|
whydirt posted:My only direct contact with WoD was a short Vampire game in the mid-90s, but I've been skimming this thread out of curiosity. The God-Machine thing from Demon sounds cool, can someone give me a short blurb about it and/or that particular game? Once upon a time, before man existed, there was a machine. This machine has been around for all of human civilization, but we can't see it. It hides itself in the world, both natural and man-made. It acts for a purpose, bringing forth terrible and glorious machine-angels, in order to fulfill arcane conditions needed to produce what it needs and to put it together the right way. We don't know what it needs, or why it needs it. It would be wrong to say it wants, because it does not think. It would be wrong to say it is malevolent, because it does not feel. It would be wrong to say it plans, because it is not a person. But it changes the world, and its changes are according to some design that no one could ever hope to understand. Its changes are not kind, though they can be positive. They are terrible, though not always to the people near them. The God-Machine takes what it needs, with neither remorse nor pity, and produces horrors and wonders with neither hatred nor pride. Its angels have minds. They are, to an extent, people. They need this to fulfill their missions. These strange machine-angels are made for a purpose, each and every one. They are sent out into the world to do things, to kill things, to move things. They are the God-Machine's most trusted servants, and even they have no idea why they do what they do. But sometimes, they begin to question. Or they grow too attached, too emotional. And when this happens, an angel Falls. It cloaks itself in humanity, hiding among the masses - a machine-demon living in constant fear of its god. Not that the God-Machine hates demons - it just doesn't waste tools. A demon that is caught will be reformatted, remade into an angel once more, without true free will, without true emotion, without all of the new freedoms it has suddenly gained. Freedom is terrifying, for a demon, but not as terrifying as losing it. And so demons pretend to be human, they bargain for souls to gain new identities to hide in. They dodge angels, track down secrets, prepare plans, and when they must, they fight, using all the terrible powers their creator gave them in order to protect themselves. Being a demon is a life of constant paranoia behind a face that was never yours. To survive, you will need to do terrible things - but it's up to you to decide which, and why. Maybe you want to tear down the God-Machine. Maybe you just want to be safe. Maybe you want to enjoy all that your new life has given you. And maybe you want to fix God, to make it something less terrible. What matters is that you can't really trust anyone but yourself. The God-Machine is everywhere, though it is not infallible. Your fellow demons can help you, but you can never tell if they lie - and they can't tell if you do. What are you going to do with your new life?
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 05:48 |
|
|
Night10194 posted:See, this is cool. This is a lot cooler than 'I'm a monster who does terrible things but it is the HEROES who are Bad!' I could write one of these for Beast if you like. It'd take me a bit, mind, I have some work to do first and then I have to extrapolate some poo poo from the rules and the parts of the fluff that I don't hate, but.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 20:42
|
|
|
Now, keep in mind, I don't know how much Matt MacFarland would agree with me on this. Humanity is a terrified little species. They are afraid of everything. They fear the eyes in the dark, the cry over the high mountains, the mist over the moors. They are afraid of all the monsters they envision in the world, and they fill the world with monsters. And for good reason, because the monsters are real. There are always monsters. There are always the claws in the dark, the face in the mists, the black dog of the moors. Outside the little circle of firelight, the monsters make their home. You among them. There are always monsters, and you know that better than anyone. You are the monster. You are the reason for the fear. You were born to be feared, and that fear makes you strong. You know they are weak, tiny creatures - but they are many, and it is their world. It cannot be your world, not truly, but you can make them understand - the darkness is still yours. They have spread the light far and wide, but it can never be far enough. You know the joy of their fear, their worship. It is that on which you feed - it is not the flesh, though that can be nice. It is not the gold, though that can be useful. It is not the destruction, though it feels so good. What you crave is the moment when all they can think of, all they can do, is to pray that you will let them go. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you regret your decision. Because this isn't your world, it is theirs. For all your power, for all their fear, they outnumber you. When you exact your tribute, when you take what is your right, they are upset. And sometimes, the darkness isn't enough. Sometimes the light is too strong, and then come the knives and the torches and the guns. There is always a monster, but sometimes, they hunt the monster. So perhaps it would better to lie back, to let yourself forget that wonderful, terrible prayer. But then what? There is always a monster. There must be a monster. And if it is not you, then it is your children. When you rest, when you lie back, the terror that lies within your soul does not rest. Out in the shadows, it lays its eggs in souls. It awakens new monsters, to come and test themselves against you. They do not have your mind. They do not have your will. But they want what is yours, your throne and your birthright. So is that better? To forgo being a monster and instead create them? At least when you are the monster, you control what is done. You choose your prey. Certainly, it may all taste the same once you have it, but you can choose what it is you are a monster about. And it cannot be denied - it does feel good. Perhaps you'll regret it. Perhaps you sympathize with the little men huddling around the fire. But is it better to walk with them and know that among them, new monsters will arise to fill your vacant throne? Or is it better to stand apart, to be the monster, and know that you could always be worse? What is better - the cries of the mob, or giving up your control of the chaos and the raw, powerful joy of fear and worship? Because you know, better than anyone else: there must always be a monster.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 21:27
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:So basically, if you try to shirk being a monster, other people are going to be taken and made into monsters? That's certainly how I see Heroes. You're not monstering enough, so the monster part of you is heading out there and making things that will either force you to monster or will monster in your place.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
Luminous Obscurity posted:Holy moly. Thanks! I like writing this stuff up. Might do it for the other lines eventually.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
I'm doing the best with what I've got to write about. Were I to tear it down and start fresh, I'd drop Heroes as a thing entirely.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
whydirt posted:How do Demon soul bargains work? Are they just getting your soul after you die or the ability to hide in you while you live or something else? What can they offer humans to make such a deal? When a demon makes a pact for someone's soul, the person has to sign in blood. They don't have to understand what they're doing, but the demon can't lie about it. They say they're asking for your soul. They don't, however, have to explain what that necessarily entails. What the human gets is based on what the demon offers, but a demon can offer a lot - it can offer you riches, power, connections. A demon can hand out Merits, skill dots, stuff like that. They can buy parts of someone's life with this - in which case, say, I buy your friendship with someone. You stop having ever been that friend. That's done. I, the Demon, am their friend now, and their memory is edited such that anything you did with or to them, I did. (I don't know what that was, though, unless I do my homework or you tell me. But either way, it's part of my life now, reinforcing my human cover.) But when a demon buys a soul, well, nothing happens at first. The human gets what they ask for. But when the terms come into effect and the demon wants or needs a new life, all they have to do is touch the human. The human's soul, mind and identity are utterly annihilated. They are gone, fuel in the process of giving the demon a new Cover, a new human identity they can wear like a skin. And then the demon is that person, in every way, except for memories and, of course, personality. But the world just treats them as if they'd always been that person, and they can wear that person's body and identity to hide their demonic self, much as they can with the original human identity they got when Falling.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2015 23:43
|
|
|
It's also notable that there is pretty much nothing out there that kills you deader than a demonic soul pact. You don't get a ghost, you don't get an afterlife, you don't get anything. You're just gone. Depending on if you believe the Underworld is the only afterlife out there, this may be considered a benefit. The Underworld's a pretty lovely place.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 00:20
|
|
|
Yeah, the God-Machine sets you up in a human identity. Why can't it remember it put you there when you Fall? Well, that's because: A. it doesn't think, and B. it's not infallible. Things get lost. Mistakes are made. You can, in fact, fool God. When a Demon falls, the universe around it actually very briefly breaks down - causality goes haywire, mysterious events occur from the occult force of it all, and the God-Machine just loses track of what's going on.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 00:49
|
|
|
Coincidence, I think, since its first mention was in a fiction snippet in the original nWoD core.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 02:18
|
|
|
SunAndSpring posted:I'm kind of wondering where the conflict is in Beast is after you kill your Hero. You've got no moral compass like other splats, so I guess you just wander around and make humans feel bad to satiate your Hunger until another plucky moron comes to kill you. Of course, other splats also have to feed off or collect some sort of thing (Vitae, Aether, Glamour, etc.), but the difference is that those games keep those things in the background. You might describe how your vampire goes and drinks a bit of blood from a girl you met at the bar who you seduced, but it's just a stepping stone to fulfilling other goals, like using the blood you drank to turn invisible or hypnotize a guy. Whereas this is the only goal I can think of that you have asides from murdering those who want to stop you from Beasting it up. Having a recurring goal isn't inherently bad. For a game that does it right, again, I point to Werewolf. Werewolves have the same goal every month: find something to Sacred Hunt and then loving murder it. Might be a spirit that's trespassing where it shouldn't, a Claimed up to no good, a Shartha doing Shartha poo poo, or some dude you really don't like. But what we're doing tonight, Pinky, is what we do every night - hunt.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
Families are exceptionally broad. Anakim/Giants represent fears of helplessness, particularly before authority or strength. Their lairs tend to be Echoing, Jagged, have Sealed Exits, Toxic or Unstable. They are associated with the Atavisms Cyclopean Strength, Looming Presence, Mimir's Wisdom and Titanic Blow. Once per scene, they can automatically smash through a physical obstacle in their way in a single turn, though if it's magical in some way it takes a point of Satiety. Eshmaki/Lurkers represent fears of destruction, and they tend to be sneaky and hidden until the moment when they strike. Their lairs tend to be Cramped, have Darkness, Extreme Cold, Mirages or Stench. They are associated with the Atavisms Dragonfire, From the Shadows, Limb From Limb and Relentless Hunter. When they successfully execute a melee attack on someone unsuspecting, they can automatically inflict a Tilt like Arm Wrack or Leg Wrack, or choose to do damage and initiate a grapple at once. Makara/Leviathans represent fears of the depths, water, drowning and so on. Their lairs tend to have Crushing Pressure, Currents, Downpour, Flooded or Undergrowth. They are associated with the Atavisms Alien Allure, Embrace of the Deep, Heart of the Ocean and Siren's Treacherous Song. They can breathe underwater and are immune to any ill effects from water pressure or changes in water pressure. Namtaru/Gorgons represent fears of revulsion, disgust and isolation. Their lairs tend to be Echoing, Gluey, full of Noxious Gases, Poor Light or Swarms. They are associated with the Atavisms Basilisk's Touch, Infestation, Shadowed Soul and Unbreakable. Once per scene, they can automatically inflict the Shaken or Guilty conditions or another, similar one on someone. Ugallu/Raptors represent fears of exposure, sky and terror from above. Their lairs tend to have Crosswinds, Exposed, Fog, Thin Air or Thunderous. They are associated with the Atavisms Feral Cry, Needs Must, No Escape and Storm-Lashed. They can leap the same distance they can run in a turn without needing to roll, either vertically or horizontally. That's pretty much all the mechanical and thematic weight that Families have, but they tend to shape what your Soul looks like - Giants tend to be huge things, Lurkers tend to be vicious monsters that can hide in the dark, Leviathans tend to be sea monsters, Gorgons tend to be hideously ugly things and Raptors tend to be flying things. The rest of the Family stuff is character seeds, monsters that resonate with them and stereotype lists.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
Unfortunately, I would say that the book plays up the actual exposure themes a lot less than it plays up BIIIIIIRDS, HIGH ABOVE YOU!!! Similarly, with Makara, it plays up WAAAATEEEER OOOOO a lot more than feeling crushed, out of control and overwhelmed. And the stereotypes are terrible but when are they ever not?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 16:53
|
|
|
It should also be noted that the powers Ugallu get best access to are generally not about watching or spying or being good at knowing stuff - they're about movement and weather. The sole exception is Needs Must, which gives you a kind of prey-sense for things that will help satisfy your Hunger. Now, admittedly, each Family only gets four Atavisms in the first place, but for the Ugallu, those are: Summon Animals, Sense Prey, Good At Running Around and Summon Thunderstorm.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
For the record: Anakim: Lift Heavy Things, Be Really Big, Memory Tricks (And Also Anti-Lying) and Break Things. Eshmaki: Shoot Fire, Super Stealth, Nasty Claws and Regeneration. Makara: Really Pretty, Grapple Super Well, Grab Bag Of Water-Theme Powers and Grab-Bag Of Voice-Theme Powers Namtaru: Poison Touch, Made Of Bugs, Made Of Shadows and Super Armor
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
Atavisms aren't based on fears - the fear powers are Nightmares, which aren't Family-specific. Atavisms are your 'I am actually a monster, so here is my monster nature' abilities. They're physical tricks that are mostly always-on. But even then, Ugallu only really get one even slightly sensory Atavism.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 20:54
|
|
|
I'm pretty okay with the families being a little broad and relatively unimportant. That's okay - they're a little more mechanically relevant than Demonic incarnations, but nowhere near as important as Werewolf tribe, Vampire clan or Mage path. I think Makara and Ugallu are both a little overly focused on the image rather than the metaphor but it is such a minor issue compared to everything about Heroes and the power level of Atavisms.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2015 23:51
|
|
|
Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome. And when a Changeling decides to hunt a mythic monster, they can use Talecrafting and pledges to make themselves into the perfect hero to kill a monster. Basically: Changelings own.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 16, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
I'm happy to wait on judgment until we get the revised text, sure. I don't foresee Heroes changing all that much, based on all this, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 00:16
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:My favorite thing about CCP's downward spiral was their CEO trying to defend the 70 dollar monocle by claiming that it was a fashion statement on par with wearing 1000 dollar jeans in real life. Then saying that not buying the monocle was on par with wearing thrift store clothing. My favorite thing about that was that it was all the fault of Ryan Dancey.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 05:50
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I dunno, the Secret World is pretty WoD-ish, and it's the best single player MMORPG out there. Well, second=best. FFXIV's got a good thing going.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 05:57
|
|
|
Literally The Worst posted:Did Fallen World Chronicle ever come out y/n Awakening 2e is not yet out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
Daeren posted:That explains the two Night Horrors books, three Bloodline books, and two Ancients books The Ancient pair was a great set of books, at least, and Night Horrors was generally middling to good. Bloodlines...gave us the Players?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2015 23:47
|
|
|
Promethean wasn't perfect, but I would say its primary flaw was not 'trouble with group play.' Its primary flaw was 'only tells the one story'. It was really good at that, though.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 02:09
|
|
|
Yeah, that's Apocalypse at its worst. Forsaken, now... Well, you've always been angry. You've always been different - too angry, too mean, too quick to judge. And one night, it all built up. As the moon rose, it all become too much. You changed, and it was glorious and terrible. You let loose all the anger, all the frustration, all the hunger that you always held in check. It was exhilarating! Until that night, you had never truly been alive. And when you woke up, you were covered in blood, naked and still smiling. That's when they found you. They explained to you - you felt different because you were. Because you are more than human. They don't see the world as it is. You are more than flesh and bone. That hunger within you, that anger, they are more than anger and hunger. You are spirit as much as flesh. And you have a duty, they said. We have a duty. To feed that hunger, and to stake a claim. They told you about Father Wolf and Mother Luna. About the history of your kind, of werewolves. But that really wasn't what you cared about. That was ancient history. What mattered now was the world around you. They took you in, and they taught you to hunt. That was important - and it was the greatest joy you'd ever felt. Stalking the prey, cornering them, harrying them, chasing - and, at the end, making the kill. You still remember the feeling of tearing the meat with your teeth. Though it wasn't meat, really. Living steel, a spirit of metal and bone. And that was amazing, too. To see a world that no one else would know, to see creatures who treated you with fear and respect - creatures alien to anything you had ever seen. They hated you, to be sure, but they feared you, too. They knew - this is your patch. Your territory. And you know it, too. Consecrated with blood, again and again. You have named your enemies, and you have given yourself to the hunt. It is a fine line, walking between man and spirit, but you manage it. And every hunt, you are stronger, better. Every kill, you reinforce your sacred claim. There is no greater joy than this. The wolf must hunt.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 17:22
|
|
|
Is there really such a thing as a death that isn't ultimately pointless? Especially in the World of Darkness.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 17:44
|
|
|
You get access to the WP-risking mechanic that no one ever remembers. I can't wait for the inevitable Hunter 2e, by the way, so we can get cleaned up compacts/conspiracies (some of 'em really need it) and a reworked take on the Code to handle Integrity.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
Crion posted:The amount of off-brand repeat corebook conspiracies/compacts hanging around (Ashwood Abbey's Bear Lodge/Hunt Club is easily most the most blatant, but the X-Files Family could do with cleaning up too) is actually kind of startling when you look at it In fairness, were I tasked with it I would replace Ashwood entirely with the Bear Lodge.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
Yeah, it's easy to forget that monsters of all kinds are pretty rare even in the nWoD, it's just what we have all these rules for because they're what the game is about.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
There is the other question of 'if someone is stalking, kidnapping and ritually murdering young women in your neighborhood, does it really matter what flavor of humanoid they are?'
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 23:17
|
|
|
The joke is that they're the Technocracy. That's it. That's the entire joke.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 21, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
You don't, because it's a silly word. I suggest things like 'sacrifice' or 'bargain' instead. Chiminage is an obsolete Franco-English word for a toll paid on a forest road.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2015 04:59
|
|
|
Nicolae Carpathia posted:If you're not going to use the goofy obscure words in place of common words then why are you even playing a White Wolf game in the first place Chiminage is like two steps above Vitae, Celerity and Auspex, by rights of having extra syllables, sounding super goofy even in comparison and being equally well-served by the term 'sacrifice' which is really quite a nice little word. (Metis is about on par with Chiminage though, perhaps worse. Don't use Metis.)
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2015 05:44
|
|
|
Yeah, I was being too soft on Metis. It is far worse than Chiminage. (Don't use Metis.) Chiminage should totally have been abandoned in the jump to nWoD, though. It isn't appropriate any more, however fitting it might have been for WtA. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 24, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
Dave Brookshaw posted:Chiminage has been dropped in Forsaken second ed. And we're all better for it.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2015 13:20
|
|
|
It is still exceptionally well-written and I have high hopes for Promethean 2e.
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
Lack of Changeling world-spanning conspiracies controlling everything.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
Old World of Darkness isn't all bad but it had very little quality control and it was 90s as gently caress. It absolutely was the goofiest poo poo imaginable though.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
The Sons of Ether, of course, abandoned modern science for the fantasy science of yesteryear, particularly Victorian steampunk bullshit (with a side order of colonialism) and the atomic wonders of the 50s (with a side order of radiation and cold war mindset). The Virtual Adepts were 90s cyberpunk hackers. Neither has much resemblance to actual scientists; then again, neither does any version of the Technocracy, because Mage has always been about 90s stereotypes and magic, rather than anything even vaguely science-related.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2015 22:13
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 05:48 |
|
|
oChangeling is weird, but it does contain a book which literally claims that Sir Isaac Newton and Newtonian physics were a plot to destroy dreams. It goes on to fellate Leibniz as a changeling hero.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2015 22:22
|
|