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Stein;Gate 0 was the first VN I've touched in ages and I gobbled it during my free time in the week and absolutely splurged it over the weekend. A little disappointing in finishing plotlines and some weird poo poo that didn't bring anything to the story, but I'm still glad I finished it. That being said the game really hit some heartstrings and quite often too, and I like that but I can't help wondering if that's not due to being overly attached to the cast well, Kurisu and Okabe and my general sentimentality. I learned to appreciate Okabe's chuunibyou bullshit more which is saying something considering how egregious I considered it watching that anime years ago. It was also interesting seeing Okabe be depressed/"normal". Liked the art and how it conveyed that. Shame they dropped the original art style for the most part. Interestingly enough in the "cold storage" part they used the original sprites Roughly 50 hours (At least few hours of afk in total) played within a week, so with all the emotional manipulation I feel kinda broken now. Probably never going to put this kind of time in games ever again. I really should buy the original for PC to replay it if to only see how it compares... And rewatch the anime and finish Higurashi this decade. ... Finishing Higurashi is hard.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:22
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Well, I finished Fata Morgana. That was definitely a journey all right. It didn't feel like the best VN or even the most emotional VN I've played but I can definitely think it of as a type of a masterpiece. Not saying it's not incredibly good though. Haunting and the OST was great. I did almost refund it due to the first two music tracks played when the "game proper" started. The first one after the intro almost broke my ears. Perhaps I'll get back to Higurashi one day now. I just can't stand the characters being as young as they are. Looking at VNDB, of the fairly well rated VNs that have English translations I've now finished are: MuvLuv Steins;Gate Ever17 Fate/Stay DR1+2 Tsukihime Any "must plays" still around there? I'm guessing Clannad? Maybe I should just give up on Higurashi and go for Umineko? I think I've gone through the chapters that go through the meat of Higurashi's mystery but it's not really grabbing me. Steins;Gate is still definitely my favourite, it made me legit cry. MuvLuv - allthough questionable, is incredible piece of work. F/SN, regardless of the hate it receives to a degree is still something I enjoy. Fata Morgana was really...classy. I do like all of the VNs I listed there. I think I gave Grisaia a shot but that poo poo is way too skewy, disgusting and pretentious and marred by extremely lovely pace. edit: Fata Morgana was my one and only black friday purchase thanks to this very thread. So, thank you. It seemed to be the best VN on sale that I hadn't already played. Dessel fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 6, 2017 |
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Dec 6, 2017 02:40
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Yeah I actually forgot s;g:0. I enjoyed "normal"/depressed Okabe. Is that a weird thing to enjoy in the story?
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Dec 6, 2017 05:32
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When does Umineko actually get good? I've got slightly over 6 hours of active playtime and sure there's mystery of extra or not? person on the island but jesus this game reminds me why I can't often stand VNs and their pacing. None of the characters seem that interesting either and the protagonist? seems quite unlikable so far. I'm also sure some of the dumb stuff like why the hell would servants live on a far-off island are going to be answered because it's strongly hinted that they're either somehow bound to the master or they are not what they appear to be but it still doesn't help the initial depiction. My largest hope for the game so far is that Beatrice is either incredibly compelling/interesting/chilling/scary/conflicted a character especially with interactions with the protagonist Coming from Fata Morgana I had interesting character interactions and mysteries way earlier into the game. I did get chills from the scene where they show the painting though. I wish Witch on The Holy Night was translated and officially released in the west. The audiovisual presentation is so far ahead of any VN I've played so far. Hell, even doki doki is quite a bit ahead of most VNs I've played from an audiovisual standpoint even though it's just running on Ren'py I honestly probably would have given up on the medium if I didn't have additional wiimotes lying around. Playing VNs while lying on a comfortable chair and casually pressing a button to advance regardless where you've decided to twist your arm to saves a lot of frustration.
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Nov 27, 2018 00:15
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Yeah Umineko got better towards the end of EP1. Not extremely delighted at EP2 seemingly having bunch of slice of life stuff in the beginning though. I almost wish any solution will have supernatural and non-supernatural parts to it. My itch is that someone is using Beatrice or w/e as a cover and faking it out and everything that happens is not related to supernatural but something is/will be. There's something to be said about a story that takes the reader in for a ride to make them believe the story has occult/supernatural elements to it with the protagonist being strongly opposed of that being true and seemingly a strong theme of making the protagonist believe in elements of supernatural/occult. That could be thought of very covert type of a 4th wall breaking in itself.
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Nov 28, 2018 20:13
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Umineko definitely gets better during episode 2 - Good enough that I wish I could lock myself in a room and just finish it in one go. The relative age of Kanon and Shannon bothers me though, I always hated child characters in VNs. The setting and "meta narrative" isn't making much sense to me though. Is Battler supposed to be listening to whatever "Beatrice" is supposing the events to be? Is he in some sort of weird limbo? If that's the case why isn't he freaked about it? If he's essentially in reality transferring between the meta-narrative and the "narrative", how isn't that alone a proof of some "supernatural" shenanigans unless we assume he's drugged or something? Okay that necessarily doesn't mean Beatrice is necessarily a witch or manifesting supernatural phenomena but, eh. But then again he's way too... conscious to be drugged out of his mind too. Is Battler even alive in the conventional sense right now?  Was any of this explained in anything that I missed? I went through the tea room or w/e before starting on episode 2.
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Dec 4, 2018 23:10
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hepcat posted:I’m a bit ahead of Dessel (very early in Chapter 3), and I have pretty much the same questions he does. (Chapter 2 also completely nuked the theories I’d developed after finishing Chapter 1.) I too made it to very early Chapter 3 before calling it a night today. I know people hate the trend of antagonists having some sort of redemption arc or even having redeeming qualities and I know I'm a sucker for these arcs myself. That being said, Chapter 2's ending made me more okay with the thought of not having any sort of redemption arc and her getting what was coming to her, according to the depiction, image and knowledge we have of her at the end of chapter 2, because it seems too obvious that this might change into some sort of oh woe me tragedy. I'm not counting out the possibility that there is no "one" Beatrice and we're being deceived somehow, making irredeemable qualities of Beatrice a little more shaky. I mean the painting of the "younger?" looking Beatrice strikes me as something different than the classic one in a dress. It weirds me out because it doesn't seem the game/narrative is differentiating between the two even though they're clearly different. Apart from the fact that it seems the one in Kinzo's room has been depicted as being one of her in a more modern attire. Though there is just a slight possibility it could be something as simple as a more updated sprite/image being used or mixed with the old one. The painting with Beatrice wearing a dress looks like it's an older image.
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Dec 5, 2018 03:24
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Finished Umineko episode 3 and started on 4 last night. Well, I'm thankful that any redemption arc didn't take place here as Beatrice's "redemption" this easily would have been a dissapointment. I can't say I expected there to be betrayal, more like Beatrice's change was way too sudden and uncharacteristic and I felt it was badly written. In that respect I'm thankful it was all a ploy. I did get bad vibes pretty instantly when the Golden Land part started though, something had to be wrong in such a cheerful scene. Episode 3 almost seemed to be setting up some sort of boy who cried wolf scenario for some future episode, though it remains to be seen if one will actually be set up. It would have to be pretty tragic and suffering filled for Beatrice to be at all a decent plot, I feel. It seems this episode seems to depict "witches" as full sociopaths without any capacity for empathy. Beatrice seems to still care what Battler thinks of her but I'm still not sure if that's just for the sake of her being to able to continue "her game" or not. EVA Beatrice and her "bunny servants" specifically - not so much her alone (Chiester whatever) pissed me off more than any of Beatrice's sadistic antics. Mostly because I absolutely dislike "extremely powerful evil" beings being depicted as certain type of cutesy. As for the events in episode 3, did "they take place" or were they fully just a ploy by Beatrice? Judging from the beginning of episode 4, it does seem like Eva did "win" the game. However was "EVA Beatrice" an actual thing in these events or a fabrication? More of a fabrication than rest of the fabrication because gently caress we can't judge if anything happening in these episodes is really happening or not. It seemed like the old Beatrice was real and in on the plot. I liked the "battle" scene with Rudolf and Kyrie. I always thought Kyrie's design was somehow weirder than the rest, almost "inquisition-like". I do like her design though. I'm still not convinced she's not somehow a plant, even if she legitimately loves Rudolf (Though her house/family has now been mentioned in Episode 4 which makes that a little less likely as they just seem to be an old prestigious family - unless episode 4 reveals more). It seems Episode 3 was the first episode that had anything to say about Battler's mother which seems to be claiming she was essentially "a seducer" and I feel the fact Battler's mother has not been shown is a large red flag. As is Rosa's husband. Domestic abuse is super lovely and the VN doesn't approach the matter well and Rosa acting the way she does is not excusable but it's still heartbreaking seeing her act "normally"/lovingly towards her daughter between her fits of abuse. Both scenes in the end of episode 2 and beginning of 4 are surprisingly decent in that respect. I hope to see some character progression there, even if it doesn't handle domestic abuse too well. edit: I just remembered: Considering events in episode 3 is Kumasawa just a normal servant or in fact some older Beatrice in disguise? Also I interpreted the riddle's first part to mean Rosa discovering Beatrice and taking her to the ocean and the key residing near the ocean literally where Beatrice's body died, but the resolution in episode 3 seems to counter that? Dessel fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 18:27
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I might be too careful to praise how it's handled because people could take that the wrong way if they've had to deal with it themselves
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Dec 8, 2018 18:36
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I feel like Episode 4 of Umineko was the worst of them all yet. It's still entertaining but I'm quite a bit disappointed. I get there's an unreliable narrator. Whatever shenanigans. I never expected logically to conclude anything from what's happening. But episode 4's 4th wall breaking and just utter anime bullshit got on to my nerves. The entire Krauss vs. Goat scene was basically just cheapening the experience - and so are a few of the characters like Chiesters. I could rant about this entire medium and annoying anime bullshit that cheapens experiences. Sometimes I wish I could read a VN that would kill few of its tropes like having enough text for an abstract of a dissertation and the logical conclusions of it happening inside someone's head in a split second. I don't mind that much. But this episode kind of abandoned its own internal consistencies. I don't mind some stereotypical anime bullshit like all-powerful loli witches as long as the fiction stays within its own narrative logic. I get a lot of my complaints can be explained away with bunch of clever "gotchas" of ridiculous complexity but it doesn't change the experience for the reader. I've now read all the tea rooms/???? and played through episode 1 through 4 but for whatever reason "Read EP1-4" achievement didn't unlock. Might have something to do with the fact I shut the game down improperly during ep4 last night, lost my latest save and skipped through a lot of poo poo from an older save. I've pretty much given up trying to figure anything out. I'll just be there for the ride. It could be something as dumb as the entire thing being some adolescent abused girl's delusional diary for all I care. Or family of extremely mentally sick people. Beatrice seemed to directly refute my expectation that Beatrice is just Battler's alter ego/split personality or something by saying "I am not you" in red (Though there could be loopholes around that I can easily see). I wonder if the money being sent around will have any meaning. If we entertain thoughts about witches and witch's "domain" it could be construed as somehow establishing borders by most north/east/west/south -most tips of Japan or something. Don't get me wrong, I still like the experience, but eh. The OST is definitely one of the points that keeps me reading. Even though no real instruments are used it's mixed surprisingly well in comparison to anything I remember from Higurashi (which I never finished because I couldn't deal with child protagonists and mind numbingly boring narrative anymore) and it's a joy to listen with both decent headphones and some decent studio monitors. In fact that's still one of my motivations for still buying and finishing the rest of the episodes: So that I can compile a fighting game playlist out of few of the songs without spoiling myself. I can't but help but wonder how some of the characters would sound with good? voice acting. Maybe I'll check the anime once I'm done just to hear that. Not sure if I regret the lack of VA in this VN or not. At least it's quicker to read without any regrets. edit: I'm almost expecting some sort of 4th wall breaking EVA-like ending that's aimed towards trolling the player in some way. I wouldn't actually really mind that. Just want to see the end, no matter how ridiculous it is. There are some narrative oddities like you and the weirdly shifting narrator in some cases where the "I" is being shifted between different characters | v edit: quote:I don't love everything about the voicework but it's generally very good, you should really check out the PS3 patches when you get the chance (I'm actually surprised you weren't already using them)  Dessel fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 20:56
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Yup edit: Judging from the beginning of Umineko episode 5 I don't regret not having played with the patches that much, Beatrice's VA is not as good as I hoped and character art is going for a flatter anime look which is a shame in a few cases. Backgrounds are definitely better. Yeah I realized you can restore the mangagamer/steam sprites. Dessel fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 22:12
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Umineko 5: Aren't Beatrice's lines literally just "..." at that part? Just finished episode 5 and its aftermath. There's a flashback right in the beginning. That certainly was a ride which cost bunch of my sleep. Not going to bother with the rest of the episodes till holidays/lazy weekends because finishing/pausing at a fulfilling note is difficult and apparently episode 6 isn't that great. Maybe I'll post more thoughts later on but the "anime bs" didn't bother me nearly as much as the stuff in episode 4. yes Krauss vs. Goat was way worse than all low points in episode 5 together Also thanks to whoever got tired of staring at my terrible newbie AV, I guess?
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Dec 11, 2018 01:47
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So Umineko episode 5 and its significant aftermath (tea party + ???). Sorry for my increasingly ranty and incoherent posts, feel free to ignore. I'm warming up quite a bit to Beatrice's voice acting, but I did somehow picture it to be slightly higher pitched and a little haughtier. Stupid anime battles were entertaining. Though if you were to deliberately look for loopholes and impossible arguments because stuff kept circling in some weird argumentative/rule circlejerk you'd probably find them. I kind of wanted the piece Battler be afflicted with the burden of having Beatrice under his service and that possibly leading to some moral issues for him, perhaps even mirroring Eva and EVA-Beatrice in some way. Though it seems he might've been already responsible for some horrible poo poo during the episode. I understand that there's at least "the meta/rose garden" + "the game" layers. I know it's intentional but things get quite a bit confusing when you start wondering when/how exactly Battler originally "entered" the game "from the real world". One would easily think it was the original entry at episode 1, but the events have probably been taking place for far longer than episode 1 to 5 judging from the narrative. Battler just doesn't have memories of it. Maybe he "entered" the game when he originally entered the island and it was cordoned off by the typhoon. I understand "fragments" as they've been discussed being "episodes of the game". They're not necessarily one and the same, but "a playthrough" may give birth to one or several fragments. I'm still not sure how temporally and spacially limited/bordered fragments are and if fragments can be of various different spaces, eras and times. I would imagine so. However this VN so far seems to directly allude to fragments taking place during the two day period in Rokkenjima. Fragments seem to be tools to be used to arrive to some greater truth within the narrative. Which doesn't quite make sense from the standpoint of how Episode 5 seems to be about falsifying and coming to a false truth. Unless these fragments can somehow "supernaturally" affect the reality. There's some sort of philosophical question about what is the real truth, perception etc. lying here but I'm not even going to touch it. I'll just say that I'm aware of the nature of the question. Generally speaking it does seem that fragments are "helpful" in constructing "a full truth" by combining new pieces of information that is unique to one or few fragments but seemingly the undeniable truth (Like Battler's parentage or lack there-of). I'm still not convinced about Beatrice. The game is doing an effective job of "Stockholm syndroming" the reader (me) to like her character, and I don't mind that. Even with how episode 5 went, I feel Battler should be afraid and deeply mistrustful of her and of this "romantic" narrative the episode seemed to be going for. I say "romantic" because I'm not sure that's exactly what is meant by the inner "true" narrative of the episode/characters even if a player would want to comfortably assume such a thing. As for Battler's reactions, the guy should be basically horrified of her and probably afflicted by at least a few PTSDs due to the events in the previous games. Even if we assume the very best of Beatrice in human terms by saying that she has to run the games for some greater good or she is not fully in control of running them she still seems like an unrepentant, evil person. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of linking her with the gruesome effects within the games, though. But her reactions to events still show a very twisted nature. I'm assuming that even if "pieces" are somehow limited to the game they still are self-aware. In addition to this the overt torture of Battler in the "game room" by the stakes of purgatory seems something Beatrice is either directly or indirectly responsible for. I'm sure there are other gruesome events that from the observer's point of view assign direct blame to Beatrice. Perhaps it's all an allusion to emotional abuse in a relationship or something. Then there's the entire thing of the game warning about "Battler being too sympathetic", whatever that means. I do still want to see Beatrice bash some arrogant heads in in because geez the Erika character is sure well made to push the player's buttons. I try to be cognizant of the obvious emotional manipulation the game is going for, but I'm not going to lie, Beatrice's lines that were something akin to "Liar... Thank you.. I'm sorry" did have quite a bit of an emotional impact on me. The delivery on the "I'm sorry" was pretty phenomenal from the voice actor. Battler seems to be afflicted by some type of amnesia. He's apparently promised, said, or done something to Beatrice. And him forgetting this has Beatrice willingly embrace death. Episode 5 seems to imply this is some sort of romantic idea but that might be false. Then there's the promise/truth of Battler killing Beatrice. The events so far seem to almost imply this is some kind of promise of euthanasia to free Beatrice from suffering or immortal life. Some romantic could consider it to be a very roundabout way of professing love by sticking together with someone immortal who doesn't want to go through the suffering of loss again. The promise after all doesn't have a promise of time/when connected to it. Stories of immortality and seeing your family and everyone you know dying as you stay alive and young are not exactly unheard of. Ironically Battler denying witches and therefore Beatrice is assigning "good" towards her while simultaneously killing her. Maybe it's an allusion to letting go. The entire nature of magic in this narrative is... peculiar. If we assume it's real, it still seems often handled/limited in a way that nothing supernatural necessarily took place. Which seems to run counter wise to the entire idea of magic in the narrative (but not necessarily?...) All in all it's shrouded in this game of observations and truth which makes the magic approach the definition of "magic tricks" in the real world. The entire island of Rokkenjima with its typhoon that makes its events unobservable from the outside for the duration of two days seems like a macrocosm for each microcosm which are the manifestations of alleged magic that are connected to the murders. As for the Who/Why/How I'm not even going to try.  Maybe I indirectly answered a few of those questions in my post, though.
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Dec 11, 2018 15:24
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:My playthrough of Umineko has grinded almost to a halt in Episode 6. Not necessarily because it's bad, though there are some current plot threads I don't really care for. Particularly everything revolving around these half-beatrices and this magical love battle just aren't doing it for me, and unfortunately they are front and center right now. My opinion of the Featherine stuff pivots between interesting and "I feel like the writer is being very condescending to the reader". I've played a few hours and I... don't surprisingly enough mind the love bullshit so much yet. (I was about to hit Jessica vs. Kyrie before I went to bed). It still manages to expand and clarify on a few things like early on in the episode it's established that pieces are not supposedly capable of independent action, at least outside the game board. Also having two Beatrices is interesting only if to hear the contrast between the voices even though it's presumably the same VA. The fairly rapid scene switching is jarring and makes you want to fast forward to the more interesting bits. I wish I could just see the closed room scenes in a rapid succession. I guess the reader is expected to think the "person" inside the closed room is Battler as established by the intro, but I wonder if there are any twists regarding that or anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing ends up basically being in-universe fanfic in the end, though. I wonder if I should attempt re-reading Higurashi with the ps3 patches once I'm done with Umineko. Loading up my last save it seems I made to the beginning of Kai/Answers arc Shion...private school and...escape? before giving up. I'd probably rapid read through the first "game" though. The amount of slice of life bullshit in Higurashi with no actually exciting BGM or anything is insufferable. I only vaguely remember (at the end of the questions arc stuff about a cave and torture Ironically the thing I appreciate most about Higurashi is finding about the Unesco world heritage site it's heavily based on.
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Dec 12, 2018 13:43
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The original backgrounds for Umineko are obviously what they are due to budget constraints, they're just basically low color bit versions of some actual photographs for the most part. But ironically enough, for me personally it creates a very haunting experience. And this works well for the questions arc for the most part. I would have definitely preferred for them to update the backgrounds for the PS3 version to be higher res versions of those, or anything that's not just generic anime aesthetic, basically. As for the sprites I feel the PS3 sprites go for a flat, less expressive style in comparison to the old ones. Certain anime styles have a bit of a sin of decreasing detail and expression. They're not bad, but I feel like Kyrie's sprite for example suffers heavily. She somehow seems somewhat "sharper" or more "in the know" in the "Pachinko" sprites. PS3 & half body PS3 Pachinko (God I was scared I'd accidentally hit spoilers searching for these).
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Dec 13, 2018 21:30
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Episode 6 of Umineko wasn't that bad to be honest. I don't honestly have much thoughts about it because it's so... open about itself? I guess I should just take the episode at face value, I don't expect them to do a big twists regarding this episode. I do feel like it missed the opportunity for some Beatrice character history and progression, I guess. I expected some sort of living hell of tribulations and trials before she just came and rescued Battler. It's rather sudden for her to just decide to start acting like the Beatrice in the old fragments. I feel like the episode had bunch of wasted potential, all in all. As for the beginning of episode 7 It's trying to drive more and more that nothing supernatural is happening. Still doesn't make sense with regards to the structure of the narrative and various observations we get to have. I expect the entire VN not to have any concrete evidence either way and that's supposed to be the big thing, you can interpret events as magic/supernatural or not. Somehow I'm a bit let down by Episode 6 and 7 in tandem, it makes everything seem so pedestrian and almost boring, in a way. Episode 6 seemed to say that "Beatrice" is somehow just creation of Shannon's unfulfilled desires/love. Episode 7 seems to confirm a lot of smoke and mirrors with regards to Beatrices of different eras and stuff I already expected. Episode 7's structure is also extremely exhausting and rather boring, at least in the beginning. I just finished the "making a friend" part where Gaap appears as Beatrice. As much as I was on initial Battler's side on proving everything is just tricks, somehow the narrative these stories seem to weave are almost disgustingly pedestrian, as if trying to violate the nature of the seemingly magical nature of events in a way that I wish that someone would just blow the lid off and ridicule everyone for trying to explain the events with reason. I'm not saying the stories themselves are bad. It's just weirdly depressing. Maybe the smart thing to say here is that the world is full of boring events and tragedy and the magical observations in the fragments are coping mechanisms for various different people in the story. edit: Yeah that scene didn't do much for me I just gathered it was Bern or some "rule" throwing a wrench into stuff but looks like the ps3 patch made it a little less effective in my honest opinion. I do agree that Will's and Lion's interactions are pretty good. | v Dessel fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 01:40
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dmboogie posted:so, uh, how did you feel about the very last lines of EP6 Am I remembering it right that it was about there being just 17 people on the island? But was that stated in red text? That with the "think about what what Shannon scene means" made me paranoid before falling asleep. I need to check the hints and deaths from previous fragments. I'm pretty sure the human count was 18 at some point? Does that mean time has progressed? Is someone actually somehow two people. Is there a pair of people that are absolutely always dead together making them one? Is there a single scene where Kanon and Shannon interact with others at the same time in the same place? I don't see anything obvious, I just went to bed with some proper  thoughts. Something feels "wrong" now.I'm sorry, I think I'm dumb.
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Dec 15, 2018 13:54
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Umineko episode 7 So I guess I'm supposed to believe that Beatrice is the ""elevated"" form of some servant who is the descendant of Kinzo's, but somehow simultaneously the manifestation of (or that they took) Shannon's love for Battler? By the way, they were 12 in that scene so perhaps I'm cold hearted but I can't exactly take any professions of love at that age seriously. gently caress, all the scenes with George and Shannon at the age of 18/19 had me somewhat rolling me eyes throughout the game even if I think of them as emotionally sweet. Aside from that, the episode was just low-key depressing and muted because how "Clair" was liberated of her "burdens". I might've been sleep deprived at the time but Beatrice showing up to solve the mystery was a little confusing to me. Dunno what to make of that. I still don't know what to make of EP6's closed room mystery, apart from throwing a wild unbased theory that Kanon and Shannon are fictional and maybe Battler murdered everyone in the mansion for...reasons. I wish the game had proper chapter selection so I could check the truth battle from episode 6 so I could summarily dismiss that insanely stupid theory. I did think about Shannon and Kanon being "half" a human/love and that they're manifestations of potential love one of which has to be chosen to be fulfilled or whatever. Also, I'm absolutely not a proponent of polyamory but the absolute definitions of love by the demons/game had me a little bothered because I like to keep an open mind. I'm still sure what to make of Beatrice Castiglioni, daughter and....daughter-daughter? in this episode and if the ages can make sense It's pretty amazing that the Italian puppet state insignia actually fits the story the game is weaving. edit: It's dumb but the fact episode 7 didn't even show Asumu's sprite had me groaning out loud Episode 7 tea partie(s) Coming from EP7 proper:  Well, it's nice to see the Ushiromiya siblings working together with a common end goal in mind. Reminds me a little of my uncles and...  drat, they're making some progress here  Eva chill, guys chill  Uhhh.. Well, that escalated Hey it's Ange again!  Uh, oh, no  I was almost expecting Ange to start a quest for finding her hiding mother to murder the poo poo out of her in the end in case she actually survived. I'm not sure if those events were "real" because that characterization of Kyrie and Rudolf seemed quite a bit too far. Made me proper mad for Ange though. Even if it the events in the end are real an ending where the relationship between Ange and Eva didn't sour would have been almost bittersweet, regardless how lovely she was in the "VIP room". Episode 6 seemed to suggest crime/struggling for passion while episode 7's aftermath seems to suggest crime for selfish desires, an interesting contrast. At this point I don't know how EP8 can satisfactorily end the game since I'm still a little taken aback by "Beatrice-proper" dying way back and learning of her supposed origin and creation. I know those are fairly shallow emotions to have though. Not to mention the status? of Battler, etc. Not too enthusiastic that EP7 tea room is suggesting that EP8 is about Battler? telling a happy story to child-Ange. On the other hand Bernkastel saying in red that she (loophole here) would not tell a story with a happy ending doesn't really have me that intrigued either. I feel like the episode would need to make some sort of crazy twist to change the perspective or something to make it a worthwhile finale. Otherwise I'd almost expect a stereotypical "here we go into another truth battle in infinite recursions because that's what these two like to do" -ending, or something. Dessel fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 21:50
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Massive spoilers to Umineko all over in this post:Nate RFB posted:(...)(this is strongly implied to be because George kept Battler's letters from reaching Shannon)(...) Yeah I wasn't capable of "vocalizing" my thoughts but I had an inkling the situation was as you described in your full post. As for the part I directly quoted  It's also beside the point but all of these relationships basically mean romantic involvement of someone who's essentially an aunt/uncle/whatever to the romantic interest which is a whole another thing. Nate RFB posted:E: Regarding Ange and Eva's relationship and why it is the way it is in EP3, there actually is an side material (The Witches' Tanabata, I believe) where Bernkastel intentionally poisons their relationship. There are actually a whole bunch of relevant and not-so-relevant side material TIPS like that that are unfortunately not immediately available in the games proper, and are either only available in loosely collected translations and side fandiscs. Neat to know, although probably incredibly depressing material to consume. I'm sure the boat ride to Rokkenjima in Episode 8 will result in lighthearted fun this time around, though  edit: as for the beginning of Episode 8 I'm incredibly weirded and creeped out by Ange (piece?) having the cognition of that yes she is Ange of 12 years in the future at least in the beginning but having the mind and body of a 6-year-old both in the beginning and right at the game's start.... Also the episode literally starts with a shackle sound in the intro screen. Dessel fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 22:47
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Umineko Episode 8 What the gently caress I thought this was supposed to be a kinetic novel. Do these quiz decisions matter? edit: a canon 6-year-old Ange is smarter than I Dessel fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 19:19
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I'll need to post more thoughts about it after finishing but in Umineko episode 8 argument about a murder having happened outside the island to define a culprit is a huge asspull the more I think about it. It probably violates the rule about establishing facts within the story itself or something.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:18
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Don't skip Fata Morgana
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Dec 18, 2018 13:24
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Talking of House of Fata Morgana's OST the soundtracks replace a few in-game songs with others. This is extremely egregious with the track called Desolation, and I nearly went insane trying to find it. (I don't see super obvious spoilers in the playlist right away but might want to be careful if you care) in-game track Soundtrack version I'm not a music buff at all but I especially like how the original version is recorded in a way that you can actually hear "mechanics of piano" in the song. Good listen with decent headphones or proper speakers in a quiet environment. The soundtrack version completely lacks the emotion the in-game one has. Dessel fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 18:10
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I finally finished Umineko last night. That was a ride. As a contrast to Fata Morgana which I found to be fairly well paced, I got way more emotional while reading Umineko. Like I was actually properly shedding tears. There's least three overall themes that the VN explores, though that could be just to my interpretation (death of the author and all), some of which are almost too topical for the 2007-2011 release dates. major Umineko spoilers Identity (of various types), mental illness and truth/facts. I do wonder if religion/faith could be considered one of the themes that the story is sneakily commenting on. I'm pretty sure the VN's point was that no one knows what happened on the island. I'm not sure if I'd be thinking that Beatrice/Sayo/Yasu or whatever did any actual murders if it wasn't for someone making that claim on this thread and the fact that Beatrice seems to be blaming herself for them during the magic ending while leaving the island. The supernatural events in the the story are too prominent and on the forefront for me being able to separate them into their neat own box and make the story make sense that way. If we at least consider the character's narrative somewhat reliable in terms of time perception that makes Ange's entire skyscraper scene untenable without a supernatural explanation. Conveniently the definition of magic in-universe makes it impossible for magic to visibly manifest itself to doubters in a non-isolated settings. I didn't really try to complete Episode 8's puzzle without hints, I think I was 3-5 steps "ahead" minimum. The biggest hints for me were the narrative text (exploring it thoroughly in that format was a pain in the rear end) which made Nanjo's statements reliable and the fact there had to be minimum amount of victims for x amount of culprits to make sense. Frankly I had some trouble with Jessica's corpse since it didn't seem to imply there was a corpse, only that it was observed/seen at a glimpse. Now that I think about it I was being dumb. It became pretty obvious for me really early on that there had to be a culprit hiding in the room where Jessica and Krauss were killed, and that the dinner hall had survivors. Overall I enjoyed that the game prompted you to at least think about this case. I could've sworn Bernkastel sounded more emotional/agreeable/empathetic during episode 8 in moments with Featherine. I'm still not sure what to make of the Tohya parts fully since it transitioned in such a weird way to Ange remembering herself and returning, it almost seemed to indicate it was Ange and not Battler, but that doesn't make sense, I guess. I had the strongest goose bumps on opening the book of any VN experience ever, even though I expected it to end with nothing much. Much of the episode 8 had me just thinking "Yeah it was probably some stupid gas explosion from a heater or something that caused the bombs below the island to go off". I'm still not sure 100% sure if I should consider the Ushimoriya family utterly sick and dysfunctional or not. The illusion by Battler really tried to throw shade on that and I don't know if I can trust any of Ange's "resurfaced" memories. Did the left and right have some further hidden meaning than is obvious in the ending? I actually rather liked the "trick" ending, but Erika was creepy during it - Did Ange retain herself during that ending? That <good> made me wonder. It was sadly short though. The magic ending seemed fairly "realistic" before the Fukuin house scene. Which was incredibly dumb but I still bawled my eyes out. I made the mistake of skimming on youtube comments while I was checking the OST out and it's funny how that part of the "fandom" is pushing whatever theory they have as canon like the goats in the narrative itself, almost missing the entire point of a good amount of the story and its spirit. That being said is there any decent analysis on the plot/themes/allusions that I'm likely missing? The OST in general is amazing (and long). I was looking for tracks that caused tension/hype moments but I noticed it is filled with absolutely fantastic slower pieces as well as I went through it. I'm glad that Nate pointed out the existence of the PS3 patches. The voice acting has some pretty good moments and I grew to like Beatrice's VA over the course of the game. Probably my top 3 VN I've read despite some serious pacing issues especially in the beginning. Dessel fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 20:19
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Yeah the theory I saw was Rosatrice all right Also RIP my idea for a Higurashi playthrough with the patch for now, I have an outdated Mangagamer bundle version (came with questions/answers arcs) that I bought in 2013. 5 years and I haven't finished Higurashi  Steam and VNs weren't a thing back then.
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Dec 19, 2018 21:31
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Nate RFB posted:There are three central aspects of the Umineko story and ending that I've more or less compartmentalized as being the crux of the story: I feel like Fata Morgana and Umineko both take advantage of the medium in a way that can't really be achieved by another medium. I might actually prefer Umineko's episodes basically being fragments because it brings the entire metaphysical/meta nature of the episodes into the greater narrative in a somewhat logical fashion without being quite as disconnected as Fata Morgana's narrative (which was cohesive but not quite as interconnected). I actually checked some of the very beginning of the manga last night. The art isn't quite Ryukishi07 sprite bad, at least. Just from a short read it seems to be not the most horrible way of experiencing the content again because you can fit pieces of the mystery together and interpret character's actions/faces visually in a way that can't be done in the VN without further expenses. Talking of fitting things together I watched a youtube clip of Episode 4's ending and only on reviewing did I realize major full Umineko spoilers beyond Episode 4 the actual puncturing "rocks" are an obvious allusion (if not the very same rocks in some weird metaphysical way) as the ones Beatrice was thrown at as a baby.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:59
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food court bailiff posted:Hey I finally am like "into" Umineko Ep4 - Battler just got the blue text, and they're all watching the fourth game back in 1986 on Rokkenjima now. Just a question, I'm not sure it matters much at all, but when was the scene with Ange and Maria's....shade(?) at the boarding school? I figure it must have been between 1986 and 1998 but can't at all remember. It's just taken me so long to slog through the opening of this one for some reason. I don't remember a year or even Ange's age mentioned. Maybe that she's now some amount of years older than Maria was through which you could deduce the approximate year. You might want to look into Parsec as an alternative method for streaming the game to your mac if you suspect Steam's BP is crashing things. It arguably performs better than Steam's in-home streaming too. Edit: I misread you have a mac for some reason. Parsec is good if you have something that can run the client. Dessel fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 21:02
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I'm biased to liking Steins;Gate (duh), but I watched the anime personally first. The most obvious distinction the VN has is its very unique art style with weird satellite rings in character eyes and everything having this weird texture I can only describe as dust shining in the sunlight or something. I also hated Okabe's antics with zeal but I guess I've grown to like the character. Is... White Album /2 actually good? Asking because vndb rates it highly. What's the prerequisite knowledge behind them? I haven't played a single, uhh, "straight" romantic VN in my life which it looks like to be. There doesn't seem to be a reasonable way of obtaining the game legally, sadly. edit: poo poo I can't figure if the VN has a clean all-age version and how much sexual content it has (Fate had one scene) so I guess disregard this? Talking of highly rated VNs "obvious" recommendations would be Fate/Stay and Muv-Luv, with some uhh, caveats, especially with regards to Muv-Luv and I'm not going to be apologetic about the game. Fate/Stay isn't exactly high literature although Nasu sure likes his pretentious overly wordy prose, but none of the anime adaptations have quite captured the feel of the series in my honest opinion, there are legitimate reasons it's rated highly and why it's such a staple. fake edit: It actually seems crazy to me there's no official translation or digital release of F/SN now that I check it. 
Dessel fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 00:12
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This is a weird question but watching Neverland (this season's anime) made me want to finish Higurashi, bad. Sadly I've played ep1-4 years ago and the version I have can't be patched to the ps3/sprites voices. So I'm thinking of buying EP5 and watching the anime to freshen my memory. Is this a horrible idea? Is there a clear point when the anime has handled ep1-4 or does it take liberties/spoil major plot points earlier somehow? The anime doesn't seem that lowly rated. edit: the structure of the Higurashi anime seems to be the same, 26 episodes/season 1 are the questions arc. So the question is does the anime spoil the latter part of the VN badly somehow? Dessel fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 01:38
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Nate RFB posted:Once upon a time maybe, but now I feel that 99% of the VNs that I would actually be interested in are already translated. Mahoutsukai no Yoru is the only one that immediately comes to mind as being a big glaring hole, and even that it's hard to feel upset over given that it's supposedly an incomplete story that T-M is in no rush to finish. I don't personally even care if Mahoutsukai's story is poo poo (I'm not implying you're implying so). It just does things audiovisually I never thought I'd see VNs do and creates some incredible atmosphere. I mean it's technically feasible to take things further without being straight out animation or CGI/3d animation but it's pretty darn impressive. I never imagined I'd be hyped about longwindedly charging a magical bullet. Dessel fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Feb 11, 2019 |
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Feb 11, 2019 03:53
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There are some literal interpretations about about Will's, uh, mythbusting you might want to check after you've finished the game.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:30
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Uhh, so I thought the latest chapter of Higurashi I played was the one that began with up to CH5 spoilers Shion's POV but I have *zero* recollection of the the detective arc and I swear I have a weird recollection of reading VN from Satoshi's POV or meeting him. What's up? Guess I'll play Chapter 4 next... I also took some notes of my reactions throughout revisiting the game with the anime that I may post later. I know it's bad but I'm not going to replay 3+ chapters of the game to refresh my memory when I originally played the old version of the game that can't be fan patched 5 years ago, so using anime for that purpose is fine in my book.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:03
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Playing the fan patched version of Higurashi chapter 4 was worth it. I appreciate the pov being an adult and that the chapter was fairly brief, so the creepy moments were fairly freaquent Sadly I've been spoiled that there is some sort of (complete Higurashi spoilers?) time fuckery involved in the story so figuring out that Rika either is occasionally her "future" self or can see into the future is trivial. continuing chapter 4 spoilers: I'm wondering if Rika saying the citizens of Hinamizawa can't live anywhere else is actually literal somehow. Overall thoughts about revisiting the series via the anime up to chapter 4: - What was Rena actually doing in the garbage dump in the beginning? Seems weird - There's a line about seeing Keeichi for the first time in a long while which makes no sense. Is something up with that? - I think Mion said "it's nice to be young".... But isn't she herself young? - How does Takano know Keeichi's name when they first meet? - Why the hell does Ooishi go into such detail about Tomitake's death to a literal child? - Why is there a need of a person who doesn't believe in curses (according to Ooishi) - What's up with Keeichi's "flu shot"? - There's an overriding theme of Keeichi's actions feeling possessed even though they supposedly make sense. - While the girls seem to have two whatever personalities, the "possessed"/evil version doesn't seem 100% consistently malicious to the pov character so far, which is intriguing in its own right. - Mion's/Reina's reactions and about Keeichi seeming to know more than he should are priceless. - Which leads to me to wonder why the girls are so "focused" on having "a normal friendship" with Keeichi or something. - Why the gently caress is Mion carrying something that looks like a pistol in a holster? - ....There's a Beatrice doll? (I guess this is a more like a reference in Umineko.... And that reminds me to not look at stuff from the lens of how the story was in Umineko, since this is s different piece of work. - Seeing Shion knows how Mion addressed Keeichi must mean they interact with each other. - Takano seems weirdly mischievous/evil on starting the series of event leading them to the forbidden storage room - Did Takano really die? Just a mention of a burned up body. (Umineko approach showing up here) - Similarly to reactions about Keeichi supposedly knowing too much Reina's anger about Ooishi endangering Keeichi are delicious - Did Takano break the fourth wall between routes or something by asking "You still can't remember me?" on first meeting. - Maybe it's the anime's pacing but Keeichi seems to know stuff he shouldn't within a particular route. - Rika using terms like "protective custody" seems weirdly eloquent to me and it seems to be happening outside "creepy possession moments" - Keeichi's mum deconstructing the mystery genre is hilarious coming from Umineko - On that note the anime never showing Keeichi's mum's face and never his dad at all (and the VN never showing sprites I guess?) is disturbing. Wonder if there's any significance to this? - Keeichi seems to be some sort of genius? Does this have larger signifigance? - Maybe the others DID meet up with Keeichi while Keeichi was doing murdering - Some sort of parallel world theory with this and the footsteps? Overall I really like (overall spoilers so far) the weird vibe the VN is going for with the sense that the pov characters are "outsiders" but somehow involved, as if suffering from amnesia. And the fact the evil within the story is not 100% malicious and has some sort of vested interest towards the pov characters. You also get a weird vibe of feeling guilty over something you haven't actually done. Chapter 5 is rather unappealing to me since I can't get into Shion as a POV character. I do notice that the production quality with regards to music has clearly increased. I do hope things pick up from here on. Are the console specific bonus routes worth playing after chapter 5? There seem to be a few that make sense playing after chapter 4. Not going to lie, one of the premises being trying to avoid weird/supernatural shenanigans as Keeichi leading to bad poo poo sounds super appealing.
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Feb 19, 2019 21:53
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voltcatfish posted:Umineko is one wild ride and I guarantee the story will stay with you forever after you've finished. Me, going through the comic in bed to experience the story again before sleep, going "Wait how does this make sense in the first episode"  full Umineko spoilers in every spoiler tag from here on Having the scene with both Kanon and Shannon present after the first set of murders, Shannon dead on the ground and Kanon just casually there but with no real interactions besides supposedly showing a finger towards Shannon's corpse for Hideyoshi while Battler is seemingly witnessing it and ending up having to google for Will's "answers" I guess the argument is Shannon isn't confirmed dead there.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:46
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God damnit Higurashi, EP6 starting with girls in fetishistic gym outfits (I....guess they were still accurate for 80's?...) and another boring club game is the prime example why I hate this medium, includes both fetishization of young girls and lovely pacing. I'm sure the episode gets better but daamn what a bad way to start. EP5 spoilers: I still have a little difficulty coming in terms with Shion's....Mion's?... insanity? I feel like things could've gone fine even with her sister catching her in the hallway. But when she decided to attack her sister and grandma it was over with regards to any sensible resolution.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:46
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No Wave posted:(Umineko chapter 6 spoilers) I still like Eva as a character, when she whispered evil things to Shannon while thinking of herself as an upright person and being all soft with Hideyoshi (she has a kind face in the huge boobs steam release version of the game). I like all the adults besides Kyrie, it's too bad they lose so much of the focus of the narrative after chapter 3 or so. The one upshot is that Krauss becomes a lot more hilarious as a character when you find out how terrible he is with money. full Umineko spoilers I legit had to go back to some videos of episode 7 to remind myself and holy poo poo I almost feel like my mind just blanked out when I originally read this because I feel like I did not quite understand Nanjo's and Genji's role in this poo poo and I did not quite, uhh, appreciate what was basically baby mutilation and following emotional abuse throughout a life. Shis is so, incredibly, grim.  I mean I understood what happened on surface level but it... did not quite hit me even after finishing the gameMaybe I'm just slow on the uptake but the VN is weaved in such a ridiculous manner that you can keep coming back to it and appreciate stuff constantly in a new light. I really need to read the manga and replay the game from start with the patches installed on EP1-4 at some point. And Higurashi update from episode 6, Including Umineko spoilers too, I guess The fact that Satoko is voice acted through the fan patch (well, you'd have an easy time guessing based on the coloured name, I guess) makes it so much simpler to figure out who or whose "shell" Rika is talking to. I think Rika appearing to Rena outside the van was the longest consecutive dialogue I didn't skip voiced dialogue lines even partially for. The fan patch HUGELY enhances any scenes with Rika's "alter ego". I'm hesitant to just call her/it/whatever Bernkastel because I can't believe on its face that there's such a direct connection between the two works. I feel like Oiishi was too willing to believe Rena's ridiculous theories she unearthed from Miyo's (she's basically the old witch whatherface from Umineko isn't she) scrapbooks. I'm not sure if I can digest "friendship is the answer". I'm not sure if I can disregard "the parasites" theory. Rena seems completely insane and in the deep end, but my initial reactions to Keiichi spilling the poo poo out to Mion was that he's a naive fool. I can imagine the "parasites" theory being majorly in the right direction. Hell, "the real" answer might be less believable in a way. I still don't get the eyes though. Does it just imply madness/misstrust towards friends? Why is Rika's "alter ego" so focused on what *seems* to be a happy ending? I need to purge my mind that she's just Bernkastel thanks to playing Umineko first and just take it at...face value to a degree while still staying skeptical. It seems to me that the various routes describe mental illnesses from each of the cast. Including Keeichi's. Coming from Umineko I'm surprised about the lack of absolutely overt ridiculous anime shenanigans and am honestly kind of missing/hoping some sort of ridiculous finale, I guess. But till' now I feel Higurashi is like... slightly more than 1/3 as entertaining as best parts of Umineko. Dessel fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 26, 2019 |
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Feb 26, 2019 03:24
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RIP me I realized they haven't still localized the revamped versions of Higurashi from chapter 7 onwards (and thus no fan patches either). Guess I'll wait (and probably never read them). The old engine and lack of voice acting is just too much for me to return to. Honestly I probably wouldn't recommend the VN unless you can deal with the old engine, its horrible backgrounds and lack of VA these days. I do own the older versions as well because I started originally reading them in that form but got tired of it. Unless someone heavily recommends me to read them despite that? I could deal with Umineko's ch1-4 without even realizing fan patches existed but I'm not sure the translation and story and execution is worth it from chapter 7 onwards. Umineko's music got real good, and while Higurashi has shown some signs of improvement is is nowhere near there yet. Dessel fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Feb 27, 2019 |
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Feb 26, 2019 23:46
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Random thought about Umineko: Did Jessica's ashtma end up having any significance? It seems too random but descriptive of a detail for it to have no meaning. I didn't notice any personally. Edit v: Oh yeah I recall that now Dessel fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 6, 2019 |
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Mar 6, 2019 13:21
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Two things I dislike about Japanese VNs that seem to be the case due to them being part of "the larger anime culture": - lovely editing. Though sometimes I wonder if you essentially Stockholm syndrome yourself into liking a piece of work over the course of tens of hours. - Anime bullshit. Specifically character ages/depictions. Not necessarily protagonist being chosen one or whatever. Look, I'd like to say Muv-Luv is a great piece of work but there are so many lovely disclaimers you need to throw about : major Muv-Luv spoilers ahead 1. Hilariously uneven gender ratio in the story 2. Disgusting "pilot" bodysuits/outfits 3. literal children fighting aliens for whatever shoehorned reasons One of the major reasons I actually like Steins;Gate is that even with his stupid chuuni personality Okabe (And Daru) actually go to college so it isn't your dumb high school hijinks yet again
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Apr 5, 2019 23:15
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Feels Villeneuve posted:(all posts about Umineko in the recent past) Please keep posting. It's fascinating to see someone smarter than I/person with apparent experience of the mystery genre going through the VN. I didn't fully give up on trying to solve the mystery but it felt pretty much like trudging through a swamp to try and find a logical conclusion. Once you've finished the entire thing and have understood all the underlying stuff I would suggest you to go back to your posting history in the thread.
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Apr 9, 2019 15:39
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