Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The thing is, a story about someone from a scientific background getting involved in the wizarding world and being 'Holy poo poo this is amazing! I want to study this!' would be fun as hell! This is not that story.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2015 23:22

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 02:01

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Ysengrin posted:

Yeah I was pretty disappointed when I expected that from the story and instead we got... well, what you'll see.

A long time ago, I saw a story about a crashed space pilot and his science buddy having to deal with weird magic using aliens that saved them. They assume at first the magic is just a superstition, until they see someone actually cast an observable spell and the scientist freaks out. Not because he's mad or having a crisis of belief, but because "HOLY poo poo YOU GUYS, if we live I am going to get all the nobel prizes for this discovery and I want measuring tools right now so I can study this incredible phenomena."

More sci-fi meeting fantasy needs that attitude. It's fun as hell.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2015 05:07

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Captain Mog posted:

I think I just don't "get" Fanfiction myself, especially the ones which take the characters are create a whole new story. Why not just, I don't know, write your own? Do you really need to have Harry Potter in your space opera about aliens? Just change the name or something.

Because this way he has a built in audience and won't need to worry about the scary process of actually writing his own work.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2015 15:57

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Peel posted:

IIRC this is more or less the explicit reason, he chose HP because he wanted to reach people and get their interest for his computer pseudoscience.

Yeah, you have to remember, HPMOR is a religious tract. This is the crazy tech cult equivalent of an incredibly long Chick Tract, as will become obvious as we go.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2015 16:46

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I would no poo poo read a story about a magical banker who helps run a wizard bank and goes on banking adventures, though. Exploring what the 'normal' world is like for wizbiz would be lots of fun, because much like school, I imagine their banking is full of hilarious misadventures.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 23:23

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Pvt.Scott posted:

Hostile takeovers and repo jobs, mostly.

But with more dragons and fire, yes.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2015 00:25

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

pwnyXpress posted:

The author is definitely having a wank, but it isn't that awful. Suspend your disbelief a bit and its much more enjoyable.

Ironically, this entire series comes of the author being incapable of doing that himself.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2015 08:51

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

JosephWongKS posted:

Again, seems like the author is speaking of himself in this case. Has he claimed to be a child prodigy and/or a genius in his other writings?

This is basically one of the core beliefs of his blog, yes.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 20:03

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Nessus posted:

Plus, like, the author's entire personal philosophy, such as it is.

Plus, Yud has basically straight up said Harry is Yud in this story, if I recall properly.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 20:26

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Really? Because it's pretty clear he is.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 21:28

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

By 'he is Yud' I mean he's Yud as he wishes he was, as many fanfiction self-inserts are. The great guru surrounded by people who have, of course, never heard ANYTHING about these fantastic new ideas!

It reminds me of the Evangelical fantasy of someone in the US who has not, in fact, heard of Jesus Christ and is super eager to learn about this strange new fellow that you see in all the Chick Tracts and similar Christian works, but then my major interest in Less Wrong is how hilariously similar they are to Evangelical Christianity, just with AI torturebots and robot bodies instead of the resurrection of the Dead and wailing hellfire.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 22:06

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

SSNeoman posted:

Holy poo poo stop it, you little poo poo!
Why does everything have to be a problem for this kid?

He has to show he can always tell what people are thinking because of his cleverness while also being lovely at social interaction because that's the basic, cliche sci-fi/fantasy archetype for Smart Character.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 08:25

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Wasn't he told like, 10 pages back 'Hey, kid, lots of people lost friends and family in horrific ways to wizard nazis just recently so people aren't going to take this poo poo lightly'? And here he's surprised people are still worried about dark lords? Kid's kinda dumb.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 06:57

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Cryophage posted:

Ahahahahahahaha! I'd love to see what a normal editor would do to his insane shitpile, let alone the copyright clusterfuck.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2015 21:34

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I dunno, he seems pretty stupid to me. Like most badly written 'smart' characters, he's succeeding solely because the author's in his corner and he's got the script.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2015 05:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Heck, Dante's Inferno was basically Bible fanfic.

Bible/Renaissance Italy. Don't forget most of the guys in Hell are people Dante either didn't like or who had actually wronged him IRL. And of course, Beatrice is some young girl he saw once for like a minute.

Dante was goony as hell. Fantastic writer, though!

# ¿ Mar 12, 2015 07:54

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Arcsquad12 posted:

To be fair, Ron did sort of fill the same role in the novels as well. However, Rowling had the good sense to give him redeeming qualities while she was at it, even if Ron doesn't develop much over the books. He's a foil and a pretty good one.

Yud makes him into a retard, because everyone next to Potter-Evans-Self-Insert has to look stupid.

Also because he hates Ron and thinks of him as 'irrelevant'.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 05:20

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Tupperwarez posted:

Hahahaha, christ I forgot that he made Ron such a stereotypical 'thinks-in-a-straight-line' dullard.

Unfortunately, that jarred loose a few other bits I half-remembered about this thing, and I think I remember why this is that chapter now.

Don't forget Ron is into SPORTBALL, which is a silly waste of time for stupids.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 08:05

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

"Hey this is how I was taught to manipulate people. Is my manipulative technique working? Am I manipulative and cunning?"

I cannot see that working very well.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 01:45

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

SSNeoman posted:

I just can't get into this story. It's like Harriezer read the entire series, and is now making decisions based on what happens in the novels (and if you say "perfect decision theory" a) gently caress you and b) that would mean that Harry is a robot)

I've said it before, but this is the way cheap, bad sci-fi/fantasy authors write 'smart' characters. They give them the script.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 02:03

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

So this is what happens when an antisocial man tries to write a cunning and charming character.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 06:10

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Nessus posted:

Not be friends with the powerful and wealthy person? Don't be ridiculous!

Reminder that Big Yud wrote about how being wealthy and powerful explicitly means you're a superior person and is an objective measure of greater worth.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 07:16

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Added Space posted:

No, no. Link if you really want it: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/14011/1/in-a-strange-land/prologue-defeat

So, what the hell does this have to do with anything, then? Is this by one of the guy's fans?

Also, I thought that AI MLP fanfic was by one of Elizier's fans, not him, if I recall from the LessWrong Mockthread.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 06:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Pvt.Scott posted:

Using rape as a tittering schoolboy swear was mildly popular in my youth. Usually used as "you got raped," or "I'm going to rape you" in the sense of someone getting trounced in a competition. Though it was sometimes used in the same manner as it was in this story, such as "she's so annoying, I'd love to rape her to teach her a lesson." Kids are shitheads. Kids also usually don't fully understand the full implications of their statements.

I think he loses a bit of the benefit of this by then having the character launch into 'And here's how you get away with pretty much any crime if you're sufficiently connected in magical Britian.'

Also, I think this is intended, also, to show that the Wizarding World is backwards and 'Never Had An Enlightenment' (I believe the edited out bit was in this passage, talking about how this was just like certain 'unenlightened' parts of the mundane world, by which I mean people who are not white and european/american) as well. He's using rape as a lovely character device to show how morally bankrupt and backwards wizards are and why they need Harry to save them, which is just lazy bullshit.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 07:26

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

petrol blue posted:

It's a lazy way of showing Draco's damaged brain, but mostly it's jarring coming from someone who's supposed to have been tutored in politics and manipulation, it's crude in every sense.

Once again, Draco's vaunted tutoring (which Harry is in awe of) led to him directly going 'Hey, I'ma manipulate you now. WATCH THIS!'

Harry, once again, is not a very smart lad.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Mar 18, 2015

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 09:33

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Ahhh Real Zombies! posted:

The first 17 chapters of this are for sale on Amazon. $7 and weirdly no kindle version. Although you'd think he'd add the rest of the story, but maybe he's going to charge seven bucks for chucks of chapters.

http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Methods-Rationality-Chapters/dp/B00E640ZAG

I hope JK's lawyers see it soon.

Who is selling that? Because that's a pretty blatant copyright violation, isn't it?

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 01:46

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Darth Walrus posted:

This:

Haha! I knew I remembered that poo poo.

Also, these stupid psuedointellectual shits have no idea how long 'nobility' persisted (and persists) after their precious Enlightenment. They never do.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Mar 19, 2015

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 03:36

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The Dianetics of fanfic!

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 06:44

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

It's hilarious how rarely you see these 'The Enlightenment is the most important thing ever' types ever acknowledge we're all using arabic numerals and that Algebra comes from the middle east. Harry is too unimaginative to remember that the people of past ages were just as smart as the people of current ones, they just didn't have the same level of information yet (which we only have because past generations sought it out).

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 08:04

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

i81icu812 posted:

The romantic Da Vinci ideal of the lone autodidact polymath genius is merely a Hollywood construct. A popular and enduring one, but a construct and not reflective of reality. This sort of thing is simply not how science advances. Which is too bad for Yud, who plays up his 'self-taught, dropped out of school at 12 genius' aspect as much as possible. And tries to convince people reading the handful of blog posts he writes and calls a Sequence will make them an expert in a field. And that sort of thinking IS damaging.

Yes, but this is literally what Yud dreams of being, too. He thinks he's a Hollywood Scientist.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 06:04

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

It's amusing to see Yud put forth the idea that science is this forbidden power and that Harry (and Yud) have a secret method that makes it infinitely more powerful because they BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF MAN.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 08:17

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Fried Chicken posted:

Isn't there also a chunk edited because originally it had some lines about a Jewish character being inherently smarter than Dean (who is black) because they "were descended from the peoples who have won more novels than any other, and not a murderous tribe" or something?

Really, whenever you see someone talking about how the enlightenment is the source of all that's good and holy forever, you should get some warning flags up because odds are good you're in for a spiel about how 'those people' never had an equivalent.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 07:33

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

anilEhilated posted:

Fixed that for you. Dangers of reductionism and so on.

Well, yes, but I meant for 'You're about to hear some super racist poo poo.'

I had a professor once tell me the Enlightenment was the first time in human history anyone had ever had the idea that maybe rulers should be chosen because they're intelligent, virtuous, and skilled. Seriously. I mean, this poo poo is pretty wide-spread. "All past eras were stupid and we are the best forever." is a very comforting delusion.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 15:28

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

SSNeoman posted:

So basically Philosopher Kings?

Yeah. I was also reading about ancient China and Confucius at the time. It was kind of hilarious to have a guy tell me with a straight face that this was the first time anyone had ever considered this. He also told me Thomas Paine was the first time anyone had ever asked 'Hey, if God is all powerful, why do bad things happen to good people?'

I wrote my Master's Thesis on the Book of Job. That question's been asked as long as there's been monotheism.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 17:11

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Arcsquad12 posted:

Did you mention to him the concept of Roman dictatorship?

I figured past a point it wasn't worth bothering after he claimed Job just 'wasn't the same level of thinking' as loving Thomas Paine. Like, that was his reasoning for why one of the foundational books on 'why does this poo poo happen' (among many other subjects) didn't 'count'. I'll stop derailing, just the whole goddamn Enlightenment worship thing is something I run into often and it pisses me the hell off.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 21, 2015

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 18:23

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

SSNeoman posted:

Yeah this part is Yud's hypocrisy at full force. He sort of understands that science doesn't have instant answers. He just expects science to have instant access to answers. Just do a few experiment and arrive at your conclusion? Why is it so hard, right?

And holy hell am I reminded of this rant whenever he opens his mouth: http://www.zippcast.com/video/2c5c07ff61c33b4a05a

Yud is the science Ideas Guy.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 06:03

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

i81icu812 posted:

Behold. Yudkowsky's autobiography, written in 2000. http://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html

Highly recommended reading, very entertaining.

I note that Yud doesn't like people poking fun at his autobiography and doesn't understand fair use. Opening disclaimer is:

Therefore I present the relevant quote to answer your question. Thank you modern US copyright laws.

You know, I can sort of sympathize. A combination of bullying and difficulty with anxiety issues had roughly the same happen to me when I was that age. The difference is my parents got me a good psychologist (to whom I am eternally grateful) and moved me to a different school (very glad we had the money for that) and I worked it out. Still, having been there, I can at least see how that could happen.

E: Reading further: "I latched onto evolutionary psychology like a starving suction cup." -Sympathy gone.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 23, 2015

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 20:33

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I also didn't, you know, end my formal education at 8th Grade.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 22:00

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

It isn't surprising to me that he's a poor learner. Man seems like the mental equivalent of a picky eater. "If it's not precisely the thing I already told myself I wanted to learn and that I can learn easily, it's not worth learning." is a depressing attitude to have.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 23:54

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 02:01

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Those are, of course, all D&D potions.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 03:09

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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