound to intercede and were acting in an official capacity at the time of the incidents." to figure out if they were helping a poor victim, or drunk at a bar and pulled out their gun.

Police are becoming more and more violent, while the nation becomes less.

This is a crappy article, but gives enough to search from there:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/10/us-usa-crime-fbi-idUSKCN0IU1UM20141110

quote:

U.S. violent crimes including murders fell 4.4 percent in 2013 to their lowest number since the 1970s, continuing a decades-long downturn, the FBI said on Monday.

...

In an analysis, the non-profit Pew Charitable Trusts said the drop in crime coincided with a decline in the prison population, with the number of U.S. prisoners down 6 percent in 2013 from its peak in 2008.

Thirty-two of the 50 states have seen a drop in crime rates as the rate of imprisonment fell, Pew said.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 16:20

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Job Truniht posted:

Start with this: How many police officers die each year vs. total amount of police officers in service?

The FBI LEOKA reports will give you this in nauseating detail. The only secrets are how many citizens the cops kill each year.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 16:21

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Jarmak posted:

Actually there were 102 deaths in 2013, but good job taking the "murdered" number and passing it off as the "total deaths" number, the smugness about how easy it was to find correct numbers as you gave wrong numbers was a nice touch. You're also quoting the year with the lowest number of police fatalities on record, 2014 was 126 and 2011 was 171.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/30/373985338/report-number-of-police-officers-killed-spikes-in-2014

Feloniously killed is relevant. Dying in a car accident while talking on a cell phone is less relevant.

You can shove the propaganda project "National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund" up your rear end. Stick to the FBI stats.

The LEOKA reports contain breakdowns of every reported death, accidental or felonious, on duty or off duty "in an official capacity". The 2014 numbers are not yet compiled. Which you dont know because you didnt look.

Your poo poo posting wont change any of the numbers.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 18:43

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Ima Grip And Sip posted:

Apparently in the race to super-ftp-smug nobody noticed the fishermen and construction worker stats include a lot of medical related deaths.

Nobody argues that fishermen and construction workers should be allowed to execute people "because they felt like it" due to the "extreme risk" of their jobs. Even though their jobs are riskier.

The entire discussion hinges on the pay and leniency for committing violent crimes that LEOs give each other ~~as a part of their gang code~~ to make up for their "risky jobs".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiS4JQF90js

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFAFqf5lOCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSo37wpKaNI

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 22:08

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Jarmak posted:

A substantial part of the danger from police work is from people trying to kill you, none of the danger of logging is from people trying to kill you.

A substantial danger as a citizen of the United States is interacting with cops who can kill you on a whim and then take a paid vacation.

Should citizens be empowered to kill cops when they ~~make~~ "are perceived to make" a verbal or physical threat?

(Obviously not. And "trained" officers should be held accountable for murder when they execute people. In fact, their "training" which is the excuse they give for jailing innocent people, killing innocent people, and breaking various laws "based on their professional judgement" should be held against them when they egregiously fail to behave as non-monsters.)

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 22:59

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

Zero percent of the risk in most professions comes from people actively trying to harm you due to your profession, and very few involve an obligation to engage with drunk, unstable, or actively violent criminals. Law enforcement is exceptional in this regard, so I don't know why you keep bringing up lumberjacks.
According to that link, the vast majority of black homicide victims were killled by men they knew, not the police, so...

Law enforcement is pathetic in this regard. Ask anyone that has worked the floor at a locked psychiatric facility. (I was one.) The scared little piglets woudnt even walk inside past the lobby when they wanted to question someone because we demanded they leave their guns outside of the resident area.

If a small number of "not specially trained, non-cops" can restrain extremely strong and literally psychotic individuals then the armored gang should be able to do it without gunning people down to get their dicks hard.

The reason they have so many excuses for executing people is because that is their preference. The first time this came to general public attention was when that "Most Dangerous Gang" (or whatever it was called) expose hit social media a few years ago and they had a cop on camera essentially admit to killing someone who was burned and bloody from a car accident "because he looked gross".

(Speaking of psych work - it pays nothing compared to LEO salaries and requires more contact, and more restraint than is expected of the cops.)

When a cop makes a decision to kill someone they should be investigated up one side and down the other to check for a failure in judgement (of any kind). They are trusted with public force and should be held extremely loving accountable for its use. If their excuse is "I didnt make a decision I just reacted" then they should be put at a desk permanently, fired, or imprisoned depending on the nature of the failure.

Corporate America wants cops who are dumb, violent, and obedient to their masters. The citizens need cops who are smart, thoughtful, and restrained. This is a serious battle.

edit - This is reflected more and more with the military faux-warzone training and mindset of the people that are supposed to be here to serve and protect the citizens.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 20, 2015

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 23:20

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Patrick Spens posted:

Note that I just grabbed the data for 2014 at random, if anyone has data that spans over several years that would be cool to see. So I would say that between 40 and 44 percent of all fatalities being homicides would be a substantial portion of the danger.

Until the LEOKA report for 2014 that number is bullshit.

You can go grab the numbers for preceding years though.

I know this was a typo but it is in the spirit of the propaganda:

quote:

126 cops died in 2016

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 23:26

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

On a happy note, one criminal cop was busted.

This guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSaDu1Eh2E

He never got busted for robbery while in loving uniform, but he did get busted for threatening to kill people while off-duty.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/karma-cop-legally-robbed-people-cash-arrested-assault-deadly-weapon/

quote:

The irony here is that while Dove was assaulting people with a gun and stealing from them, while on-duty, he escaped all accountability. But when he assaults people with a weapon, while off-duty, he is then arrested.

According to police, Dove, 47, was arrested in response to a dispatch call about a man with a gun at a gas station. He was charged with drawing a deadly weapon in a threatening manner and assault with a deadly weapon.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 23:35

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Jarmak posted:

Calling the NLEOMF propaganda doesn't make it so

Jarmak posted:

the fact that they are pro-police

Yes yes. They are quite Fair and Balanced.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 04:10

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

So orderlies can corral known and mostly medicated mental patients in a treatment facility where their physical movement and access to weapons is strictly controlled. This is comparable to the dangers faced by law enforcement because...

Your ignorance is deafening.

Poor cops. Poor poor cops. So scared. So weak.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/18/video-dallas-police-shooting-mentally-ill-black-man

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 04:12

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Pohl posted:

Related story that showed up on the page:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/29/kristiana-coignard-video-shows-texas-police-station-shooting
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/28/kristiana-coignard-longview-texas-police-killing

The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIS1Knpvs0&feature=player_detailpage
Short news story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEm3fxNSwK4

Well the important thing is that the beleaguered heroes got their prize after gunning down another kid!

quote:

What is clear, nearly a week later in Texas and six months after police killings and community relations starting coming under renewed scrutiny across the US, is that another teenager has died after being shot �multiple times� by local cops. Three officers are on paid leave, the Longview police told the Guardian. A preliminary autopsy report has ruled the death a homicide.

Killing kids is hard man. You need some full-pay no-work time to get drunk and threaten to kill people out of that dreary uniform.

Look at that scary monster they were dealing with. A room full of "warriors" would have no choice but to start blasting.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 05:41

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

tsa posted:

Professionals in secured medical facilities where the person is unarmed and the professionals have complete knowledge of the person's condition not-infrequently encounter life threatening situations due to how unpredictable mentally ill people can be.

First off "unarmed" is not something you can rely on, ever.

Aside from that - you must subdue them without killing them and without causing needless harm. If unarmed (presumably - ha!) less fit and less trained (again - ha!) mental health workers can manage this daily then surely the Mighty Proud Knights of Law can manage it when they are traveling in a pack and out-weigh, out-muscle, and out-armor the ~~teenage girl~~ victim.

Jarmak posted:

I agree it was poor judgement, but at that point he was probably still thinking he's dealing with an unarmed teenage girl that not much of a threat and decided to keep trying to deescalate the situation in much the same way people in this thread keep saying cops should do more of (I mean the first reaction of this thread was "look at this harmless little white girl the cops couldn't deal with without shooting).

Your poor incompetent murderer-hero just couldnt handcuff her because he was overcome by her teenage girl charm. :rolleyes:

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 21:48

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

nm posted:

I'd rather argue about whether being a cop ia dangerious.

Diabetes and heart disease are dangerous!

# ¿ Mar 22, 2015 20:48

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Zeitgueist posted:

Pulled her over for DWB and then gaslighted her and called her hysterical when she justifiably got upset.

So many layers of hosed up.

Also don't they usually commit the police whistleblowers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

quote:

After voicing his concerns, Schoolcraft was reportedly harassed and reassigned to a desk job. After he left work early one day, an ESU unit illegally entered his apartment, physically abducted him and forcibly admitted him to a psychiatric facility, where he was held against his will for six days.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/nyregion/whistle-blower-police-officer-had-backup-secret-recordings.html?_r=0

quote:

The decision to take him to the hospital was made solely by armed men who happened to be his superior officers in the Police Department with a vested interest in shutting him up.

For more than a year, Officer Schoolcraft had been collecting information about what appeared to be illegal arrests and manipulation of crime statistics in the 81st Precinct, in Brooklyn. Along the way, he secretly recorded orders from supervisors to lock up people without cause. He also documented cases in which armed robberies were classified as �lost property� cases. A few weeks before he was seized in his home, he met with investigators for the Internal Affairs Bureau and told them about what he had uncovered. He began recording after his bosses accused him of loafing because he was not meeting their goals for arrests and summonses.

To date, neither Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg nor Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly have publicly discussed why Officer Schoolcraft was thrown into a psychiatric ward.

...

�Recording devices, and everything else,� Chief Marino said. �So he�s playing a game here. Cute.�

In fact, another recorder, on a bookshelf, was still running. �It didn�t have to be like this,� Chief Marino is heard saying.

At that moment, the lawsuit charges, the chief had his boot on Officer Schoolcraft�s face.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 01:47

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Every year the same apologists run and hide when we shift from philosophy and highschool gotcha debate to actual videos, images, and recent history.

And people wonder why cops hate cameras.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 01:56

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Zeitgueist posted:

They literally moved the trial hundreds of miles away.

Also getting an all-white anything in LA, outside of maybe Beverly Hills, is a feat.

Let us not forget the old standby Simi Valley. (For when you desperately need a just-out-of-LA all white jury.)

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 07:04

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

One good thing about RT is that they delight in covering things US media likes to skimp on. Their propagandist drive is a decent counterbalance to ours with some of these stories.

http://rt.com/usa/245725-philadelphia-racketeering-conspiracy-trial-begins/

quote:

In the trial for six ex-Pennsylvania narcotics officers accused of conspiracy, robbery, extortion, kidnapping and drug dealing during a six-year racketeering scheme, opening statements began with a verbal sparring match between the lawyers.

The former Philadelphia police officers were charged with committing a variety of crimes between February 2006 and November 2012, among them beatings, threatening to shoot suspects, busting into homes without warrants to steal drugs and money, and the distribution of narcotics.

...

The case began when the FBI started to investigate Philadelphia�s Narcotics Field Unit and conducted two undercover sting operations, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported. Walker was nabbed during the second sting, and began to cooperate with the federal investigators, telling them of cases where he and the other officers stole money or drugs, physically abused suspects or committed other crimes.

In one instance, the officers allegedly held a drug suspect over a balcony railing of an 18th-floor apartment during an interrogation. In another case, the six officers kidnapped a drug suspect and held him in a hotel room for days while making threats to his family, federal prosecutors said, adding that the officers often attempted to cover their activities by falsifying police reports.

...

The six men are also the subjects of at least 81 federal lawsuits filed between November 2011 and August 2014, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

Team cop-defense has a really good story though:

quote:

McMahon lambasted the government�s 19 primary witnesses, calling them "trashy," "disreputable," "greedy," "sociopathic" and "odoriferous," among other descriptions.

"If you have 19 bags of trash," he told jurors, "you don't have better trash. You just have a pile of trash."

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 07:07

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

"I was stressed and trying to get to work and doing 50 in a 45."

:cop:

"No problem! Accidents happen and I certainly dont want to take two days pay from you!"

A thing that no one expects to happen.

But shoot a restrained kid in the back of the head because "WOOPS!" ... Hey man we feel bad for you now. Killing restrained kids is rough! Here have a tax-funded vacation.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 16:46

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

Who is going to pay for it? Regular force-on-force classes aren't cheap, and are going to difficult to justify in the context of limited budgets when most police will never fire their guns outside the range.

Maybe they can cancel their paramilitary thug classes, their war on drug steal-poo poo classes, and their "how to talk the press after you murder a kid" classes in the interest of the public they serve?

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 06:40

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Rah! posted:

Inmates at a San Francisco jail were forced into "gladiator-style fights" by sheriff's deputies who bet on the outcomes, according to a public defender.

Im an OG cynic in these threads, and Im a little surprised at them being that ham-handed after Corcoran went public (in CA) not that long ago.

That said, apparently warnings from history dont work so the obvious solution is to gut the entire prison staff en masse and hang them beside the road on the off ramps.

edit: Corcoran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Prison,_Corcoran#History
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/staged-fights-betting-guards-gunfire-and-death-for-the-gladiators-1310849.html

quote:

Violent inmates at California's top maximum-security jail were paired off in staged fights as watching prison guards bet on the outcomes, the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday.

In some cases, prisoners who refused to stop fighting were shot dead. In a ritual that became known as "gladiator days", known enemies at Corcoran State Prison were released from their cells and paired off like fighting cocks in empty prison yards.

The fights became such events that officers of other units were called as spectators.

... Guards and inmates described macabre scenes in which prison officers gathered in control booths overlooking cramped exercise yards in advance of fights, which were sometimes delayed so that female guards and even prison secretaries could be present.

Oh wait! They did learn their lesson!

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/10/news/mn-39555

quote:

Eight Corcoran prison guards accused of setting up inmate gladiator fights were acquitted Friday of federal civil rights abuses, a resounding verdict that all but ends one of the most troubled chapters in California prison history.

After nine weeks of testimony, jurors deliberated just six hours before clearing the officers of charges that they encouraged rival prisoners to square off and fight--fights that sometimes ended with guards firing deadly shots.

Lesson learned.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Apr 2, 2015

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 06:43

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Mighty Warriors of Good doing some Good.

http://www.alternet.org/13-outrageous-cases-drug-war-policing-corruption-week

quote:

13 Outrageous Acts By Drug War Cops Just This Week

... In Fresno, California, the Fresno deputy police chief was arrested last Thursday as part of a federal drug conspiracy investigation.

... In Chattanooga, Tennessee, a Catoosa County sheriff's deputy was arrested last Thursday after an acquaintance called police to say he had stolen prescription drugs from him.

... In Prescott Valley, Arizona, a former Prescott Valley Police commander was arrested last Thursday on charges he was stealing drugs discarded by the public as part of a drug take-back program.

... In North Haverhill, New Hampshire, a former Grafton County jail guard was arrested last Thursday on charges he delivered heroin to prisoners.

... In Huntsville, Tennessee, a former Scott County sheriff's deputy was arrested Tuesday for allegedly breaking into the evidence room and stealing drugs.

... In Miami, a former NYPD officer pleaded guilty last Friday to traveling to Florida and providing security for a $200,000 cocaine deal that turned out to be a federal drug sting.

... In Washington, Pennsylvania, a former state court judge pleaded guilty last Friday to stealing cocaine that he had ordered police to keep in his chambers instead of the evidence room.

... In Washington, DC, a former FBI agent pleaded guilty Monday to charges related to stealing heroin from evidence bags.

... In Las Cruces, New Mexico, a former Dona Ana County jail guard pleaded guilty Tuesday to plotting to distribute heroin, cocaine, and meth within the jail.

... In Miami, a former Miami-Dade police internal affairs lieutenant pleaded guilty Tuesday to working with cocaine smugglers to smuggle guns through airport security.

... In Birmingham, Alabama, a former Winston County sheriff's deputy was sentenced last Friday to nearly four years in federal prison for threatening a woman with an arrest warrant unless she agreed to cook meth for him.

... In Bridgeton, New Jersey, a former Bayside State Prison guard was sentenced Tuesday to seven years in state prison for selling drugs to inmates.

... In Titusville, Florida, a former Titusville police officer was sentenced Tuesday to 10 years in federal prison for arranging drug deals.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 02:52

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/witnesses-police-let-k-9-maul-handcuffed-unconscious-mans-face-they-beat-him-death

quote:

One of the officers is heard on the dispatch recording saying �Subject under�tried to disarm me.�

quote:

Ricardo Garcia, another eyewitness, is outraged. �The guy was out cold,� stated Garcia. �They punched him, stomped him, kicked him and then they let the dog out of the car. The dog bit him on his face and around his body. There�s no call for that. Once a man is handcuffed and unconscious, you should have stuck him in the patrol car and take him to the police station. Instead, they decided to beat him right here.�

White was taken into custody around 11am Tuesday morning and died shortly thereafter.

Eventually people will literally start fighting for their lives when approached by ~~cops~~ death squads, and the Blue Gang will cry about their "daily danger" to every media outlet they can wring time out of.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 16:31

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Speaking of job danger...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cine-study.html

quote:

Study reveals cops are the most obese workers in America

Their job is to protect and serve � but it seems some police officers interpret this as an excuse to enjoy too many extra servings at the lunch table.

A study has revealed US cops have the highest rates of obesity among any profession in the country.

Along with firefighters and security guards, nearly 41 per cent of boys in blue are obese, according to a study in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine.

Not just scared but slow fat and scared.

Americops are literally fatter than the buttertrolls that work in the software industry at desks covered in soda bottles and dorito bags.

quote:

Police officers, firefighters and security guards could do with taking it easy on the doughnuts, says the study

We could expect them to show "restraint" or "sound judgement" .. naw. We all know thats not part of their job!

Lets do this instead! :

quote:

Some firms have started trying to tackle the problem by paying for employees� weight-loss surgery,

At least we know why they shoot everybody. They are literally in danger from running.

edit: Its also interesting from the intelligence-vs-restraint angle. Scientists are the least fat. Cops are the most fat. Maybe the hiring process should be re-examined for what it is selecting for.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 4, 2015

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 17:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

happyhippy posted:

Can't see that working in the US.
As everyone would be executed instantly to save costs therefore profits!

The prison lobby pushes to keep beds full.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 10:59

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/south_carolina_cop_radioed_six_seconds_after_hitting_victim_20150409

quote:

Analysis of the police radio shows Slager, the officer who shot at Scott eight times, making the radio call announcing the shots and alleging the Taser seizure, sounding frantic and breathless at the same time as he walks slowly towards Scott�s body.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/walter-scott-might-still-be-alive-if-police-had-taken-another-black-mans-claims-about-cop-seriously/

quote:

Walter Scott might still be alive if police had taken another black man�s claims about cop seriously

... Mario Givens, a black North Charleston man, told the Associated Press on Wednesday that Slager had roughed him up during a 2013 investigation, when the officer came to his door and demanded to come inside without saying why he was there.

��Come outside or I�ll tase you,�� Givens said the officer told him as he barged in. �I didn�t want that to happen to me, so I raised my arms over my head, and when I did, he tased me in my stomach, anyway.�

Givens was initially accused of resisting the officers, but he was later released without charge.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 14:30

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Agrajag posted:

Free will certainly isn't a thing, nope.

Less than people wish it was. Every study of criminogenic factors comes to the same conclusion. You can create/breed criminality simply by making people poor and then oppressing them relative to the perceived society at large.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 05:39

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Its a hot news month for the coppers.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/protests-explode-after-kkk-plot-kill-black-men-florida-prison-exposed

quote:

Protests Explode After KKK Plot to Kill Black Men in Florida Prison Is Exposed

Two of the suspects involved were officers at the Florida Department of Corrections.

Last week, the state of Florida arrested three alleged members of the Ku Klux Klan who had plotted to kill an African American inmate after he was released from prison. While white supremacist terror plots are not uncommon, this one had a peculiar twist: two of the suspects involved were officers at the Florida Department of Corrections.

...

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/family-releases-dashcam-cops-killing-mentally-ill-son-his-underwear-holding-broom

quote:

Family Releases Dashcam of Cops Killing Mentally Ill Son in His Underwear for Holding a Broom

... The family of Lavall Hall, a 25-year-old mentally ill man killed by Miami Gardens Officer Eddo Trimino, chose to release dashcam footage of the February 15 incident on Wednesday evening. They maintain that it proves excessive force and that Trimino had no reason to leave an 8-year-old girl without a father. This is the second killing by the officer in two years.

... Unable to get him in the house, his mother called 9-1-1 for assistance to get her son back to the hospital, as he had only been released one week prior. She says that the police were aware of her son�s condition as they had responded to calls for medical assistance at her home in the past, and that she repeatedly told the officers that he was schizophrenic and bipolar on this evening.

�Don�t hurt my child,� the mother asked the officers before the encounter. The officers were heard mocking her plea in the video.

The department claims that Hall attacked officers with the broomstick and that two officers had fired tasers at him which were ineffective. The family maintains that this was a murder and that the police had no intention of leaving the scene with him alive.

In the video, the officer is heard screaming �get on the f�ing ground or you�re dead.� He then fires his service weapon pointed slightly downwards four times, then moving closer for a fifth shot.

Hall is not seen in the frame. After repeatedly shooting Hall, the officer callously screams at the fatally injured man to put his hands behind his back.

...

Its like the dogs are trained to attack or something.

Oh yeah, and on that last one:

quote:

A lawyer for the family alleges that ever since the Chief of Police was recently caught soliciting a prostitute and fired from the department, they have received no updates on the case. They no longer know who is even in charge of it. They also believe there is more footage that the department is withholding.

Its like the entire police culture of America is ...?

We will all soon be safe from "filming police committing crimes" if NY has any say in the matter.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/04/eric-garner-video-ramsey-orta-rikers

quote:

The Guy Who Filmed Eric Garner's Death Is Still Fighting To Get Out of Jail

It's been a rough eight months for the man who shot the video of Eric Garner's death. Since Garner was killed by a police officer's chokehold on a Staten Island sidewalk last July, Ramsey Orta, the 23-year-old who filmed the scene, has been arrested twice and has spent the past two months in Rikers Island.

...

Orta also fears that jail officials will try to poison him. "He's not eating the food that Rikers provides him," one of his attorneys, William Aronin, says. "Instead, he's surviving right now off of candy bars, chips, things he can get on the vending machine or the commissary. He's hungry, he is not happy, and he is scared."

...

Orta has reportedly been arrested 27 times since 2009 for alleged offenses including drug possession, robbery, and fare evasion. His attorneys say the majority of the arrests have not led to charges, and that they believe Orta's claims of being unfairly targeted are viable.

Or maybe that dude "needed" arresting 27 times with almost no charges filed?

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 23:35

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Zeitgueist posted:

I think that while police aren't literally members of the Klan these days

Well - while that may be more true than before you picked a bad day to say so..!

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/protests-explode-after-kkk-plot-kill-black-men-florida-prison-exposed

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 02:18

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Accretionist posted:

Yeah, there's huge variation. After 6 months, a Seattle cop's at ~$75,000. My Florida buddy's D&D group has a career cop making $26,000.

Before the recession I saw an ad for a ~~ticket monkey~~ ~~meter maid~~ Parking Enforcement spot in LA that was over 70k.

I also had a senior officer tell me that when he travels out of State he never discusses salary with other officers. Apparently it produces friction.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 16:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Sportsfans are good at making noise. Maybe this will do something.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/203937/so-nypd-just-broke-nba-players-leg

quote:

So... the NYPD Just Broke an NBA Player�s Leg

... Sefolosha�s damaged fibula comes after a season when NBA players spent last winter making statements against police violence, after the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner.

... The police version, to quote ESPN�s original article, was, �Sefolosha sustained the injury while resisting arrest outside a Manhattan night club early Wednesday morning.

... We do have a videotape of what took place, but all it reveals is multiple police officers jumping the rail-thin 6'7" 220 pound Sefolosha. Ironically, or tellingly, his fellow-arrestee, Pero Antic, has an appearance we�ll describe as ornately terrifying. Tattooed, bald, seven feet tall and over 260 pounds, he is a Macedonian guy who happens to be white. Sefolosha is a Swiss guy who happens to be black. The terrifying seven-footer walked away and the guy from Switzerland was jumped. Whether or not racial bias was involved, the optics of this are very familiar to anyone who has followed the methodologies of the NYPD.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 17:01

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

I don't think making sure every deputy has a 1600 () on the SAT would improve law enforcement in this country

Pretty sure it would at least improve it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
http://www.aele.org/apa/jordan-newlondon.html

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 06:35

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

"Yes, if only more people who are good at ScanTron tests were walking around with guns.

Yes that is exactly what people think.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Clearly they are the better sort of person we want cleaning up our streets."

We sure are better off with fat, scared people with poor critical thinking skills! America is full of win! :patriot:

Dead Reckoning posted:

The reason the department instituted the upper limit was because they didn't want their patrol officers to have the same turnover rate as McDonalds cashiers..

I have read the same thing several times over several years. Unlike you I dont believe it.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 07:06

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Dead Reckoning posted:

You don't believe that the most qualified officers are likely to jump ship to better paying, more prestigious gigs with State and Federal agencies if given the opportunity?

Many adults (especially with families) are not extremely willing to relocate unless they are under duress. I am sure the pressure to leave would be greater in the cow tipping areas that are paying 12-15/hr for full time LEOs, but not so much in areas that are paying 50-70k/yr+. That is a problem with the payscales - not a reason to purposefully exclude intelligent people from the loving career.

The reason they are excluded is more likely: "do as youre told, keep your mouth shut, dont ask questions". All of which are contraindicated by predilections towards increased critical thinking.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 07:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I'm not sure there's anything about knowing how to de-escalate situations or an appropriate knowledge of conflict resolution techniques that requires a high IQ or a high level of academic achievement.

Conflict resolution requires some degree of "psychological mindedness" ("Can reflect on (i.e. observe and experience at the same time) a full range of own and others' feelings or experiences (including subtle variations in feelings). Can reflect both in the present and with reference to a longer-term view of self, values, and goals. Can reflect on multiple relationships between feelings and experiences, across the full range of age-expected experiences in the context of new challenges.") that the murderers this thread is discussing dont seem to have (or employ). As well as a concern for, you know, ethics, repercussions, children who now lost a parent, and other things.

Too many current cops seem to delight in the fact that gunning someone down gets them a paid vacation and an adrenaline high.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/listen-to-officer-michael-slager-laugh-about-the-adrenaline-rush-from-shooting-walter-scott/

quote:

A voice, reportedly Slager�s, asks, �What happens next?�

�Probably once they get you there, we�ll take you home,� he is told. �Take your crap off, take your vest off, kind of relax for two or three. It�ll be real quick. They�re gonna tell you you�re gonna be out for a couple of days and you�ll come back and they�ll interview you then. They�re not going to ask you any kind of questions right now. They�ll take your weapon and we�ll go from there.�

As Slager agrees, acknowledging the advice, the other officer continues.

�By the time you get home, it would probably be a good idea to kind of jot down your thoughts on what happened. You know, once the adrenaline quits pumping.�

A calm-sounding Slager replies, �It�s pumping,� punctuating it with a laugh.

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Please articulate why you believe the standard entrance exams for police applicants should be more academically challenging.

It is not impossible to design some kind of special-cases (in this case pertaining to stress, policing, and dealing with the public while under stress, etc..) critical thinking/response test to deal with the issue. This would have some relation to "IQ" but not highschool tests that Dead Reckoning is going to commit forums suicide over.

Crafting-wholesale a fantasy scenario: A new professional position of Psychologist-Interviewer could take the role of Guadian of the Path of the Gun and answer to a Citizens Commission that would oversee hiring. This would remove the Brothers in Blue test, as well as "well your cousin is in the gang so you can be too!".

The idiot you are defending is shrieking about SATs because thats all he has to derail the idea that there might be a problem with the hiring practices.

Dead Reckoning posted:

You're a lovely poster and the foremost example of someone who pinballs from criticism to shrill criticism without actually examining any of them. I see you've stopped defending your call for more rigorous civil service exams without comment, now that it's been pointed out how dumb it is.

You havent changed anyones mind about anything. Theres just no point cluttering the thread dealing with your constant claims that you are a *deep thinker* the likes of which the rest of us just cant comprehend.

SedanChair posted:

Gather data on police shootings? Have you ever stop to consider what we would actually do if we knew how many people the police shot? Ha ha Ha, I bet you have not!

Furthermore, have you considered that if we want cops to be smart, there will be no black or Mexican cops? Look at you failing to consider the implications of what you advocate for! Did I mention that I'm super worth engaging with?

Yeah.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 06:23

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Vahakyla posted:

Everyone laughs nervously after a traumatizibg experience. It's not a huge red flag like the article kinda assumes.

Absolutely, Ive dealt with it myself many times. The context of this one though is: "Hey, take a vacation, start crafting your story and practicing your lies, its no big deal."

The person reassuring the killer is part of the problem.

quote:

The senior officer again reassured Slager that he would not have to explain the shooting on the record immediately. �The last one we had, they waited a couple of days to interview officially, like, sit down and tell what happened,� he said.

The fact that Slager seems like he may have a history of problems using force suggests that it is part of his character (in some, or a variety of ways), while also suggesting that his seniors do not mind his behavior.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/09/south-carolina-officer-who-shot-black-man-was-subject-prior-excessive-force/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-slager-man-filed-previous-conduct-complaint-article-1.2178669

quote:

Moments later, she saw the police officers drag Givens out of the house and throw him in the dirt. Brown said she kept yelling to the officers they had the wrong man, but they wouldn't listen. Though Givens was offering no resistance, she said she saw Slager use the stun gun on him again.

quote:

In that case, Slager allegedly entered Givens' home and used a Taser against him multiple times, though he, too, was unarmed � and not the person police were trying to question, according to the AP's exclusive report.

After Givens filed a complaint with the North Charleston Police Department, officials quietly �exonerated� Slager without ever contacting Givens, or the woman who made the complaint that brought police to his home and witnessed the encounter, according to the report.

quote:

Givens shook his head Wednesday when asked about his reaction to learning Slager had been charged with murder. Slager is being held in jail without bond.

"It could have been prevented," Givens said of Scott's death. "If they had just listened to me and investigated what happened that night, this man might be alive today."

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 06:50

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Why would you make your special case test the entry gate to training? The training is supposed to teach appropriate thinking and responses. That is literally the singular purpose of training.

You want people that can absorb and use the (theoretical) training to begin with. When you find them you train those individuals.

You dont bring in a sociopath and then assert: "Well after we lecture them for a few days they will be right as rain!"

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 06:53

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Which is why you give them a basic aptitude battery to determine whether they have the academic chops to understand your training. This iis why tests like POST and ASVAB exist. They work reliably to weed out candidates who can't absorb training.

This entire argument is beyond ridiculous. Does anyone in this thread believe that the commonly used entrance exams are even in the top one thousand problems with American law enforcement?

Top 1000 sure, top 10 maybe not.

They do seem to be an issue though. You cant have results this consistently bad across the nation in unrelated departments without it seeming likely that there is a problem with the selection process - in addition to the many other problems.

It is related to the problem where a "bad apple" *cough* is found, and then the rotten barrel rallies to protect it. There is a screening problem before, and a screening problem during.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 07:07

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Oh you'll get no argument from me that the selection process is commonly rear end backwards. Even discounting good-ol-boyism and straight racism. I just can't grasp how making the entrance exam more academically challenging is supposed to address that issue. Do you and the other posters in this thread complaining about the POST being too easy have some data that shows a correlation between academic achievement and police brutality? Does knowledge of calculus correlate with a decreased rate of police abuse? If applicants were quizzed on Homer and Virgil would cops stop murdering people so much?

I havent called for a use of SATs. I dont know if anyone did or if that is just something that was invented as a convenience. I gave one fantasy outline of a direction to go not far above this.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 07:24

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 11:11

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Well this happened.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/14/399609170/chicago-plans-reparations-fund-for-victims-of-police-torture-in-70s-80s
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/chicago-to-make-5-5-million-in-reparations-to-police-torture-victims/

quote:

(14 Apr 2015)

Chicago to make $5.5 million in reparations to police torture victims

Chicago will pay $5.5 million reparations to dozens of victims of police torture in the 1970s and 1980s and their family members, Mayor Rahm Emanuel and aldermen announced on Tuesday.

The city also will provide psychological counseling, job placement aid and other services to victims of torture under disgraced former Chicago police Commander Jon Burge, according to an ordinance that is expected to be passed by the City Council in an upcoming meeting.

Chicago and Cook County have already paid about $100 million in settlements and verdicts for lawsuits related to Burge, who was fired from the police department in 1993 and later convicted of lying about the use of police torture in testimony he gave in civil lawsuits.

Burge and detectives under his command were accused of forcing confessions from black suspects by using electric shocks delivered with a homemade device, suffocation with plastic covers and mock executions.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2015 02:31

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