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First of all, sorry if there is a thread or megathread where this should go in. I could not find it. If you could point me in a direction I will duly take it there. I am a (regional) airline pilot in the USA. I need a degree to be competitive in the job market to find a better job flying for a mainline airline. I could use my licenses to get credit for an Aeronautical Science degree, and while this would probably be the cheapest route to get a diploma, I would learn NOTHING useful. I am already an airline pilot, I would not acquire any useful skills from it. If I am gonna blow thousands of dollars getting a degree, I wanna do it in something that will allow me to maybe have a side job, or if I one day I can't fly for a living anymore, I could fall back into something. Other skills I have is that I am a trained EMT-P, but I don't ever want to work as a paramedic. So far I am leaning towards Computer Science. I have met a few pilots who code on the side and make good supplemental money. I am aware that there are coding academies out there that would lead me to a job and be much cheaper than a bachelors degree, but remember, I need the stupid diploma on my resume. The major airlines do not care what I have a degree on, as long as its a four year degree. Any advice into what online schools and programs I should look into? I understand that most online schools are expensive rackets, but as long as they give me a valid diploma and I learn a useful skill, thats what I need. If it matters, I will be living in Atlanta starting in May.
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Mar 15, 2015 18:29
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Computer Science sounds good to me. If you can build things using some widely-used tools, then you can definitely find a job if you want to change careers later. The computer science degree will (1) help you understand how computers work, what happens when your code runs, and how to think about programming and (2) probably help you stand out as the field fills up with people who don't have degrees but learned to program online or through a bootcamp.
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Mar 15, 2015 18:53
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Safe and Secure! posted:Computer Science sounds good to me. If you can build things using some widely-used tools, then you can definitely find a job if you want to change careers later. The computer science degree will (1) help you understand how computers work, what happens when your code runs, and how to think about programming and (2) probably help you stand out as the field fills up with people who don't have degrees but learned to program online or through a bootcamp. Awesome. Yes, thats why I am leaning in that direction. Any suggestions as far as online schools? It seems like the price difference between in-state or out-of-state can be quite big ($215.55 per credit hour in-state, and $721.10 out-of-state at Florida State University). So I guess I should look for something in Georgia, since thats where I will be living?
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Mar 15, 2015 18:56
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Sorry, I don't really know much about the financial side of things. Personally, I'd lean strongly toward the in-state tuition, but that's just because I don't think I could spend 3x as much on something so expensive. As someone who went to a Florida school, I can say that if you're considering public Florida schools without needing to be in a particular area, UCF has always stood out to me as having the best CS program and I've heard bad things about UNF. E: Also, FAU stands for "Find Another University", according to the people who transferred from their CS program to my CS program, so I'd avoid that one, too. EE: I don't know of any reputable online schools, but I've never actually looked. Safe and Secure! fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 19:01
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Thanks  I'm looking for schools in Georgia, and it seems that the most affordable online school for CS is there, Middle Georgia State College. $18,479 is not bad at all.http://www.geteducated.com/online-college-ratings-and-rankings/best-buy-lists/online-it-bachelor-degree-best-affordable-online-degrees I will do my research but any input from anyone else is greatly appreciated.
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Mar 15, 2015 19:07
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Safe and Secure! posted:Sorry, I don't really know much about the financial side of things. Personally, I'd lean strongly toward the in-state tuition, but that's just because I don't think I could spend 3x as much on something so expensive. Arizona State offers a number of online undergrad degrees under the same school. They don't offer a CS degree, but they do offer a degree in Software Engineering.
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Mar 15, 2015 19:35
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Make sure you can actually get in state tuition. Some states you need to live there longer than 6 months or even a year before it counts as you living there. Others as long as you have an apartment or something will give it to you right away. There's usually an appeal process if you think you should get it but don't automatically.
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Mar 15, 2015 19:37
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Which is preferable for my situation, Computer Science or Software Engineering? As far as Middle State Georgia for Computer Science, seems there is no difference in price for online courses as far as being a resident. Its the cheapest school I can find ($18k) I am looking at ASU but I can't find much information as to how much the entire Software Engineering course would cost. Credit hours are $518 so it would be way more. I am willing to pay more if I will receive a better education, but only to a certain point (I would like to keep this under $30k) -EDIT- I just got called by an ASU counselor. Their SE program is focused on web development, and is quite pricey at $513/hr total 120 hours. And it seems it would take the full four years to finish. I'm not sure having a big name university degree is worth all that or if I should go for the cheap $18,000 degrees. Animal fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 19:54
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ASU is almost a high cost degree mill at this point. I would go for the cheaper local option. I've never known CS to be a field that university name recognition matters for anything, anyway.
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Mar 15, 2015 20:53
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Animal posted:Which is preferable for my situation, Computer Science or Software Engineering? The IT degree at Middle State Georgia looks to be structured more like a Software Engineering degree than a CS degree, so in your case you're probably looking for a Software Engineering degree. Computer Science programs tend to have an emphasis on computing history and theory, on top of teaching practical application (actually writing software). They're useful for people who want a really solid understanding of the whole ecosystem and those who want to go into teaching (or at least get a Master's degree for government work). Software Engineering degrees usually focus on the software writing part. Those work well for people who just want to know how to write code. That's kind of a broad over-generalization and doesn't apply to every school, but it's a starting point. Of course, stay away from online for-profit CS degrees. And before you pursue any software degree, make sure you're the kind of person who can see it through. If all you need is any piece of paper, the most important thing is for you to pick a degree you can successfully complete. With the job landscape the way it is for programmers, having a degree doesn't really help programmers land jobs anymore. It's getting really easy to self-teach programming, so it's more about the actual skills than the paper there.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:01
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Thanks. In that case, I will go for the cheapest option. Would Middle Georgia be considered a For Profit? I'm pretty much decided that I want to do it in Software Engineering or maybe CS, I just don't know which route to take. I don't want to do something cheap (Middle Georgia) if it will be useless. But I don't want to get into huge debt (Arizona State) if the degree itself is not much use as far as finding work as a programmer. I guess the appeal of getting a diploma from a larger university is that it would be easier to get into a post graduate program later on? Regis University has a computer science program that is ABET accredited. Does that even matter? Its also accelerated and you can do the Masters at the same time. It would be close to $70k though. Animal fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 21:13
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Animal posted:Which is preferable for my situation, Computer Science or Software Engineering? Either is probably fine. There's two main areas of study: theory and practice. Theory is going to include the mathematics behind computing algorithms. Practice is going to focus how to create and manage applications through programming. CS focuses more on theory, SE normally focuses more on practice, but any degree program is going to focus on some of each and how much depends on the school. If you're looking to sit on the degree for 10+ years while you keep being a pilot, the information you'll learning in a traditional CS program will be more transferable to whatever the hot programming practices are a decade from now. If you're looking to do side jobs as soon as you get the degree, SE (especially one focusing on web development) might work better. But, really, either will be fine and you'll learn more of the practical stuff doing work than you will in any degree program, so don't sweat the difference too much. Animal posted:Thanks. In that case, I will go for the cheapest option. Would Middle Georgia be considered a For Profit? No, it's a public state school, though I don't have any knowledge of the quality of their program.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:17
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Thanks. I will call Middle Georgia State tomorrow. $18k, ABET accredited, can't beat that especially considering that no one gives a poo poo where the degree came from either in the aviation industry or the computer industry.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:21
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For whatever it's worth, Middle Georgia's graduation rate is... not impressive.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:26
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Yeah that is definitely worrying. But it could be because its in a lovely part of Georgia and the people who go to the physical location are the typical young dumb kids who smoke weed on the back of a community college. Then drop out after year one. I will definitely find as much info as I can on the online course and hope for the best. -edit- By the way for those who haven't found it, here is the link to their online program: Middle Georgia State: BS in IT. Does ABET Accreditation matter at all other than telling us that its not a scam? Animal fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 21:45
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quote:Computer Science programs tend to have an emphasis on computing history
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Mar 15, 2015 22:18
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If you can make sure that it teaches most of the important CS stuff, then I would lean slightly toward Software Engineering major, OP, just to be safe. The field is rapidly becoming full of new software developers and you don't know if there will be successful lobbying and laws passed to restrict certain jobs to people who have engineering degrees rather than computer science degrees. There are already people who think that should be how things work. At the very least, you would have a path toward calling yourself a "real" engineer one day thanks to your "real" engineering degree, which seems like it could help you stand out above other job-hunters as more people enter the field. But do everything you can to take a real algorithms class, even if you have take the Tim Roughgarden Algorithms class (which is actually *really* good and how I relearned my algorithms knowledge) on Coursera. That stuff is important. Joementum posted:If you're looking to sit on the degree for 10+ years while you keep being a pilot, the information you'll learning in a traditional CS program will be more transferable to whatever the hot programming practices are a decade from now. If you're looking to do side jobs as soon as you get the degree, SE (especially one focusing on web development) might work better. Not really. My school dropped its computer science program in order to start a software engineering program, in anticipation of having the program become accredited. In doing this, they got rid of the class on Algorithms (combined it into the Data Structures class) and turned the class on Computer Architecture into an elective, but added three classes called Software Specifications, Software Testing, and Software Architecture & Design. Other than that, the programs are identical. And I used to complain when I was student, but looking back and also hearing about the standards at other Florida public schools, I think my school provides a pretty solid education. It's certainly not "web development" focused or vocational. Software Engineering programs don't exist to provide a lighter or more vocational or more "practical" education. They exist to get ABET accreditation because that's what the ABET wants and lots of schools want to be able to say they're accredited. Safe and Secure! fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 23:28
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Animal posted:I'm pretty much decided that I want to do it in Software Engineering or maybe CS, I just don't know which route to take. I don't want to do something cheap (Middle Georgia) if it will be useless. But I don't want to get into huge debt (Arizona State) if the degree itself is not much use as far as finding work as a programmer. I guess the appeal of getting a diploma from a larger university is that it would be easier to get into a post graduate program later on? What you need to watch out for is if, say, you get a C++-based degree and then move to a city that's full of web developers. Or if you get a web development degree based around Python and then move to a market that's dominated by Java. You'll find that the programming field is full of very different skill sets. Larger universities are likely to give a bird's eye view of the landscape and try to prepare you for that broader range. But you can find that at small schools, too. Larger universities may have better funding, so theoretically the professors are paid more and the lab equipment is nicer. They may also have access to more/better software and tools (like you might get free access to O'Reilly books online), and they might have a better relationship with lots of potential employers so the job center is more useful. You should look into "non-traditional" student grants and scholarships, too, if you qualify for those. I think my school offered those for first-degree students who were over 25 years old. Animal posted:Regis University has a computer science program that is ABET accredited. Does that even matter? Its also accelerated and you can do the Masters at the same time. It would be close to $70k though. Don't get a Master's degree in CS without a good reason, though. For most jobs out there, it wouldn't help (or worse, it'll over-qualify you for entry-level jobs while under-qualifying you for senior-level jobs), and a lot of employers who do want you to have one will pay for you to get it later. Without having a programming background already, I feel like doing a Master's degree at the same time is setting yourself up for failure. Are you planning to not work while you go to school? My husband worked full time while going to school, and it required a lot of flexibility from his employer, plus a lot of energy drinks. You should not be flying planes while going through a rigorous university program. Cicero posted:What?  But actually being able to compute history would be pretty awesome!What I meant was that the emphasis for my degree was pretty heavy on theory, but there was also a lot of history covered as part of that. I don't know if CS classes still talk about Charles Babbage, the Itanic, where Scheme came from, various tech debates throughout history, or if they even still make people write a project in assembly.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:28
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Safe and Secure! posted:If you can make sure that it teaches most of the important CS stuff, then I would lean slightly toward Software Engineering major, OP, just to be safe. The field is rapidly becoming full of new software developers and you don't know if there will be successful lobbying and laws passed to restrict certain jobs to people who have engineering degrees rather than computer science degrees. There are already people who think that should be how things work. At the very least, you would have a path toward calling yourself a "real" engineer one day thanks to your "real" engineering degree, which seems like it could help you stand out above other job-hunters as more people enter the field. The problem is that the schools that do a straight-up Software Engineer degree are expensive. ASU is $60k. Regis about the same. Middle Georgia is a BS in IT. But its $18k, and ABET accredited. I guess I would go for a BS in IT with a concentration on Software Development? Zanthia posted:Personally, I think the main appeal of getting a diploma from a larger university is that your skills are more likely to be easily transferred to other regions. If you learn programming from a small school with a local focus, there's a good chance their plan is actually tailored to produce coders for local employers. That's not to say you can't get a good education from a small school, though. I have one degree from a well-known private university and another from a small public university no one's ever heard of, and I learned a lot more at the small school. The small school was also 1/4 of the price of the private school. For now, I plan to continue my career in aviation. But I would like to do side work as a software engineer, if possible. I am thinking that the way to do it is to get this degree and then supplement my skills with those free online academy programs. The only reason I am considering the Middle Georgia State school is because its ABET accredited. Otherwise I would have dismissed them for being too small and cheap. Seems too good to be true for $18k when ASU is $60k. What gives? Good point on not biting into more than I can chew. I really want to get this done, but not so much that I will see my quality of life plummet for it.
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Mar 16, 2015 00:01
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Western Governors University $6,070/yr flat rate instead of charging by the credit hour -edit- Never mind, they are not ABET accredited. Animal fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 00:09
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Safe and Secure! posted:I would go with a Software Engineering major, OP, just to be safe. The field is rapidly becoming full of new software developers and you don't know if there will be successful lobbying and laws passed to restrict certain jobs to people who have engineering degrees rather than computer science degrees. There is already a strong push from the ABET in that direction. At the very least, you would have a path toward calling yourself a "real" engineer one day thanks to your "real" engineering degree, which seems like it could help you stand out above other job-hunters as more people enter the field. It seems like Software Engineering versus Computer Science is a long-standing and ambiguous debate. It has been perpetuated by institutions and organizations using the terms with varying meanings. I went through an ABET-accredited CS program and learned all of the important Software Engineering skills (design patterns, etc.) along with the very important CS concepts (algorithms, architecture) which I would argue are still highly required to be a successful software engineer. Frankly, I would also be horrified to see a curriculum that instead spent entire semesters on "Software Specifications" and "Software Testing" which are both things that should be included throughout your education. Long story short, you should be looking at things like what the program actually covers in its curriculum. Whether something is called "Computer Science" or "Software Engineering" really doesn't matter for employers right now as long as you can get a good education from the program. The hardest part is simply going to be balancing classes with your current employment. Something that offers night or online classes might be necessary depending on your scheduling. Good luck!
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Mar 16, 2015 00:26
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Middle Georgia State's program is neither CS or SE. Its a BS in IT. However, it is ABET accredited. Does any of this matter? Its what I am favoring so far because it is so affordable. The only 100% online SE course that is ABET accredited is by Regis and is around $60k. There are more options for CS. I am going to do it 100% online. I have a LOT of idle time at home and in hotels/airports. A normal day of work is three or four flights, followed by 10-20 hours in a hotel, in which I simply read websites or watch Netflix. I am certain that if I put this time to good use I can get a lot done without even having to apply myself too much on my days off.
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Mar 16, 2015 00:33
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Animal posted:For now, I plan to continue my career in aviation. But I would like to do side work as a software engineer, if possible. I am thinking that the way to do it is to get this degree and then supplement my skills with those free online academy programs. I have no personal experience with an accredited IT program versus Software Engineering or CS, but you can compare Computer Science and Information Technology here: http://www.abet.org/cac-criteria-2015-2016/ Computer Science posted:Student Outcomes Information Technology posted:Student Outcomes Software Engineering's criteria is here: http://www.abet.org/eac-criteria-2015-2016/ Software Engineering posted:1. Curriculum Anyway, if you're looking for something that will prepare you for side projects, honestly I'd say just get the cheapest reputable degree you can and then supplement it on your own like you're planning. Side income in software development will probably involve web development and/or mobile apps. Or you could pick an open-source project that you want to contribute to, and then you'll know what kind of development you'd want to spend your time doing. It just doesn't seem like it's worth being too picky about the school unless you think you'd eventually want to work for Google/Twitter/etc., and even then it's more about what you've done with your time than where you got started. You should qualify for some financial aid, too, so the actual price may be different in the end. Or maybe your employer would offer some tuition reimbursement? Unless that'd tip them off that you're looking to get a new job. Animal posted:Middle Georgia State's program is neither CS or SE. Its a BS in IT. However, it is ABET accredited. Does any of this matter? Its what I am favoring so far because it is so affordable. The only 100% online SE course that is ABET accredited is by Regis and is around $60k. There are more options for CS.
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Mar 16, 2015 02:24
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Thanks. Thats good advice. I am beginning think the wisest thing is to get the cheapest reputable education that is accredited, in something that I will be able to grasp (and finish). IT seems less intense than CS or SE. I can get the ABET accredited degree for cheap, supplement it "autodidactically", and then get a masters in CS or SE later on if for some reason I decide to do it as a career.
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Mar 16, 2015 02:54
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Animal posted:Thanks. Thats good advice. I am beginning think the wisest thing is to get the cheapest reputable education that is accredited, in something that I will be able to grasp (and finish). IT seems less intense than CS or SE. I can get the ABET accredited degree for cheap, supplement it "autodidactically", and then get a masters in CS or SE later on if for some reason I decide to do it as a career. Something else to consider: some universities are posting free videos of their courses online, and/or their professors are involved in putting up free content on Coursera. For example, http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/multimedia and http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/#electrical-engineering-and-computer-science both post full classes for anyone to follow. I'm sure a lot of others do, too. You just have to check the course names in that school's program so you know which class to start with. If you're looking at doing all online courses anyway, there's nothing stopping you from spending your spare time on going through free material like that. And you might be able to use that knowledge to test out of basic classes and make a 4-year degree that much cheaper.
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Mar 16, 2015 03:30
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Good advice again. I will see which programs offer the options to test out, so that I can do that whenever possible. The curriculum will probably be just good enough to lay the groundwork that I will be able to understand those courses all the better, and stay motivated.
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Mar 16, 2015 03:44
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I'll take a completely different tack here. Have you considered a degree in aeronautical engineering? Since you already know how a plane works, it'll probably be an easier way for you to get a degree than IT/CS/CE. And it qualifies you for any job that requires a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I guess it depends if you'd rather be in hardware than software.
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Mar 16, 2015 04:52
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Is ABET accreditation really that important for CS? I never really heard about it during my time as a CS major, nor have I ever heard it being discussed as a topic at my two employers since graduation, Amazon and Google. Looking at which colleges are ABET accredited for CS, for example, there are plenty of good schools, but there are also plenty of good schools not listed. I just went through the first page of US News best CS grad schools ranking. Out of 25 schools, looks like only 8 are ABET accredited.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:10
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It may not matter for the big, well known schools. But if I am getting a degree from a small school with little recognition then I want accreditation so that at least I know there is some structure, and not just Bob printing degrees from his storage unit office.swenblack posted:I'll take a completely different tack here. Have you considered a degree in aeronautical engineering? Since you already know how a plane works, it'll probably be an easier way for you to get a degree than IT/CS/CE. And it qualifies you for any job that requires a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I guess it depends if you'd rather be in hardware than software. Most of my coworkers did that and they said it was still a lot of effort and they gained nothing useful other than the piece of paper. Also its quite expensive, even when you get credit for your licenses you are always looking above $30k. Schools know a lot of pilots need their degree so they have built a racket around it. And if you lose your job as a pilot there is little to nothing you can do with an aeronautics degree, without having to go back to school anyways. At least if I do it in IT/CS/SE I will get a new, useful skill out of it that can help me supplement my income, or fall back on if my career takes a nose dive (no pun intended.) i have always been very technically inclined and a computer geek since I was a kid. Thats how I became a pilot, by getting into flight sims on a computer I built myself as a teenager. This path seems logical.
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Mar 16, 2015 14:25
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Are you actually going to code on the side to make money? Is that something you need to do to earn enough money for the lifestyle you want? Because if not... maybe just go for something that's easier and interests you. It sounds like the main reason you're doing this is to advance your career as a pilot, and it doesn't sound like it matters what kind of degree you get. I earn very good money now, and I can't imagine putting myself through a degree program that is as rigorous as computer science (unless I'm wrong in my belief that CS programs are rigorous) unless it was actually going to pay off significantly. I don't think it would be worth my time to code on the side for a little more money. My free time is worth more to me than that. But that's just me. edit: naturally, if you think it's worth it to you, then just ignore this post
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Mar 16, 2015 16:54
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Animal posted:Most of my coworkers did that and they said it was still a lot of effort and they gained nothing useful other than the piece of paper. Also its quite expensive, even when you get credit for your licenses you are always looking above $30k. Schools know a lot of pilots need their degree so they have built a racket around it. And if you lose your job as a pilot there is little to nothing you can do with an aeronautics degree, without having to go back to school anyways.
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Mar 17, 2015 03:25
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A four year degree is split into liberal arts requirements and degree requirements. The cheapest way to get a good degree is to take the liberal arts requirements at a community college and have the credits transferred to a state school. There are scholarships out there for people that kick rear end in community college and transfer to a state school. You need to pick the state school ahead of time and make sure the credits transfer from the community college if you want to take this route. The downside to this approach is that you take easy liberal arts classes for two years, then you take hard degree-specific classes for two years. So some self-study in the first two years will ease that pain some. Regarding computer science vs software engineering, you can learn how to program well by reading books and practicing. Software engineering degrees typically teach you how to program. Computer science is a specialized math degree. You learn enough programming to demonstrate your knowledge of theory the coursework teaches you. CS graduates typically write poor quality code until they either teach themselves or their employer teaches them. In my opinion, its much easier to teach yourself how to program than to teach yourself about discrete finite automata, compiler design, or algorithms. Doing CS means you have to learn good programming practices outside of your coursework, though.
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Mar 23, 2015 03:07
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I assume you have already considered this, but if you haven't I would apply to the FAA ATC job bid below that closes today. https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/398409000
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Mar 31, 2015 16:27
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