World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

«‹›6 »

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Daeren posted:

Rule number one, kids: you have to learn to laugh at the horrible stuff, because there's so much that pretending it doesn't exist isn't gonna work.

What is this?

The World of Darkness is a reflection of our own modern world... and yet... subtly darker. Shadows deeper, nights longer, the howls and whispers from alleys and streets more forlorn. A game of Modern Horrors.

I just played Bloodlines and want to find out more (or, I remember Vampire the Masquerade!).

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines took place in the Classic World of Darkness (or Old World of Darkness). White Wolf shut the lights out on it back in 2004. They then rebooted the franchise into what we now call the World of Darkness (or New World of Darkness). Aside from some similar terminology, the two WODs are completely separate entities and have no connection to each other in terms of narrative, mechanics, tone, or themes.

What's the difference?

The new WOD rules are much more streamlined than the previous system. The Failure rules have changed and the "10-again" rule has been added, in that a "10" indicates a re-roll and the "10" still counts as a success. If another "10" is rolled, this step is repeated until anything but a "10" is rolled. Exceptional Successes are indicated by having five or more successes on the action, and can be regulated by the Storyteller. Dramatic Failures are now only possible on "chance" die rolls; when a dice pool is reduced by penalties to zero or less, a single chance die is rolled. If a 10 is rolled, it is a success (and as before, rerolled), if the result is less than 10 but not 1, then it is a simple failure. On a chance die, if the roll is a 1, then it is a Dramatic Failure, which is usually worse than a normal failure of the action, and is regulated by the Storyteller (although examples of Dramatic Failures in certain situations are occasionally given).

The game also features a much more simplified combat system. In the old system each attack made during a combat scene could easily involve 4 separate rolls ( :suicide:

) and in many cases required more due to supernatural abilities possessed by the characters. Combat scenes involving large numbers of combatants could take a very long time to resolve. The new system requires only one roll which is adjusted by the defensive abilities of the person being attacked and represents both the success and failure of the attack and the damage inflicted because of it, (indicated by number of successes). On top of this, the Second Edition has introduced a new system called "Down and Dirty Combat" which can reduce a fight to a single attack roll. It's great for when you don't want to spend your time duking it out with some random security guard or drunk jerk.

The new WOD also lacks the all encompassing metaplot of its predecessor. Much more about the surrounding world and history is left up to the Storyteller to decide. It is split up into several gamelines and they take a modular, toolbox approach to gaming. You can include some, or all of the splats into one giant clusterfuck of awesome. Or just use the core rules and gameline of your choice. House Rules are also encouraged. If you don't like something, feel free to change it!

What's all this talk about White Wolf and Onyx Path?

White Wolf was bought out by Icelandic videogame designers, CCP. CCP fell on some hard times right around the same time the tabletop market did a faceplant and had to lay off the majority of White Wolf. Onyx Path was founded by the old heads of White Wolf and hires out most of the old staff as freelancers to continue producing White Wolf properties with CCP's approval. They make liberal use of Kickstarter and have been doing fairly well for a company with three full time employees.

What's all this talk about Second Editions and Chronicles?

For a while CCP was worried about using the term Second Editions. So rules updates for various lines were called "The ___ Chronicle." Then the WOD MMO went under and CCP stopped caring so they're being titled Second Editions now. The Chronicle thing still stuck, though. Now its just more of a subtitle.

We're currently in the middle of the Second Edition rules update. Four lines have updates available, two of those being fully fledged Second Edition Corebooks. Five more are currently in production.

The Second Edition rules streamline a lot of things, overhaul the experience mechanics and serve as a setting update. The general consensus is that they've been pretty good so far (just don't ask Ferrinus about werewolves). Hopefully they can maintain the trend.

:siren:

The Core Line (AKA The Bluebooks, AKA Mortals) :siren:

World of Darkness Corebook - Gives you all the baseline rules for running a game. If you want to play a game about ordinary people dealing with spooky stuff this is all you need. Its' second edition, Chronicles of Darkness is out now.

Armory, Armory Reloaded, Dogs of War, Precinct 13, etc. - Stat blocks and alternate mechanic ideas for pretty much any kind of weapon, vehicle, or other you might use to wreck stuff. Also books about how different professions like the military or police might handle the WoD.

Second Sight, Skinchangers, Innocents, etc. - I won't list them all, but they basically expand on ideas that you can use in your games. They can be pretty hit or miss, but just post a question and you'll get everyone telling you their favorites. Psychics, ghosts, monsters that don't fit the other games, The Goonies; it all goes here. If it doesn't exist it's easy as pie to stat it up for your own games.

Dark Eras - A monster of a book that recently finished a successful Kickstarter campaign, it gives you setting information for various gamelines in various historical eras such as: Mages in the Hellenic Era, Changelings and Geists in Three Kingdoms China, Skinchangers and Demons in the Aztec Empire, and many more! Note: The Kickstarter got so big that it had to be split into two books. The Dark Eras Companion will be released shortly (or not so shortly) after the main book and will have even more period pieces including Vampires and Prometheans in the Black Death, Mummies and Mages in the Mutapa Empire, and Werewolves in Ancient Rome. See my post at the bottom of this page for a full list.

:siren:

The Gamelines :siren:

Vampire: The Requiem - You're a vampire! Hope you like eating people and politicking! Its' second edition, The Strix Chronicle, is out and it owns.

Werewolf: The Forsaken - You can turn into a wolfy killing machine! Find a balance between your human and animal sides. While at the same time being border patrol for the spirit world to keep them out of ours. Its' second edition, The Idigam Chronicle, is out and its pretty rad .

Mage: The Awakening - You're a wizard! Reality hates you, so break it in half! Okay, that's probably a bad idea, you should just Join the Seers. Its' second edition, The Fallen World Chronicle, is out now!

Promethean: The Created - You're a Frankenstein/Golem/Terminator! If you thought reality hated Mages just you wait! Find out what it means to be human, and hopefully become a real person! Its' second edition, The Firestorm Chronicle, is out now.

Changeling: The Lost - You were kidnapped by fairies, but managed to escape! Now there's a weird Not-You living your life and your kidnappers are probably searching for you right now! The first edition was lightning in a bottle. Its' second edition, The Huntsmen Chronicle, is in development and we're all really hoping it doesn't let that lightning out. :ohdear:

Hunter: The Vigil - You want to kill everything else on this list! Cruise around with your buddies like in Supernatural or join up with big Conspiracies. Also, try not to think about how jaded you're getting, everything will be fine, promise. Its' second edition, The Slasher Chronicle, will be coming out next year. Until then you can use the rules update in Mortal Remains.

Geist: The Sin-Eaters - You died, but a superghost fused itself to your soul and you came back! The superghost is really weird though and now you have to live with it. Its' second edition will most likely be announced at some point, which is good because boy does it need one.

Mummy: The Curse - You're a remnant of an ancient civilization! Too bad you can't remember much of it! Fulfill the arcane wills of your gods and try to figure out what really happened to you while you're at it. Probably won't be getting a second edition for a while.

Demon: The Descent - You're a fallen angel! Also God is a gnostic reality-spanning computer machine thing. If you don't want to get re-assimilated you better find a person to sell you their soul so you've got a place to hide. The first game to be made for the second edition. It owns.

Beast: The Primordial - Nope.

Deviant: The Renegades - You're the victims of experiments that band together to bring down the monolithic organizations that twisted and warped you. Scehduled to be released next year.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds interesting! How do I get started?

The easiest way to begin is to download the free Demos.

Vampire Demo

Werewolf Demo

Mage demos
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Promethean Demo

Changeling Demo

Hunter Demos
The Hunt
One Year Later

Geist Demo

Demon Demo

So I decided I want to actually buy some of this stuff, but there's a lot of books. Which are the good ones?
If you're just starting out, stick with the Corebooks. Especially if they're Second Edition.

I could use some Character Sheets.

quote:

http://sheetgen.dalines.net/wiki/WikiStart
This one is my favorite for online play. You can set up an account and save all the sheets you make, and edit them when you need to. easy to link to, and pretty good looking.

Mr.Gone's character sheets.
Bad site design with Good custom WoD character sheets in easy to print pdf format, also home to varying levels of homebrew.
infinite personae
This looks like a general sheet, I've never used it but somebody said it was cool.

Any good Homebrews?

Mugrim has run at least one really awesome homebrew in ST. (thread in archive)

Ferrinus and VoxPVoxD have done an almost complete rewrite of Mage from base principles. It owns and anyone who likes Mage needs to read this ASAP.

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Aug 5, 2016

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 14:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 03:28

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

NWOD sucks I want my Tzimiche/Fianna/etc back!

Well you're in luck! Onyx Path has released several translation guides so you can take things from the Classic World of Darkness and put them in the NWOD. Or vice-versa! Currently there are guides for Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage with a Demon guide on the way.

That's not good enough!

Well that's okay, too! Onyx Path is releasing new material for the Classic World of Darkness in the form of the 20th Anniversary Editions. They're also taking the opportunity to clean up some of the more... uncomfortable aspects of the CWOD.

People sure seem to like the CWOD. What's its deal?

quote:

The (Classic) World of Darkness is much like our world, but it is darker, more devious and more conspiratorial � an aesthetic we call �Gothic-Punk�. The dichotomy between the rich and the poor, the influential and the weak, and the powerful and the powerless is much more pronounced than in the real world. Decadence, cynicism, and corruption are common. Humans are unwitting victims or pawns of vast secret organizations of supernatural creatures. Vampires, werewolves, and mages (among others) struggle with internal factionalism and against other species in secret wars of intrigue for control.

Like the NWOD, Classic is composed of several gamelines of supernaturals. However, unlike the reboot, these lines don't play very well together mechanically.

:siren:

The Gamelines :siren:

The CWOD had no core, instead there were five major lines.

Vampire: The Masquerade - You're a vampire! Hope you like eating people and politicking! Its' 20th Anniversary Edition is out now! A proper 4th Edition has also been announced but it's still too far out for us to judge.

Werewolf: The Apocalypse - You're a werewolf. You fight for nature like only a proper 90s Environmentalist can. There's also all kind of other Were-stuff. Its' 20th Anniversary Edition is out now!

Mage: The Ascencion - You're a wizard. Reality is consensual. Everyone loves the Technocracy. Its' 20th Anniversary Edition is out now!

Wraith: The Oblivion - You're a ghost. Kind of. Held in very high esteem around these parts. Its' 20th Anniversary Edition wrapped up its Kickstarter last year and is currently in development.

Changeling: The Dreaming - Hoo boy. For better or for worse its' 20th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter wrapped up earlier this year and will be released soon. On the bright side it really has nowhere to go but up.

Later, several other lines were added to the mix. We most likely won't be seeing re-releases of these for a while:

Hunter: The Reckoning - Hunters! You have superpowers granted by God, at least you hope the voices in your head are God.

Mummy: The Resurrection - You're a mummy. One of the few instances of unquestionably "good" PCs. Not much going on with this one.

Demon: The Fallen - You're a fallen angel as per Paradise Lost. It was designed by Greg Stolze. General consensus around here seems to be that it owns.

What about Dark Ages? Wasn't that a thing?

Dark Ages was a historical setting for (you guessed it) Dark Ages Europe. V20 Dark Ages is out now, and the overall reception seems to be pretty positive. Odds of seeing more books for the setting show up on Kickstarter are very good.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Previous Megathreads Archive:
Megathread 1
Megathread 2
Megathread 3
Megathread 4

BONUS CONTENT:
Time of Judgement Announcement Thread
NWOD Release Thread
Megathread: Alpha Edition
Megathread: Beta Edition

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 21, 2016

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 14:08

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

I've heard it gets really weird. C/D?
Honestly, Onyx Path has been shockingly good on the WOD side of the fence. ~~We can only hope they don't go full White Wolf anytime soon.~~ Welp.

What's full White Wolf?

:v:

See FATAL & Friends, Page XX

:siren:

Reserved for words about the World of Darkness :siren:

ST'ing Mage (But also good advice in general):

Effectronica posted:

You're going to want to tailor this to your group. A game where the players are generally drawn towards any one or two of the Pentacle is going to look very different from a fully mixed group.

So I'm going to talk about dramatic structures for a moment, because this may be helpful in setting up things like foreshadowing, recurring themes, etc.

There are a variety of different possible ways of structuring stories. Some of the most common for structuring cohesive climactic stories are by dividing them into acts. An act, simply put, is a section of the story that ends with a point of no return that pushes the story forward.

Aristotle argued that plays should have three acts- beginning, middle, and end. This is what was common in 19th-century and early 20th-century drama, and an overly-rigid style of this has become predominant for aspiring writers and mass-market movies.

Horace argued for five acts, which Freytag has formalized as exposition-rising action-climax-falling action-denouement. This is what Renaissance and Early Modern dramatists preferred to use.

The areas of Chinese cultural influence have traditionally used a four-act structure, called kishoutenketsu, which is an acronym for introduction-development-twist-conclusion.

Musicals and light operas are traditionally split into two acts.

There are also less common eight-act, nine-act, and twelve-act structuring approaches.

With that in mind, I'm going to ignore three-act because it's not all that helpful here. Instead, I'm going to start with five-act and then move around as needed. So in the five-act structure, the first act is what sets the stage for the drama by introducing us to the principle characters and the central conflict of the story. The second act provides a series of events that build tension and interest. The third act is where the turning point of the story occurs, and the tension from the second act is released. The fourth act features the confrontation between the protagonist and the antagonist, and the fifth act wraps up the story and provides a final moment of release.

Othello exemplifies this. Act 1 introduces the characters, the setting, and the central conflict of Othello versus Iago. Act 2 consists of Iago forming his plan and putting it into action, while Act 3 shows us the turning point for Othello's character- he falls prey to doubt. Act 4 then shows Othello attempting to fight what Iago has unleashed in him, and failing. Act 5 then wraps the play up by killing off the cast and ending with Othello's grief-stricken suicide and the promise of a grisly fate for Iago.

You can also see the turning points at the end of each Act, except 5. Act 1 ends with the characters all going to Cyprus, Act 2 ends with Cassio's dismissal, Act 3 ends with Othello's handkerchief changing hands from Desdemona to Iago to Cassio, and Act 4 ends with Desdemona showing herself to be purely innocent. All of these move the story inexorably forward and present a point of no return for the characters.

So how does all this rambling bullshit help you? Well, let's take a look at how you would construct a campaign, or chronicle, or whatever, for Mage: the Awakening using the 5-act as a guide.

Act 1, the exposition, would consist of the characters Awakening and learning about Awakened society, and coming into contact with the big, central features that are going to define the overall story. Depending on how much the players know about Mage, this would end with either them committing to a position within Awakened society, or with them taking some defining action involving the central features.

Of course, the key issue is that you're writing this as you go in collaboration with the other players. So what you would want to do is come up with some brief blurbs to toss out to your players and see what they bite onto. These will in turn probably define the basic conflicts and themes for the rest of the campaign, in conjunction with who they align with.

So for example, if they bite onto Seers-related stuff and are all Arrow and/or Ladder, then your game is probably going to be about the whole "destroy the servants of the Exarchs" thing. If they bite onto Abyssal happenings and lean Veil/Mysterium, the game is probably going to focus on protecting reality from anti-existence. These are simplified and relying on stereotypes. If you get Thearchs focusing on the Lower Depths, you're going to have to improvise quite a bit, but you can still build with that.

I would suggest building a working framework. I have one, that I conjured up in ten whole minutes, for Mage.

_{(Fig. 1: magecube.png)}

Then, you can classify your blurbs into categories like these, and build up a picture of what interests your players about Mage, and also what you can use to have refreshing sessions that aren't dealing with the main plot.

So, in Act 2 when you've gotten to the end of Act 1, you should have a pretty good idea of what the basic conflict is going to be. The next step is to develop this basic conflict into a complex one. You need to establish what Freytag called a climax, but what should really be more accurately called an "inflection point", because it's where the emotional tone undergoes a basic shift. This is what will constitute Act 3. But Act 2 needs to set up Act 3. So you need to keep the basic conflict in mind as you put together adventures according to the desires and actions of the players, and use the basic conflict to put together a context for those actions that will lead to the turning point. You also need to make sure that the characters are in position for the turning point to make sense with the story so far.

What Freytag calls the rising action and I'm calling Act 2 is going to be the longest part of the story, though in Renaissance drama Act 2 and parts of Act 3 would generally share that role.

Act 3 is the "climax", the point at which the emotional tone generally turns around. Going back to the Arrow+Ladder vs. Seers concept, Act 3 is when they mass-Awaken people, or build an army of Proximi and Sleepwalkers, or turn the Fallen World's structures against the Seers. In a comedy, it's when things start looking up for our heroes. In a tragedy, it's when things start falling down. In a Godzilla movie, this is when the evil kaiju launches its deadliest attack and Godzilla seems down for the count.

Act 4 is the "falling action", and this is basically where the protagonists and antagonists have at it. So for The Blues Brothers, this is everything from when they escape through the trapdoor to the handcuffs closing on their hands in the Cook County Clerk's office. Act 4 doesn't really require that much planning. You've figured out which way things are going, now you just need to carry through the hanging threads and keep up the credible opposition.

Act 5 is the "denouement". This is where we wrap up the plot threads and show how all this played out, and provide a moment of release from the ride. So in The Blues Brothers, to double up on examples, this is "Jailhouse Rock". We get to relieve the tension of that final chase with a musical number and all the cast and crew enjoying themselves. By the point you're thinking about this, it should be pretty obvious what the players are aiming for. Depending on the outcome of the climax and Act 4, either give it to them, or provide a counterpoint, but you should have plenty to engage with.

I hope this rant, with its inconsistent, wide-ranging examples, was helpful to you. Also, please don't consider this a straitjacket. This is only one way to structure and examine stories, and although this is far too long already, I would love to be able to use kishoutenketsu to provide another approach.

EDIT: Also, this only really works for looking at the group as a whole. Each character's individual story will have more acts than this, under the definition of "act" all the way back at the beginning.

Demon

Mors Rattus posted:

Once upon a time, before man existed, there was a machine. This machine has been around for all of human civilization, but we can't see it. It hides itself in the world, both natural and man-made. It acts for a purpose, bringing forth terrible and glorious machine-angels, in order to fulfill arcane conditions needed to produce what it needs and to put it together the right way. We don't know what it needs, or why it needs it. It would be wrong to say it wants, because it does not think. It would be wrong to say it is malevolent, because it does not feel. It would be wrong to say it plans, because it is not a person. But it changes the world, and its changes are according to some design that no one could ever hope to understand. Its changes are not kind, though they can be positive. They are terrible, though not always to the people near them. The God-Machine takes what it needs, with neither remorse nor pity, and produces horrors and wonders with neither hatred nor pride.

Its angels have minds. They are, to an extent, people. They need this to fulfill their missions. These strange machine-angels are made for a purpose, each and every one. They are sent out into the world to do things, to kill things, to move things. They are the God-Machine's most trusted servants, and even they have no idea why they do what they do. But sometimes, they begin to question. Or they grow too attached, too emotional. And when this happens, an angel Falls. It cloaks itself in humanity, hiding among the masses - a machine-demon living in constant fear of its god. Not that the God-Machine hates demons - it just doesn't waste tools. A demon that is caught will be reformatted, remade into an angel once more, without true free will, without true emotion, without all of the new freedoms it has suddenly gained.

Freedom is terrifying, for a demon, but not as terrifying as losing it. And so demons pretend to be human, they bargain for souls to gain new identities to hide in. They dodge angels, track down secrets, prepare plans, and when they must, they fight, using all the terrible powers their creator gave them in order to protect themselves. Being a demon is a life of constant paranoia behind a face that was never yours. To survive, you will need to do terrible things - but it's up to you to decide which, and why. Maybe you want to tear down the God-Machine. Maybe you just want to be safe. Maybe you want to enjoy all that your new life has given you. And maybe you want to fix God, to make it something less terrible.

What matters is that you can't really trust anyone but yourself. The God-Machine is everywhere, though it is not infallible. Your fellow demons can help you, but you can never tell if they lie - and they can't tell if you do. What are you going to do with your new life?

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Aug 19, 2015

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 14:08

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

My thoughts exactly.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 14:36

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Hey OP, where'd the far better rules for Mage go from the OP?

e: And XP-based chargen. Real clown town itt

I missed the Mage link, it was hidden at the bottom of the page, my bad. Also does XP Chargen even matter anymore now that everything's been normalized?

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 18:01

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Okay, so drop the last bit then? Because I'm not really attached to it and pretty much left it in because I figured the thread was into it or w/e.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 20:08

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

So we now know the complete list of Dark Eras. I broke it down and sorted them by gameline. The ones marked with asterisks are getting dedicated expansions (as opposed to expansions that just add another line).

Bluebook: Aztec Skinchangers, Second Sight Age of Spiritualism
Vampire: Black Death, Elizabethan
Werewolf: Neolithic, Rome, Viking, 70s New York City
Mage: Neolithic, *Hellenic*, Mutapa
Promethean: Black Death, 30 Years War, Year Without a Summer, Dust Bowl
Changeling: Three Kingdoms, Elizabethan, Three Musketeers, Brothers Grimm
Hunter: Sengoku/Tokugawa, *Salem*
Geist: Three Kingdoms, Viking, Roanoke, 50s New Zealand
Mummy: Cleopatra, Mutapa, *Fall of British & Ottoman Empires*
Demon: Aztec, Fall of Constantinople, Russian Revolution, Cold War

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Apr 10, 2015

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 11:29

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yeah, Vampires have a bunch of historical stuff to fall back on (Rome, 80s, that proto-Dark Eras book) and Hunters are probably the easiest splat to port over into whatever you're doing at the time.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 15:37

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

So yeah I'm just going to clip that post cause its p much a flippin apple of discord in this thread and we got enough discord as it is, we don't need any help from a bunch of lame gags from 2+ years ago.

paradoxGentleman posted:

Speaking of Blood and Smoke (as I have never read a single cWoD book I barely have an idea of what is being talked about) , was anyone else taken aback by reading it the first time? The veey first thing it shows you are the Clans, and the very first clans are the Daevas, who are written in such a way (I distinctly remember the term "communion of the cock and the oval office") that I got an inkling of what you guys mean when you say "going full White Wolf".

I don't remember finding anything too weird in it, but I was also bouncing back and forth and came in knowing about Requiem stuff so if something was off it might have just gone over my head.

Edit: VVV VVV

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 10, 2015

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 21:18

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Fault corrected. Front page now more White Wolf than ever. :colbert:

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 21:21

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Mulholland Drive is Mage as all hell.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2015 22:18

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Mors Rattus posted:

I think it was Damnation City. Which, incidentally, is the exact book where you can see nWoD turning the corner and deciding to stop doing that stuff quite so much, maybe put more thought into the implications of what it does. I wonder if you can pinpoint the exact page.

Once Rose came on board as a writer (and later developer) Vampire really started to find its feet and make serious moves towards the eventual 2E. I doubt it was literally because of her presence, but it's a pretty reliable landmark for the start of the "1.5E"

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 02:44

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

I think this sums up the Obrimos pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouwCWDbBskU

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 14:27

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

paradoxGentleman posted:

Is that blog post about Beast: the Primordial that they were talking about up yet?

The first one just went up HERE.

It's just an intro + fiction, still interesting though.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 02:15

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Ferrinus posted:

I guess if Changeling is going to be Hunter, it's only fair that Beast is going to be Changeling.

Changeling is going to be Hunter?

I'm going to regret asking this aren't I?

Edit: Oh right Huntsmen, got it.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 03:04

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Hey look what else just got posted

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 04:35

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Also to clarify, that looks more like maybe a chapter opener. The actual gameline intro fiction pieces are like several pages long.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 14:16

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yeah, I'm with Gerund. All we have to go on is a bit of fiction and some snarky forum posts. So far we have next to nothing from the actual book. Beast's Kickstarter should be next in the chute after Lore of the Clans, so even discounting the blogs we'll be getting, the whole thing will be up probably mid-to-late May.

Also here's something from the OPP Forums:

Matthew McFarland posted:

So, fun fact: I actually wrote that bit a long time ago, as part of the original pitch for Beast. It doesn't appear in the book, although I like Eve and if we do an anthology I may write a story about her. But when I did that post for the blog, I had to read through that fiction bit and think, "OK, now that the rules are written, can you actually do this stuff?"

And the answer is: Yes, though some of it is more cosmetic than anything. But Eve could have flooded that room.

So there's that, too.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 16:35

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Ferrinus posted:

And they should come after you when you're sated, not when you're hungry. C'mon, people.

The blogpost mentions they come if you eat too little or too much, so it's probably changed.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 01:42

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Hopefully they'll clean up some of the more rediculous bits, because a lot of this sounds really cool.

GimpInBlack posted:

You're welcome.

EDIT: I came this close to including a Nightmare called That Song You Like is From Twenty Years Ago.

Oh my god.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 14:39

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

jagadaishio posted:

I think the actual issue with Beast its that it's a less-compelling version of Changeling. They're human-looking monsters changed into something else by nightmare creatures, feed their supernatural powers by causing emotions in victims, specialize in specific feelings, and live in dream-logic lairs carved into in otherworldly fairy tale dimension.

They're, at best, trying to fill the niche of particularly potent Autumn Court members and, at worst, are spooky things living in lairs in Hollows, emerging from the hedge to cause trouble and serve as a cautionary tale for why you shouldn't get too similar to the gentry.

Beast reads as something written by someone who wanted to play Changeling, but with a higher power level and a font featuring tacky blood drips and skulls and none of the nuance or depth.

At least, that's my problem with it. I can't see any reason to play it over the exact same character concept but in Changeling, save for being really interested in the raw power that Atavisms provide. I can't wrap my head around what niche they're trying to fill.

Beasts aren't changed into Beasts, they're born like that. Its basically a coming out metphor. (Except my coming out didn't involve hoarding gold and eating people) Also they feed on more than emotions, it looks more like they feed on concepts. Plus, I think at least some the similarities to the other lines are meant to be like a built-in hook for crossover stuff.

VVV :ohdear:

VVV

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Apr 14, 2015

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 15:08

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

paradoxGentleman posted:

It's a good sign that the writers here on SA are taking the critism so well, but I cannot help but remember that most criticism towards Heroes is mostly being shut down.

In his defense that RPGnet thread turned into a total mess and literally had people freaking out about insidious feminists and other weird junk (I agree it felt like he was dodging it though). The OPP blog's comments seem a bit more sane and a couple people posted some pretty good wall-of-text criticisms that he actually responded to. Granted it was to the effect of "Sorry to hear that. I hope these blogs can change your mind. If not, no hard feelings" but he's at least aware of it as more than a "But they're called Heroes why can't I play ooooone" kind of deal so hopefully something will come of it.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 15:48

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Honestly, unless one of the devs is sitting on something brilliant, I hope Beast is the last gameline for a bit. I'd like to see them just focus on fleshing out what they have for a little while. I mean, counting Beast, we'll be at ten lines plus the core.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 17:28

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Holy moly. :stare:

Mors those are going in the OP.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 21:39

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Basically, Demons own.

Ferrinus posted:

Oh, yeah, like, I couldn't have done any better. It's just, there's an annoying tendency in the White Wolf fanbase in general to, as soon as something falls under criticism, take a deep breath, type the BBcode to begin italics, and then start writing some prose about how meaningful and moving it is that a vampire hunter's stake has splintered against a Gangrel's impregnable turtle shell or whatever. That doesn't actually help!!

I was this close to ragging on you for not working Protean 2.0 into your last rant, but drat if you didn't deliver. :golfclap:

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 23:48

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

moths posted:

The Hero thing really feels like a dated jab at Everquest players.

And I think Beast might work if the Beast and its host exist in an antagonistic relationship. While the host is satisfying the hunger, he has some autonomy. Maybe he only eats bad people, or steals things that won't be missed. But then if he fails to satisfy the Beast? Black out, go full NPC, and now you get to deal with whatever mess the Beast made while it was driving.

The disconnect is that Beast seems like you're Dr Jekyll doing solids for his bro Mr Hyde, and that really loving misses the point.

It doesn't seem like your Human Soul and your Beast Soul are intended to be separate things. Like I said before, a lot of the language and descriptors they're using are making me think its more like a Coming Out or Dysphoria metaphor. The whole Low Satiety Nightmare Romps or w/e seem more like your subconscious manifesting your identity the only way it can. Except in your case its not having weird dreams or hitting on someone when you're drunk, its blitzing through nightmares flipping tables. Mind you my queerness doesn't get the itis after pride parades though, so the max satiety rule still clunks with me a bit.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2015 23:57

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Kurieg posted:

How does a demon get their first cover in the first place then? How do they get from "Running away from god" to "Hiding inside an edgar suit"?

Generally they keep the one they had before they fell. The Fall fries the systems used to link the Demon and the GM together and as a result the Demon + Cover just sort of blip off the grid. If the pre-Fall Demon doesn't have a cover for whatever reason, they better hurry up and get one, cause that's a bad day for them.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2015 00:31

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Honestly, most of that stuff seems pretty clear to me. Yeah there's a bit of a grey area, but w/e that's just being flexible. I agree Fear of the Skies would probably work better as Fear of Exposure, but I automatically made that mental leap when I read it so its close enough for me. I don't really care too much about little nitpicks when there's like legit major issues that need to be addressed.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2015 22:33

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yeah the Dark Eras book(s) is still is a thing. Constantinople is going to be in the main book. I also posted a full list of eras at the bottom of the first page if you're curious what else is going in.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2015 01:56

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yeah, lbr if you want to talk about primal fears Zubats are definitely at the top of the list.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2015 14:32

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Mors Rattus posted:

Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome.

And when a Changeling decides to hunt a mythic monster, they can use Talecrafting and pledges to make themselves into the perfect hero to kill a monster. Basically: Changelings own.

drat right Changelings own.

God I hope 2E doesn't fumble it. :ohdear:

On another note, Matt McFarland brought up the leak in the RPGnet thread, for those curious.

BlackHatMatt, RPGnet posted:

Someone broke their NDA for the express purpose of trying to get a freelancer fired - a freelancer who didn't even work on Beast. They posted the undeveloped text of the game on another site, and it's probably still out there somewhere.

And the frank truth of the matter is, I don't care. I mean, sure, it's disappointing to me, because that kind of action is childish and hostile, and that's sad. It's disappointing because it means people can base their opinions of the game on unfinished work, and although the game isn't going to get a huge overhaul, there are some pretty important changes that weren't yet made. But at the end of the day? I don't really care. We're going to release the developed text of the game when the Kickstarter goes live, and then you can read it and see for yourself.

The "leak" isn't a problem because the text is out there in the ether. This isn't 1994, and I'm not wringing my hands over anything secret getting revealed; I'm not big on secrets. It's a problem because it represents a breach of trust, and because it's indicative of the destructive, mean-spirited, and again, childish culture that you find in parts of the Internet.

But you don't combat that by getting indignant about that - that's precisely what the guy who broke NDA wants. You combat it by doing the same thing that I do with my preschool students when they have tantrums: Wait it out and make sure no one gets hurt. Respond calmly and kindly.

So: I would appreciate it if we didn't discuss the leaked version, because parts of it are inaccurate and have been changed, and I'm not interested in doing a thousand-question "but what about this part?" session. But you folks have been awesome about actually discussing this material, and believe it or not some of the points and criticisms that you've raised, even with the little bit of information you've had, has helped me develop the book and start to prepare for sourcebooks.

Stallion Cabana posted:

It's not really surprising but probably kind of amusing that the two splats where you can sum up one of their antagonists as 'Your Math Teacher, but you were right to hate them' are in conflict

That's Dreaming, not Lost.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2015 23:16

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

moths posted:

IIRC Orpheus, Promethian, and (originally) nHunter were all planned to be limited runs - a core book and then a half dozen or so expanding splats. That honestly seems like the strongest way to deliver material, since you get a much tighter focus than standard treadmill development.

Close. Every line in the NWOD besides the big three were set to be limited runs. Changeling just did so well that they gave it another run of books. Also, WW started to fall apart while Geist was in dev so it wound up with a chapter in a bluebook.

OPP seems to be following a similar, if less rigid, model. The main difference is that they aren't limited to a single cycle, so if someone comes up with a great idea for, say, a Demon book or w/e it can still get made.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2015 19:42

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Daeren posted:

That explains the two Night Horrors books, three Bloodline books, and two Ancients books

You leave Night Horrors out of this!

Unless you're talking about the Wicked Dead cover cause yikes.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2015 23:34

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Speaking of Bloodlines, there were three posted on the OPP blog a while back for 2E.

Neglatu, uplifted revenants.

Khaibit, returning from 1E, they've gone from direction-less relics to anti-Strix mercenaries.

Kerberos, ....uh? I don't really know how to describe these, but Ferrinus should love 'em.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2015 03:38

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

We've finally found NWOD Batman.

"Echidna is deaaaaaad!"

# ¿ Apr 20, 2015 18:19

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

I think you're thinking of Apocalypse, which more or less was.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2015 17:12

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yes but in defense of Conspiracy games:

"In 2012, a crack TF:V unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit."

Crion posted:

I mean, it's cool that you like Hunter and all, and this is certainly a game you can play using the line, but what you're describing is the compact-size Union game. Not all of Hunter. There's a whole lot of chaff in that product, and a whole lot of the time you are only relatively outclassed and outgunned -- especially if you're part of a conspiracy.

The "line" that fully and completely supports what you're talking about here is core WoD, played with mortal PCs.

They could also be describing practically any "Tier 1" game where the PCs are just some friends/family/co-workers fighting monsters. Compacts still have a level of organization that baseline Hunter games don't. Also, Mortals games don't really operate like Hunter. They're more about investigating something spooky or dealing with a single problem. Hunter is about going out and actively fighting and killing spooky monsters, regardless of how organized you are.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2015 20:02

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Werewoof, werewoof, werewoof is on fire!

We don't need no Essence let the motherfucker burn!

# ¿ Apr 21, 2015 20:18

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Zombiejack posted:

That's unfair, crude racial stereotypes went far beyond big chief sitting wolf, the Celts were drunk and magic, the Eastern ones where evil ruthless scumbags and the Germanic ones where nazis. Not to mention the 90's hokey mysticism.

TBH I kind of want to play a Black Fury game where the party has to seal an ancient portal into a realm of pure madness, the dreaded "Gamer's Gate."

# ¿ Apr 21, 2015 21:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 03:28

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

paradoxGentleman posted:

The image of a Beast trying to befriend with puppy-like enthusiasm all the other supernatural critters by pointing out how they are all related, only to be met with a mixture of disinterest and disdain, is reason enough to use this splat IMHO.

Ironically, for all the talk about Heroes thinking everything is about them, I feel like a lot of the more interesting/fun ideas for Beasts come from Beats having to come to terms with the fact that its not all about them, either.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2015 13:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

«‹›6 »