Killing Floor 2: Fleshpounds will beat your M.E.A.T.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Killing Floor 2: Fleshpounds will beat your M.E.A.T.

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Just took the Demo out for a solo round. Cluster grenade "pistol" is rad as can be. C4 isn't dropped at your feat it's hurled like a grenade, it's really a remote-detonated grenade and hits like a truck (2 takes out a Fleshpound on solo/normal, but that's 2 out of 3 that you carry, at least at level 0). Bloop-launcher is also pretty rad. Didn't get enough money to try out the RPG-7 since it was short. Funniest part was when I killed Hans after soloing (normal). Got him with a C4 that made his body/corpse float gently up above his own grenades that he just tossed...which made his gibs fly across the room.

Not sure what the perk of the dynamite is beyond eventually being able to carry/hurl a giant pile of them. So far though it looks like the Demo wants to keep his pistol at all time and never sell it for close-range/trash clearing work since your bloop-launcher has an arming distance. Also the grenade pistol seems to do the least damage to yourself when the explosion goes off in your face.

Edit: Oh, slight visual bug when Hans grabs you when using C4:

Suddenly my arm comes out of the top of my head.

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Aug 26, 2015

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 01:20

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:42

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Skoll posted:

So far I think the Trenchgun is pretty lovely. It's also super redundant to have the Chalk Gun and the Flamethrower, why didn't you just keep the Mac-10? Firebug seems kinda meh so far on first impression but I understand I'll need to be at least Level 15 for it to really shine. I think the Firebug should have a passive that makes any offperk weapon have a flaming bullet.

Trenchgun seemed to have a decent amount of punch against trash. He's very much a trash clearer. Also, don't just fire away with it, or with any firebug weapon. Just light a group on fire then stand back and let the tick damage do the work. If you fire away with any firebug weapon you'll just burn (heh) through ammo and do little to nothing.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 02:51

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Skoll posted:

No poo poo, Sherlock. I was more giving my first impression of the KF2 iteration, not asking how to play Firebug.

Like I said, the you need the level bonuses for it to really shine but early on it feels kind of painful. I don't think things like extending the Flamer range should have been locked behind loving level 20. In the first game it was Lv. 3 when you got the range extended, now you have to pretty much max the class out almost to get literally it's most useful attribute.

And I was saying I really didn't have the impression of weakness to me. Sure, it didn't hit nearly as hard as a Support shotgun, especially when the support had a few levels in him but I had no problem splattering an undamaged Siren's head at point blank while setting everyone behind her on fire with it.

Honestly my biggest problem right now is that the grenade launcher/pistol won't auto-reload if you interrupt the reloading. Since reloading can be cancelled so reliably now (finally, interrupting with grenades!) the single-shot weapons really should try to auto-reload like C4 does.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 03:15

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

DeusExMachinima posted:

Why won't it download for me? I even have it set to high-priority updates but I only see the 4 old perks when I start it and there's nothing in my downloads history for it.

Did you go into properties and set yourself to play the beta version?

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 03:44

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Abandoned Toaster posted:

Edit: And also the M79 ammo reserve is a bit low at 16 too. 24 rounds, same as KF1 is fair IMO. I know the Grenade Pistol is probably the reason it's been lowered, but you don't really want to be using pistols by the time you're getting tier 3 and 4 weapons. And having a perk to give ONE extra grenade to everyone per wave is a really weak skill, I'm sorry. I've never had a situation where I went "Oh thank god, an extra grenade". Considering that Support's version still gives you a whole clip FOR EVERY WEAPON YOU CARRY it's just way more useful, especially since it gave you a grenade anyways before this update. If the Demo skill filled everyone's grenades once per wave or gave 2 or 3 instead, maybe then it might be useful.

Honestly I think the explodo-pistol is the one case where the class really should keep the starter around even at high levels. The demo has incredibly limited ammo reserves all around, even compared to the nerfed Support. I mean, you start with 3 total C4. You need a relatively cheap gun for trash clearing when the big boys aren't around and it's either that or the 9mm (not that you shouldn't be making judicial use of the 9mm anyways). Not to mention that the M79 has a minimum arming distance so you need something for when enemies are getting in your face.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 05:24

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Yeah, the ammo nerfs were not needed or wanted at all. Ammo was scarce enough as is above normal. Now it seems that the Medic, Zerker and Firebug have a reasonable ammo supply while everyone else is left scrounging. I really hope that when this build leaves the "beta" the ammo changes are reverted for the most part. Everything else is great though.

For those who haven't had a chance to use Demoman yet, you're going to really, really need to use your 9mm. Your weapons are all horribly ammo limited. RPG and grenade launcher each have 16 shots, you get 3 bricks of C4 and your grenade pistol has 24 shots. On the plus side, Demo gets excellent ammo per box while everyone else seems to be nerfed (1/2/1/3 for RPG/GL/C4/Cluster Pistol). That being said the Demo relies very heavily on the 9mm (or dualies if you find one) to clear out single trash without wasting very expensive ammo. Trash in groups is your happy place though as a single grenade launcher shot can earn you 50-70 experience easy in a giant gib-fest.

My real biggest complaints with it are how hilariously heavy the RPG-7 are and how unreliable the cluster pistol can be. The RPG makes you give up more or less everything but your cluster pistol to wield, but it does so much damage it can be forgiven. Meanwhile the cluster-shot pistol is either hilariously effective (killing multiple trash at once) or hilariously ineffective (fails to kill a single clot/gorefast). Though I imagine that as a player gains levels and gets bonus damage the cluster pistol will lean more and more towards being really good.

Edit: Also love the new maps. I love how the airline is called Scanlines with their credit card being called Scanline Scanmiles.

"Get one free beer for every 10 beers drunk in flight!"
"Call now, get approved when Sven wakes up!"

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Aug 26, 2015

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 14:25

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Seriously guys, we had fun with the old ammo pickups. I'm sorry we were advancing through the weapon trees too fast for you devs, but we were having fun. I guess we weren't supposed to be having fun. :v:

Sarcasm over, the ammo changes compound upon each other and are a massive over-nerf and just not fun. I like what someone said about reverting the ammo changes but making ammo more expensive if you want to slow down how fast players progress through weapons. Right now though it feels like there's a very good chance that players just won't have enough for later waves.

On the plus side, I'm very, very pleased with how Hans was redone. Between the tips and the shield (that actually visibly reflects bullets) I've noticed a sudden and dramatic decline in people wasting their (now more valuable) ammo on his smoke phase.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 21:51

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Yeah, honestly I'd really not mind one bit if random weapon drops were removed and replaced with more ammo pickups. Right now it's basically "An off-perk weapon. Yay." *sell* If I wanted to play commando or support I'd go switch my perk so picking up a varmint rifle or pump-action really doesn't encourage me to "multiclass". The only one that interests me really is the second 9mm because right now dualies are good on all perks, especially demolitions, and give on-perk experience.

Also, I'm definitely noticing the Siren got a noticable buff with the weak/resistant point system. That cage they're welded into is very good at deflecting shots at their chest.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 22:58

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

closeted republican posted:

The way I look at it is if Tripwire wants you to use pistols, then I'll go Medic the first few waves and use a legit good pistol instead of trying to plink poo poo to death with the 9mm Pistol, like they seem to want.

Ditto. Doesn't hurt Medic's my favorite class. Honestly the 9mm should be bumped up to the med-pistol's level current. Medics will likely still prefer the med-pistol just for the darts and holosight.

If TW really wanted to differentiated it they could always make the med-pistol shoot slower but hit harder (still have the same/similar damage over time, just spread out over slower, heavier hitting shots).

# ¿ Aug 27, 2015 05:12

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Shumagorath posted:

Firebug weapon feedback now that I've hit level 5:

-The Caulk N Burn is a good starter weapon and nice for clearing out trash. It's hard to gauge the range at first but puff-and-run does well in waves where I really shouldn't be competitive with a tier-1 gun (i.e. after I've died). Its main drawback is that it's still Flamethrower Jr. and also only gets half a loving can from ammo pickups jesus christ almighty.

-The Trench Gun is actually worse for crowds and general trash clearing than the Caulk N Burn because it lacks the penetration of Support shotguns. I feel like I have much more trouble setting groups on fire with it and the only upside is the sorta-increased range. Having played mostly Support before the beta dropped it's lovely when I click something's head and it doesn't seem bothered the first time. I'm fine with having to score headshots but with 6/40 there's not enough to go around. I feel like this should be the tier 1 weapon or at least priced as such because it's not an upgrade or a downgrade but more of playstyle choice.

-The Flamethrower rules but needs its range boosted to whatever the perk bonus range is and that range needs to be that % gain again. It's also suffering a case of tier 4 envy where the Microwave gun is much, much better for killing the big zeds that show up by the time you can afford it, but unlike Support you can't even take a weight perk to carry them both.

-Microwave gun is great but I feel like I'm having a lot of trouble staying on-target due to the firing sway and obnoxious sight, which are both pointlessly aggravating. It's a tier 4 gun; please don't make it harder to hit those priority targets than it already is. Like the AA12 using it on trash is setting yourself up to get stomped by big zeds later so a weight reduction that lets me carry the flamethrower would be nice, but the others aren't terrible backup weapons.

...but the community is the absolute worst.

My thoughts:
-Caulk N Burn: Love it, feels just right playstyle wise. Drives me up the wall that it doesn't feel like a caulk gun though (even though it's got aerosol cans and not caulk cans in it). A single squeeze on the trigger lever should only put so much pressure/push so much fuel out of the cans. So in my head it should either squirt a short burst, or you should hear your character squeezing like mad, the over-worked, under-oiled hinge squeaking as your character gives him/herself a hand cramp. But that's just a visual/theme style issue for me, playstyle it's a very, very good weapon and makes Firebug one of the strongest characters when recovering from a death.

-Trenchgun: Makes an absolutely BEAUTIFUL fireball in dark areas. Don't treat this like a a shotgun, this is the the Firebug's long range weapon for when you want to ignite a couple dudes at a distance. Good for marking or for keeping distance. Basically treat it as your MAC-10.

-Flamethrower: Does what it says on the tin. Better range (slightly), damage and bigger "magazine" than the Caulk N Burn.

-Microwave Gun: TECHNO FLAMETHROWER! TIME TO COOK SOME ZED-MALLOWS! Other than the sway and busy sight (at least the center is clear and you're not going for pin-point accuracy) this thing is amazing in so many ways. I've been told it penetrates zeds too (like a flamethrower) but it's kinda hard to see the effects of your own gun (which is why it's hard to figure out flamethrower/caulk range).

# ¿ Aug 27, 2015 21:49

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Just had a demolitionist round where I picked up a caulk from a firebug who died on round one. Fire-Demo works really, really well. The cluster and grenade launchers were great for attacking long range stuff while the caulk and later flamethrower cleared up the short range stuff just fine, also gave me an out when sirens arrived. I made an amazing trash sweeper/assist dude

Of course the lack of single target "I need this big guy dead NOW!" utility of the C4 meant I was utterly screwed when a scrake and fleshpound aggroed on me out of the entire group. :v:

But yeah, Demo works best with an off-perk weapon it seems, or carrying a demo weapon on another perk (like Medic).

Rayjenkins posted:

Yeah I think that they should add an extra plume of flame alongside the pellets, almost like a puff from a flamethrower. The pellets are just a bonus if you want to reach out and hit something.

That would be so cool, like legit cool.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 01:28

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Psion posted:

I'm not 100% sure but the demo pistol might need a small buff, especially at low levels that thing is dishearteningly weak at times. It's not consistent though, which is ... odd. And at high levels it's never going to stand up to Hans or a big enemy. And I still can't make C4 work for me. So until/unless I can pack an M79 + RPG ... I dunno.

the level 20 perk choice is super ridiculous though. "have a piddling 10% for off-perk weapons" against "make all your demo weapons awesome-errrrrrr"

Yeah, the cluster launcher really does need a buff. Between it being unreliable, kinda week and how ammo-limited the Demo is it desperately needs some sort of buff. As is it feels like Demo just sits on his rear end, not doing any damage or earning experience until you see a big guy or a choice cluster It's really frustrating and boring, the antithesis of Firebug's running in and out while screaming "I'M DOING TINY BITS OF DAMAGE TO EEEVERYTHING!"

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 03:43

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

drrockso20 posted:

personally I don't like that, those kind of scenarios just lead to me getting stressed out as that's how my body processes long periods of dread and terror(part of the reason I never finished Dead Space 1 despite liking it for the most part)

Deadspace 1 was spooky? I just remember DS1 being "jumpscare theater". 2 was the one where they got some writers who could do more than just body horror and jump scares.

Anyways, I dunno if the lighting will get revamped but I'm pretty sure Catacombs is gonna get a bit of a revamp relatively quickly. Pubs have figured out there's a stairway they can camp and have all the enemies come at them from the front outside of a light dusting of clots and crawlers.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 05:42

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Honestly I'm just surprised that the Demo doesn't get a shotgun loaded with 12g frag rounds or something. I mean "yet another shotgun" is kinda silly but the demo desperately needs a trash killer for those moments between "Yay! Fleshpound! Hello juicy experience!" and "Hello giant horde!", but the cluster pistol doesn't really fill that role, at least not very well.

A few more level-up perks would be rather helpful as well though.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 05:50

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

dorkasaurus_rex posted:

Picking up a Lever Action Rifle on Wave 1 and using it throughout the entire game was like, KF1 ABCs. Picking up poo poo should definitely be a thing on wave 1. There's nothing that fills the LAR's slot just yet though.

Oh yeah, but in KF1 you were likely to get good weapons. Nothing extreme, but the LAR or hand cannon was the equivalent of a T2 or T3 weapon and incredibly solid even if it was off perk. Here though we get varmint rifles, heavy pump actions or krovels. Other kits starting gear. The LAR was only starting gear in KF1 after you ground out a few levels.

Honestly I'd like either we get no weapon drops in KF2 or we get T2 drops with the rare T3, then I'd seriously consider them something other than money pickups. Unfortunately that seems to go against Tripwire's current "vision".

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 06:08

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Questioner86 posted:

New preview patch going out for the weekend. Servers should be updating now and the client update will be out soon.

In the mean time you can chew on the change list: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=111868

Glad you're listening to us!

I look forward to what you do with Demo and Firebug. I'd say that Demo needs the most work but I'm pretty sure the work it needs is more structural than hammering out a few kinks so I'm not surprised to see firebug getting the first, minor patches. Honestly the only issue I have with the Firebug is that the Caulk N Burn needs to have its "feel" adjusted so it feels more like a jury-rigged weapon and less like a copy-paste of the flamethrower with smaller numbers.

Also...do the Support perks affect the Trenchgun in any way? It is a shotgun after all.

Drakes posted:

The microwave gun is the firebugs only decent option for frontloading damage and putting a dent into scrakes/fleshpounds. While its not ammo efficient like the flamethrower, it will contribute to downing the most threatening targets much more than the other firebug weapons.

The only reason I wouldn't run the microwave gun all the time is that it doesn't set guys on fire .

Actually, it does. Well, it gives them a fire-like DOT as it cooks them from the inside for a few seconds before they go splat. Just give little guys a small dose and let them finish cooking on their own, KF models real life where your "food" doesn't instantly stop cooking the moment you took it out of the microwave. :v:

So it still counts as "on fire" to the game as far as I can tell.

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Aug 28, 2015

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 22:23

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Drakes posted:

Well poo poo, the more you know.

Now I gotta level up firebug more and see if the flame specific perks have much effect on the MW gun.

Yea, I was honestly legit surprised when I noticed it. I use the MWG much like the Caulk/Flammenwerfer in short taps and I was noticing that the clots and gorefasts would continue exploding when I stopped firing for those bursts. So it still sets them on fire, it's just an invisible "on fire". You'll also notice them wobbling about in (fully understandable) pain/panic too as they puff up as well.

Now, the two normal flame weapons do have one advantage over the MWG: they actually leave burning patches on the ground that will set passing zeds on fire.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 23:40

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

I've also noticed that using the knife to defend at times is really important.

I was able to fend off Han's melee attacks by holding up my medic scalpel like it was some sort of talisman. It didn't leave me in the best condition but it's a lot better than being knocked out with a 1-2 punch like normal.

On a different note, from the fact that no one has mentioned anything about it I'm assuming the Trenchgun does not get any buff from Support skills?

# ¿ Aug 31, 2015 17:32

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Questioner86 posted:

I really like it when people play off-perk but we need to be careful that we don't make only certain perk combos attractive so that we can encourage people to try out new stuff rather than sticking to the stuff that's buffed by their current perk. Definitely something we'll experiment with in the future!

New preview update later today with some bug fixes that address some of the balance concerns I've seen in this thread. Grenade pistol isn't any good for demo? That might be because it wasn't applying the impact damage for the projectiles on-line. Whoops.

Anyway, updates are shrinking in size as we get closer to the release version of the patch but there are still a couple of nice fixes. Have fun!

You could always make it so that off-perk weapons get like bonuses but not at full strength. So the Support would get something like half of his perk bonuses (quietly adjusted here and there where needed but you tell the community "half") on all shotguns that aren't support shotguns. Also, woo! New update!

Nalesh posted:

You guys don't have to polish every single zed nut before showing us it while in early access, we want this as bug free on release as you do

Yeah, leave that to the fluffers, not the QA. :v:

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 03:11

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

So, I have to say I really dislike designing a class around specifically around carrying an off-perk weapon. the Demo's off-perk skill rubs me the wrong way, a class should have all the gear they need in their own class to hold their own, at least as long as they're with the group. Thankfully the HX cluster pistol buff/bugfix goes a long way in the right direction since now the demo pistol is actually really good.

All that being said, having a medic SMG or support shotgun as a backup makes it really damned fun/effective. While mutliclassing being the way the perk is designed does irk me, I feel it actually does work rather well with the Demo. The Demo weapons really are best used as a backup. So kudos to you Tripwire. I dislike the idea and yet enjoy the execution. Also love the gibs flying everywhere.

As a side note, I did notice that if you mutliclass and do damage to an enemy with two perks' weapons, it only displays you getting half XP. I'm assuming that you get XP for both perks, which means that the perk XP notification really should be updated so that it can have multiple perk experience notifications pop up at once.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 05:32

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Kill All Humans posted:

Played a couple hours of the new patch and berserker is the clear winner. Zweihander is the best and skills aren't dogshit. Firebug feels a bit weak at clearing trash, at least at low perk level, and demolitionist feels pretty useless.

Demolitionsits are best for Fleshpounds and that's about it. You really want an off-perk weapon after the first few waves just to help the team in between FPs showing up or when you see a convenient cluster of trash to vaporize. An off-perk weapon is doubly important since both Scrakes and Hans are highly resistant to explosives.

Edit: getting to level 5 and getting the explode-on-contact skill for your dynamite also really helps.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 01:27

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Nalesh posted:

It gets MUCH better when you get the dynamite skill at 5, it turns into this.

This is also the reason why I carry around C4 as a zerker.

widespread posted:

I can agree. It's the alternate method to get out of a Clot grab.

Yeah, the unstable dynamite really makes Demo a lot better, especially now that the cluster pistol is actually good.

Kill All Humans posted:

As demo I bought the healing pistol and smg and basically played like a poor man's medic while I was trying to save money for the grenade launcher. It just felt like I could have been more effective as any other class before I could afford the big guns. I guess I'm just comparing kf2 demo with kf1 demo where the perk was waaaay more effective because of all the chokepoints making low ammo explosive weapons much more useful.

I'll play firebug a bit more though. I can imagine it gets a lot better with perk levels.

The big issue with Demo is that it has no high ammo volume weapons. Literally everything is single shot. So you need to have an off-perk shotgun, SMG or AR of some sort. Not my favorite setup but it works well.

And yeah, Firebug gets really good once you get to level 5 as well. At that level firebug weapons all start with full ammo. No more having to hold back when you get $650 on the first round because if you did buy that T2 weapon wouldn't have enough ammo. So now just say "fuckit" and buy that trench gun and get max ammo right out the gate. Which means you "tech" up really fast as you're gonna grab that Microwave gun (with full batteries) the moment you get $1500, and also works with your starting Caulk.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 03:10

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Abandoned Toaster posted:

Messed around lately with Demo and RPG in regards to that video I posted a page or two back. If you can nail it and you have the ammo to spare Demo kills Scrakes really easily with a couple close-range dud rounds to the head. Like 2 on 6-player Normal and Hard, 3 on Suicidal and HoE. Plus I was only level 8. Still, I wouldn't make a habit of it.

Yeah but the RPG's the only weapon that's good against the Scrake just due to the sheer damage it has, and even then it's still rather mediocre against it and Hans. And the RPG is so goddamned heavy. I really wouldn't recommend using the RPG below level 5, when you get contact-fuse dynamite it becomes a lot more viable to have the massive RPG and then use the rest of your weight for an off-perk weapon like the medic SMG.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 04:31

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

QwertySanchez posted:

I think that the demo should get more grenades/dynamite, makes sense to me. plus throwing around dynamite is fun for some reason, I think it's watching it burn. Like the demo should almost use dynamite like it's an extra weapon rather than an emergency grenade. Give him one for every level He gains. Throw ~~grenades~~ dynamite like you hate them and they owe you money.

I was honestly surprised to find out that the "extra explosives" perk wasn't an extra grenade but instead +1 ammo/5 levels on all demo weapons. But once I tried out the contact fuse dynamite it made sense. The dynamite becomes a real beast of a weapon and it's like having 5 shots of short-ranged bloop gun no matter what in your pocket, having more than 5 would be hilariously unbalanced.

Section Z posted:

Oh dear, I suck at Hard again.

I feel like the CnB has a good thing going because I can lightly toast most trash, then resprinkle them if they don't die/nobody else kills them. But I keep panic wasting ammo on gorefasts who just keep right on swinging for example.

Still trying to get a feel for when I should just lightly sprinkle stuff with the CnB and rely on DoT to deal with my problems in a leisurely manner, or just saying gently caress it and unload practically half my CnB mag so something dies right off without a chance to hurt me, basically. Anything I'd have to ask that question is something the weapon switch times between my 9mm or knife would probably get me stabbed, if they are close enough to hit with the CnB in the first place (Gorefasts give zero fucks about being on fire. What a world when I'm worrying about gorefasts)

Not like the pistol and knife aren't seeing use on trash anyways. Carving up slashers is fun

I'm assuming it's just the low level (only just hit 5) that leaves me wondering sometimes if the Bloat isn't actually weak to fire, just flamethrowers. "Oh good the molotov splash torched them, now to deal with other problem-oh he's no longer on fire and puking on me".

Flamethrower is like roasting marshmallows with a jet engine though shame I can't have that and the microwave at the same time, since the flamethrower apparently is set to "Tickle" against fleshpounds.

I'm level 7 firebug and I feel that the CnB is wonderful for the whole "clear trash, generate a dozen assists" aspect but as you mention it's kind of expensive to secure the kill. It's amazing for both you and another player if you play together, you both get to save ammo and packs of trash just disappear. By yourself though it's really not all that great once you move past normal just for the amount of time or fuel it takes to kill trash. The more I play with it, as much as I love it I come to rely on (and love) the Trenchgun until I can replace my CnB with a flamethrower or microwave gun.

Speaking of which, I'm noticing the Trenchgun has a hilarious amount of stagger on it. Even at long ranges anything you hit that isn't listed as a "Big Zed" will stumble around when you nail them. The fireball on that gun is surprisingly cohesive at long ranges and it's great at loving with sirens and husks, stunlocking them until they finally die. I look forward to seeing how much stagger the Trenchgun has once I get the "point blank range shots will stagger zeds" skill.

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Sep 2, 2015

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 15:14

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Psion posted:

Hans' melee strikes should not take off 60 health, wounded status should not slow you down the way it does.

It's made worse by the combination: Hans hits you once, you're slow, you're now dead because you can't avoid strike number two. It prevents clutch saves (which are awesome) and it makes Hans' ridiculous melee even more powerful in context because one 60 hp strike essentially ends up being a player dying more often than not - and usually more often than not before the medic's darts can even travel from gun to player. Or even in non-Hans situations, the low health just means taking 50 damage is taking all the damage. What's the point of even having hitpoint values below 50 if they end up meaning almost nothing?

and with the health scaling he gets - which I also think is too high - it turns a 6 man suicidal into a drawn out, unfun slog of a bossfight which usually results in him just deciding to charge you faster than you can run, melee you so you're crippled, and then kill you. Repeat x6.

when Hans with 3-4 is both a more balanced fight and a more fun fight, something is hosed up.

ALSO: how can this game not keep track of ammo counts correctly? How in the gently caress is it still a bug that I will lose ammo at random times right in front of my eyes for having the raw nerve to, you know, pick up a weapon?

Yeah, Hans needs a lot of tuning. I understand the Dev frustration that a single guy taking 30 minutes can carefully kite him to death so they want Hans to have a huge spike damage to gently caress that single guy up. But the thing is the community doesn't want a boss that takes 30 minutes for the last survivor to kite because that's boring and frustrating for us. Especially when everyone had him under control except for his bullshit melee charge. Beating Hans shouldn't come down to a flowchart of "Do you have a zerker who can parry and Hans decides to attack him?" -> "Do you have a commando or medic who can kite forever and a book to read while he does it?" -> "Are you lucky?"

I think Hans's gas attack was a little over-nerfed (while I avoid it I have no fear of running through it now) and his melee attack was over-buffed. Meanwhile I know that pulling out a melee weapon and just holding down the block button does wonders for reducing HP but by the time I recognize that Hans is running for me, and have pulled out my scalpel Hans has likely already taken at least one swing (I really feel the backup knife's draw should be a lot faster by the way). And then once he's done with his first combo Hans's AI goes "Oh, there's a player within 5 meters, better melee attack!" more often than not, which repeats until the blocking player is dead.

Either Tripwire has to get used to having a boss that most teams can deal with 90% of the time or find some more clever way to buff him. Dying to an AI enemy who basically decided "this player dies!" and uses a nearly instant death attack is kinda bullshit and unfun. Dying almost any other way (generally due to a player fuckup) is part of the game and is can be fun in a way, dying to Hans's melee is bullshit and not fun ever.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 19:03

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

dorkasaurus_rex posted:

Reasons why demo is bad:

- no multi shot weapon

- not enough grenades/ammo overall

- weapons take too long to actually take out/reload in general

- the weapon sway when taking out the m79 means you consistently need to wait before being able to fire an accurate shot

- the Siren visual effect ends too early. It goes away but she'll still destroy your stuff for a few seconds thereafter

- C4 is complicated to use and often does more damage to you than to Zeds, and is utterly worthless nearby any Sirens.

- way, way, way more duds than in KF1. Its hard enough to actually get a shot off as this class. When it doesn't even actually explode on top of everything it's incredibly frustrating.

- m79 doesn't do enough damage against Fleshpounds (especially with the removal of grenade combos ) to be viable with the RPG

- RPG is fun but too heavy and again there's no way to kill poo poo right in front of you with it

Anyone can think of anything else? This class just seems slow and underpowered right now :/

Demo is a half class. You pretty much have to carry something else, shotgun/trenchgun/smg/AR/ANYTHING to go with your boom. The class does get massively better once you hit level five and your dynamite goes off on enemy contact and you get a WHOPPING +1 ammo to all demo weapons.

All of your points are entirely spot on though.

Tanreall posted:

All of the Demo's weapons besides C4 are worthless against Hans.

Edit: I feel like in a 7 wave match you go Berserker wave 1 and 2 then switch to Demo to kill FPs 3 through 6 and at 7 you switch to any class but Demo.

Nope, C4 is also worthless against Hans. Had a game where everyone piled money into the Demo who kept buying more and more C4 from the trader to toss down at a chokepoint. Must have bought about 20 bricks and tossed it in a single doorway. Didn't even manage to work through Hans's first phase. Was still hilarious to watch the explosions eat my framerate at least.

Oh, yeah, a player can totally place as many bricks as he can buy, you're just limited to how much you can also carry if you don't have a trader pod to buy more from. Game lets you toss down 10-20 C4 no problem if you have the dosh and time to keep buying more.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2015 21:03

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

LuciferMorningstar posted:

Each subsequent C4 explosion an enemy takes within a 3s window has its power reduced by 50%. Thus, the third one does 25% damage, the fourth 12.5%, etc. If you want to maximize your C4 damage, stick them all to Hans and then detonate one every 3 seconds.

Well, that explains everything in a magnificently stupid way.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2015 21:35

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Psion posted:

yeah don't get me wrong, I like demo and I like the idea of demo, but it's the weakest class against trash and it's not as good of a boss killer as it should be to compensate. IMO it needs to be better against trash regardless, really, but it's not as pound-murderingly awesome as it should be to balance out Firebug's ultimate trash killing + scrake microwaving power. Give the demo some better ability against trash which does not always bunch up (or when it does, it tends to bunch in linear fashion) and it'll be a lot more reasonable.

right now it's not even - arguably - balance. It's boring! Boring to stand on a piece of geometry for a good angle and just wait for a boss or big enough cluster of enemies that your firebug, zerker, or commando aren't just slaughtering in bulk lots. For a class which is all about awesome explosions I just don't even get it.

anyway, gif patrol.

physics vs chair
firebug owns
firebug zed time owns
owns a lot
seriously
it really does

Actually, the Demo is incredibly strong against trash. It's just also incredibly expensive to use against trash. Now it does become less expensive as every 5 levels you get a whopping whole extra shot added to your ammo caps, but it's still way to expensive even it is hilarious to watch an entire wave of trash get vaporized.

Honestly, my biggest problems with demo are:
-every single weapon is single shot, there is no variance
-loving IDIOTIC C4 NERF
-cluster pistol is incredibly unreliable. It's either amazing or poo poo, very little middle ground.
-hilariously weak against the only boss we have so far.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 04:39

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Nalesh posted:

Maybe put a tooltip on the screen saying what killed you and how to avoid it, like:

[gas grenade] Avoid the gas that Volter throws, it does large amounts of damage over time.
[frag grenade] Watch out for Volter's frag grenades, they do large amounts of damage.

etc

"Seriously guys, we marked his grenades with bright, blinking icons. Don't stand on them."

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 08:52

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

She Bangs the Drums posted:

because shooting the ground and killing 1d6 of them with splash damage is cool.

Slight edit for accuracy.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 01:58

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Klaus88 posted:

Just tired out the game and this game has the best soundtrack for manz murdering ever conceived by man.

I'm gonna let you continue and all but...

Coolguye posted:

go play payday 2 son

The tracks that Tripwire chose are indeed excellent picks but nothing compared to Simund Viklund's various odes to Cop Genocide. By the way, have you tried turning on the lyrics? :v:

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 03:50

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

It's the music I set for every single level and a guy I play with just doesn't understand and that bums me out.

Well I agree with him.

You should mix in some Super Sledge, and Big Bank should always be Ode to Greed since that song was made for that level. Gotta have variety.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 04:19

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Demo pistol should have been a gyrojet pistol, a modern version of those awkward days in the 50s/60s when we tried slapping rockets onto everything.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 14:32

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Klaus88 posted:

Aren't Bolters more of an automatic grenade launcher? As in the mechanism is basically that of a really big bullet in the chamber with an explosive warhead? Basically a fully-auto bloop launcher.

A gyrojet would be more like a pistol version of an RPG, with a rocket inside a large-caliber pistol shell. No initial impulse. Everyone experimented with them in the crazy days of the 50s/60s when rockets and jets were the big new thing and had to be put into everything (build a car with a jet engine in it, melt anyone riding your bumper with the exhaust!). They were found to be hilariously expensive, inaccurate and had really weird ballistics compared to standard projectiles that everyone was used to since the projectile left the gun at such a slow velocity and then accelerated en-route. In short the perfect wonky videogame weapon. Also you could have it be semi-auto with 4-5 shots each so the Demo at least has a single weapon that has more than one shot/reload.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 15:39

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Zomborgon posted:

It brought me great joy when I finally learned how to dodge them, so now it seems a little too easy.

That said, if one manages to get in close on suicidal+, you're potentially hosed.

I find that other environmental effects are much more dangerous than a lack of doors. The catacombs map has a few good hold-out spots, but the steady decrease in light sources can be really bad for spotting zeds. Firebug flares are pretty great for help with that problem, but otherwise, it's time to move on to the next spot.

The problem is as much as I want to love the firebug flares, the other level 5 perk is so much better it's not even funny. At least at lower levels. Once the firebug gets a few levels under his belt to get 5/10/15/20/25% extra starting ammo with weapons then Flareatovs look a lot more competitive.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2015 20:10

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Inzombiac posted:

Are the Firebug and Demo in live now?

Yes. Despite what it may say on Steam the Beta actually ended and was rolled back into Live. So everything in the Beta is now Live.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2015 21:28

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Nalesh posted:

Do the fire perks affect the micro? (Like fire stays around longer, fire spreads to nearby zeds etc)

As far as I know they do. People have posted gifs in this thread of the MWG causing the detonation skill to activate.

Also, am I the only one amused by the fact that the Caulk/Flamethrower can get headshots? They don't seem to do any additional damage but if you can pop the heads of trash.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 06:24

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Things KF2 needs:
-KF1 Trader as playable character
-Solaire's Armor skin for the LARPer

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 22:02

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

These are both very important things. Please make them a priority, TWI.

May have to have a conversation with FROM. Though if they end up with a character voiced entirely for whoever did Solaire's voice in DS1 that would be hilarious and fantastic in so many ways.

Payday and L4D characters would also be appreciated. I doubt those are hard to get since Payday 2 literally has Keanu Reeve's body as a playable character (Simon Viklund had to do the voices) and apparently takes place in both the same universe as John Wick and L4D (Payday 1 had a Mercy Hospital level). The latter, well KF2's already on steam, and L4D characters tend to spread out to just about any zombie shooter on Steam if you just ask politely. I mean, they're even playable in RE6's Mercenaries gamemode.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 23:20

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:42

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Drakes posted:

I feel the problem is that its way harder to deal with melee damage now, FP will now zerk on forever and Han's melee combo seems more damaging/aggressive.

Yeah, that's the real problem I have. Right now I play with pubbies and so many teams melt as soon as the big guys show up. Even if they all turn their attention on a Scrake or FP that it's really easy to lose 1-2 players, which is then really easy to snowball. The big guys just do so much damage and you can't get htem off of you if you're not a Zerker. I've done my best to block them with the knife, but even on Hard a Scrake or FP will just chew through my armor/HP almost as fast as Hans. I mean, it does make sense that a puny knife isn't going to stop a chainsaw, but it doesn't feel very good gameplay-wise for the game to just steamroll me unless I play the ONE TRUE CLASS.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 00:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Killing Floor 2: Fleshpounds will beat your M.E.A.T.

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