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I finished Umineko recently. Full disclosure, I got to chapter 4 and was so frustrated with how slowly things were being revealed that I gave up, and then at work I ended up looking up some spoilers. A few months later it turned out I was 15 minutes away from the "Kinzo is dead in this and every story" reveal.... whoops. Anyways I thought the story was unbelievably inventive. I liked so much of it I just wish the first few chapters werent quite so repetitive. Like 1-4 have the best parts (troll beatrice) but wow there's repetition. Most of the magic after chapter 3 just feels like a waste of time and dear god there's a lot of it. (before chapter 3 it's great, Rosa goats is probably the best scene in the whole thing though I also liked executioner Erika) Chapters 5 and 6 were carried by Erika being a great antagonist and 7/8 werent all that interesting to me but I knew spoilers so I can't judge them fairly. I was surprised how little reference there was to Sayo being a castrated boy compared to how much Ryukishi has confirmed it in interviews. It takes Sayo from sad to completely and hopelessly hosed from birth. The character who I just can't forgive by the end is Genji. You really get the sense that the only reason he saved Sayo and gave her this lovely servant life from age 8 was so that Kinzo could have his catharsis some day. It's pretty sick. We saw how well Sayo reacted to the tiniest bit of parenting that Kumasawa gave her and Genji just did gently caress all while knowing everything for 19 years. I would prefer a version with tighter editing but this story is pretty unreal and unique, there is seriously nothing like this. Also I really enjoyed the trick ending. No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 20:20
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 07:09 |
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I wasn't smart enough to know what the hell was going on in 2 but it was a great episode. Everything was so hype - Kanon pulling his blade out, the goat spiderweb incident, and musou rosa. I read about Ryukiji's reaction and he was upset that people weren't trying to solve the murders. Personally? I'm not a big mystery person, I like complicated psychological plots and winnable games like in Fukumoto mangas but doing the actual grindy work of making a yarn board isnt something I enjoy. I'll just enjoy what's shown to me. But Ryukiji really, really wanted the readers to care about solving the murders. Like we still got a unique cool thing at the end of the day, I just don't see why he cared so much whether people tried to solve the murders or not. Then in chapter 8 Ange gets lectured that she shouldn't care about the truth! No fair. I mostly just liked watching Battler and Beatrice going at it, especially when Beatrice wins. Heck that's what everyone remembers about the story even though it takes up a surprisingly small amount of screen time. It's almost unreasonable to come to the conclusion that Sayo is a castrated male given that "can't make love" would more simply refer to being cousins with BGJ, the only people in her universe. But once you see it spelled out in the manga yeah it really does a whole lot for the characterization... shame there's one ambiguous line in the 2 million words of umineko that references it. No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 21:11
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(Umineko chapter 6 spoilers) I still like Eva as a character, when she whispered evil things to Shannon while thinking of herself as an upright person and being all soft with Hideyoshi (she has a kind face in the huge boobs steam release version of the game). I like all the adults besides Kyrie, it's too bad they lose so much of the focus of the narrative after chapter 3 or so. The one upshot is that Krauss becomes a lot more hilarious as a character when you find out how terrible he is with money.Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I'm on Umineko Episode 8 now. Nothing is happening. This is like, a silly joke game where everyone is happy. Seems like this all set up to teach Ange a "lesson" which I hate. She has been right the entire time, and continues right here in her frustration over not being shown what really happened. And I bet some bullshit sob story is going to come out about Eva that will make her look better and make Ange feel bad about not liking her. I already hate it. I will say that seeing a silly and happy Kinzo is pretty fun.
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Feb 26, 2019 01:56
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If you look for the manga section called "confession of the golden witch" in volume 8 (somewhere in chapter 24) it spells out everything (full spoilers) Ryukishi was concerned would get censored out of the game w/r/t Sayo's gender. Somehow I blame Nanjo less just because he wasn't sleeping in the house next door and it would be easy for him to just feel like he was doing his role as a doctor (I'm willing to believe sayo's genitals were somehow destroyed in the fall), though he's also hilariously in on everything in almost every murder game (Will calling him out was funny).
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Feb 26, 2019 03:56
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I'm new to this thread so this may have been posted. For any umineko readers: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddJHCUmIC8M
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Feb 27, 2019 17:32
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I bet they wouldn't localise it now. The first one was released in 2001 which was ages ago, the only thing people knew about Japan was Toyota and Benihana. Anime was still being watched on VHS tapes.
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Mar 3, 2019 21:17
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Yakiniku Teishoku posted:I mean, it’s not really from nowhere. The overall themes of the work are basically about some things being more important than objective fact, & how some truths can be more important than others. It’s not so much “knowing truths is bad” as it is, this specific truth will make it impossible for her to live with the knowledge. In that vein, while the whole party they set up in ep 8 obviously never happened, it’s a representation/reminder of the truth that her family did really love her and they all had good parts of them even if they committed horrific acts. It’s not a statement that “denial is cool” but about not torturing yourself with only the dark bits of the past I guess? I can imagine a lot of people would want to know the truth even if it kills them, but like you said, that’s not necessarily a good thing. If you read it cynically you can see all the magic as an escape from reality but I personally feel like it’s always been talking about a different kind of truth. Emotional truth? No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 00:48
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They're proof that he saw through each one. There's a hint in each one that should make the crime solvable. The one I remember was something about a lock of illusions, which was about ep2 the chapel murders, which gives you the hint that the door was never locked which lets you figure everything out from there (rosa must be an accomplice because she pretended it was locked, etc etc). I never bothered going through them all because i didnt really care but the hints shpuld really help anyone figure most of them out (and in story terms was an economical way of having will communicate that he solved everything). As for Yasu's motivation, it was stranger than that. She was trying to perform magic because she couldnt choose between battler and george. No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 15:25
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I never considered that Episode 7 scene like that either, that's interesting. Although (Umineko) I don't think I really caught on to what was actually going on there. That doll was a real person right?I guess it doesn't really matter much either way.. Regardless of which other servants were in on it I am certain Gohda is innocent.
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Mar 27, 2019 13:42
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(Umineko spoilers) would sayo have literally rolled dice to determine how she'd kill everyone? Or was she just going to see if people would start killing each other and roll with it from there? Something that I was mislead on big time is that for the first four chapters everything that happens pre-typhoon is identical and theoretically the only thing that changes what happens are the actions of Sayo (and who she approaches to be an accomplice etc). I don't remember any discussion on how she'd choose to do it.
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Apr 1, 2019 22:31
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The editing is for sure atrocious. You will probably get really, really frustrated with it at some point in chapter 3 (I sure did). The biggest slog imo is the first half of chapter 4 but then it's smoother.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:32
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I loved that scene. Chapter 2 is my favorite.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:47
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Be Depressive posted:Do you all read Western visual novels? Personally I am bored the overpoliticization of everything and most of the projects I see have MESSAGE all over them, not stories which attach you to characters and draw you in with humor and cuteseyness then break your heart. Are there good ones? The length I think is important because I think VN fans like getting attached to characters and having a long time to do it (their length makes the way the stories play out feel more like video games than audiobooks). They don't have to be as ridiculously long as they often end up being, people certainly got attached to the characters in DDLC in a few hours. The telltale games were themselves (temporarily) popular western visual novels and there are for sure people who would be interested in the format who are put off by the social suicide flavor of anime. You still have to tell a story lots of people want to hear and putting pleasant romance stuff in like Stein;s Gate is an easy way to do it, the same is true in western young adult fiction and western fiction in general.
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Apr 4, 2019 16:02
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Be Depressive posted:Actually the goal is to make a game that’s entirely about things happening, thus has no reason to delve into the opinions and personal lives of most characters. If you have a great story you want to tell, by all means try it. But long-format stuff generally exists to spend more time getting to know characters better, not to just read two million words of things happening.
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Apr 5, 2019 03:50
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You'll never make something everyone likes! I personally like humor, the sense that you have no idea what will happen, a big mystery with a series of smaller mysteries that are resolved throughout the narrative, extreme plot twists, and a pleasant sense of repetition to make the narrative comfortable despite the craziness. If there's a romantic angle I want the obvious best fit for the main character, because it feels rewarding to be right. If there's a villain I want to like them. But what I like more than anything are disgusting genius characters like Nagito (DR2) and Erika (Umineko). You'll get different answers from everyone and you can't even trust that these answers are accurate. If you ask any writer for advice, they'll tell you to read more, not to ask your readers' opinions.
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Apr 5, 2019 04:57
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i more or less locked myself up over the weekend and binged it, because i'm the type of loser who does that with VNs lmao Knowing that bit about Ryukiji working as a welfare officer makes so much sense, it explains why there is so drat much maria content
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Apr 8, 2019 22:33
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Be Depressive posted:Huh. I got the Steins;Gate ending where I hooked up with Mayuri and we didn’t bother saving Kurisu and I know it’s not the TRUE ending, but I like it. Everything is returned to the status quo at the start of the game, and you never find out wtf that professor was going on about.
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Apr 9, 2019 02:03
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It's totally arbitrary yeah do cheat and don't try to figure it out. Also fast mode is really fast, you can unlock the true ending in twenty minutes or so.
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Apr 9, 2019 02:12
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But like... Stein;s Gate's story is just a series of things that happen without the true ending. If you're curious what other people like about it a huge part is the true ending, and it's very quick to get with skip mode on (it plays the text at 100x speed until you get the opportunity for some interaction). I wouldn't normally bother someone about this except you said you were interested in writing a VN so I think it's kind of something you should see.
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Apr 9, 2019 16:26
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Basically the entirety of stein;s gate is about (all ending spoilers) Okabe falling in love with Kurisu, and in the true ending he loves her enough to spend 20 years coming up with a plan to save her. The narrative does tons of things - having her put on the lab coat no one else would wear, your "fake date", her being the only person Okabe can be honest with - to make this happen. It's not surprising Kurisu is possibly the biggest waifubait character ever when that's what the whole story is about. No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 9, 2019 |
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Apr 9, 2019 16:50
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You're very patient about reasoning things out between chapters. I'm just lazy and figure anything I don't feel certain about will be resolved anyways eventually and my brain shuts down.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:11
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The way Krauss' character develops is one of my favorites. Chapter 5 was actually laugh out loud for me because his just being a dumbass explained so much.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:08
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Oh poo poo that's the danganronpa guy's new thing. I can buy it and get back to you if you want to wait that long.
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Apr 13, 2019 18:51
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Oh never mind. I'll leave it to someone else then.
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Apr 13, 2019 18:55
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A lot of e6 is about fictional beatrice as an entity separate from sayo as beatrice which is the least interesting thing in the series to me. Erika's end is one of my favorite parts of the series though so while E6 isnt perfect it has some great silly drama. The structure of how it starts with the creepy locked room then get back there was cool too.
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Apr 18, 2019 17:08
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Yeah I got sick of George Shannon scenes by the start of episode 2. I just did not enjoy watching it like at all. Watching Kanon rationalize why his relationship with Jessica is important and worth fighting for when it is stupid and dumb was even worse honestly. There's a pretty funny reference to how unpopular George was with readers in episode 8.
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Apr 18, 2019 21:11
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I'm going to start higurashi when they're all out. These are the VNs i've read with how much i liked them: DR1 (*****) DR2 (****) DR3 (**** 1/2) Muv Luvs (steam version) (*****) Umineko (****) Steins Gate (*** 1/2) (I liked them all quite a bit, SG mostly was lower because it had a lot of the same beats as ML but less extreme) Idk if there are that many more i'd be interested in after higurashi. I heard ever17 was good - is it as good as these? And where can I get it?
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Apr 23, 2019 18:12
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Colorspray posted:I wanted to check Ever17 too but I'm lazy and from my understanding seems to require a bit of
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Apr 23, 2019 18:42
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and patching on a modded psp so...someone please tell me I'm wrong.
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I started zero escape and really didnt take to it. Finished like one route then got bored and read spoilers. I think the ten to fifteen hours of pointless slice of life that happens at the start of a lot of VNs is something I need.
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Apr 23, 2019 19:32
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My issue with zero escape is I didnt immediately care about any of the characters (especially the protagonist) and progressing through the game felt unrelated to the characters' personality. Its like a book where I have to solve a sudoku before I flip the page. I know they're popular and people are into it, maybe I'd read too much Kaiji/Liar Game/Gambling Emperor Zero so the puzzle of death conceit was something that wasnt as novel/engaging as it would be for someone else (I remember being crazy about puzzle of death stories for a long time, until I wasnt)
No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:48
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Do you mean the belly dancer, or the guy who kept calling her a granny? That's the only dialogue that stuck with me.
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Apr 23, 2019 20:29
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Best VN endings I've read are DR3 and S;G. I dont think of VNs having bad endings as a rule though, I've liked most of them tbh.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 21:03
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I finished Fata Morgana after being recommended it last week here. (full spoilers obviously) I thought it was super short when I was already at the fifth door 7 hours in or so but ha ha ha ha that's not even halfway through. It was good, especially near the end, but I didn't like how every character became hyper-cognizant of exactly what their faults were. Also felt a little off that in the ending Mell and Nellie get to date each other in their next life, I didn't feel like that was really the point there. Honestly I don't think it will stick with me all that much beyond how disgusting and horrible it was for Morgana to have her arm cut off. The characters' problems just didn't really resonate with me despite how high-effort their suffering was. None of what happened to Michel/Giselle/Morgana during their lives was their fault. It's the end of door 1 that has the most emotionally confusing/interesting part for me, where Mell finds himself chasing his half sister who he was in love with and she thinks they can't be together for dumb reasons and he knows they can't be together for very good reasons and he has no idea what to say or do. The rest was still entertaining but everything just felt like it was laid out a little too bare, where most characters are conflicted but know better (which I think is why the narrative needed a character as hosed up as the swordsman to complicate it) in very simple ways. Either way nice read, and great use of visual novel storytelling mechanics (the torture sequence in door 2's use of sound effects is great, where it makes a squishing sound each time a finger is cut off/broken and the sound continues even after Yukimasa is done with every finger). Most of this post might come off as critical but I'm only trying to understand why it's not one of my absolute favorites when it's very well done, it's well worth reading. No Wave fucked around with this message at 14:45 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 14:37
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In FM I'm guessing it was intentional that unlikable/villain characters like Nellie and Maria (though I was pretty sympathetic to Nellie even in door 1 tbh) were the nicest people in the world in year 1k and Pauline, a super nice character in door 2 was UNBEARABLE in year 1k. Mell only comes off at all badly in 1k because Morgana was so nice to him so he owes her more, but I didnt see him as a bad guy and there's a reason Michael goes for him first. Door 3 was a little silly and reminded me a bit of that "makes me crie everytime" meme. Not really a criticism when Michael himself thinks to himself that the white haired girl was a little too much when he meets her (for some reason I really liked that last scene with the sword with her though). I agree that the little we see of 1k Jacopo was really good and I latched onto the same detail - his saying he would have called it off if Morgana wasnt missing her arm. As for intersex vs any other reason for not having genitals, idk i dont really know the difference in this case. I dont see it as especially progressive because in the ending I'd assumed he gets to have sex with Giselle with his penis. If there's reason to believe he's still missing one i guess I missed it. tbh I've read enough VNs at this point that I can see the devices they're using to sell Giselle (make her attractive, embarrassed about something she did that's not her fault, have some cosmetic problem that doesnt make her less attractive, feel a stranger to everyone but the main character, etc) and she's super likable obviously but its not something that sticks with me especially. maybe i should take a break for a while idk. I thought Morgana was a more memorable character, and I liked her disappointment at how she thought the guy she liked kept coming back as a submissive girl. And how she only ever offers michael her bony skeleton hand to hold. also - was there really not a word for "albino" in any of those time periods???? Somehow a VN with five albino characters in it never used the word. No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:08 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 21:07
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SG appropriately introduces the reader to akihabara/chans/otaku stuff so you dont really need to be very familiar with anything. Its one of the reasons people recommend it as a first VN despite being a harem game.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:13 on May 9, 2019 |
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May 9, 2019 19:05
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He's scum, obviously, but the VN created a situation where he did terrible things in a believable and recognizable way.
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May 9, 2019 23:13
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Ytlaya posted:Mell from Door 1 is far more guilty, since his crime is basically being completely oblivious to why his sister might not be happy about being married off to some random man as a young teen, though even then it's not hard to understand why (as a teen himself) he might be self-centered and not realize it (plus him likely thinking it was "normal"). MegaZeroX posted:I always felt that (Fata Morgana spoilers) Jacobo was the basically a really realistic depiction of a lovely person, as opposed to the cartoon villainy you see in a ton of media. Like, he wasn't the kind of guy that was controlling and lacked trust. He was also unable to really confront his problems whenever they were personal. Brave enough to gently caress over people in power? Sure. Brave enough to face his own personal flaws, or talk about difficult issues? He couldn't. Have a real intimate relationship? He was too guarded. No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:14 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 00:07
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The previous lord is the great-great-great-great-grandfather of Aimee.
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May 10, 2019 00:35
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How insane will it drive me to start Higurashi when chapter 8 is ages away?
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May 20, 2019 18:05
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Door 3 and 4 are 100% the low point of the game. Door 4 is quick so power through it!
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May 29, 2019 23:04
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