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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
Garry's Mod has an anti-piracy 'bug' where the game will declare itself to be 'unable to shade polygon normals', in an error message that also includes the user's Steam ID. Anybody asking about this bug not only outed themselves as a pirate, but made it very specifically clear who they were when they did it.

As for non-piracy-related dick moves, I love Super Paper Mario, the game that hates you, the player, specifically.
One level pretends to be about holding right in the same room for hours.
Another level literally is just holding right to walk across a featureless plain.
The villain of the third chapter is a goony neckbeard who complains about literally everything he enjoys and kidnaps Peach to force her to participate in a dating sim.
There is a three textbox-long password that is only stated once. Using it is required to progress.
You have to complete the hardest challenge in the game twice to face the bonus boss and get the reward, because the game doesn't think you mean it when you do it the first time.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Choco1980 posted:

Regarding discussion of difficult to win battles that don't matter, I'm reminded of the intro to blitzball in Final Fantasy X. Blitzball's basically underwater rugby, and the first time you play it is mandatory, but you're against a team that at the time is MUCH better than you. It's EXTREMELY hard to beat them, but not impossible. This is the only mandatory time you have to play the game. If you lose, the game plays on as normal, as it expect you to. If you win, your main character gets this trophy he carries through the rest of the game, that actively effects nothing. That's the only real difference. I won't admit how many hours I spent getting good at Blitzball.

Making the Blitzball tutorial one of the hardest Blitzball games is a troll by itself, you barely get given the opportunity to learn the game before you lose it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Ryoshi posted:

Fran is Fantasy Chewbacca and goes everywhere with Balthier, duh. If we're continuing the metaphor Vaan is Fantasy Shirtless Adolescent Jar Jar Binks and Penelo is, I don't know, she really has zero relevance to the plot at any point.

I really hope there's an XII HD Remaster.

Vaan and Basch are both Luke Skywalker. It's just that Basch is all the interesting parts, and Vaan is all the boring ones.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The Endbringer posted:

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Hilltop Zone, Act 2.

The god drat springs facing each other like this | ------- | close together.

There's one of these in the last Classic Sonic level in Generations. It's beautiful.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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A lot of MGS4 was a troll in and of itself, with the game being a metaphor for how Kojima felt about the game itself. He just wanted to stop making Metal Gear already, and a lot of the game is designed as a bit of a 'gently caress you' towards the people who keep forcing him back in.

We already know the fact that Snake's health is a metaphor for how Kojima felt about the game, and a lot of you probably also know that he was really pushing for Snake to die at the end (either by execution or suicide), so I'm not going to talk about that. Instead, I'm going to talk about how Chapter 4 is the biggest middle finger of the lot.

Chapter 4 is Shadow Moses. You go back to that base where all of MGS1 is set, and the chapter starts by just straight-up letting you play through the start of MGS1 as a dream sequence. Right from the start, Kojima is saying 'you want this? You want to drag this corpse out more? Here you loving go'. And sure enough, he gives it to you. The first chunk of the chapter is going back through Shadow Moses, and it is miserable. Lifeless, dilapidated, filled only with trash enemies as a token effort to give some semblance of gameplay. Shadow Moses is as dead as Kojima wanted the series. A relic of another time, better left dead than dug up.

But of course, the end of the chapter is amazing. After a pretty decent boss fight against Vamp (who fights unlike anything actually from MGS1), we reach one of the most memorable parts of 4, the Vamp-Raiden showdown. Over the course of MGS4 Raiden's scenes have essentially been glimpses at a different, far more exciting game going on in parallel, and that showdown is the culmination of it. The game goes split-screen; on the bottom is the duel of the century, the two survivors of the least popular game in the series (and the first time Kojima got told 'no, we're not letting you end this') having the most amazing fight ever... which you don't get to even watch. You could have had this, but you kept asking for more goddamn Metal Gear and rejected Raiden and Vamp for not being Snake last time they turned up. So instead, you get to have a shootout with a bunch of samey, gimped psuedo-Metal Gears that provides no actual challenge, but enough attention that you can't just watch the other fight. Metal Gear Rising is going on right down there, and you can't have it.

Of course, then we get to have a giant robot fight between Metal Gears, brief as that is, to reinforce the idea. 'I could be making things like this, wouldn't that be awesome!? We would have so much fun! But no, you demand more Metal Gear.'

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Pneub posted:

Anything that directly involves Snake himself taking care of poo poo is badass. The other 60 hours are pretty safe to zone out through, though.

Only if by 'Snake' you also mean 'Raiden', who is so absurdly, hilariously awesome that they gave him an entire game.

If there's something that really gives Kojima an edge, though, it's how much gusto he puts into his trolling. He could (and it could be argued, actually did) make a game dedicated to the message of 'gently caress my playerbase' into an engaging, entertaining experience.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The Metroid Prime games do have a few missable scans, though. Most make a fair amount of sense (computers on a spaceship that's going to crash, bosses only fought once) so you don't really have anybody to blame but yourself, but others... two from the original stand out in my mind.

1. Missile doors. Locks that break when you shoot at them; they don't respawn, and stop appearing fairly quickly since missiles are the first item you get. By the time you realize that might have been what you missed, and why it might be nice to get 100% scan data, you've long destroyed all the missile locks.

2. I'm a bit hazy on this one, but I believe it's the Ice Shriekbats. An enemy that only appears in a single room until you get a certain item... that you're on your way to getting when you first go into the room. They look identical to an extremely common enemy, too, so you can easily not even notice that they're basically a one-off scan.

Prime 2 and 3 thankfully removed log book entries for stuff like missile doors, but I definitely remember Prime 2 pulling that second one as well.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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It's especially bad because Square actually does a lot of pretty solid re-releases of Final Fantasy games. Upgraded graphics, content, translation of the really old stuff, sometimes just a whole new engine... the GBA remakes of the sprite Final Fantasy games, the base of which they've continued to use for all other releases of those games, is pretty much the gold standard for how to outright remake a game, while FFX HD is a pretty solid HD re-release of a game that didn't altogether need much updating.

The FFVII rerelease is neither of them. It is just a straight port of the game that, across the entire series, needs more than that the most. For being the most famous installment, that game is janky as poo poo, and not often in very endearing ways. If you bought every Final Fantasy game in their most readily-available form right now, and then played them, FFVII would come off the worst because of how desperately in need of updating it is. IX and XII would be the only ones that might get a worse ranking in that listing because they haven't been ported or re-released at all, so you'd be stuck playing them on an original PS1 or PS2; they're still solid otherwise.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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No Such Thing posted:

3 and 4

and then 10 and 10-2 technically.

1, 2, 5 and 6 by a certain definition of 'modern' too, you can get smartphone ports with higher-res graphics. They look uncannily like an RPGMaker game with that treatment, though, so that might not be a positive.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Internet Kraken posted:

Its because a lot of early access games completely fail to live up to their promises or in some cases outright fall apart. Starbound has been in development for ages and the devs have changed huge portions of the game from what was originally promised, much to the ire of many fans. Then you have games like the Stomping Ground where the devs basically took the money they got from it and ran, completely abandoning the project entirely.

Personally I haven't participated in EA much because I like playing games when they are complete. The only EA game I've bought is Darkest Dungeon, and that's because the devs released a good chunk of the game that is stable and well made.

Cracked has an article today based on an interview with two of the guys who made Daikatana, and they actually talk about facing somethig like this. With regular game development you can cut back and change things without issue during development, but Daikatana's really early advertisement and hype locked them into expectations that they couldn't feasibly meet.

Some early access games might be running into the same issues; we're seeing things before we really should be, so the usual process of 'well, that's not working, let's get rid of it/change it' doesn't work as well as it should.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The White Dragon posted:

I was lucky enough not to gently caress my cart with Missingno, but I did get a Level 255 Blastoise that ruined everyone's poo poo :getin:

Missingno. was actually completely safe! He'd occasionally bug up some superficial things, but he'd never actually gently caress up your save. That was his brother 'M.

It's kind of fascinating to read up on Pokemon glitches, they're a combination of far-reaching, well-understood and in a well-known program that didn't have many failsafes. So it's really easy to understand just what causes them, and what they're doing.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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pretty soft girl posted:

As much as Street Fighter x Tekken was a complete design failure (and its DLC structure in and of itself was a complete troll), Capcom trolled fans really hard by excitedly promoting that Megaman would be in the PS3 version of the game. This version of Megaman to be exact:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FwecG0-e0Y

So many disappointed Capcom fans.

This was a troll with approval from Inafune himself. The director of SF X T really wanted Mega Man as a cameo character, but when he asked Inafune for permission his view was 'we've already seen Megaman in fighting games, come up with something clever'. So they came back with that, and he loved it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Tiggum posted:

I know the Doom space marine was in there, but were there others?

I don't know about protagonist, but I remember the quip 'I ain't afraid of no... Quake.'

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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vmdvr posted:

People say this, and I understand completely, but I have to say that no matter how stupid the plot may have gotten, playing ME3 as a vanguard may still be the most fun gameplay bioware has ever created.

Like, if you haven't played mass effect 2 and 3 as a vanguard, you haven't played the best versions of the games.

It's the best playstyle until you realize that you can't charge half of the things you actually want to charge, due to not being able to reach terrain you can't get to on-foot. I understand why this is, it'd mean you get stuck really often, but it leaves you a sitting duck on missions like the last one in ME2. And since the Vanguard primarily uses the shotgun as a weapon, you can be quite inordinately screwed in those fights.

There's also the issue that I do agree with Penguin, that ME2 abandoned everything I enjoyed about ME1 in favor of replacing it with Gears of War. A fun class in an un-fun game doesn't beat a moderately fun class in a fun game. And that kind of does feel like a troll, because at times ME2 feels like it's going out of its way to make fun of how ME1 did things.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Super Waffle posted:

:aaa:

Oh my god you just triggered the memory of 9 year old me walking through the local Computer City and ogling at all the awesome games in the Games aisle. I remember seeing the box and asking my dad about it. He chuckled and got me Amazon Trail.

If you want to see what you were missing, Chip Cheezum played a couple of them, including Winblows 98, on a stream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL26LalBAnM

Skip to 37 minutes if you want to get to the 'games', everything before that is Chip loving around on 1990s internet sites. That's funnier than what's waiting for you afterwards, though.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Tiggum posted:

No, there are "so bad it's good" games, it just has to be something other than the actual gameplay mechanics that's bad. Plenty of games have really dumb stories or badly-written characters that are fun to laugh at. They can even be worth playing if the gameplay is merely uninteresting, as long as the other elements are worth it. A film where the audio was so badly done that you couldn't understand what anyone was saying wouldn't be so bad it's good, because it's just impossible to consume as intended. Badly designed mechanics can bring a game down in the same way.

For comparison, a game I genuinely think is 'so bad it's good' is actually Metroid: Other M. In terms of raw gameplay, it's pretty decent; it kind of misses the mark on being a good Metroid game, being primarily composed of the things people didn't like about Metroid Fusion and then trying to patch things up with things people only sort of liked about Metroid Prime. But on its own, it's a decent game to play. It will not get in the way of you finishing it.

What makes Other M 'so bad it's good' is the story parts. Only one voice actor is any good, a lot of the cutscenes are so poor that it comes off that even the character models are bad actors, Samus is mischaracterized to almost hilarious levels, they try to pull a 'traitor' plot twist only to fail because the traitor only had like three lines, things become painfully stupid when the story tries to influence the gameplay (we're all looking at you, Varia Suit Scene)... The story is so incompetent that not only did it steal one of its most famous scenes from Smash Bros, but the version of the scene where Samus is saved by Pikachu is the more successful one.

Other M's gameplay never gets in the way of you experiencing what makes it hilariously bad. That's a key component of a 'so bad it's good' game, and it's the reason you don't get many of them.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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1stGear posted:

I really enjoy how Bethesda didn't remotely consider the possibility of someone killing Dagon so instead of a death animation or even just flopping over in a lovely but coherent way, the model completely breaks down. ~*award winning game developer*~

The guy that made the video is actually mistaken, he doesn't kill Dagon by hitting him; doing so is impossible, I think because of an infinite defense rating. He's actually indirectly harming him through use of the Reflect Damage effect (which is why he keeps glowing purple), which is one of only two-and-a-half ways to kill Dagon, all of them glitches. The others:
1. In the console versions, he's affected by the shapeshifting weapon Wabbajack; while he won't actually shapeshift, his stats will change to one of those monsters. Thus, he'll become as powerful as a mudcrab, or a troll or whatever.
1.5. While Absorb/Damage Fatigue spells don't actually harm Dagon (or anything, in fact) he'll melt into the ground anyway because the game has no idea what to do with the fact you just made him pass out.

By normal means Dagon is little more than a setpiece with a creature ID. He doesn't have a death animation because he doesn't die; you can only kill him by edge case glitches.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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The only issue I've ever seen with RPG levelling was what seemed to be an unintentional bug in Oblivion's. Oblivion's levelling system is almost a troll in itself, but the way it handled daedra especially was bad. It was a pretty simple system of 'you'd only see enemies in their level range', so by about level six you'd stop seeing scamps, level 4 was a rough one because it was when Clannfears started to appear, I think Flame Atronachs first turned up at level 8 so that was when elemental damage started becoming prevalent, stuff like that. It was a bit of an issue for alchemists, since they'd lose easy access to the ingredients they get from those monsters, but there's enough that it doesn't entirely matter.

...Except with Frost Atronachs. For some reason Frost Atronachs aren't actually in two of the three leveled lists for daedra, including the one used for Oblivion gates themselves. So you'll barely ever see them outside of special maps, which is a problem since they're supposed to be the best source of Frost Salts, an alchemy ingredient clearly intended to be pretty important for working with frost damage.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Internet Kraken posted:

Yeah I get the theory behind level scaling but when you apply it to almost every enemy in the game it gets ridiculous and takes away the sense of progress you would normally get. They seemed to have learned from that mistake though.

I always feel like, at least for an Elder Scrolls game, the ideal way to do enemy level scaling is to just never level out of an enemy's range, you should always be leveling up into it. As you level up enemies can still get harder, and sometimes you'll find some rad-as-hell bandit that's decked out in daedric gear (because you're not the only rad-as-hell adventurer, with the exception of Skyrim you're nobody special). But you'll always find some bandits to chump in half a hit, and you'll never be screwed out of Scamp Skin because you've stopped fighting Scamps.

Maybe Skyrim worked like that, I don't really remember. I'm pretty sure I stopped playing very quickly after becoming borderline-invincible in that game.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Nuebot posted:

But it's the future of gaming! Personally I can't wait until every game is the online equivalent of mario party.

An online version of the classic Mario Parties with full voice communication would actually be pretty fantastic. If any game would benefit from being in voice chat with a bunch of complete assholes, it's Mario Party back when it knew how to gently caress with people.

The rest of gaming can go ahead and forget voice chat existed and be far better for it. I'd be quite happy if gaming as a whole decided online multiplayer wasn't the Thing To Do anymore, but taht's just me, I prefer single-player games and it feels like there's a lot less of them. The only game I think was better off with online elements was Dark Souls, and wouldn't you know it, that game knew voice chat was lovely.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Inspector Gesicht posted:

Other M is the reason Metroid is dead, isn't it? 5 years on and the only game forthcoming is a multi-player spin-off where Samus Aran is an afterthought. Metroid was always more popular outside of its home country but they made Other M to appeal to Japanese audiences, even though a tenet of game-design is to never go full-on Japanese. The game bombed outside of its home country this time.

I wouldn't really say that. Metroid was going strong until Other M killed the momentum, yes, but remember that it took Nintendo eight years to follow up on Super Metroid, which was a Good Game.

It's a franchise that Nintendo just doesn't quite know what to do with. They know it has potential, that they're sitting on a franchise with an audience and a strong potential for success, but unlike pretty much every other established Nintendo franchise they just don't have a system or plan. So they keep trying new things, giving it to new developers and hoping it works.

In a sense, I can really respect that. Nintendo is a company with several series that you can guarantee will be good, but that does lead to a very samey situation; yes, I can tell you without even knowing that the upcoming Zelda and Fire Emblem games will be good, but if you don't like Zelda or Fire Emblem games then I won't be able to suggest anything otherwise. So them constantly rolling the dice with Metroid, giving it to entirely different people and just seeing their take on it, is refreshing because you won't see the same stuff. Sure it doesn't always work out, but that variety is a fantastic thing for them to be trying given the rest of their offerings.

...But at the same time, there isn't much that can compare, in terms of both quality and uniqueness on the market, to Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Metroid is in the same position as Paper Mario: they keep experimenting, trying things that don't always work, and that's great.... buuuuut literally all we could ever ask for is for them to just make another Super, Prime, or Thousand-Year Door.


It's a high hope, but I think there's a very strong solution available right now for Metroid, that would maintain both the constant willingness to try new things, as well as an assurance of quality and consistency: Kojima. Dude would loving love Metroid, especially if it were more in the vein of Prime.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Choco1980 posted:

If I were the type to believe :tinfoil: style ideas, I'd almost think part of the badness surrounding Other M is a direct response to the fanboys more like me who complain that no matter how good the Prime series is, it's actually nothing like playing the old school 2D Metroid games.

I mean, 3D platform shooters CAN be good. Like, look at Ratchet and Clank (ironically already mentioned). Take out the comedic cartoon tone of the game, and the engine really kinda plays like a good 3D Metroidvania would have during the Gamecube era. I mean, I understand why they took the risk, they didn't want to look samey and less creative after Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time actively used the same engine to create 3D versions of their beloved franchises, but the First Person style is so dramatically unlike the previous rest of the series that they could have cut out all direct references to Samus and called it something besides Metroid, and probably still done nearly as well in the end. That when they finally went back to a traditional look the game is so actively insulting on so many levels really screams "sour grapes" to me.

Sakamoto's got the George Lucas sort of thing going, where he as the creator thinks he knows exactly what makes his thing good but when given full control reveals very clearly just how little he understands his own success. Apparently a lot of Other M's more painful details of Samus' backstory are reminiscent of a Super Metroid manga adaptation that Sakamoto had a major part in, right down to her having a PTSD flashback when Ridley busts in. Mix in those details from the manga with the structure and some of the plot from Fusion (which he was, of course, making as a direct sequel to Super while Prime was being developed) and you have a lot of Other M right there.

He's also responsible for some of the weirder bits of the design of Prime 3. Retro wanted to include some open world elements, including some stuff like in-ship combat sequences (hence the borderline-useless ship upgrades), capitalizing on the fact that Samus is a bounty hunter that this time isn't stuck on a planet uprooting some space pirates or whatever. All of that was vetoed by Sakamoto, because it turns out he has no idea what a 'bounty hunter' actually does.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Choco1980 posted:

Thanks for reading my posts and missing the whole point. It wasn't the 3D I was complaining about, it was how the first person perspective completely changed the experience between the prime series and the other metroid games. Other M on the surface looked like "hey guys, we finally made a metroid game that feels more like the old ones!" when in reality it was "hey guys, gently caress you all and your mothers you ungrateful sacks of poo poo!"

Of course, neither Nintendo or Team Ninja actually thought this.

Sakamoto did. He hates the Prime series because of how he didn't have any involvement in it, more or less said he considered them to be non-canonical, and indirectly contradicted their introduction to the canon. Those greatly written Space Pirates, experts at putting their best and brightest to work on horrible ideas until they somehow work? Nah, they're mindless monsters now.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Mizuti posted:

I'm watching a friend play through Final Fantasy 10, and I just remembered dick move that game pulls on players. A good ways into the game, your party gets to a city named Home. It's in the middle of being attacked, with shrill music, alarms blaring, and corpses littering the ground. You're encouraged to hurry, hurry, hurry through it ASAP by the characters, and there's plenty of cutscenes to herd you forward.

Thing is, there's some irreplaceable treasures hidden there: Al Bhed Primers, books that help you translate the peculiar language cipher of the Al Bhed people. Some of them are in side rooms that are easy to miss entirely, including one you have to backtrack for. If you do backtrack, your party member Rikku starts reprimanding you for checking out the optional rooms.

So what happens if you don't pick up the primers? Home gets leveled to the ground and they're lost forever. Unless you upload the missing chapters from a different save file, you'll have gaps in the translation every time someone speaks Al Bhed. Sure, you can usually fill in the blanks yourself, but it's kinda annoying. :argh:

Aren't the Al Bhed Primers all invisible anyway? That's dick move enough. As I recall I found one in my FFX playthrough, and I'm a fairly meticulous player.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Regalingualius posted:

-You had to take a boat ride in order to get ambushed at sea... Way after you've already gotten the airship that makes boats obsolete.

-You had to bid 500,000 Gil on an auction that you'd have every reason to believe was a joke one where you always get outbid by an NPC for a completely useless sword. Then put that sword up for wager at the Coliseum to get a fight with the boss. I forget if it required you to also fight the monster you usually get when you put the sword up for wager (so you'd have absolutely no idea that there'd be a boss).

At least they (mostly) taught unique/powerful spells for your efforts, though.

There's oblique references to these, at least. For Leviathan, a new NPC mentions getting attacked on the ocean, which admittedly isn't much of a clue.

As for Gilgamesh, you are betting on his signature hunting quarry Excalipoor, so if you know the series then it should be clear what you're getting involved in. That doesn't tell you what you should be doing with it after you've got it, but a bit of lateral thinking could lead you to 'what did I do the other time I had a weapon somebody elusive wanted'. Of course, getting that guess wrong would screw you out of it forever, so that doesn't look like a good idea.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Len posted:

I cant wait for the posts about how Fallout 4 is only a good game with mods and Fallout 4 sucks because it's too easy to make sweet game breaking gear.

I can guarantee one of these, if not both, is going to be true regardless.

The gear modification system is the only thing I've heard about Fallout 4 that interests me, but I don't have faith in Bethesda anymore to see them pull that off in a way that's actually satisfying for all. If it was Morrowind-era Bethesda, yeah, I'd trust those guys to make it great, but not current Bethesda or even Oblivion-era Bethesda, despite my love for that last one.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Roro posted:

Probably cause and effect.

The events aren't actually related beyond being sort of a 'best-case versus worst-case' thing. Smash can actually get pretty good pulls from third-parties, because it's a known and respected success; they know what to expect with how Nintendo will treat their properties, and there's a confirmed market to advertise to because the series is very popular. At the same time, Nintendo doesn't actually need these third parties at all, people buy and play Smash largely on the strength of the games themselves and the Nintendo properties. So both sides have a pretty good bargaining point, they can meet on understood terms and it all goes very well.

Playstation All-Stars was hosed from the start, because none of that was true for them. It was an unknown development house and idea, that needed to rely very heavily on third-party properties. All negotiating power was in the third party's hands, leading to big names being omitted because their owners demanded too much money (Crash Bandicoot), some getting preferential treatment because the rights-holders threw their weight around (InFamous), at least one developer outright trolling the game, its audience and its creators (Capcom giving PASBR the Dante from the unpopular reboot while Project X-Zone got the original deal), and then the rest of the list being schizophrenically filled with indie and retro stuff that was cheap to get the rights to.

PASBR was an unsurprising mess when it actually came out, but I think the indie/retro chunk of the roster was actually quite popular afterwards, because that's where the post-release DLC started going. Smaller titles like Gravity Rush and Starhawk were made as DLC characters, with Abe from Oddworld and Dart from Legend of Dragoon being worked on along with a Journey stage.

Aaaaand then Superbot got shuttered, and further development shunted off to the development house behind God of War. Who ditched Abe and Dart in favor of Isaac Clarke and Zeus, and stopped releasing balance patches when Kratos and Zeus were absurdly overpowered.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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mycot posted:

It also really kills me that, in an age where people have become so confident about finding reveals weeks or months ahead of time, CLOUD STRIFE IN SMASH was kept in total hush hush secrecy.

I like to imagine that this is because Cloud was so unbelievable before they actually did it that nobody could leak it. Cloud was one of the characters people wheeled out to make exaggerated predictions, he was perhaps only second to Goku in that regard. Anybody actually leaking that would be accused of faking it by pretty much everyone, pretty much immediately.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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13Pandora13 posted:

It's a reasonable complaint.

I've been saying this stuff since before the game came out, but this guy's put it way better than I have. Probably because he's actually played the game instead of not buying it because of this exact problem.

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Feb 3, 2010


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13Pandora13 posted:

I'm already back to New Vegas. Maybe if, in a couple of years, there's modding that basically overhauls the dialog from the ground up I'll go back but whelp.

The Nexus has both already got a same-sex marriage save setup and a mod to remove all the player character's voiced lines. And that's without the mod tools. So that's the silver lining to me in all this; the people with the know-how to actually solve this problem also have the eye to see it and the willingness to do it.

It seems that this specific choice is the one most biting Bethesda in the rear end, though. I'd be interested to see both their justification and response, even if it takes them until their next game to make it.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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EDIT: ^^ In fairness, Confirmed Bachelor and Cherchez La Femme were not included by Bethesda, they were done by Obsidian in New Vegas. It's still a great idea they should've borrowed, though, and I want to say there were ways to initiate gay old times and/or lesbionics in the games before that. And of course, Skyrim had entirely gender-irrelevant marriages.

ArcMage posted:

I think my complaint is that it puts exactly the worst amount of plot into it. We don't have, like, Shepard or similar, who's an actual character I can get behind, we've got an almost blank slate, but with just enough characterization applied to stop me from quite playing the character I want to play.

It's a pretty tiny annoyance for me, but it's still an annoyance.

Actually, it's pretty much the exact possible anti-Shepard. While Shepard's a pretty defined character in the actual games, with a very specific list of objectives, we choose the actual personal history that led to them being in that position. Shepard will always be a militaristic badass, but it's up to you whether that's because of a military family raising them and being the sole survivor of an operation gone wrong, or because they're an orphan who joined the military to be a horrifying stone-cold killer. Your choice has minor in-game effects, but mostly it just helps to inform what sort of person the character might be in your hands. You can very easily ignore it, and in fact I have no idea what backstories I chose because it has so very little impact.

Fallout 4's protagonist has a VERY rigidly-defined pre-game story. Like was said: Married, straight, pre-war parent in a specific age and probably income bracket, that lives in the suburbs, and was either in the military or has a law degree depending on your gender. Even if the game does go 'but you know, whatever, do what you want' after the first half-hour, that leaves a MASSIVE print that, yes, you'll never be able to completely shake off.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 07:48 on Nov 15, 2015

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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There is an actual troll mission in New Vegas, which would be a decent comparison point especially to the one Shenk mentioned. The Sunset Sarsparilla quest has you constantly looking for and collecting bottle caps marked with a star, due to a 'legend' about them that you wind up tracing back to a promotional event from when the bombs fell. You're initially warned about a guy killing people for their bottle caps, but for the most part it's a pretty passive quest; you need to collect fifty of them, they're fairly rare, but since you randomly get them from sarsparilla bottles in the first place you'll wind up with a bunch eventually. Eventually, if you get enough caps, you'll be able to ope the vault and find...

A bunch of novelty sheriff badges. Because it was a contest for children. In retrospect, it should have been obvious that the contest prize itself wouldn't be useful because the only useful pre-war things in the game are military equipment. The corpse of the guy who went killing for the caps is in the safe too, though, and he has a unique and situationally-useful laser pistol. Depending on your character, maybe worth it.

But then you'll probably find out that the price of the star bottle caps has plummeted dramatically from the original value of ~1000 caps, and the pistol isn't so hot either. So pretty much no matter what, you're better off not doing that quest.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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g0lbez posted:

Am I the only one who loved the troll poo poo in Super Paper Mario and thought it was hilarious?

It is hilarious. That game just loves loving with the player, but not to the point where it's actively unpleasant.

Also, anyone complaining about the hamster wheel level is stupid as poo poo. You only need to earn ten rubies in the slowest wheel, and even that doesn't take long at all. Everything else is just a matter of talking to the right people.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Internet Kraken posted:

I'm pretty sure you have to backtrack to literally every area. Cause even if you know where he's gonna end up, he won't actually be there until you visit each area in the proper order.

To the game's credit, you do get this objective right at the same time as when you get full access to the game's fast travel system. So it's not actually hard to make the circuit, and it's a decent introduction to 'hey, look how easily you can access ever major area in the game now'.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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DudeGoofyGuy posted:

Also, at that pricing, with that many competitors, and with no real flagship software, I feel like this virtual reality thing is going to flop harder than anyone could imagine. The newest issue of GameInformer dubs 2016 "The Year of VR" while simultaneously ridiculing everything about the product's gaming applications in its closing pages. Virtual Reality itself is really just an industry-wide troll at this point.

It says something that perhaps the most popular game designed for VR (certainly up there, at least) is Keep Talking And Nobody Explodes, which uses it for isolation instead of immersion. VR's all well and good from a technological perspective, but the only game that's really done anything interesting with it is the one that didn't bother and instead capitalized on the fact that the player will be the only person actually seeing the game.

EDIT: And hell, I'm ultimately just assuming that Keep Talking was designed for VR, as opposed to just happening to work perfectly for it from that angle.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 15:36 on Dec 16, 2015

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Regalingualius posted:

I played the 3DS one last year, and while it was good, I didn't really find it to be the holy grail of gaming that everyone else seems to hold it up as.

The 3DS remakes of OoT and (especially) Majora's Mask do a great job of showing just how flawed the original games were. Not just in what they couldn't cover up, but in what they did.

Majora's Mask 3D entirely redesigned the temple bosses, because the originals were that bad.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Going back to straight-up game dev trolling, The Secret World just released its Christmas event alongside its newest update. As usual with them, it included a grab bag of random cosmetic rewards. This time it included things like faction-appropriate ugly woolen sweaters, a hover-snowboard, a husky pet, and an outfit marked only as 'MacReady's Gear'.

Mentioned nowhere was that, like the Halloween event just past having its main cosmetics based on ravens (and the pumpkin dance), the Christmas bag's main aesthetic was The Thing--MacReady being Kurt Russell's character. And as cool as that is, that does mean the innocently-named and adorable Siberian Husky pet explodes into a horrible mass of meat and tentacles.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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Aphrodite posted:

I was a little disappointed that while technically being modern, the game's zones are sleepy New England that may as well be the 70s, ancient Egypt and Transylvania.

Well, they do now have Tokyo in the wake of a Shin Megami Tensei-style apocalypse. They do really well with the modernism there, although I'll grant that area's characters are a little more outrageous than I like from a whole zone, there''s no 'normal people' left.

I'd say give it a shot if you're on the fence. It's got problems, and it doesn't entirely overcome the MMO trappings it could probably do without, but it's well-written and it brings some neat mechanical ideas that, while it doesn't really excel at, it does well enough that it's not a downside.

It also has a boss fight against what I think is the ghost of Bob Saget's career.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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I think my favorite part of all that is when he claims that Persona is a 'game that communicates truths similarly'. Goddamn, dude, not only do they have some pretty drat plain-faced messages, you've somehow just flat-out ignored that Persona is a spinoff of a series that... okay, I'm not sure if SMT does or doesn't support his supposed message, but I'm sure he has very strong opinions on it.

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Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


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mycot posted:

It's easy to miss because it's after pages of ranting about Satanism but the mod was the "all religion is lies" type (hence all the accusations of brainwashing), so it's more consistent than it looks. He specifically sought out video games with "gently caress you god/religion" themes to insert his anti-circumcision crusade.

...Persona doesn't talk about that at all. The rest of Shin Megami Tensei does, but the closest thing the Persona games (at least, the ones he holds up) come to mentioning it is 3 mentioning a cult, in one cutscene, once.

My guess is that he's that type of person who has nowhere near as deep a reference pool as he wants to pretend he does, so he inflates the importance of what he does know. Only instead of manifesting as 'Shadow of the Colossus is the most important piece of art produced in the modern age', it manifests as... that. The reason he only mentions Persona among Atlus' offerings, and only 3-5, is because they're the only ones he's played.

EDIT: vv I think I just drowned in the most obvious stupidity, and in order to be able to grab onto anything, found that.

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