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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

General Ironicus posted:

What new games are you going to try in March? How would you describe your chosen college football team in Fate? Fill in the blanks: "In like a ________, out like a _______".

I have no idea what games I'm going to try. Whatever looks good, I guess?

Also "in like *something I don't have*, out like *something I don't need or want*." You guys can go to war over your college games, I'll sit back and chill and laugh as a hundred little civil wars start up. :smug:

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Mash it up with Night's Black Agents, use the rules from that, should work pretty well.

I'll love you forever if you do this and I'm able to play it! :kimchi:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
I hate it when the family fights :( . We're goons! We paid money to be here! We have standards! Let's act like it!

Speaking of war-fighting, I've been wondering how to represent enemies in physical conflict in games, and I'm wondering if part of the problem of absurdly long fights is that most such combat heavy games like to stat out the opposition as individuals. Like, that old classic about "40 Kobolds in playtesting of D&D 5e" is an obvious example. 40 individual enemies is obviously way too many for a person to handle without computer assistance. But if you statted it out as "Kobold Platoon Command", "Kobold Section A, B, C," and "Kobold Magic and Effects Squad", that seems a lot easier to visualize and manage. D&D started out as a wargame, why not use those roots to make things simpler? They already do it with horde enemies; standardize it to apply to any enemy, or at least smaller ones.

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Mar 3, 2015

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Evil Mastermind posted:

I still think you should call the fantasy Gunlugger the Swordlugger.

That sounds like an alternate name for someone who uses a FFVII styled giant sword.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
Might be Dark Heresy, too.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
What are these? The top one looks like an anarchist flag of some sort?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
I don't think I've ever played one of those hyperlethal games before. The idea of rolling to make my character makes me a little confused, to be honest.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Captain Foo posted:

just :lol: if you don't use the Dagon method for generating D&D stats

What method is this?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
Aren't all those games absurdly hyperdetailed? Yikes. My fingers are curving into warding gestures right now.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
What exactly is the story of the Tomb of Horrors, anyway? Everything I've heard about it makes it sound like a Pathways into Darkness prequel or something.

(Also would tacnukes and thermobaric bombs count as a "solution" to it?")

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

There's also the fact that the players will initially be given a false dungeon to go to (that kills them) and also there's a false ending where the players fight a very very tough monster and get some treasure and return home thinking that they've won (that's not actually the hyper-deadly REAL ENDING monster with the fabulous riches)

There's no "algorithm" that you can devise that lets you realize you didn't just face the real boss or actually win a fight against that son of a bitch or whatever. It's complete bullshit and anyone who says that they beat it had some kind of help or just threw characters at it until they beat it because it's loving fatal beyond reason and almost impossible to get the true ending without multiple wipes. Like, if you look at the OG Monster Manual and see the Lurker Below and Rot Grub and Gas Spore and say "oh yeah this is my kind of poo poo" you'll probably love it because you're a power-tripping jerk DM doofus who owns all the Grimtooth's Traps books and wears a novelty T-Shirt with Godzilla on it. You prick.

:stare:

I'm...becoming increasingly convinced that a lot of these D&D modules should be handled by the Thief going "I stole tactical nukes from another dimension" and using their Use Magic Device skill to arm them to blow when the party is out of the area.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Ningyou posted:

y'know i remember you saying a thing in persona before but christ 'ropecon' not being some kind of wacky elf shibari convention or w/e keeps throwing me for a loop



so uh which carcosa we talkin' about here

*choke* That's an interesting idea to have this early! So does ropecon stand for an acronym, or is it the name of the founder of the convention, or...?

Also Carcosa is loving EEEEWW. Somebody run a game in the Strangereal world instead thanks in advance.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
Are you okay, Plutonis? You don't seem too interested in being lovable today. Did something happen in the family or did you just have a rough day?

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

MartianAgitator posted:

Well, I'm trying to get where the hater-haters are coming from. Maybe racial or homophobic issues are something you need to deal with everyday. But I doubt it. It really looks like an internet echo chamber where everyone is practicing their despise-writing like amateur film critics. Why is it important to express such vitriol all the time?

Well...add transphobic and misogynistic to that and you'd actually be right. There's the thing. I interact with a lot of people here on IRC, and I'd say about a quarter, probably less fit the stereotypical "white male bearded bachelor" archetype that we somehow think of when we think "RPG players". The rest are women, or gay, or lesbian, or trans, or something else I'm missing, and yes, they do have to deal with those issues on a regular basis.

MartianAgitator posted:

I'll give you some examples of what I mean. Before 5th Edition got rolling, a lot of people on this forum were saying "Don't worry, Mearls worked on 4th Ed, he gets it!" Now it's hate, hate, hate. I'm an old-school Monte Cook fan because I was there for his greatest hits: Dead Gods, The Great Modron March, the Dark Matter campaign setting, the list really does go on. Numenera, of course, is pretty drat ugly as a system. And that was the last thing Monte Cook did, so it's just hate, hate, hate. People cite his Ivory Tower game design article thinking it's a defense of that style. Who would title an article "Ivory Tower" anything if they were defending it?!

Well, I think the consensus is that D&D5e in and of itself is a functional, if slightly boring and atavistic, system. The primary objection I have personally, and that you'll occasionally see repeated here, is that two of its more fervent advocates are so absurdly dedicated to it that they resort to using homophobic/transphobic slurs, calls for ostracism and exclusion, active harassment and calls for same from their fanbase, and other such nastiness against people who they disagree with or have put out systems that want to do something besides dungeon raiding, and the D&D5e executives' lukewarm response to their antics seem like tacit approval of same.

MartianAgitator posted:

...Your guys' outrage is the juice for that fan. That's just where the Trad Games hive mind is right now. Okay. I'm pointing out that you're hive-minding and I don't see why. Does anyone have a story where they were playing Cards and it turned out the guy who laughed hardest at the racist stereotypes in the game turned out to be racist? I think someone who actually thought Mexicans were incredibly lazy wouldn't laugh at the bland way Cards presents that. They'd just agree.

Actually, yes, I do have a story similar to that. Someone came into an IRC channel and offered a chance to play CAH online. Let's just say that one person got uncomfortable with the game early on and excused himself, and the game ended up falling apart when a second player decided to burn one of the more offensive cards to "get it out of their hand", and the result ended up really affecting a third player in a bad way. The resulting conversations on IRC were...heated. I ended up having to run some PMs back and forth between a few players to try to smooth things over. It made everybody uncomfortable and sad and feel awful about themselves and their friends, and that sucks.

MartianAgitator posted:

I feel like you guys just all need to get drunk and talk about your hopes and fears about racism and end up with some Breakfast Club-style understanding-ful ending. Because a big part of black comedy is getting people like you to recognize how uncomfortable you are and figure out why you spend so much effort patting each others' backs about how noble you are for having such perfect disdain for people who are different from you.

Wellllll...there's where we must disagree. Most of us are already "different" and already have to deal with disdain from others who are "different than us". It's that perfect disdain that caused Mikan to leave SA entirely, for example. When we pay our $10 and post and laugh on a forum that claims to hold itself to a higher standard than the rest of the internet, we expect to be able to do so in an environment free of that pre-existing disdain. Sometimes we fail (see the case of Mikan), but goddammit, it's worth a try. Because why should we pay $10 to make other people uncomfortable and sad when the rest of the world would do that for free?

...has this come up before? I think it's come up before.

Oh, yeah, happy birthday Fuego Fish :toot:

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

bunnielab posted:

So at what point has a certain group been enough brought into the fold that you can make fun of them? Can we make "drunk irish" jokes now? "mobbed up" italians? "lazy mexicans" is clearly off the table, but I feel the polish are an edge case, they are white, mostly christian, but they are undergoing pretty real discrimination in the UK right now and have historically been a punching bag. Are the spanish white enough to mock? Not that I know enough about them to really think of anything offensive.

See, this is the kind of thing I was talking about. We all paid very good money to be here. And we shouldn't have to put up with stupid jokes or be told "lol lighten up" because of who we are or what we were born with. (What we think of certain things is a slightly different matter. For example, I can say with much confidence that if this is really what you think and not some strange FYAD affectation, that I am happy that I don't play games with you, bunnielab. :flame:)

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Serf posted:

I would totally play in a game where we just founded a bank in a world where gold comes from monster-killing. Imagine the hijinks as you fight other banks and develop more and more sophisticated ways of killing monsters to generate loot to buy out your competitors. Game ends when you own/destroy all the other banks or have hunted all the monsters to extinction.

Monster Hunter x Shadowrun? Sounds...interesting.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Comrade Gorbash posted:

Late to the party on this but it's exactly the kind of thing I'm into.

I'm not sure that says anything good about me, but there you go.

To be honest it sounds like my speed too. I dunno if I want to play the assassination happy Japanese government, but I do like historical stuff, and I can maybe play as "the Haig of the RN" Churchill or perhaps...Italy? So, yes, I hope you get enough players!

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah. Even so, I was recently working on a semi-historical pirate game and it's still so easy to get buried on the massive amount of information we have on the era. History is a rabbit hole and it's easy to get sucked down it, but much harder to make it presentable to all your friends.

I think there's also the problem that comes up a lot in this thread and others when other designers put their feet in their mouth. If you go too little with your historical/technical background, why did you even bother in the first place? But if you go in too deep, at what point do you reach "now you're just being culturally appropriating and spectacularly insensitive"? And that goes super double for events that happened in recent memory. I mean, wargames and boardgames tend to get a pass because they often start with a big base of research, and go so far as to stick bibliographies and recommended reading lists in the back for further review by interested players. (See, e.g. Navajo Wars, which seems like the complete opposite of the recent Monte Cook debacle thing.) I don't know if RPGs do that often, outside of, say, GURPS sourcebooks.

It's not fair. All of my game ideas happen in 20th and 21st century analogues, so I get a few paragraphs in to writing them before my brain goes "you idiot! How would someone from the DRC/Belgium/Algeria/France/Japan/Russia/the Philippines/Sweden/Finland/the UAE/Israel feel about you hijacking their history and cutting/pasting like you're making a grade school collage?!" and I end up putting the whole thing down for a month.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

"Beyond the pale" references the Eastern section of Ireland that was originally controlled by the English and the extent area of their colonization. It's not about color and more about being English or culturally acceptable in England's first colony, Ireland.

It is an old white people reference though, especially in the US.

Doesn't it refer more generically to any sort of border or marking thereof? I don't think pale is meant as an adjective here.

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Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Ningyou posted:

The archaic English term pale is derived from the Latin word white ppl,

But Latin for "white people" is "populus alba"? Which I guess explains where "albumen" comes from...

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