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So the left side was drawn about the time I had mostly worked out how to translate a few years of still life drawing into mostly anatomically correct comic style character design, and the right side is I am now substantially better at line work, but still working on it. I've been drawing on the Cintiq for about a year now whenever I can summon both motivation and time, and my still life was always both crap and time consuming, so I think I'm doing pretty well, but I've now hit the point to where I realize I am not as bad as some but still terrible.   Also - the right side is my one-hour daily from last night. The left side probably took me ten hours to sketch out a few months back. So people who think they suck and probably do, it gets better, but only in progressive degrees of "I suck less". Other stuff:  Used last week to explain to someone how I was doing shading.  The original character ref for that character next to a sketch used for something else. Unfortunately throughout almost my entire progression of inking/line work skill buildup so far, I didn't bother saving images. Edit: I'm using Clip Studio Paint EX on a 24" Cintiq Touch HD. Forgot to note. (This is one of those I have money not time hobbies.) windex fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 15:04
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Scribblehatch posted:Is there a gene ubiquitous to the human population that feels repulsed every time an artist or teacher is paid a decent wage? I just want to say for the record that until I started teaching myself how to draw I thought artists were all were lazy assholes. I now know better. Even on things I have mostly down I will sometimes spend an hour redrawing the same thing until it looks right to me. So, the real problem is, most people don't get any form of art education at all anymore and then expect it to be easy because that one kid in middle school who probably spent all of his free time drawing could draw a mean Goku in like 30 seconds so how hard can it be.
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Jun 9, 2015 19:10
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Fyadophobic posted:
The best way to do this that I can think of is to draw/sketch a character from the front view and from the side portrait view in a neutral position. You can verify the anatomy of those views trivially with davinci circles/golden ratio measurements. Since you are working digitally it's also really simple to make some custom rulers to determine the size of each body part relative to the others, etc. Then draw your crazy pose until it looks like the same character when all three views are consulted at once. Effectively, build a reference in your brain for treating your character as a 3d object. This takes a long time (for me, anyway, since I tend to describe my characters with lots of words then struggle to figure out how to apply them to the drawing), but is how I am able to draw anatomy consistently for the same character. The more you repeat this process, the easier it gets, and the more body types you tackle, the easier it becomes to do later with even less initial sketching. Determining the anatomy of something that doesn't exist and has no reference is hard, because human beings have great deviation in shape, size, and proportion. By creating the reference you're answering your own questions, rather than asking for help. Many things can look right, so the most important thing is that it looks like your character. Even if you have a background in figure drawing, once people try to tackle something that only exists as an idea, it typically becomes difficult again. Generally, each major component of the body of a character takes an hour or two for me, at minimum, with the big exception being the head/face, since it's as complicated as drawing the rest of the body, usually. As far as feedback goes, the thing that bothers me most about your image is that the position looks incredibly uncomfortable. The geometry of the left shoulder relative to the back doesn't work for me. It seems impossible for her legs to be crossed and pulled inward and her elbow to be inwards to her knees with her chest on the ground, but the shading on the stomach makes it appear she's on her side, which clashes with the shading on the back. It's better than I would do blind without reference, though.
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Jun 19, 2015 20:50
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Scribblehatch posted:I would be more interested to discuss how I can get my poses to look less stiff and unnatural as Loga said. It is something I wrestle with. Until the other day I was going about the idea of gesture drawing totally wrong. And if he said something you meant, he got it across better. Oh hey invite for constructive commentary let's show them how it's done. You have some actiony drawings and they look pretty good. Let's talk about the others. Drawing a standing character is almost always visually boring, and people doing mundane tasks (pool girls in an earlier photo) is also boring. You can breathe some more life into things by setting up actions in your scene. Symmetry is bad, and theres a lot of it in the four armed girl. When you stand casually, you probably almost never have a completley righted spine, and your hips are probably never completley level, feet straight. She doesn't have legs, which makes this difficult to conceptualize, but reducing symmetry as if she did would help make her look more alive. Use yourself as a guide, pay attention to how you stand, check positions you want to draw for comfort, since people won't generally sit or stand in an uncomfortable way for long. Similarly, with the pool girls scene, drawing one of your girls losing balance removing her pants or something and the others reacting to that would basically introduce more asymmetry and frame a scene with more purpose. The key is, you almost never in life see people in symmetric poses unless they're forcing it. Having your characters interact more also brings them more to life. The pool girls image is well drawn but everybody looks isolated and stiff. You should also probably practice drawing fat people and others with less slender builds. This makes the symmetry thing way more obvious, too. Everybody knows a person that manages to be attractive and not stick thin, identify how that works in your mind, then draw some of those. With that said, your linework is great and I like your backgrounds and color choices a lot. Just breathe more life into the characters. I try to do all these things in my art that sucks but at least it looks pretty alive.
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Jun 20, 2015 11:39
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Troposphere posted:this has been bubbling up for awhile and their response to my original critique was what pushed me to finally lay it out there. it is a subject that is personally important to me as a female artist and it needed to be said. I was discussing this in PM's with Scribblehatch, and I'll explain to you what I explained to him because both of you have a point. Nudity is a thing in art that is practically step 1, because it's anatomy, and anatomy is important. Getting this step down is a big deal for artists. And even doing it for one body shape is a major accomplishment. A lot of people get stuck in a rut here because they get positive feedback and it forms a loop. But... His drawings aren't exactly pornography, and it's not like all he draws are girls sitting spread eagle. But the drawings with nudity lack diversity and focus (meaning, the images seem to be mostly about the nudity and not something else), which is also a thing. I don't think he's intending to be offensive. I don't think you're trolling either. I do think you guys won't see eye to eye on this, and I do think it's a major derail that was spent mostly in anger and not productively. I also hate the lack of diversity in many artists work and the art websites that contain nothing but generic nudity, risque poses, and junk. But, the first thing I draw when designing a character is a semi-clothed figure to get the anatomy laid out. I have seen many people misstep in their personal art journey/curriculum and get stuck drawing naked ladies because it gets them positive feedback and fans. But it doesn't mean that all nudity is porn, or that all male artists that draw female nudity are doing so to objectify women. But, your criticism is valid, and was echoed by two of us in addition to you. So, it was a valid point, made in an confrontational way, people got mad at words on the internet, and now this thread has a whole page of  .If you dropped the confrontational (even on SA...), your point would've been both valid and more difficult to dismiss.
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Jun 20, 2015 14:32
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Still working through my idea on an initial sketch here to set anatomy. But, liking the general direction and I have a pretty good idea of how the finished image is going to look. Plus this thread needs more art, even incomplete art. Note: I usually use some blue pen on a raster layer to scribble my general shapes then go over it in a vector layer with another pen, so both phases are done kind of in tandem. Once she has clothes drawn, and everything adds up, I'll do my third pass and have one layer of complete fluid lines. This is not that.
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Jul 31, 2015 15:18
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Yeah, I agree with pretty much all you said. This is what I call a progress image and whenever I decide I'm done being productive for the night I make one, then stare at it a few times until the problems stand out. Its only annoyingly censored so I can share it with people who do get offended by pixels but manage to give me good feedback anyway. Heres my list of things so far: Lower jaw is off slightly, needs to be moved forward, as does the ear. Her head is pear shaped, in a bad way. Bangs need three dimensions. Lower teeth are ajar, not curved. Right eyebrow too high. Hair is too rounded, needs more squareish feel up top. Hairline needs adjustment downward and slightly out (espeically to her right), forehead is too narrow a bit. Edit: Also.. I'm really anal but have been getting better about just rolling with stuff, so in a lot of ways I'm my own worst critic. I do appreicate critiques, though (and your eye keeps mine calibrated, etc). I'm just happy these days I can get out an initial take I don't feel too bad about sharing, rather than sentencing myself to hours of staring and being angry. Edit 2: Here's the uncensored version with the ruler layer visible (screenshot): http://undertherisingsun.com/junk/drift2uncensoredwithruler.png The reason her head is so broken is because her forehead is caved in (as we both noted). She should be looking down a bit, and the upper blue line above her hairline should be the top of her head. Also, when you see the clothes the boobs being squished and sitting the way they do will make more sense, probably. windex fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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Jul 31, 2015 16:58
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I think the reason we're all here is because the number of chill art communities is non-existent. Or at least, mostly. I've seen some rumblings from others in this/the making comics/the self-taught thread but I hear just as much criticism hurled at the same site(s) so it's hard to tell. Art related, fixed most of my head issues last night, need to bring the hair in closer to the skull but we're getting closer to viable. Note that I change facial expressions on characters constantly while drawing them for my own amusement and am not sold on this one. 
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Aug 5, 2015 05:40
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Mimir posted:-You aren't drawing hands or feet. If your hands suck, draw hands more. This is good feedback. Hands & feet - I usually just kinda work on things in a progression. I usually start with the head or body, do the other, hands, and then feet, since I may tweak the pose quite a bit while thinking. It's not that hands suck, so much, as they're about as much effort as anything else. I also generally have an easy time visualizing contour shapes, and go back and work out finer details with shading, etc. I do usually draw 3d boxes/cylinders when drawing hands, though. Feet, I have some kind of undiscovered fetish for and can draw reasonably well without a lot of thought. Labored lines - The first session on this was about 40 minutes on Friday and last night was about 30, including warm up time (~10m). I usually draw something at this quality level then intend to go over it with finalized lines, because I have very poor fine motor control due to literal brain damage (I had spinal meningitis when I was born). I'm not going to disagree with you, but, things are way better than they used to be. There is no very quick drawing, or handwriting, in general, in my immediate future - but I still try.
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Aug 5, 2015 07:09
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Thats part of why I wait till everything is settled, I've wasted a lot of effort in the past getting them right. This one will be interesting when I get there because my ideas for her hand positions are new to me. I'm also probably going to adjust her arms to a less rigid position. Hands and feet will be visible in the final image, so they're going to be important. Boobs, not so much.
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Aug 5, 2015 11:21
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You aren't wrong. The problem I've always struggled with is that all textbook definitions of progression just lead to failure on my part, always have, and it's incredibly frustrating. I have been taught the processes you guys are describing in person, in books, off youtube, etc, and generally speaking, it saddens me that I never manage to get results that way even if I try to mimic what I'm seeing. What I started doing to make progress was just abandon all of that. The first full character sketch I did this way probably took 60 hours, was mostly crap but helped me set character dimensions, and I had tons of trial and error learning. I've have worked it down quite a bit since then to just a few. The thing that helps me in critique form is closer to the first one, which was mostly pointing out errors, than these last two, because process critiques are very valid for some, but just don't work for me. I drug myself down that path once and abandoned art entirely for like 5 years because of it, and a year and a half ago focused on something I wanted to do that needs art, bought a Cintiq and continue to power through it. I have thousands of throwaways between now and then, but I really think I'm doing much better these days than I've ever done. To put kind of a cap on this thought, one of my artist friends who was more traditionally educated (and has seen me work in person) describes my process as the same methodology you use to form clay into shapes, and thats a pretty good train of thought, but I've been hesitant to talk about it because I don't want other people to latch onto UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE METHOD justifications unless they really have spent years trying and failing and stumbled into their own way. windex fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 06:47
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JuniperCake posted:Teachers/examples/stuff I seemed to have the most issues among my peers, primarily because there was no undo button. When I have to live with a line it's usually a disaster, because the forms of control most readily available to me are grinding the edge of my palm into the surface of the page to brace my hand (which is how all handwriting goes, generally) or moving my entire arm - but with bad tactile control of the pen on the page, e.g. pressure, and otherwise. I basically hold the pen in a continuously fixed death grip like position between three fingers, usually with the end pinned against the crease of my thumb. I know these are mistakes other people make in art, but regardless of time spent, I couldn't overcome it. Working on the Cintiq lets me zoom in/out and retains the ability to move the page in any possible position to line up lines, which helps a lot. I've also greatly improved my wrist control which is more readily available to me than hand/finger control, but once and awhile fails to accomplish what I'm going for. The wrist thing is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do while drawing, but the RSI from work is seemingly lessened by the other repetitive stress of drawing so maybe they're canceling each other out. As far as examples, all that happened when I was still married and living in the midwest US, and I don't have much of anything from that time. What I can tell you is that if you go look at your average cringe-worthy deviantart stuff, mine would've fit in. Whenever I'd work out roughs for a drawing, I'd spend more time erasing than drawing, it seemed, even after I moved to blue pencil sketching and photocopy linework at the suggestion of one of the TA's after the first year - this improved things a bit, in so far as I wasn't handing in pages that had spent a lot of time under an eraser and they were mostly shaded correctly. This was the better stuff, but still had too many straight lines / line segments. I actually failed the first semester, effectively, because I couldn't complete a few (important for grade) drawings in any legible way in time. I repeated that and continued after discussing the problems with the department head, because she could see that I was trying... (I was also married to someone who thought art was dumb and I was dumb. Probably didn't help.) I do throwaways but they're usually not complete works, e.g. anatomy studies (including hands!), one-offs, foliage (trees and other plants are where I did most of my line control grinding to date). And talking about process is okay, I guess, it just doesn't always help me, because it never leads me to an "a-ha" moment. On top of the other history, I've got stacks of books in two languages telling me the same stuff on my shelves, but I have far better luck using those books as a reference for "how do other people represent this" over "how do I do this". Troposphere posted:valid criticism This is why I made the comment about "UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE METHOD justifications". It is an excuse, inasmuch as it is what it is. I still got quite a bit from the education I did get, particularly in how to eye up mistakes, etc. It wasn't all worthless. And, part of the answer to this is the same as the answer below: Mercury Hat posted:Throwing away stuff What I did was I set up a process where I work for 1 hour on whatever I can think of and just chase it as far as I can. It's a far cry from the 60 second examples, but it was productive. During the slow months at work I was doing this every workday, and during the weekends I would just plow through things if I didn't have plans. The thing is, is that once and awhile I kind of have the urge to bring an idea to completion even if I know it'll be painful. There's two reasons for this: 1) Whatever the idea is/was, seemed awesome (actually is, different thing entirely). 2) It's a good way to build more discipline. I expect if I finish the idea in my head this sketch started from it'll probably take another 20 hours of actual work mixed with some reflective periods between work time to nail down all the details for the entire scene, a couple hours to clean up lines, and however long I am willing to invest before being satisfied (or not) in coloring/shading. The real problem is it's past 10pm on Friday in Tokyo, I just got home from work, all week has been worse, and I've had about an hour to draw for the last seven days but lots of time to post on the internet as I wait for my peers and/or customers to do their jobs at work. As is the life of being an engineer in a country with no engineers. I'll do some drawing this weekend.
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Aug 7, 2015 15:28
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Oh yeah, I don't have any photos handy as I'm running errands but I do a lot of airbrush work because I have one I can work the pressure with using a rocker and my thumb. Mostly customizing airsoft guns, but some canvas stuff but not recently. Way easier. Whole arm movements work okay without contact. Sadly the Cintiq airbrush pen is a lot more effort to work.
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Aug 8, 2015 08:27
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Complete idea out, lines are not fancy. There's a handful of errors, I tried to do this one with minimal redraw. Still took most of the day. 
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Aug 15, 2015 19:30
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I use a cintiq and not a tablet, but I use it as a drawing table: I also have a good full back chair. They make ergonomic arms for Laptops that should hold a regular pen tablet at a good drawing table angle.
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Aug 20, 2015 05:34
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Have not been in a good mood for art the last two weeks and have been drawing mostly scrap. With that said, there are two great female digital artists with kickstarters right now for art books (and both are cheap buys, given shipping from Europe and small production runs): loish, http://loish.deviantart.com/ and http://loish.net/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1022149620/the-art-of-loish-a-look-behind-the-scenes Pernille, http://www.pernilleoe.dk/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pernilleoe/blush-the-art-of-pernille-rum I am not related in any way to either artist though I do enjoy their work. I've been trying to diversify my reference, inspirations and ideas shelf away from Japan, and both those books seem like a good fit to me.
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Sep 8, 2015 17:44
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Agreed with Delta Echo. One thing to note if you use your own photos, Sigma makes a line of cameras that store Blue / White, Red, and Green in seperate layers in the raw. It's an exotic, CCD only used by Sigma, requires special software to process images (free, from Sigma), is not cheap, and only produces best results with prime lenses designed explicitly for each camera due to customizations. If you need another lens, you need a new camera. With that said, it could be a huge initial leg up on work like yours. The dp0 ultra wide seems particularly suited. http://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/dp-series/ Note that these cameras are for art, not weddings. A lot of reviews miss the point. (Disclaimer: I do not own one of these but have admired some of the work I have seen done with them.)
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Sep 11, 2015 17:55
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Delta Echo posted:In review, so-called image/photo manipulations posted on this page. In the mirrorless camera thread we are planning some Tokyo street photography trip next week and I am going to make sure to take fancy wide angle art photos and provide my camera raws itt for these guys. I already slap-dashed an Amazon S3 website for this purpose.
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Sep 15, 2015 07:58
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Scribblehatch posted:Edit: Thread seems a bit more inactive than usual. Relevant to thread: I've finally found a wireframe method and figure drawing methodology that actually saves me time but I haven't had time to do more than sketch because it's photography season so I'm making GBS threads up the photography forum. Once rainy season picks up in Japan it'll be drawing time again.
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Mar 11, 2016 06:09
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Scribblehatch posted:This one didn't turn out as intended after the sketch phase. There was a way of coloring it I had in my head that I couldn't bring to hand. I spend a lot more time working on shading and highlights than colors because a well shaded image only needs a couple colors to pop. Similarly, when doing photography if I feel a rut with colors I start doing B&W. If in doubt, drop the colors. The shading on this is great. Bonus thread content: I should probably finish one of the like 200 partially completed things in my clip studio folder. My art sucks less now but work is trying to kill me and photography is less effort for stress relief.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:19
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Colon Semicolon posted:He's not good at drawing women. I think the main problem is that fitting the "rules" manga artists use to draw women that are obviously not men makes it really drat hard in his style, given that all of the faces are masculine. Usually this goes the other way, with all the male characters looking feminine. I have a few art reference books from Japanese artists and every one of them has a passage that effectively says LEARN HOW TO DRAW WOMEN FIRST THEN IF YOU WANT TO DRAW A MAN JUST DRAW AN UGLY WOMAN. Also holy poo poo when I clicked on this thread I didn't realize it was going to be to a 4 page derail about how to draw boobs without insulting anyone. Good work guys.
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Oct 3, 2016 01:17
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Troposphere posted:please do not troll me tobjorns beard breasts are hillariously oversized for a fat man of his stature i am offended, so i got your back yo
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Oct 5, 2016 06:15
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I really like this. But I think I like the initial sketch more because I like the idea she's lit primarily from the right front. Shading it that way would add a ton of depth.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:24
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Scoss posted:This is terrible. I urge you not to think like this unless you want to find yourself completely trapped in a corner. Being able to freehand circles isn't a super critically important skill on its own, but not being able to draw a decent circle or ellipse or straight line or whatever is generally symptomatic of major problems and a lack of practice with drawing in general. Using digital shortcuts to save time if you know you could get the same results on your own by doing it the hard way is fine, but using shortcuts to avoid learning is self-sabotage. I suck at drawing but I can still draw a good freehand circle even if I need to do some warmups first to get my wrist moving. The real other thing not quite captured in the chat here is that being able to draw a perfect circle is not the point of being able to freehand a circle. You need to be able to handle base symmetry when drawing but if you are drawing mirror image objects, where repeatable perfect circles are important to you, you are probably drawing boring poo poo or focusing too much on something that should not be the main focal point of the image. It's more important to be able to draw two close enough to identical circles at different perspectives that won't be compared as identical by anyone ever anyway.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:06
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JuniperCake posted:Kraken, have you seen the self taught artist thread? the first post has lots of links of different exercises and things to try. Could always just try a bunch of techniques and see what sticks. Sometimes just exploring multiple things works better than drilling too hard in one thing at the start imo. Though as others have said, there is nothing wrong with taking a break from studies to do something fun either. Also there's nothing wrong with just fuckin drawing. This is wildly underrated. Just start drawing poo poo that sucks, know it sucks, and keep doing it until it starts to suck less.
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Oct 7, 2016 05:42
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Scribblehatch posted:It can start to feel pretty mindless. Yeah but its not like you live in a box. If you're into art it's for sure you're paying attention to other art and learning from it continuously? Like for me I've spent a ton of time working on fabric fall recently and it wasn't really a problem with shapes I had but in determining appropriate line conservation while preserving fabric fall, and I mostly solved that by looking at other artists draw clothes on YouTube until I had a composite idea of what I wanted then kept refining it. Most of my sketches are design portfolio for something I want to sell one day (though maybe not with my art), so maybe on Sunday I'll draw something unrelated since I haven't contributed to thread recently.
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Oct 7, 2016 09:10
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Elsa posted:Do they have a space to install the onacup in the pelvis, I wonder. True story: I acquired a camera bag by a company named ONA to go with my suit for classy photography time and the 40ish year old male clerk manchild kept laughing as his coworker kept calling it an onabag. It got worse when he realized I understood why he was laughing. Also I like your edits to Scribblehatch's drill but I may have gone the other way with opacity and emulated directional watercolor bleed to show motion.
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Oct 10, 2016 05:43
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This thread is like watching an AOL chatroom full of old men pretending to be teenage girls asking a/s/l for every new join. That is how repetitive it is. At least find new ways to insult each other, you lazy assholes.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:33
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The last panel is perfect. (Great work.)
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Nov 23, 2016 20:55
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Duck Party posted:I made a Youtube tutorial on digital painting showing some techniques I've used in my job background painting for TV animation. This is really great. This genre of art instruction youtube video is also one of my favorites (e.g. watch this cool thing happen while I explain the important bits) for learning from, and highly shareable with people at different levels of art comprehension. Thanks for sharing.
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Mar 17, 2017 20:39
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barge posted:I'm pretty sure you can set up an auto action to show/hide a specific layer in clip studio, then bind it to a key. I think it might only work on a layer with a specific name though which might be kind of a pain unless it's always gonna be "layer 2" or w/e you wanna show/hide. Clip Studio has an entire show/hide draft layer featureset: https://www.clip-studio.com/site/gd_en/csp/startupguide/csp_startup/CSPaint_04/Chapter04_2_2_3.htm
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Oct 30, 2018 17:13
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