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I was playing around making the tightest circles of highway I could and made a crazy bad roundabout.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:18
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Don't leave it like that, you gotta put some traffic on it to show up how bad the AI fucks it up.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:19
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Alkydere posted:I love seeing all the pictures in this thread of people reinventing the wheel when it comes to highways. Overpasses and frontage roads exist for a reason! In particular, those two really close underpass/frontage road intersections just below and to the left of the "Coleridge district" label are going to become a mess.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:21
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TomR posted:I was playing around making the tightest circles of highway I could and made a crazy bad roundabout. I suspect it would be a bit anticlimactic because the cars will never use anything but the outermost lane even if traffic is backed up for miles.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:23
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Chewbot posted:I suspect it would be a bit anticlimactic because the cars will never use anything but the outermost lane even if traffic is backed up for miles. if you raise the inner ring, reverse the one way traffic to run the other direction, connect it to the lower circle with onramps and have 4 roads lead out of it offset to the roads below it you will end up with a mesmerizing multi tier hypnosis roundabout.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:29
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TomR posted:I was playing around making the tightest circles of highway I could and made a crazy bad roundabout. It's evolved!  I'll try and wedge it between some busy town and a highway. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xwfeL6lZrc After I routed all of the traffic from all of the highways trough it but they just took the overpasses and magically didn't get into any accidents even though there was two highways worth of traffic going through one intersection. TomR fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 20:35
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Chewbot posted:I suspect it would be a bit anticlimactic because the cars will never use anything but the outermost lane even if traffic is backed up for miles. 
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Mar 16, 2015 20:45
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sigseven posted:This Swindon Magic Roundabout knock-off says otherwise: Is this on ye olde workshoppe? If not, it should be.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:47
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I feel like an elegant solution to land value would be to have lots that are being built run an imaginary line downhill. Every scenic object ( i.e. high level building, park, tree, etc.) the line passes would slightly increase land value, and every ugly object (i.e. factory, landfill, etc.) the line passes would slightly decrease the value. The line would stop when it hit a building with height larger than the initial elevation, which would model your view being blocked. If the line gets all the way to water you'd have a big boost to land value and the line would stop, modeling a waterfront view. It would also stop if it reached the bottom of the hill. If you had this running every frame it would probably destroy your FPS, so you could limit it to every time a building levels up or intermittently at random. This wouldn't model things like having really pretty natural features far away, but it would encapsulate approximately how view affects land value. It would also create deeper gameplay, as you'd have to zone your buildings so they didn't block the view of the other buildings in order to maximize revenue. You wouldn't be able to see the effect of view on the overlay in advance if you did this, but it probably wouldn't be a big deal. The one downside is that it would only take into account things that are directly downhill of the lot, and not things off to the side. I'd make a mod that did this myself but I have no idea how Unity modding works.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:48
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Penultimatum posted:I feel like an elegant solution to land value would be to have lots that are being built run an imaginary line downhill. Every scenic object ( i.e. high level building, park, tree, etc.) the line passes would slightly increase land value, and every ugly object (i.e. factory, landfill, etc.) the line passes would slightly decrease the value. The line would stop when it hit a building with height larger than the initial elevation, which would model your view being blocked. If the line gets all the way to water you'd have a big boost to land value and the line would stop, modeling a waterfront view. It would also stop if it reached the bottom of the hill. If you had this running every frame it would probably destroy your FPS, so you could limit it to every time a building levels up or intermittently at random. But I want to look outside my window and see factories below the cliff, that'd own. I live near a freight yard and dock and it's so cool to see the dock cranes every time I go to the store.
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Mar 16, 2015 20:51
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sigseven posted:This Swindon Magic Roundabout knock-off says otherwise: Ooh, that is interesting. I wonder what makes them use the inner circle. It's plausible that it finds a shorter path through the middle of the roundabout than going around the outside and prioritizes that. It's big enough that some traffic will find shorter routes along the outside while others are shorter through the middle. I bet it holds up well in high density traffic!
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Mar 16, 2015 21:00
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I wish we had a traffic simulation mode where we could stress test intersections, maybe even generate some metrics from it. So then when people post interchanges on the workshop they'd post their metrics as well and you'd know how the intersection performs.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:04
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Chewbot posted:Ooh, that is interesting. I wonder what makes them use the inner circle. It's plausible that it finds a shorter path through the middle of the roundabout than going around the outside and prioritizes that. It's big enough that some traffic will find shorter routes along the outside while others are shorter through the middle. I bet it holds up well in high density traffic! I haven't studied it exhaustively but traffic in the game seems to prefer a "straightest route" path if there isn't a large empty road to override that rule. I've watched many trucks zig-zag through neighborhoods just because it was nearer to an "as the crow flies" route than some other path I had built for them. Could be what's going on there, if going through the central ring allows for less deviation off that straight line that might be why they choose it.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:04
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xzzy posted:I haven't studied it exhaustively but traffic in the game seems to prefer a "straightest route" path if there isn't a large empty road to override that rule. I've watched many trucks zig-zag through neighborhoods just because it was nearer to an "as the crow flies" route than some other path I had built for them. I've seen the opposite happening too. Huge grid of 2 lane roads with absolutely no traffic on it, and my 6 lane going through town is absolutely jammed, even though in most cases it isn't even the most direct route. I'm sure though it's just calculating the "fastest" route taking into account speed limits of roads and intersections. I wonder though do people ever adjust routes for traffic? No necessarily dynamically but the game understands congestion via the traffic overlay. Do new trips correctly add in the "cost" of those congested tiles to take a faster route?
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Mar 16, 2015 21:08
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Chewbot posted:Ooh, that is interesting. I wonder what makes them use the inner circle. It's plausible that it finds a shorter path through the middle of the roundabout than going around the outside and prioritizes that. It's big enough that some traffic will find shorter routes along the outside while others are shorter through the middle. I bet it holds up well in high density traffic! The inside goes clockwise and the outside goes counterclockwise, so if you want to go clockwise one or two highways you go through the inner roundabout.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:10
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Chewbot posted:Ooh, that is interesting. I wonder what makes them use the inner circle. It's plausible that it finds a shorter path through the middle of the roundabout than going around the outside and prioritizes that. It's big enough that some traffic will find shorter routes along the outside while others are shorter through the middle. I bet it holds up well in high density traffic! A shorter path through the middle is exactly what happens. It is fun to look at, but I don't think it holds up as well as a non-roundabout interchange. (At least, for this particular design of it.) I think we'll need some more advanced road tools for setting right-of-ways and lanes to get it working well. Here's what I replaced it with: 
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Mar 16, 2015 21:11
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Offramps are 1-lane 1-ways. "One way roads" are 2-lane 1-ways. Highways are the highest capacity 1-ways. A lovely solution to traffic build up from offramps is to upgrade them to highways, especially if it leads into an intersection. There are better and more complex solutions to this, though.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:12
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Baronjutter posted:All that said, has anyone dug into how easy it would be to mod transit vehicle capacities? They seem a touch low, both from a gameplay perspective and a "realism" perspective. A city of 60k shouldn't need 6 metro lines running bumper to bumper trains to move people around, nor should a quiet suburban area need a parade of huge tour buses. I guess you could just overwrite them since they're public? quote:public class BusAI : CarAI Weirdly enough, they both have the same capacity?? And MetroTrain inherits from PassengerTrain, so that has the same as well. My c# knowledge is limited though, maybe I'm reading this wrong.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:13
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There is no problem I cannot solve with highway ramps.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:16
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Is there really no way to "peel off" a 2-lane avenue into two separate 1 way roads without an intersection? Or even just merge a one way into just one lane of the 2-way without a stupid intersection? It's nice that the game lets you make overpasses but only being able to merge back with an intersection defeats the point.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:17
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GhostDog posted:I guess you could just overwrite them since they're public? It's probably per train car.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:17
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Count me in as someone else who made the disastrous decision of buying this last week, ensuring I won't do anything worthwhile for the foreseeable future. That said, I've hit two fairly major issues, but reading this thread I didn't see them mentioned. The first is that in one of my cities, commercial demand completely disappeared around the time I hit the milestone for high density zones. I've zoned some high density commercial, a bit of which did get built up at first, but afterwards not a single commercial building appeared. And I kept playing for a long while afterwards, going from ~10,000 people to ~40,000. The lack of commercial demand, and resulting lack of commercial buildings, meant that my industry had trouble finding buyers for their products, although I alleviated that by building more offices for jobs and using cargo rail depots to try to export as much as possible (resulting in my rail connections having the worst traffic of anything on the map, except for roads in front of the cargo depots themselves). Anyone else hit that? The second issue, which is probably worse, is that the game will sometimes get stuck while saving a game. Normally, after clicking save I'm returned to the map, and a busy icon appears in the top right corner of the screen, with "saving" appearing briefly, and then "packaging" for a second or so. But, once in a while, "saving" will stay there forever, and the game will be half frozen, with scrolling the map and a couple of other things still working, but everything else not responding. Trying to quit the game leads to an infinite loading screen. I've tried waiting half an hour, but it seems the only thing I can do is use the task manager to kill the process. This results in a corrupt save file appearing in the list of saved files. sigseven posted:Here's what I replaced it with: Hail Satan.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:19
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sigseven posted:A shorter path through the middle is exactly what happens. It is fun to look at, but I don't think it holds up as well as a non-roundabout interchange. (At least, for this particular design of it.) I think we'll need some more advanced road tools for setting right-of-ways and lanes to get it working well. Crowley from Good Omens would have shed a single tear. 
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Mar 16, 2015 21:20
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Does that interchange even exist IRL. I wonder if you could merge 3 highways at once.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:20
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Mr. Wynand posted:Is there really no way to "peel off" a 2-lane avenue into two separate 1 way roads without an intersection? Or even just merge a one way into just one lane of the 2-way without a stupid intersection? It's nice that the game lets you make overpasses but only being able to merge back with an intersection defeats the point. Yeah that's about the only thing seriously missing from the roads for me. The solution? HORRIBLE ROUNDABOUTS EVERYWHERE. It's clogging up! Maybe there's too many entrances? Urrrrtghh
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Mar 16, 2015 21:20
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@YeOldeButchere: I think CO knows about the save crash bug. I've seen it too, though only once, and we've had other reports of it in this thread. The commercial demand is 100% for sure on the top of their list to investigate/fix. Seems parks take up all your tourists' time, as it stands, so no one wants to go shopping.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:21
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Due to complaints about parks required to upgrade/appease industry, I've made some suitable parks for industrial locales, as you can see here and here.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:25
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TheQat posted:@YeOldeButchere: I think CO knows about the save crash bug. I've seen it too, though only once, and we've had other reports of it in this thread. Ok then, that's definitely good to know. The weird thing about the save issue is that all three times it happened so far is after I've played a good long while without saving. I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but it's certainly annoying.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:25
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zedprime posted:I don't know if we have the same definition of obvious. Because after playing the game it becomes obvious you want as many lanes going into an intersection in a direction as there are coming out. Which the ideal set up takes into account, while the brute force method ignores the idea. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you or the post we're referring to was saying, but it seems to me that if you just have a normal 6-lane road, only the outside lanes get used, even though it causes traffic to be backed up and cars could be taking the middle lanes to bypass turning traffic. However, by inserting a 2 lane road, you force cars into the middle lanes first, which then move to the outside lanes when needing to turn. This is a flaw in the AI, as the proper behavior should be that vehicles utilize the inside lanes (i.e. through-lanes) first and only use turn lanes when necessary, until such time that the through-lanes are congested which will quickly cause congestion on the turn lanes. This would be when your road has reached its actual capacity, where traffic couldn't be improved directly by fixing that particular stretch of road. That's what I mean by improved AI and gaming the system. I get that it's not necessary and I've got some pretty lovely intersections and on/off ramps that magically work, but it would still be nice that roads would operate at maximum capacity without having to resort to weird tricks. One benefit is that a six-lane road actually becomes much more of an improvement over a 4-lane road than the current system, where they both end up using just the outside lanes and so the extra two lanes essentially become wasted (at least, in that particular scenario).
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Mar 16, 2015 21:25
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Protip: Building roundabouts out of highways is the best. It's highways and onramps all the way down.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:27
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Noyemi K posted:Due to complaints about parks required to upgrade/appease industry, I've made some suitable parks for industrial locales, as you can see here and here. Adding these to the OP.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:27
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Noyemi K posted:Due to complaints about parks required to upgrade/appease industry, I've made some suitable parks for industrial locales, as you can see here and here. Oh man, that's great. I hate dropping tree parks in my industrial just so they'll upgrade. Sub'd. Goddammit I can't get over how great the modding is in this game. Hey, identify a tiny problem that the developer will never fix because it's low priority? Don't worry, the community already fixed it. edit: heh, there's quite a few industrial parks on workshop  edit 2: every other industrial park mod I tried seems to have forgotten that you need to make it actually affect land value and are useless. Thanks Noyemi! Chewbot fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 21:29
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What, I like plopping a bouncy castle in an industrial area! 
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Mar 16, 2015 21:31
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Hopefully once things have slowed down we can get a goon approved super pack of addons together.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:32
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What does commercial "want"? Like residential likes low noise, good land value, services etc. Industry likes for its freight and workers to be able to get to it. Offices presumably want worker access and land value. So what of retail shopping? Do they care about "walk-by" customers or do people go out of their way to go shopping anyway? Does it at all help if it's along their commute route even if they are on the bus or driving?SynthOrange posted:Yeah that's about the only thing seriously missing from the roads for me. The solution? HORRIBLE ROUNDABOUTS EVERYWHERE. That sucks. Is this modable, has someone fixed it? Most road mods I see so far are cosmetic. Noyemi K posted:Due to complaints about parks required to upgrade/appease industry, I've made some suitable parks for industrial locales, as you can see here and here. Oh boy oh boy! Who doesn't love playing in the barbed wire! Do you need land value for fancy-pants industry? Is that what? Do people ever "go for lunch" actually? Is it worth zoning a touch of commercial around industrial-town? Also - am disappoint (though not terribly surprised I guess) there isn't mixed zoning  . It probably wont' be easy to mod that poo poo since that's a pretty big underlying assumption.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:37
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suddenlyissoon posted:Also, apparently a laid-off Maxis designer is asking for money to make buildings for the Skylines. This guy's Patreon is already up to $132 per building. For reals, though, I never realized what a crazy amount of work it is just to put one building together for games like this.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:38
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http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409068574 Mod that removes parks from demand calculations.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:39
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Roadie posted:This guy's Patreon is already up to $132 per building. This man is a genius. And yeah this poo poo is time-consuming, I used to model environments, terrain and make lookup tables for SW:tOR and I put in about 25 hours on the Skylines mods I put up on the first page. Good for him making the best of a layoff, I'm gonna give him money.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:45
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I made a few changes and a couple videos. I can get cars to use the inside ring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtZ-krEpk2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb5pu-bFaKk I don't know if it's worth doing though.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:48
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euphronius posted:Hopefully once things have slowed down we can get a goon approved super pack of addons together. I think this is just about as slow as the rate of mods will be for about the next year. This game is is a modding tinderbox, its a complete sandbox with a solid simulation core that rewards meticulous attention to detail, is under $30 and was built with community support in mind. Plus the backpressure of not having a really expansive really good city sim for a while, yeah, this is gonna be one of those "how did I end up with 100 add ons plus lots?! Well theyre all important anyway" games for a long while.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:50
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