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Meowywitch posted:I can tell you everything is 100% solvable by the time you put down episode 4 I would add a qualifier to this that it's possible to fully figure out the "how," but I have no idea how someone would figure out the "why" that early (and the correct "how" is very strange/confusing without the "why"). While a ton of the best "evidence" is in episode 2, you don't really have any provable context for a lot of things until episode 7.
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Jan 16, 2024 07:04
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Ytlaya posted:I would add a qualifier to this that it's possible to fully figure out the "how," but I have no idea how someone would figure out the "why" that early (and the correct "how" is very strange/confusing without the "why"). While a ton of the best "evidence" is in episode 2, you don't really have any provable context for a lot of things until episode 7. Based on one person I'm reading, it's quite possible to figure out everything by ep 1. Granted, I believe they're over 100 hours in and they just finished their writeup of the fourth twilight, so... Plausible, absolutely not.
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Jan 16, 2024 09:47
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I was discussing Umineko online before the solution parts were published and people definitely had all the elements of the solution, just no-one managed to synthesise it into a unified theory that makes sense. Although there were a couple of misleading translations in the partial fanpatches that threw people off a lot.
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Jan 16, 2024 10:46
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i have absolutely seen people reading umineko who have correctly figured out the culprit a couple murders into episode 1. it's possible to solve. the "game" that the novel is referring to is it asking you to solve the mystery it's setting out in front of you rather than passively continuing to read it. umineko is an extraordinarily well translated novel & it genuinely does not have any wasted time. it's awesome that you are noticing inconsistencies, and a better way to think about it might be to wonder why those inconsistencies exist
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Jan 16, 2024 18:20
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I'm sure you can guess the culprit based on general vibes and themes in ep1 but it seems very hard to work out the core meta-rules without at least seeing episode 2's pattern of magic never happening in front of Battler. There are several scenes in episode 1 that seem almost guaranteed to throw you off until you go back to them with a better understanding of how Umineko 'works' (and I think that's fully intended)
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Jan 16, 2024 18:51
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I guess I don't grasp the rules quite yet. (ep2) My main issue is whether things happening on screen should be taken at face value, or if the game is showing me lies. Because if what's being shown is the truth, everything is clearly supernatural and the mysteries can all be explained away with "a witch did it" edit: oh god the Hempel's Raven bit in ep3 is so broken logically. THAT IS NOT HOW CONTRAPOSITIVES WORK ymgve fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 19:15
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I would just say go ahead and read chapter 3, where things on this front should be more clear.
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Jan 16, 2024 19:37
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Ketchupface posted:i have absolutely seen people reading umineko who have correctly figured out the culprit a couple murders into episode 1. it's possible to solve. idk man I felt like a ton of my time was wasted especially in the meta segments of them just telling me poo poo over and over or scenes dragging on way too long saying it doesn't have any wasted time about umineko of all things is wild to me, that's my main complaint about it
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Jan 16, 2024 23:40
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Ryukishi has said that he repeated things more than he'd have liked to. That said, given how many people miss certain obvious things even when they're repeated tons of times... (You should see what interesting things appeared from what they did for the stage play, as a note.) Cyouni fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 00:23
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It's a difficult thing because if you repeat things too much it starts sloughing off the brain. His over repetition and his desire to include everyone in a scene no matter how inconsequential are his worst writing traits.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:42
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The culprit is honestly one of a vanishingly short list of people on a careful read through of episode 1, and episode 2 gives a huuuuge weird meta-hint about it towards the very beginning, but the truths of how and why are basically impossible until the very, very rear end-end of Episode 5.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:55
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Ketchupface posted:i have absolutely seen people reading umineko who have correctly figured out the culprit a couple murders into episode 1. it's possible to solve. Were these people keeping, like, a spreadsheet of all the things that happened? I read all of Umineko and quite enjoyed it but it was impossible to remember enough of the details to even contemplate solving anything. Hell, if put on the spot I couldn't even explain the solution now despite reading the whole thing. Maybe my brain is just not wired correctly for mystery stories
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Jan 17, 2024 03:28
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It was pretty obvious tbh 
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Jan 17, 2024 05:08
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Rockman Reserve posted:The culprit is honestly one of a vanishingly short list of people on a careful read through of episode 1, and episode 2 gives a huuuuge weird meta-hint about it towards the very beginning, but the truths of how and why are basically impossible until the very, very rear end-end of Episode 5. I think the main barrier is that the player is often inclined to assume that there must be some weird trick allowing an unexpected person to be the culprit. The narrative plays on this through Battler as the PoV character. Early on, Kanon is (correctly!) proposed as an obvious leading suspect. But Battler pushes back against it, accompanied by Dread of the Grave, and the reader is inclined to assume it's actually someone less expected. Same with the idea of the servants' involvement - other characters point out the obvious necessity of their involvement and Battler pushes back against this. Also, as someone who played Higurashi first, I spent a while open to the possibility of supernatural elements in the core mystery. Redmark posted:Were these people keeping, like, a spreadsheet of all the things that happened? I read all of Umineko and quite enjoyed it but it was impossible to remember enough of the details to even contemplate solving anything. Hell, if put on the spot I couldn't even explain the solution now despite reading the whole thing. There are basically (no one who hasn't finished Umineko read this) two core "tricks" that explain the vast majority of murders: - Servants were in on it - Accomplices, paid off by the gold, also just lie about stuff This covers most things. Just the (very large number of) accomplices, made possible through a combination of "Sayo being the new family leader," "the gold," and "the threat of the guns," lying about stuff. This is basically why the "why" is so important, since a big part of the core mystery is "learning the circumstances that would lead to so many dang accomplices" (and also the circumstances that could lead to different accomplices in different "games"). I think that a more complex approach involving "a big red text logic puzzle" actually makes things harder and more confusing, since you're missing so much important information with that approach. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 05:20
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My brother got me Muv-Luv for Christmas and initially in those scene with the robot combat game I was clicking on the targets that were appearing on screen in a panic thinking they were a Point Blank style quick time minigame that would affect the outcome of the scene. Eventually I realised they weren't and I wish I could go back to thinking they were. Really enjoying Muv-Luv still though.
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Jan 17, 2024 05:32
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Don't know if it's been posted before, but someone made steamed hams into a playable umineko episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddJHCUmIC8M
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Jan 17, 2024 08:58
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Arbitrary Number posted:Don't know if it's been posted before, but someone made steamed hams into a playable umineko episode. this is incredible lmao
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Jan 17, 2024 18:05
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bahahaha that is loving incredible e: I keep cracking the gently caress up over the last redtext before the credits but that’s almost kind of an actual Umineko spoiler to say Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 19:18
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on ep4 now and I guess one of my theories went out the window - I suspected the clock pointing at the red 12 meant that a chapter would be "canon" and ultimate truth, but in this "12" chapter, the supernatural characters are all over the place. They didn't explicitly mention the method of the first supernatural murders, so I guess it could still hold, but that would mean there are tons of people pretending to be supernatural characters walking around
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Jan 19, 2024 01:59
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Finished Umineko Episode 4 now, and I've got...thoughts. I feel like the game has lied a bit too much and it makes it hard to trust it. The reveal about Kinzo means that basically every scene in Kinzo's study has been a flat out lie - it's not an alternate reality that can be explained if witches exist, it flat out couldn't have happened in either reality. Which then throws every other scene into question too. I'm trusting the game that every text in red is the truth, but even that trust is starting to shake a bit. I also assume everything Battler witnessed personally is true, but it's never been stated. That leaves most of the game in limbo - did the parents even have a fight about the inheritance at all? Did George even give Shannon a ring? Are all the scenes outside of the time of the game a lie too? I assume that everything will come to a satisfactory conclusion, or the game wouldn't be so well liked, but at the midpoint, I'm a bit conflicted.
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Jan 19, 2024 18:02
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Lol
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Jan 19, 2024 18:06
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ahaha.wav
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Jan 19, 2024 18:10
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"Shut up, witch!!!!!" 
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Jan 19, 2024 18:15
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ymgve posted:Finished Umineko Episode 4 now, and I've got...thoughts. I feel like the game has lied a bit too much and it makes it hard to trust it. The reveal about Kinzo means that basically every scene in Kinzo's study has been a flat out lie - it's not an alternate reality that can be explained if witches exist, it flat out couldn't have happened in either reality. Which then throws every other scene into question too. I'm trusting the game that every text in red is the truth, but even that trust is starting to shake a bit. I also assume everything Battler witnessed personally is true, but it's never been stated. That leaves most of the game in limbo - did the parents even have a fight about the inheritance at all? Did George even give Shannon a ring? Are all the scenes outside of the time of the game a lie too? As for the rest, well thematically it's for the best to just press on to see what the game might have to say about it all.
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Jan 19, 2024 18:46
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Ok yeah I just finished episode one of Umineko and so that's what all of the fuss was about. Holy poo poo that was incredible. Maybe it's because I like upstairs/downstairs, murder mystery, occult stuff and rich family bullshit more than After School Club Hijinks, but I'm liking this even more than Higurashi. gently caress, I need to get into Episode 2 soon so I can start looking at what you all are so thoughtfully spoiler tagging. Anyway, thoughts after episode one. Love the cast, especially Battler, Natsuhi, and Eva. Wish I'd started taking notes from the beginning, but I have some theories and ideas. Looking forward to being proven completely wrong in subsequent chapters. Also more writers should be willing to pull this kind of baller move.  "It's like something I read in this great novel called The Shining," Randal Flagg said. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."
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Jan 20, 2024 00:31
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Mentioning the sprites below reminds me to tell the other new player to please change the sprites to either the PS3 ones or the original ones if possible, if they're playing the Steam version. The default Steam sprites cause me actual pain, knowing they're many peoples' first exposure to the VN. Many just violently clash with the characters they're portraying, like Battler's.EndOfTheWorld posted:Ok yeah I just finished episode one of Umineko and so that's what all of the fuss was about. Holy poo poo that was incredible. Maybe it's because I like upstairs/downstairs, murder mystery, occult stuff and rich family bullshit more than After School Club Hijinks, but I'm liking this even more than Higurashi. gently caress, I need to get into Episode 2 soon so I can start looking at what you all are so thoughtfully spoiler tagging. Are you using the original sprites (since I notice the original type of text/backgrounds)? Props if so. I originally played with the PS3 sprites, but in hindsight I think the original ones are best at communicating expressions, despite being kind of goofy looking. Missing out on the voice-acting would be a shame, though (even if elements of it do make solving certain mysteries harder IMO), since it's really great.
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Jan 20, 2024 01:25
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I'd say the red text is better thought of for a tool to establish whether you're on the right track or not when you have a theory. It doesn't really have the critical hints you need to start thinking along the right lines, that's mostly in the actual story.
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Jan 20, 2024 01:32
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I'd say the red text is better thought of for a tool to establish whether you're on the right track or not when you have a theory. It doesn't really have the critical hints you need to start thinking along the right lines, that's mostly in the actual story. Yeah. In general, as I think the game itself points put, the "pieces" (the characters) behave as they actually would, so you're still getting useful information from the "magic scenes" (since they're still depicting genuine attitudes, etc). Edit: Edited in spoiler tags, though I kinda disagree it's a spoiler when the game itself tells you this Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 01:38
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Giving too much away
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Jan 20, 2024 01:49
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i must agree, please stop coaching people how to read umineko
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Jan 20, 2024 01:50
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delete that poo poo learning to look with love is the journey each Uminkeo reader must travel themselves it is for the onlooker to laugh and taunt
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Jan 20, 2024 01:58
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fez_machine posted:delete that poo poo it is the responsibility of the reader to trust that the author isn’t just wasting your time with bullshit and it is the responsibility of the author to not waste that trust time with bullshit in a sense, every day of our life is umineko
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Jan 20, 2024 02:01
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Also reminder that there is a Higurashi/Umineko thread for scenarios like now when there are like 40 straight Umineko posts.
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Jan 20, 2024 02:02
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Yoo mee neekos
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Jan 20, 2024 02:02
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dmboogie posted:it is the responsibility of the reader to trust that the author isn’t just wasting your time with bullshit and it is the responsibility of the author to not waste that trust time with bullshit maybe that's where I went wrong because I got into episode 8 and I still thought all the magic anime fight scenes from the whole thing were mostly a waste of time but I didn't spend time poring over the details of them because I was too busy just being like "ok well if this isn't happening who gives a gently caress" very light spoilers about contents of episode 2 and on
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Jan 20, 2024 02:12
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Stefan Prodan posted:maybe that's where I went wrong because I got into episode 8 and I still thought all the magic anime fight scenes from the whole thing were mostly a waste of time but I didn't spend time poring over the details of them because I was too busy just being like "ok well if this isn't happening who gives a gently caress" yeah, every time an energy sword/shield fight happened or the bunny sisters showed up and started talking in fake-tech speak, I rolled my eyes so hard I now got astigmatism
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Jan 20, 2024 02:21
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ymgve posted:yeah, every time an energy sword/shield fight happened or the bunny sisters showed up and started talking in fake-tech speak, I rolled my eyes so hard I now got astigmatism the important thing to know about ryukishi07 is that he genuinely loves that poo poo and is writing for a target audience that is also presumably into that poo poo lmao often these magical fights carry thematic weight or reveal facets of the ‘real’ characters that would otherwise never be seen… but sometimes they’re just an extended joke about death flags
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Jan 20, 2024 02:34
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Arbitrary Number posted:Don't know if it's been posted before, but someone made steamed hams into a playable umineko episode. This is masterful, and made me want to play Umineko again.
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Jan 20, 2024 03:33
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Stefan Prodan posted:maybe that's where I went wrong because I got into episode 8 and I still thought all the magic anime fight scenes from the whole thing were mostly a waste of time but I didn't spend time poring over the details of them because I was too busy just being like "ok well if this isn't happening who gives a gently caress" Definitely a mistake, (full spoilers) for instance, you might want to look at a lot of the fantasy scenes of episode 2 and consider what they're saying. How Beatrice interacts with Shannon and Kanon (there's a reason furniture is the theme here), how Kanon shows up in front of Nanjo specifically with a gaping wound talking about how it's no big deal (think about episode 7 here), and how mirrors are coming up here as a concept.
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Jan 20, 2024 18:58
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Cyouni posted:Definitely a mistake, (full spoilers) for instance, you might want to look at a lot of the fantasy scenes of episode 2 and consider what they're saying. How Beatrice interacts with Shannon and Kanon (there's a reason furniture is the theme here), how Kanon shows up in front of Nanjo specifically with a gaping wound talking about how it's no big deal (think about episode 7 here), and how mirrors are coming up here as a concept. yeah I guess but as the poster above said my eyes were rolled back too hard at that point to read the text, also at that point in the game I was like nowhere near even having a framework to process what might be important and not so it's sort of easy to say that in retrospect I think but hard in the moment to be like "ok what if anything actually matters here, is there some meaning to this particular goofy anime weapon vs another" or whatever also I still don't really understand, even all the way through the game, what is supposed to be going on in the tea party and ??? segments and how I was supposed to interpret them at the time. are they really characters talking at any point? are they in some other universe? like, are they literally happening at all in any way? because in some of them, if I remember right, some stuff actually does happen, so like...does it happen? there's just a ton where I still have no idea what is going on even mostly through the game. like who are the other witches supposed to be, do they exist at all, etc. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 19:27
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