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Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Sh4 posted:

How's the 996 GT2 on maintenance and upgrades-wise ? My stepfather is really pushy about me buying his so he can buy an RX-8 but I'm not sure I would be able to keep it running, his is a 2004 model clubsport. Drove it a few times and it's brutal, not sure how the old guy managed to survive but that can also means he babied it and that can be bad for the engine ?

That's an odd jump. The 996 GT2 can be a bit of a handful as its only assistance is ABS so maybe that's why he wants something more sedate?

Any Porsche, I don't care what you're getting, should have a PPI run on it with a complete DME report to show overrevs prior to purchase. The 3.6L Mezger turbo engines are pretty solid overall. Way, way overbuilt. The bottom end on it can take insane power and stock internals is good for quite a bit more power. They're one of the few turbo cars from that era (heck, even today) that can stand up to track abuse without overheating. If he's giving you a good price on it, I'd jump. 996 GT2 values have climbed up in the last year or so. They were severely undervalued at 75k and most are trading hands in the 80k range now.

As far as maintenance... yeah it's going to cost a bit. The engines and gearboxes are reliable but if a $25k engine rebuild would be financially devastating I'd pass. Brakes and tires are fairly standard costs. I guess it's all about what seems normal to you. I don't know if all GT2s came with carbon ceramics but if you track the car, take them off immediately to save for future sale. They don't last long on the track and are insanely expensive to replace. Most track guys switch to steel brakes and don't miss out much on performance or weight. Even ceramics on Porsches today are just awful on the track unless you have an unlimited budget. They always say "the new ceramics are better than the last generation" and a year later someone that bought into the bullshit is complaining about a $16k brake job after a year of tracking.

Anyway, good luck with the decision. For my money it'd be hard to turn down a 997 GT3 but I've idolized that car for far too long to be objective about it.

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Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
My Porsche addiction began with the 987.2 Boxster Spyder.



I finished a degree in 2012 and decided to treat myself to a new car. I wasn't convinced that standard 911s were worth consideration and for some reason didn't think I was ready for a 997 GT3. In hindsight that was an incredibly dumb decision as they were trading hands for $70k but I wasn't sure I could swing payments. I still had the Elise at the time but I almost never returned it back to street configuration after track days and I was driving it less and less. In my mind the Spyder was Porsche's take on the Elise and it was crazy fun. Annoyingly it was just as fast on the track as my heavily modified Elise. I sold it when I moved to Colorado and while it was the sensible decision I miss having a really special Porsche. I can't stand the 2014 STI that replaced it but I need to keep it for another soul-crushing year.

I love, love, love the new Cayman GT4. Porsche continues to find new and interesting ways to cripple the Cayman and on this one it's ridiculously long gearing but that can be changed. Everything else about the car is brilliant. I was ready to put down a deposit but my wife doesn't think that's the right move prior to buying a house so that one will wait. I'm looking forward to seeing how depreciation hits the GT4 but my guess is not much in the first 2-3 years.

I'm not completely sold on the new Spyder. The 3.8L would be epic in it but the front end from the GT4 is too aggressive for an otherwise smooth design. The top is definitely a compromise for the people that thought the tent on the 987.2 Spyder was too much. The humps in the back don't seem to go well with the car in this generation and yet in some pictures it looks nearly identical to the old one.

My plan in 2016 is to return to a Porsche/Lotus garage, I'm just not sure how exactly it will look. I'd like an Exige this time around but they're a good $10-15k more than an early Elise and they're not that much better. It would eat into the budget and I would almost rather put that extra cash toward the Porsche daily. This time around I think I need to try a 911. With the budget I'm looking at (~$40k) I think the best I can do is a 997.2 C2. The 996 Turbo is under consideration but I'm not sure I can get over that interior. Is a 996TT with a tune (~480-500bhp) worth living with the outdated interior and fried egg headlights? Or should I stick with a simple and reliable 997.2 and focus on track mods with the Lotus?

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

McMadCow posted:

Why is this? Do you mean in the case of money shifts? I've owned my Boxster for a little less than two weeks but I've already run it up to the limiter. Is it somehow a bad thing to do that or are we talking some sort of action that causes the engine to rev beyond the computer limit?

I ask because I was under the impression that hard revving was one of the ways to stave off IMS issues.

If the IMS is going to go, it doesn't matter how much you redline it. There's a lot of misinformation about that issue out there but the simple fact is that it involves a defective part and if it's going to fail it doesn't matter how you drive it. And that's a big "if." There are plenty of engines out there that have not exploded.

The DME report shows you the number of overrevs in five ranges and the engine hour in which the last one occurred. Ranges 1-3 are actually under the redline and just give you an idea of how hard the car was driven. Range 4 overrevs are slightly over redline and in most cases wouldn't scare me off of a car as long as you know the owner was good with the maintenance. Range 5 are legitimate problems in my opinion and would typically scare me off of a purchase. For reference, I tracked my Spyder prior to knowing or giving a crap about future DME reports and I showed a small number in ranges 1-2, a couple in 3, and nothing in 4 and 5. I don't baby cars on the track so you'd basically have to miss a shift to hit 4 or 5. I'm not sure ranges 4-5 are possible on PDK since the ECU won't let you downshift too early.

I recommend a DME/PPI on any Porsche because despite the price, engine rebuilds or swaps are crazy expensive. A $10k Boxster will still cost about $8-12k to replace the engine if something happens. A PPI is either $150 or $300 and well worth it in my opinion. If it's a new car and you know the owner is not a track person you can probably get away with it but it's still a gamble. Maybe with a PDK car it's not important?

Pr0kjayhawk fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 3, 2015

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
Nice! Base or S? Manual? Is it your daily or do you have other plans?

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Arione posted:

question now is do I go fabspeed,n/a intake and exhaust or TPC racing turbo?

Tread lightly with the TPC turbo kit. If you live near their shop and have them do the install I've heard several people having a lot of success that way. Otherwise, hell no. Their parts often don't fit, the tune can have tons of issues. If they're doing the work it's usually fine and I'm sure there's a lot of behind the scenes bullshit we don't hear about.

I don't know why the aftermarket hasn't picked up any N/A Porsche platforms outside of TPC but there has to be a reason. I think Porsche does such a good job of segmenting cars according to performance and price point that any money you'd spend on upgrades would be better spent getting the next model up.

On a separate note it's absolutely insane what people will spend to do an engine swap to net 80-100hp. A lot of DFI Cayman guys are swapping in 3.8 X51 engines for $25-30k. Nevermind the 4.1L Sharkwerks upgrade for the 997.2 GT3 making ~530hp. I read $60k for that one but who knows. Unless you're starting with a 996TT there really is no such thing as a free lunch with Porsches.

BlackMK4 posted:

Well, avoid EvoMS. My fathers 997TT has their EVT700 kit and it was nothing but a mess.

I wouldn't write off EvoMS. They're well respected in the community from what I can tell. Did they do the EVT700 install on your dad's 997TT or did another shop do it?

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
Fair enough, no excuses there. What kind of problems did the car have?

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

BlackMK4 posted:

I have a durametric enthusiast cable. Is there a way to code with this cable? It's a 997.1TT.

You mean like a Cobb Accessport? No. It can do things like clear the service reminders and an airbag warning if you install a racing seat but it cannot load new fuel/timing maps.

When did you get the 997.1 TT? How do you like it? I'm going back and forth between a 997.1 TT (fast) and 997.2 C2S (better tech/features and simpler engine) at the moment.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

Tell me about 996 Turbos. They're still reasonably priced enough for me to afford.

They are inherently reasonably reliable. The motor is running relatively low boost and understressed compared to what it is capable of. That said, the real world reliability of them is a complete crapshoot as it depends entirely on the maintenance of the previous owners. They have been cheap enough for a while that they may be in the hands of people not following the maintenance schedule (to include time-based service intervals).

Someone just sold a black 996TT with over 500,000 miles on it and the list of things that had to be replaced (outside of consumables) was quite low. The one I drove had a springy clutch and the shifter was not great. Power was "okay" but it probably needs a tune to wake it up. Find one with extensive maintenance records and have a blast.

Oh and that engine is about $30k to rebuild so don't do anything dumb. Also watch out for the coolant lines, they like to give up. This affected all GT1 Mezger-based cars (996 GT3/Turbo, 997.1 GT3/Turbo, 997.2 GT3) and costs about $3k to fix.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

What is is about Porsche engines that makes them so expensive to rebuild? Are the parts a lot more expensive or is the labor generally a huge chunk of that? I know even the NA ones are in the $20k range when poo poo goes bad.

Gonna talk to my credit union at work today to see what they can do for me so that if I do find something I like I can jump. I also need to try and find a couple local to drive before I decide that I really want one. I don't think the prices on them are really gonna go much lower than they are now, and I don't think they'll go completely nuts like air cooled prices, but who the hell knows.

It's a direct descendant of the GT1 racing engine. Literally ripped from their endurance racing production. In GT1 trim in the 90s it was making 592hp with twin turbos so the 415hp in 996TT trim is not even close to stressing the engine. It's expensive to rebuild because it's based off of an actual race engine. Different methodologies there but they're very reliable and can be rebuilt an unlimited number of times.

Also, I found a complete, working 996TT engine on rennlist today for $7500 (http://rennlist.com/forums/parts-marketplace/891234-996-turbo-engine-complete-without-turbos.html) so apparently I was full of poo poo. Get a Cobb tune, make sure to avoid photos of the headlights and you're golden.

Oh and if you don't like the clutch, shifter, or any number of things they can be replaced. It has a strong aftermarket. And I really don't mind the headlights these days, I wish I could get over the interior though. Yikes. At least most (if not all?) 996TTs came with the full leather interior; in black it looks a lot better.

I feel like I just talked myself into a 996TT.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

MortLansky posted:

Jesus christ can we finally slow down the whole LS swap bandwagon? Every mechanical vulnerability ever, regardless of make, can be solved by shoving in a pushrod V8 if you went by the way people talk on non-manufacturer specific car forums. The amount of times the suggestion comes up vs. the actual number of people driving around on real-world functioning swaps (in 911s, anyway) must be in massive disparity. Either buy a Porsche and accept what it costs or go get a Corvette or something if you're so concerned about getting eaten by maintenance. Don't drive around in some stupid fake German hillbilly cruise missile with a frankenstein wiring harness that makes engineers cry.

Maybe I'm being hyper sensitive but if you're gonna do an LS swap at least use a 928 or something that kind of actually makes sense instead of hacking up a perfectly good 911.

Agreed. The narrow body 996 looks like a lump of poo poo anyway, there's no saving it.

The real ticket is buying a 987.1 Cayman or Boxster with a blown engine and ship it to BGB Motorsports in FL for a DFI swap. Those wizards figured out how to adapt the old EFI wiring harness and ECU to the newer (and much more reliable and powerful) DFI engine/ECU. Most people go crazy with the 997.2 GTS engine (3.8 X51) and can pretty easily hit 400whp. With the standard 3.4 you can hit 320-340whp without much trouble. Best of both worlds really.

I think I just talked myself into a new track car.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Larrymer posted:

And so PADL begins...

I've needed a new avatar for a while now...

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Residency Evil posted:

I know that the next 911 Carrera and Carrera S are going to be turbos, but have there been any rumors how long Porsche is going to hold out making at least some of their cars NA? Any word on MY2017, 2018?

:ohdear:

The GT3 and GT4 are safe for now. Looking at other cars in the range, the GTS models stayed N/A a little bit longer and a lot of people preferred them over the Turbo trim because you could actually hear the engine. It's possible the 991.2 GTS would stay N/A. Porsche is very good about serving every little micro-niche and that would keep the doomers from saying "Hold on to your N/A 911s!!"

I don't have a lot of faith that Porsche will make their entire turbo range exciting. It's probably going to suck for a couple generations. It sounds like the Boxster/Cayman will go 4 cylinder and that's really, really disappointing.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

The guy is apparently a doctor(a shock, I know) that has 6 or 7 Porsche's. I'm not sure if this shop works on all of them, but they said he takes real good care of them, so there's that. I'd still get a PPI done, wonder if that shop would be a good choice due to their relationship with the guy?

Yeah get it done somewhere else.

The now owner of my old Spyder paid for a PPI at the dealership in Denver. I was a little worried about any overrevs that might show up in the DME and the service technician said, "We're not in the business of scaring anyone away from your car." Made me feel good as a seller but a buyer... eh.

I think ranges 1-4 aren't actually overrevs, just how close you get to the redline. 5 and 6 are actual overrevs so pay attention to the count and the last time it was recorded (meaning, if you see a bunch of hits in the 5 range at engine hour 2500 but the engine has 5000 hours overall you're probably fine).

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

Flew an hour to meet a guy from craigslist. Did not get turned into a lampshade. Car was in really good shape outside of a couple dings. Will also need new tires. Probably gonna get a ppi done on it.

That's strong money for a 996TT but the miles are ridiculously low so I'm betting it's worth the premium. Good luck with the PPI.

If I was staying up in Denver much longer I would definitely be in the market for a 996TT or 997TT. Something odd happened in the last two years: I like the updated 996 headlights and the 997TT almost looks too gaudy with the vents and holes and weird foglights. The 996 interior will always be a challenge for me to appreciate though.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

I'm hoping he just decided to not sell it. He didn't really seem like he wanted to and was in no rush to do so. I don't know why he wouldn't just tell me that he decided not to sell it though. I sure as poo poo didn't see it on ebay any time I've done searches on there.

e: found the ebay listing. Ended 3 days ago. Why the hell wouldn't you mention that it was on ebay? It was pretty loving obvious that I was interested in the car.

Sounds like he was able to sell the car without doing a PPI. Or that he knew it wouldn't pass after you asked for it. Bullet dodged indeed.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
What is it about Rennlist that makes members think their car is worth $10k more than market?

That wood trim looks really, really bad. It could be replaced with other trim bits but nothing can fix the peanut butter tan of the 996 era.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
For $13k it's not going to have the IMS bearing changed. If that car is your jam then rock it until the wheels fall off. Just know the engine running is worth more than the whole car and enjoy it.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

Did early 997s still have ims issues? Specifically the S versions. Considering expanding my search with some C2S action, but probably not if that's an issue.

997.1 yes.
997.1 no.

997.1 was 2005-2008 and 06-08 had a different IMS bearing design that did not fail as often.*

* 2005 IMS bearing - good on track, bad on street
2006-2008 IMS bearing - good on street, bad on track

Find a 997.1 that had the bearing addressed and drive happy. Or find a shop that does the IMS fix from Flat6 Innovations (http://flat6innovations.com/), it's not that expensive.

Food for thought: The 997.2 base Carrera makes 10hp less but has the newer DFI engine and updated electronics/lights/interior. If I was looking at the 997.1 C2S I'd go with the 997.2 C2 any day. Lots of threads on Rennlist about that debate.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

fknlo posted:

I've been trying to do some reading on the various forums. I asked about the IMS issues because there really is a whole lot of conflicting information as far as 997's go. One of the independent shops I've been to here even told me they'd never seen a 997 have an IMS failure so they didn't believe it was an issue. I'll have to take a look at the base 997.2 as I hadn't really considered them. I'll try and find some local cars and go for test drives to see what I think. They're still all quite a bit of money for what you're getting, but I still want a 911, so whatever. I'm still looking at 996TT's too.

I did a little more research:

The M96 was the 3.6L in production from 1998 to 2008.
The M97 was the 3.8L in production from 2005 to 2008.

Both the M96 and M97 had the old and new IMS bearing design. The switchover happened sometime between the MY05 and MY06 cars. What I mentioned in the last post about the old and new bearings is true. Old wears out on the street (meaning it is ideal for high RPMs) and the new bearing design wears out on the track (good at lower RPMs on the street).

Where it gets fun is the older IMS bearing design is relatively easy to replace. It can be done during a clutch change. The new IMS bearing design requires an engine teardown. Jake Raby at Flat6 Innovations said they had not seen a failure on the newer IMS bearing. So just don't track the 2006-2008 cars and you're, most likely, going to be fine. That creates a situation where it might be best to pick up an early 2005 C2S and get the IMS fix done yourself.

Or just get a 997.2 C2 and call it a day. Back when I was doing the research there wasn't a huge difference in what the S got that the base did not. C2S comes with more standard equipment but the functional difference I found was that the brake discs are a few mm thinner but same diameter, same calipers, etc etc. You'd want the PASM so you get the -10mm ride height that doesn't look like a 4x4 or just save the money and get Techart lowering springs to clean up the look. And a Sharkwerks center muffler kit with tips to get rid of those awful oval tips on base cars.

Essentially, you won't miss the 10hp from the 997.1 C2S to the 997.2 C2. Bonus option for ventilated seats, updated electronics, and super fancy headlights that turn with the steering wheel. My Spyder had the dynamic headlights, it's amazingly helpful at night.

Links:

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/730388-all-this-talk-about-m96-vs-m97-what-s-the-straight-dope.html

See page 9 and 10:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/93289189/Porsche_Engine_Codes_1952-2012.pdf

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

kimbo305 posted:

Ah, so you were the one with the Spyder. I was asking around a few months ago when I was shopping to try to get your impressions, mostly over whether the Spyder was worth it over later 987s. The top didn't bother me, but I didn't know if the rest of the improvements added up to a significantly different experience than the normal cars, or now to 981s.

In a word, yes. It didn't have the power it needed but I'm surprised Porsche allowed it to be so good. It was definitely a car that was greater than the sum of its parts. If you got it in the ideal spec you were in the low 2800lb range. It came with the GT2 buckets, aluminum panels, the lightest 19" wheels Porsche made at the time, and bespoke bodywork. I read that the suspension package used on the Spyder was the first iteration of what became the X73 suspension package (lower, non-adjustable, lighter) on the 981. That was really the piece that set the Spyder apart, the suspension was so well tuned.

I think I posted about it before but there was a track day at Arizona Motorsport Park that I did in the Spyder. I was originally asked to leave the track because the Lotus was too loud. I asked if I could come back with my stock exhaust Boxster and they said yes. Long story short I put down exactly the same lap time in the Spyder as I did in the Lotus at that track the year before (with no sound restrictions so full power/RPMS). The difference was it was almost effortless. I got out of that car with a huge smile on my face. When I'd finish a session in the Lotus I felt like I just spent 20 minutes wrestling it to do what I want. One could argue that it might be more fun to wrestle a car on the track where you earn every single tenth you shave but in that moment I was on cloud 9.

To put it another way:

Lotus: 275whp/175wtq/1960lbs
Spyder: ~285whp/250wtq/2850lbs

Same time. Limitation of the driver? Possible. Also the Lotus was on AO48s and the Spyder on worn out street tires. But I'd put a lot of that down to the suspension.

I'd get another Spyder before I'd get a 981 that wasn't a GT4. It was a very special car.

There was a Rennlist guy by the name of Orthojoe that heavily tracked his Spyder and documented the crap out of it. Don't visit this page if you're on the fence about buying one: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheEvoXMR?&ab_channel=TrackDayFun

fknlo posted:

Thanks! I'll definitely keep all that in mind. Knowing all that I guess I really wouldn't have much of an issue getting a base 997.2 if it had most of the options I wanted.

I'm also going to keep an eye out for 997.1 esses with the X51 package. They don't seem to be very common though. There was a bit of a fuss on Rennlist recently as a dealer got a 2007 C2S that the PO had an X51 engine put in at his own cost after the stock blew and nothing else was available. They put it up for $40k and it sold really quick. Basically a brand new engine that cost more than the car sold for to put in... :psyduck:

So doing a bit of searching I've found a 2005 C2S X51 with a touch under $40k miles listed at $43k. I'd seriously consider that if I could talk them down a bit on price.

e: running that car through the VIN decoder doesn't show that car as being an X51...

If you can get an X51 in the low 40s I'd say that's a pretty solid buy. Remember it's 300-400lbs lighter than a 996 turbo and is only down ~35hp. Of course that's painfully ignoring the fact that a Cobb tune can get a 996 TT within spitting distance of 500hp without much work.

What sites do you use to search for cars? I'm still in the casual shopping phase but 2016 is approaching quickly and I need to make up my mind. On any given week I'm floating between 997.1 TT, 991 C2S, and 997.1 GT3. All I'm using to search at the moment is Autotrader with glances at Rennlist and 6SpeedOnline every so often.

I feel like this may be my last opportunity in the next 10 years to pick up something awesome. I've wanted a GT3 for so long but it's very easy for the pragmatic side of me to talk myself out of it. Six years ago I'd just say gently caress it and buy a Lotus as my daily and figure out the storage situation after I bought groceries.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Isn't that what bit einTier in the rear end?

Exactly. It's a shame too because the 987.1 CS is getting ridiculously cheap and can be made into an excellent track car with a smattering of GT3 suspension bits.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Residency Evil posted:

http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-marketplace/930622-boxster-spyder-fs.html

I'm finding it tough to price this. Perfect options, but the mileage is quite high. What would be a decent price on this?

edit: Although it seems silly to get a 5 year old, 70k car for 50k when a new M2 is the same price.

I owned one of these and that price is high. Rennlist people are insane 90% of the time.

That car was low 60s new. LWBs were free and dumb people optioned the sofas back in. When I bought mine a used set was $5k so I figured I'd run the sofas for a while and pick up used LWB seats later. Now they trade hands for 8-9k.

Even though that engine is drat near bulletproof it's still a poo poo load of miles for a Spyder. Most people treat them like a GT3/RS where they're driven hard but only occasionally. On Rennlist people think the LWBs make the car worth a lot more. It's definitely a desirable feature but he should be asking 5k less. It's going to sit for a while.

Oh and you're not getting an M2 anytime in the next 18 months unless you pay someone handsomely for their spot.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
Boxsters are super practical. They have a trunk and a frunk. Also with a convertible you can fit tall things in the passenger seat.

At one point I had a Boxster Spyder and a Lotus Elise as my only car. You'll be fine.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
A few years ago most shops in that business wouldn't go over 4.1L on the Mezger. I'd be interested to see the bore and stroke numbers on that build. 4.3L on an engine that was never raced over 4L. Seems like it shouldn't last long at that size but I'm sure the shop did plenty of testing.

In other news I'm finally ready to dump the STI. In the last day I drove an E90 M3 and two 997.2s (C2S and C4S). The power delivery was more fun in the M3 but the Porsche felt better in almost every other way. It's going to be fun putting a rear facing baby seat in a 911.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
Hahaha that little limp dick spoiler coming up at the end of the dyno pull was the best.

Also, god drat make a kit for this. I want to troll some Porsche nerds so bad. Thanks to this video I was looking at Coyote crate engines today and holy poo poo they're cheap for what you get. Thanks to IMS issues the 987.1/997.1 models are almost worthless once the engine pops. No one wants to pay $20K for a rebuilt M96/M97. For the 987.1 Cayman you get the lovely dick punch that is 295hp for your $20K. I might be looking for Caymans with a blown engine tonight.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:

Jymmybob posted:

lathespin.gif

edit: 1999 I was looking at sold for 19.5k so welp to the buyer and the search continues..

If you can afford a Turbo just get that. They last a long time. http://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo-forum/882512-557-764-miles.html

You dodged a bullet.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
I wish it was as easy on the 997 to do a RWD conversion on the 4s. Love the wide body look but not crazy about the extra weight and impact on steering feel.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Take a look at what replacement 3.2/3.4L engines cost. Add that to the cost of the car and it's more than what a 987.2 CS would cost. Until the price of the replacement engines come down in line with the value of the cars the 987.1/997.1 are not strong buys.

Also, the DFI 9A1 in the 9x7.2s are basically indestructible. Save up until you can afford one of those, then mileage just becomes a number.

Also, I'm not sure of the engine family on the EFI 2.9L in the base 987.2. Not sure if it's the 9A1 with EFI or an extension of the M96/M97 in the 9x7.1. Just don't get a base Cayman.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Residency Evil posted:

gently caress man, that sounds awful. I made a similar trip on 80 when I bought my 981 a few years back and was stressed out the entire way. Fwiw, our PA roads seem even shittier than normal this year.

There's a part of me still thinking about selling my 981 CS and getting a 987 Spyder. I can't get that car out of my mind. Someone tell me going 981-987 is a mistake.

I’m a little late to this but I would highly recommend the switch. The 987 Spyder was an incredibly special car. I had one for two years as my daily in Phoenix, I loved it. My other car at the time was an Elise so the Spyder felt very practical. I was at the Stuttgart factory in 2012 when it was still new. They had one in the museum and in the dealership right next to a 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0. It was such an incredible experience to see my car there at the main factory next to the 4.0.

I had it on the track once and it was sublime. Ended every session with a big smile. For comparison, the track-prepped Elise felt like I had been wrestling a bear for 20 minutes so the Spyder was an epiphany. Wonderful handling and great communication at the limit. If you get a manual, which you should, add the third radiator that came with PDK models.

2850lbs (everyone gets A/C) and 320hp, this car could scoot. Hydraulic steering would be a definite upgrade over Porsche’s gen 1 electric racks. And the top actually has two pieces, one smaller piece that actually seals the cabin a bit. I only used it on road trips and ran without most of the time. There was a decent gap between the top and window but it really wasn’t that bad. I could get the main top on and off within a minute or so.

Just make sure to get the buckets.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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911 prices across the board are absolutely insane. I was considering a 997.2 C2S and they’ve gone up at least $15-20K in the last few years.

I really want a 991.2 Carrera T and they have jumped at least $20K in the last 9 months. gently caress.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Base 991.2 C2 with a tune is probably the best value right now. 997.2 turbo if you don’t care about steering feel and want a widebody.

The newer the car the bigger it will be inside.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Residency Evil posted:

I religiously listen to every episode of Spike's Car Radio/The Smoking Tire and I can't figure out if I hate Spike/Matt or not.

Same. Farah rarely hides his contempt for his own fanbase.

https://twitter.com/TheSmokingTire/status/1373719563288780800?s=20&t=E3hjuhKGkRl0CQSESLRK7Q

I really do trust his opinion on cars, more than I probably should, but it’s very easy to see why TST has struggled to gain any traction on YouTube and other non-podcast venues. He spent YEARS stuck at 800-900K subscribers while others eclipsed him in little to no time.

He’s the son of a rich CEO so of course he could grind it out for a decade making not very much. Obviously he has talent but… ugh.

I wish Zack was allowed to talk more and not just running their video production that no one watches. I’d rather hear from him since he doesn’t have gently caress you money and seems more relatable.

Spike… I go back and forth on. Zuckerman is a treasure. But sometimes I don’t care about their rich car collector takes. At least he’s been in comedy for a long time and knows how to build bits or segments into the shows. I’m glad they brought Lieberman on but they’ve been overly rude to him lately, it’s weird to listen to sometimes.

In short, I need IRL car nerd friends so I don’t have to listen to podcasts to get my fix.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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bird with big dick posted:

I assume the dealer will actually negotiate on that price but I'm sure Carmax won't for the 2017 S thats $500 over original MSRP (117.5k).

jfc I'm just going to set a reminder on my phone for 12 months from now that says "resume checking 911 prices"

I was ready to sell both of my cars late last year to daily a 911 with two car seats in the back. It would have been incredibly dumb and inconvenient. But I absolutely could not stomach the asking prices on a 991.1 C2S. It was so depressing to watch prices climb $20-30K higher than they were a year or so prior. A 991.1 C2 (not an S!) near me was in the high 60s/low 70s. wtf

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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I wonder how Porsche would feel about someone asking for PTS in Mazda’s soul red, objectively the best color.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Congrats. What’s next?

I made the mistake of buying a super low mile Exige a few years ago. As they went up in value I lost the desire to mod them (which is what I originally wanted) and didn’t want to add miles. A beat 50k mile Exige with track mods would have been perfect.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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AWWNAW posted:

Went shopping for a manual 997 and ended up with this 2017 4S instead.


Congrats. Count me impressed that you overshot your budget by 2x.

Manual or PDK?

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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NASA used to run a Spec 944 class and they’d occasionally run with DE3 or DE4 groups. We loving HATED them. They were slow as poo poo, body roll like they were going to fall over mid corner, and the drivers rarely got out of the way. Ugh.

That is my 944 story.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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That’s a drat good price these days.

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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I don’t get the love for the 944. Parts are expensive, they’re slow as poo poo, and they look exactly like four other 80s RWD coupes.

Agreed on the BRZ/86 suggestion. Cammisa likened it to a modern 944. https://youtu.be/QaR843im04A

Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

:pervert:Zoom Zoom, motherfuckers:pervert:
I learned to dislike them when the Spec 944 crew in Phoenix was playing rolling chicane in HPDE4. I was in an Elise with stock power levels.

It’s cool you like it. Any enthusiasm for cars is good these days. Personally, the driving experience has to offer something unique to put up with the cost, maintenance, etc. Again, just me, I don’t think the FR 4 cyl 944 does anything that you can’t get elsewhere for less.

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Pr0kjayhawk
Nov 30, 2002

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Motronic posted:

Look, I get it.

But you say this last part while talking about an Elise.......your own post isn't even a coherent narrative on the point you appear to think you're making.

It's okay not to like these cars. Why are you posting about it in this thread?

I was offering perspective on a car that CancerCakes was looking to buy. It’s less than 10 posts up.

Maybe my point was missed. In my dumb opinion, an Elise/Exige offers a very different experience that makes the silly ownership bullshit worth it. There aren’t a lot of mid engine cars under 2000lbs for a someone attainable price. Whereas you have your pick of 2900+lb FR four cyl coupes. Why choose one that is a pain to maintain while also being expensive?

That was my point. But in fairness, if everyone thought like me the automotive scene would be pretty boring.

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