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Yawgmoth posted:That's certainly the complete dismissal of valid concerns without actually reading a word of said concern that I've come to expect out of you. But since I have time to post at work, I'll tl;dr it for you: the problem isn't that the topic is explored, it's how that exploration is presented. Specifically, a book titled "sexmurder" with zero other context (because it's a book cover) is, if nothing else, in extremely poor taste. it's actually a goon having a hilarious meltdown over nothing
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Apr 10, 2015 16:05
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Gerund posted:Onyx Path publicly advertised the name "sexmurder" in customer-facing branding for a long time before print. The rant itself existed before you ever brought it to print. Until nearly the print was made, the product was to all consumers known as sexmurder. why do you care what their developmental name for a roleplaying game was
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Apr 10, 2015 20:25
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"The prior edition of this roleplaying game was better." - Ferrinus
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Apr 16, 2015 01:05
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Remove non-resource merits from the game imo
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Apr 25, 2015 06:55
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Androc posted:A lot of the associated flavor text feels... well. Kith power: And Then Everybody Stoop Up and Started Clapping
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Apr 29, 2015 18:21
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Daeren posted:I may be misremembering but most of the ways demons can get agg involve serious risk. Changelings shouldn't be the sorts who can just snap their hands and get agg on a whim, though, and Beast has bigger fish to fry (though instant agg is a fish worth frying.) According to the Creative Thaumaturgy writeup, mages can deal agg with Unraveling at 4 and with 5 they just destroy whatever they're Unmaking without fiddling with "damage"  ^
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Apr 29, 2015 22:00
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http://theonyxpath.com/the-creative-arts-mage-the-awakening/quote:Unravelling spells can significantly impair or damage phenomena under the Arcanum’s purview, or directly inflict severe damage using the forces of an Arcanum. A raging storm might become a calm summer’s day (Forces), solid iron reduced to dust (Matter), even spells can be torn asunder (Prime). Mages can hurl fire (Forces) at their enemies, or cause aneurysms and heart attacks with a glance (Mind or Life) Damage inflicted by a direct Unravelling attacks is lethal, but can be upgraded to aggravated by spending a point of Mana and one Reach.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:02
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Direct attack spells dealing (bashing/lethal/agg) (successes) or (arcanum+successes) damage vs. incidental effects like a car hitting your enemy dealing a DM-fiat type and amount of damage seems like the system working as designed to me.
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May 1, 2015 19:11
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It says that Sleepers can't witness magic even if they believe in it, but what does "witnessing magic" mean? Do the effects still take place if you tell them to turn around, instantly create a magnificent statue out of dirt, then have them turn back?
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May 4, 2015 06:13
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I say that if you've found a troupe of Vampire players who are actively avoiding backstabbing and killing the poo poo out of each other and derailing your plot , treasure them for now and contact the Smithsonian
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May 15, 2015 17:06
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Tulul posted:Wasn't the problem that there was this whole slant where writers were all "look at these motherfuckers responsible for the modern world! one of the major problems is the STEM dudes and I loving Love Science types, when looking at Mage, compare real-world technology to real-world "magic" and therefore take the Technocracy's side because real-world magic is ineffective and primitive and real-world technology is cool and useful. but this is a false way of looking at the fictional setting. somebody in the last thread said "Imagine a world without science as we know it. Go ahead - the technocracy vs. traditions is the Iphone versus carrier pigeons. It's a Barbecue Grill versus a firepit, Pills versus leeches and bleedings. They have made life better." but Technocracy vs. Traditions isn't "iphone vs. carrier pigeon." It's an iphone vs. some kind of crazy rear end VR device that has more functionality than an iphone plus is way cooler and lets you physically enter the internet and also probably isn't manufactured by industrial slaves. it's a barbeque grill vs. just cooking your meat instantly and perfectly every time by sprinkling a dash of powdered sulfur on it and speaking a bit of Latin. it's pills, vs. leeches and bleedings that cure cancer and HIV. in the end (and as a failing of oMage when you think about it) both the Technocracy and the Traditions are doing the exact same thing in different ways and both their means are equally true and effective, all other things being equal. the difference is that the Technocracy are dangerously delusional about what is it that they're doing, as well as being fascist elitists in a paranoid bureaucracy who use torture, brainwashing and murder as a matter of course, have built a violent, spiritually dead and inequal world, and cannot countenance the existence of other paradigms. (which, again, are all equally true, valid and effective, and this is known at higher levels of the leadership.) the Traditions and individuals within them have problems, even serious problems, but they are generally much more tolerant, open, free and multicultural and not openly dedicated to the destruction by any means of anyone who's different. that's the difference.
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May 21, 2015 02:33
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" and then every single reader immediately realized the modern world was actually kind of great, and that the Traditions didn't look so hot when part of their mission involves destroying modern medicine?
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Mors Rattus posted:Pretty much, yes, they seem to suffer from the belief that because they didn't ask for this or choose it, they have no culpability and no one has any right to be mad at them for being monstrous. It's toned down some from where it was in the leak, though. Aside from some minority of vampires, what player splat in the WoD asked to be what they are
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Jun 3, 2015 17:52
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It's abundantly clear from the book that the standard reason for Falling is accidental, or oblivious pushing too far. Even in cases of willful disobedience the reasoning is "I refuse to kill this baby" and not "I wish to become a Demon." By contrast there are people in Vampire literally begging to be vampires.
Tezzor fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 18:24
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If you're going to make a game where your PCs are supposed to be evil-but-not-really and their antagonists are bumbling dicks you need to have it be a somewhat comedic game and they need to have some good reason for being evil-but-not-really. It's fine in a comedic game when the villainous monster cackles as he flips all the good guy's circuit breakers while he is watching the Super Bowl, but it's extremely incongrous in a Serious Game Where I'm the Embodiment of Fear. like maybe they have to do little lovely evil acts to keep their Beast soul happy enough that it doesn't get loose and start tearing up the world. basically what i am saying is that the only way to fix Beast is to make it Better Angels
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Jun 9, 2015 02:53
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Loomer posted:I regularly play in a game where the entire idea is to be cartoonishly evil supervillains. Beast is still way too loving far even by my tremendously warped standards. You're not a cartoonishly evil supervillian, you're the petty dick at the DMV who gets off on denying Mexican-Americans driver's licenses
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Jun 9, 2015 06:09
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spectralent posted:the grand dragon of the KKK Beast character concept spotted
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Jun 9, 2015 06:23
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DJ Dizzy posted:5 matter, 5 mind. Its a fairly highpowered game. No nwod vampire with BP 8 or less can stand up against a decent 5 mind 5 matter mage so don't bother
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Jun 9, 2015 06:35
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Ferrinus posted:Can you explain what made 1E mages overpowered? I bet you can't. I bet you're just repeating yet another pernicious meme. This is pretty disingenuous. Sure, on an instant spell, a mage's mind control or life buff doesn't roll more dice, but as you acknowledge, the r ritual system breaks this in half. A starting mage can get +3 to all physical attributes for a month by spending a work day at it, while a werewolf gets +3/+1/+2 for five rounds, can't increase the numbers our the time and can't walk around in public with it. Even without the ritual system, with equal dot investment a vampire gets Dominate 3 and a mage gets Dominate 3, Majesty 3, Nightmare 5, Obfuscate 5, Auspex 4, Animalism 4, plus all kinds of stuff not even included in those disciplines like the ability to get +3 to all your social and mental stats, +3 armor, +3 to any skill, dream travel, +3 to mental resistance, etc, etc
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Jun 9, 2015 07:05
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Ferrinus posted:No, it doesn't. Mind 3 is more flexible but not more powerful than Dominate 3. It just doesn't create effects as pernicious or total, and it's highly limited in terms of how many of those effects it can sustain at once and how long those effects last. The incidental personal safety stuff like mage armor just makes up for the fact that mages take full damage from normal weapons and heal no faster than humans do. It is both more powerful and more flexible. A mage can heal faster than normal humans by spending Mana, although it's poor compared to any other splat. They also have no weaknesses. It's silly that you would even attempt to claim that mages are balanced against the other splats.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:08
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Ferrinus posted:Mages can heal one level of damage per day, climbing to an eventual four. I notice you can't gainsay anything I actually said about the very powers you brought up in your last post. Maybe you've realized how stupid it is to compare "Emotional Urging" to "Eye of the Beast"? Mages can heal one level of damage per day, unless they have Life 2, in which event they can heal (Successes) damage per 1 Magic Juice spent, instead of 1 for 1 as with other groups, and heal others in this way and Agg on themselves with Life 3. Emotional Urging by itself, let alone Mind 2 as a whole, is a far more flexible power than Eye of the Beast, and easily has the potential to have a stronger and/or longer-lasting effect if cast as a ritual, either on somebody tied up, or sympathetically with Space, or powered up and or then hung with Fate, either way for a minimal dot investment that gives tons of additional effects of its own. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 16:02
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Ferrinus posted:Oh, you've started bringing other Arcana in because you couldn't get your point about Mind to stick. Cool. According to Ferrinus 3E Fighters are balanced with Wizards because fighters are better at doing one thing, assuming no preparation or synergy
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Jun 9, 2015 16:55
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A mage with Mind 3 and nothing else faces a vampire with Nightmare 3 and nothing else. (The 0xp vampire has 3 dots total and the 0xp mage actually has some other Arcana at 2 and a third at 1, but hey.) Let's assume both have equal resistance stats, dicepools, no preparation, etc, are naked and weaponless, and both parties are acting optimally. Already at this point it's just a question of initiative rolls and luck on dice. If the vampire goes first he attempts to freeze the mage in fear. If the mage goes first he turns on Not-Obfuscate. The next turn the vampire would attempt to get the mage in a grapple and start sucking before the spell is broken, then it's a resisted grapple situation between two characters with equal and crappy physical stats (although the vampire can spend blood to buff stats so has some advantage). Or, if he went first the Mage would kick the vampire into Frenzy, then use telepathy to make him really mad at whatever furniture is nearby, then start blasting away with psychic bashing until he's torpored. Or, with a few hours notice, the mage could come in pre-Obfuscated, with his Composure bumped to 7 with the resulting benefit to mind-control resistance and Initiative, and an additional +3 resistance to mind control for good measure. Maybe +3 armor too if his Spell Tolerance is high enough.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:34
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Ferrinus posted:Not-Obfuscate is.... not Obfuscate. It does not force people to instantly ignore you who were focusing on you. You don't seem to understand that the subtle, surface-level effects generated by third level Mind magic don't have the explosive force or declarative power that third level Disciplines do. You also keep trying to sneak hours of cumulative pre-buffing back into the discussion as though it hadn't already been addressed. Incognito Presence makes it more difficult to notice or remember the caster. If you want to rule that someone actively viewing the caster isn't affected, then drop that step and just dump the vampire into fear frenzy. I keep bringing up pre-buffing because it's a very common and non-esoteric factor and you're attempting to claim splat balance by declaring the strongest aspect of one splat out of the discussion. Why not argue that humans are stronger than vampires as long as it isn't night?
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Jun 9, 2015 18:00
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Ferrinus posted:Oh? Oh, yeah? Drop the vampire into fear frenzy, i.e. replicate the effects of Nightmare 3 exactly? Which spell are you doing that with? I don't remember one in the corebook, or any other 3-or-lower spell in the corebook which sets the precedent. While we're at it, how about you figure out why I'm discounting buff-stacking in the course of claiming that vampire powers are dot-for-dot stronger and more convenient to use than mage powers. http://nwod.org/wiki/index.php/Provoke_Wrath Can trigger rage frenzy in a vampire, so fear frenzy for the same level seems reasonable. And yes, if we're going by this, Mind 3 can exactly replicate the effects of Nightmare 3. Unlike Nightmare 3, it can also do dozens of other things. As far as vampire powers "being dot-for-dot stronger and more convenient to use" than Mage powers, to keep it just within Nightmare, Nightmare 5 can for 1 Willpower cause lethal psychically. Mind 5 can cause lethal psychically for free, or agg for 1 Mana. In addition to that, it can also possess people, read and utterly dominate minds, read and rewrite personalities and memories, imprison someone in the Astral plane, create a mind, enter the Shadow, network minds together, get up to +5 in up to 6 attributes and/or 3-5 ranks in any skill or skills, paralyze, drain willpower, create hallucinations, decrease a target's mental or social attribute, turn off a target's senses, enter dreams, or make someone fall in love. And about a third of that is covert.
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Jun 9, 2015 20:40
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Ferrinus posted:There's no listed "provoke terror" spell, and forcing someone to attack you has very different balance considerations from forcing someone to flee you, so there's no reason to believe that it's also Mind 3 to force a vampire or werewolf into fear frenzy. For both monsters, fear frenzies are much more niche than anger frenzies - vampire anger frenzies explicitly trump vampire fear frenzies, and for werewolves the fear frenzy is a subset of the anger frenzy that only occurs under certain conditions. It's not even necessary to talk about rituals to explain the utility of getting up to a +5 on one of two-thirds of your attributes or 5 ranks in any skill. Even an instant spell doing either of these things with no preparation has a ton of utility. And I will continue to bring up buff stacking because the argument you made isn't "vampire powers are stronger than instant spells" it is "1E vampires were roughly balanced with 1E mages because vampire powers are stronger than instant spells." But having a singular ability that is slightly stronger than a similar singular ability isn't the whole equation. Thus the Wizard/Fighter analogy: At equal levels of optimization at mid levels, a full-attacking fighter is better at dealing hit point damage than a wizard. That is, however, all the Fighter can do, whereas the Wizard has the easy ability to make himself better, a vast selection of options, and the ability to optimize those options for any situation, and in fact can at higher levels be better at the one thing the fighter does than the fighter is. So the Fighter is a weaker class than the Wizard. The vampire with Nightmare 3 is really good at stunlocking a single person with a mind-affecting ability, but that's all he does, he can't easily get better at it (or anything/everything else) like the mage can, and at higher levels even the one thing he does is done better by the Mage. So the vampire is a weaker splat than the mage. This really can't be any clearer. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:48
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Adept Nightingale posted:I hate to break it to you, but you're just not going to win an argument with Ferrinus. You can rest assured he can deconstruct any argument you may care to make. I've already won this elfargument to the satisfaction of myself and anyone not too stubborn to admit he's taken an untenable position re: magic power levels. I still enjoy his posting, what a tragedy for him though
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Jun 9, 2015 23:57
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Xelkelvos posted:Go back to Hellthread. I've been posting in these threads at least as long if not long before you (difficult to remember as you invoking forums tribalism at me is the first post of yours I've ever noticed) and will continue to do so. Thank you for your concern
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Jun 10, 2015 07:44
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It's give to be harder than they think to remove the "beasts are like marginalized groups and heroes are like crazy bigots" angle because it's the only thing holding up the "beasts are the good guys" angle
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Jun 12, 2015 18:53
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Bellicose Buddha posted:Yeesh. They seem to have cut that back a lot. I read a recent preview and didn't get any of that from it. Seriously, that stuff sounds like things straight out of Old White Wolf, especially parts of Old Mage. Like how they tried to make the Technocracy the bad guys, when really they had a point, that reality warping holier-than-thou mofos and other supernatural beings are basically cancers on human civilization. The Technocracy are reality-warping holier-than-thou mofos and a cancer on human civilization to a greater extent than anyone in the oWoD other than the Nephandi. Actually they're much worse than the Nephandi when it comes to how holier-than-thou they are and how much they warp reality in practice if not intent.
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Jun 23, 2015 08:17
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On the subject of Tradition mages hating lightbulbs from a few pages back: why wouldn't they? Lightbulbs cost money and have to be bought in a store, probably a big box store that treats its employees poorly and which requires time and effort and gasoline to get to. Lightbulbs are fragile and finite by design. They can injure people if they break, or by falling or burning themselves when installing, or while stumbling around looking for a switch. Their parts are mined, they are produced in factories, go in landfills and require electricity, which all means they pollute. The fact that they run on electricity through a wire also means that massive numbers of people must be engaged in dangerous physical labor to keep them working, and they produce waste heat requiring even more pollution to re-cool the room, and they stop working by the millions due to something as stupid as a squirrel standing on a power line. Or you can just wave your hand and light up a room. That's just as possible and a lot less poisonous and labor-intensive. Don't be so attached to the scraps you've been thrown.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:59
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An Arrow lawyer isn't a bad concept but it should be an independent defense attorney scraping by because he keeps taking penniless clients. That's the easy fix.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:05
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I don't see how you could do the owod vampire post gehenna especially with a metaplot. The looming apocalypse is such a high stakes plot that nothing can top it. I guess you can shamble ahead with new enemies out of left field like every other scifi / fantasy franchise that for money went on beyond its natural coherent ending: death note, dbz, the star wars eu, terminator, Buffy, supernatural, etc
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Aug 2, 2015 08:44
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Jesus Christ, post civil war Beast. Signature character a southern gentleman who uses his powers to teach those northerners about freedom while eating runaway slaves and whining about how oppressed he is
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Aug 9, 2015 10:12
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Also keep in mind that the vampires/werewolves/mages/etc in your Hunter game don't have to exactly be the same vampires/werewolves/whatever that exist in their respective game lines. This is actually the default assumption of Hunter as a stand-alone game. So maybe vampires in your hunter game can't lick their wounds closed, or werewolves are just singular psychopaths who change at the full moon, or mages can't cast any magic without children's tears or something.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:30
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How long has magic been "out?" If it's been a while the Guardians of the Veil probably have a different name, at least. heh, more like Guardians of the Fail, says local idiot libertine
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Aug 27, 2015 00:41
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http://gizmodo.com/the-fembots-of-ashley-madison-1726670394 In the data dump of Ashley Madison’s internal emails, I found ample evidence that the company was actively paying people to create fake profiles. Sometimes they outsourced to companies who build fake profiles, like the ones Caitlin Dewey wrote about this week in the Washington Post. But many appear to have been generated by people working for Ashley Madison. The company even had a shorthand for these fake profiles—“angels.”
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Aug 28, 2015 15:16
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DJ Dizzy posted:Im thinking of having one as the personal manservant for one of my NPCs. Mages are also ageless in my game, because gently caress having unlimited power if you can only enjoy it for 40 years. You can achieve the continuation of your consciousness with Mind, Spirit, Life, Death and probably Fate at 5. Mages unworried about aging is less interesting than mages who need to cast a ritual monthly, hop from body to body, exist as Spirits, or suck life out of people, imo
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Oct 2, 2015 08:28
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As long as nMage2 comes out I'm happy.
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Oct 30, 2015 04:59
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Dammit Who? posted:The oMage book I took that from has a long intro sequence where a Virtual Adept and a Hollow One go around meeting representatives of the other Traditions, and the Virtual Adept keeps saying that he doesn't believe in politics or groups or taking a side, you know, and all the other Tradition guys are like "yes, exactly, it's good to not have politics or believe in things, not like us, we are stupid to have beliefs". I mean, you can really see why these dopes lost the war. isn't the entire reason the Traditions including the Virtual Adepts exist at all as discrete entities is that they believe in politics, groups and taking a side, and that they capital-B Believe in different things Tezzor fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 18:04
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nWoD is objectively better if you're not a grognard
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Dec 14, 2015 09:28
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