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My employer is letting me go at the end of the month (or supposedly "I'm resigning" ...see below), so I just wanted to make sure I'm protected for receiving any potential benefits from unemployment, as well as getting all the compensation that is due to me. Any help/advice is much appreciated! Situation: In December 2013, my dad passed away and when I returned to work in January I told my supervisors/etc. that I would be moving away (back to the LA area to be with family) at the end of Q1 2014. At that point, I was basically considering it a resignation, but was willing to work remotely instead if that was a possibility. They did arrange that, with the idea that it would be temporary and I was originally given a timeline that I would only continue to work (remotely) for the company for about 2-3 months. Well, fast forward to now: one year later. During this whole time, I never got any updated timeline or any notification of how long I would be able to continue working remotely. Until yesterday, when they informed me that I would no longer be employed as of April 1st. I have not yet talked to HR to determine anything, wanted to get a bit of advice first. They are trying to tell me this counts as my resignation, "according to the original agreement" which I think is bullshit. The original agreement was that I would resign in April 2014, and here we are a year later me still working for them, so I just feel like that does not fall within the original resignation or the initial timeline of 2-3 month temporary period that was agreed. So my main questions are: 1) Does this distinction even matter? (primarily thinking about unemployment benefits, I'm in CA for reference) 2) If so, do I have a leg to stand on to argue for this being a termination rather than resignation? Other questions/topics I intend to go over with HR: 401K - just want to make sure I can roll over current 401k to new job/etc. fairly easily Sick hours - will I get paid out for these? (I do get paid out for Vacation hours) Final paychecks - currently setup for direct deposit, hoping they can just continue doing that. Spring Bonus - I definitely earned it (if we get one), since I worked the full fiscal year. Problem being that the bonus is not guaranteed and it's only determined whether or not people are going to get a bonus after the Q1 financial release call (i.e. sometime in April). Am I entitled to receive anything if a bonus is given out to other employees next month? Kinda seems like I'm just screwed on this one. Anything else I should definitely ask about/go over with them? Edit - forgot to mention: I've been working with the company for about 4.5 years, in my current position for 2.5. Let me know if there are any other relevant details that might help. hot salad fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 17:03
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As far as am I aware a willful resignation almost always will disqualify you from unemployment benefits (barring something like quitting for lack of pay, sexual harassment, common sense stuff like that).
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Mar 10, 2015 17:10
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Thanks...that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm not really banking on unemployment, I'm just getting flashbacks to the last time I searched for a job (though that was when I was fresh out of college w/ no experience) and what a hellish time that was, and how loving long it took before I finally got hired on. I just feel like it shouldn't count as a willful resignation at this point, considering I've been working there for over a year since my supposed resignation. If they had let me go within the timeframe of the initial agreement (2-3 months) then sure I would consider that to be part of my original resignation, but since we are long past that this just seems kinda sudden and now I have to rush to get my poo poo together (granted, that's my fault but I'll still blame them if I can!  ).I really should have gotten something in writing but it was kind of a last-minute scramble to figure out the whole "working remotely" thing (because half the team got fired around that time and they were pretty desperate to keep me).
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Mar 10, 2015 18:31
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What, exactly, do you have in writing?
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Mar 10, 2015 18:36
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http://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm Fight for unemployment no matter what. edit: I thought you said you're in California. If you're not then check out your local statutes for this thing they should be online. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 18:38
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I thought you said you were moving at the end of 2014Q1? Why are you still there?
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Mar 10, 2015 18:39
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Thanatosian posted:What, exactly, do you have in writing? Literally nothing, I just kinda let my supervisor handle everything which in retrospect was stupid. I will check with her to see if I can get my hands on any 'official' documentation. Knyteguy posted:http://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/Voluntary_Quit_VQ_5.htm Thanks for this! Yep it's California, I'll look through that and see what may apply. Totally agreed, I definitely intend to fight for unemployment regardless, I'm just not planning to rely on it (hopefully). Grouco posted:I thought you said you were moving at the end of 2014Q1? Why are you still there? I did actually move, sorry if that was unclear. I've been working remotely from home for the past year (in a different city than the company is based in). If you're asking why am I still working for the company, it's because: working from home is rad, plus the company itself is pretty amazing so I wasn't really in a big hurry to leave...I guess I just assumed they would give me more than a 3 week heads up if/when the working-remotely thing fell through, considering I gave them like a 3 month notice but obviously that's just dumb/naive on my part.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:22
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the wildest turkey posted:Literally nothing, I just kinda let my supervisor handle everything which in retrospect was stupid. I will check with her to see if I can get my hands on any 'official' documentation. I checked in with my boss - and she also doesn't have a written record of anything...so obviously we are not the most well-organized company. Anyway, I think I'm going to go ahead and request a meeting with my HR person to try and figure this poo poo out, so hopefully it's relatively painless. If anyone has any other recommendations for things to go over with them, I'm still open to suggestions. Thanks again!
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Mar 11, 2015 21:09
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the wildest turkey posted:I checked in with my boss - and she also doesn't have a written record of anything...so obviously we are not the most well-organized company. Don't resign, file for unemployment after they lay you off. They are just trying to get out of paying unemployment. You're a dead man walking, don't sign anything that might compromise your unemployment benefits.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:16
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California? There is pretty much zero chance of you NOT getting unemployment and being paid your sick time.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:16
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DJCobol posted:California? There is pretty much zero chance of you NOT getting unemployment and being paid your sick time. haha that's what I'm hoping. God drat I love this state. Inept posted:Don't resign, file for unemployment after they lay you off. They are just trying to get out of paying unemployment. You're a dead man walking, don't sign anything that might compromise your unemployment benefits. Totally agreed, they are just already claiming that this is a "resignation" (because last year I told them I was going to move), which is what I plan to argue against. Again I haven't actually spoken to HR about it (this was just what my boss told me that HR told her) so maybe it will go smoothly...a man can dream.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:53
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Can I just say that I think a lesson learned here is to don't just sit on something. Like of you were working remotely past the original intent, why didn't you contact them and ask them what was up with your employment? I guess maybe it could've blown your "cover" but its probably preferable to whatever you have to go through now...
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Mar 12, 2015 19:07
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Talked to my HR person today and they are sticking to the "this counts as my resignation" thing, but I may have a decent chance at getting unemployment benefits even if that's how it goes, given the circumstances. Unfortunately, since you can't file for unemployment before actually being unemployed I can't really check to see if I qualify until afterwards. Ugh. I'm thinking of conceding this point, and just hoping that I will qualify (though I'm not relying on getting benefits - barring any unforeseeable catastrophes, I should be okay financially even without ANY income for a few months), and focus my time/effort on actually finding a new job rather than trying to argue about the terms of my leaving. Crazyweasel posted:Can I just say that I think a lesson learned here is to don't just sit on something. Absolutely, I was mostly just being a lazy and depressed/unmotivated dumbass. Part of it was that my boss was trying to keep me on as a permanent employee (but still working remotely) so I wasn't really concerning myself with it, but obviously I should have gotten involved with that whole process so that I would at least be in the loop. Another part of it is that I never really loved the job anyway (the company/people are cool, but the work itself is not challenging or rewarding...well, except financially I guess), so in the back of my mind I've been ready to leave for quite a while but again just being lazy/dumb in not actually looking for something else earlier. I chose the "stupid" thread icon for a reason
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Mar 12, 2015 20:14
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When your boss said there was no written record of anything, did that not include your supposed resignation?
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Mar 12, 2015 20:25
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They continued paying you for an entire year after you moved, and you are in California. I definitely like your odds of getting unemployment checks. Edit: I wouldn't continue emailing them to argue if I were you. It only gives them written material from you to use to dispute your unemployment benefits claim, in the event that they choose to dispute it. If I were you, my logic is basically: I moved and via mutual agreement kept my job remotely, it worked out for literally more than a year, and then they emailed me and told me I was terminated. That's it really. Droo fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 20:45
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RheaConfused posted:When your boss said there was no written record of anything, did that not include your supposed resignation? As far as I can tell/remember there was no written resignation, because my boss was still fighting for me to stay on permanently. Everything on my end was just done through meetings/calls, not in writing. Though, I just looked it up and our company policy on resigning is that they accept verbal or written resignations so I think it's a moot point. Doubly so because: Droo posted:They continued paying you for an entire year after you moved, and you are in California. I definitely like your odds of getting unemployment checks. DJCobol posted:California? There is pretty much zero chance of you NOT getting unemployment (Kinda sad about the sick time thing (it is actually company policy) but it's not a huge issue since it's just a few days. Plus I'll use a couple of them this month to set up a few doctor visits while I still have cheap-ish health insurance.) quote:Edit: I wouldn't continue emailing them to argue if I were you. It only gives them written material from you to use to dispute your unemployment benefits claim, in the event that they choose to dispute it. Ha, I actually thought of this and have only been talking to them via phone about all this, though I honestly don't think they would try to dispute it. The HR person I talked to today specifically mentioned that, given my situation, I should have a decent shot at getting unemployment benefits. I've mentioned a few times, but the company really is pretty great and very much employee/family friendly etc. - but at the end of the day, it's still a business so it's not like I'm expecting them to go out of their way to help me (I just don't think they would try to deny me, especially after everything I've done to help them out...but again, it's a business so who knows). So yeah I think I'm officially giving up on this argument since it seems like I should have a good chance at getting the unemployment anyway, plus I have plenty of other things to figure out. Thanks everyone for your input! Helps ease my mind a bit.
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Mar 12, 2015 21:37
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IANAL and don't know much about unemployment law, but it seems like conceding that you did actually resign to HR is a good way to end up not getting unemployment.
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Mar 12, 2015 21:38
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Here's the way I see it. IANAL applies. 1. You resigned. That resignation was not accepted. 2. The intent behind your original resignation was that you needed to move and (you believed) there was not a job for you in California. Your employer worked with you to create a remote position that you could do from California. 3. Effectively, you resigned your first job (on-premises in wherever this company is HQ'd) and were hired to do a second job (the same role, remote from California). At this point, your original resignation no longer applies and if they want you to go, they have to terminate you. You are correct to note that a more productive use of your time is to look for a new job. Don't worry about contesting anything right now, because the only person that matters who you convince is the Unemployment bureau in California.
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Mar 12, 2015 21:42
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Thanatosian posted:IANAL and don't know much about unemployment law, but it seems like conceding that you did actually resign to HR is a good way to end up not getting unemployment. Whoops, "concede" was a very poor choice of words on my part. I'm not telling HR anything, I just meant giving up on arguing it further for now (and instead of worrying about that, focusing on finding a new job) and letting the unemployment folks decide. wintermuteCF posted:Here's the way I see it. IANAL applies. Thanks, that's an interesting idea - I hadn't thought of it as being two separate positions, though today HR did mention specifically that this wasn't a remote position which is why I'm being cut off (i.e. because it is an in-house position and ours was only a temporary agreement). Also the company HQ is in California too, just a different region (I don't think it matters but just in case).
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Mar 12, 2015 22:31
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Looking at this from a different angle. Be careful burning the bridge. Is a few months unemployment worth losing a positive reference? I can almost guarantee you that if you fight them on this point and win you will not get a good reference out of them. It's unlikely they'll say anything negative to future employers, but it's a definite possibility. Unbiased perspective = this is your fault. You had a job, you resigned, they agreed to keep you on for a few months while you moved (effectively doing you a favor), you took advantage of it, and now you're going after them for helping you out.
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Mar 12, 2015 22:49
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If it was me I'd just stop talking to HR about it and never utter the word resignation again if you can help it. It's none of their drat business what you do after leaving that job and the only thing you can do talking to them now is give them poo poo to potentially use against you in an unemployment dispute. If it's true that they don't have any written proof of anything it's your word against theirs during a dispute. If you haven't signed anything what are they gonna do?
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Mar 13, 2015 03:49
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Since when does your corporate employer give recommendations? Never. They confirm dates of employment. Your prior managers give recommendations. And at this point, OP's manager is fighting for them, not against. I would stop talking to HR about it and wait to be fired. Don't sign anything saying resignation. Done. Also, bonus pay usually isn't paid out but it shouldn't be clearly written out in your bonus policy. My company paid last Friday, and a director quit today (gave 2 weeks, 2 weeks ago); the company fired another manager Friday before last, which saved them somewhere north of $10k vs waiting a week. Layoffs also always happen in February - after year end, before bonuses!
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Mar 13, 2015 07:14
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SiGmA_X posted:Also, bonus pay usually isn't paid out but it shouldn't be clearly written out in your bonus policy. My company paid last Friday, and a director quit today (gave 2 weeks, 2 weeks ago); the company fired another manager Friday before last, which saved them somewhere north of $10k vs waiting a week. Layoffs also always happen in February - after year end, before bonuses!
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Mar 13, 2015 07:26
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Thanatosian posted:And then if you get a better offer and take off leaving them in the lurch, they just don't understand your lack of loyalty; it's so weird!
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Mar 13, 2015 13:31
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Thanks again goons! I'm definitely doing the "don't talk to them about it anymore" approach, for pretty much all the reasons pointed out.Thanatosian posted:And then if you get a better offer and take off leaving them in the lurch, they just don't understand your lack of loyalty; it's so weird! SiGmA_X posted:A senior director is RETIRING at the end of the month, and the controllers email to the dept dripped with hate. How dare someone in their 60's retire and make the dept find a new person!?! With 2mo+ notice?! Yeah things like this are why I'm not really looking forward to finding a new job elsewhere, but I feel like it's unavoidable no matter where you go, which is kinda sad. SiGmA_X posted:Also, bonus pay usually isn't paid out but it shouldn't be clearly written out in your bonus policy. My company paid last Friday, and a director quit today (gave 2 weeks, 2 weeks ago); the company fired another manager Friday before last, which saved them somewhere north of $10k vs waiting a week. Layoffs also always happen in February - after year end, before bonuses! Oh I was absolutely expecting the answer to be "You're not getting poo poo" (which is basically the answer I got ) but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask just in case!
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Mar 13, 2015 19:07
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DJCobol posted:California? There is pretty much zero chance of you NOT getting unemployment and being paid your sick time. California doesn't pay out sick time, just vacation time.
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Mar 23, 2015 07:41
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