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Hey BFC. I'm making a thread here so I have to justify my financial decisions to a bunch of anonymous strangers who won't listen to my dumb excuses. Also my family's really bad with money so I can't go to them for decent advice. Here's my current situation: I'm 25, living in NYC with my family, and making about $3,000 a month as a programmer. I finished paying off all my student loans in February  , and I don't have any other debt. I want to move out soon. I'm setting June 1st as my move-out date, to keep me to this plan. Here's the steps I wanna take in preparation for moving out:
I've been budgeting for about 9 months now (end of last July) with YNAB, and it's been pretty useful at making me understand where my money is going. Here's my projected monthly budget for living alone: code: Everyday Expenses breakdown:  Some notes:
Other money worth noting: code:
I know that was a lot of  , but it'd be awesome if y'all could tell me what I'm right on and where I don't know jack poo poo.
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May 3, 2015 20:24
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) for the last 10 years, so I'm basically an out of towner. Right now I'm looking at Bay Ridge. It seems affordable enough; there's 
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quote:living in NYC quote:making about $3,000 a month as a programmer. Haven't read the rest of your post yet, my eyes bulged out of my head after reading that far. 36k would be a crappy wage for a programmer in Nowheresville, in NYC it's practically highway robbery. Unless this is your first job as a coder and you have < 1 years' experience, I'd say drop everything and start looking for a new gig immediately.
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May 3, 2015 22:41
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Cicero posted:WHAT. Oh yeah, I'm fully aware of how low it is. My current employers are... pretty far from a tech firm. I didn't have anything lined up when I graduated in 2012, so I took the first offer I got out of desperation. But my family life kinda sucks for all sorts of reasons, and I think it'd be better for my mental health to gtfo and be on my own. For what it's worth, my therapist is with me on that front. My job pays like poo poo for the field, but it's ultra low stress and ultra stable. Good news on the job front, though. A Google recruiter emailed me last week! My plan's to ask them for 4-6 weeks to prep, and spend an hour or two every evening working through my old algorithms textbook (more on weekends ofc). If I don't get an offer from them this time, at least I'll be super ready for interviews at other places.
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May 3, 2015 22:57
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Cicero posted:WHAT. The 3k/month is take home, post federal/state/city/FICA/401k/health premiums, right? So it's an actual salary somewhere around 60k. Maybe not great, but not ludicrous.
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May 3, 2015 23:11
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null gallagher posted:I know that was a lot of Edit: Also, are you counting clothes in spending money? You were spending ~$40/mo on clothes over the last year and I don't see that in the budget anywhere. junidog posted:The 3k/month is take home, post federal/state/city/FICA/401k/health premiums, right? So it's an actual salary somewhere around 60k. Maybe not great, but not ludicrous. Cuddlebottom fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 23:12
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junidog posted:The 3k/month is take home, post federal/state/city/FICA/401k/health premiums, right? So it's an actual salary somewhere around 60k. Maybe not great, but not ludicrous. Yup, that's right. Cuddlebottom posted:I saw that you have cash for the security deposit, but you haven't accounted for the first month's rent and (if you're like most of us unfortunate souls in NYC), a broker's fee. Do you have any contacts in neighborhoods you're interested in that you can milk for information about available apartments? A broker's fee would probably cut into your emergency fund, and rebuilding that would cut substantially into your budget. Broker's fee + first month's rent - you're right, I didn't count it, and the potential emergency fund hit there is something that's stressing me out. Most of my friends are either living at home and don't plan on moving out anytime soon (at least with a roommate), or are living in neighborhoods way too expensive for me even if I was making twice my current salary (like the West Village). I'm going to look into contacting management companies for apartment buildings in neighborhoods I like and can afford. I don't remember where exactly I heard that advice, but it sounds reasonable enough to me. Is it? Clothes - yup, counted in spending cash. I don't foresee any big purchases there - last thing I bought was a new shirt like two months ago, since I didn't have any white shirts to wear to my friend's wedding. And does the salary talk still apply for non-startups? I got an offer from a startup last year, but declined it. One of their engineers (they had 2 or 3) was like "yeah! I love working here! Some days I'm in until 10 or 11 at night just refactoring our codebase!", and I went  and politely declined. I work at a huge, super bureaucratic company, so it's pretty slow and low stress. On the other hand, pay sucks and I'm worried that if I stay here for too long, my skills and knowledge will be very out of date.
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May 3, 2015 23:32
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edit: Actually, this is the type of thing you talk to a therapist about.
null gallagher fucked around with this message at 00:26 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 00:15
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You're really getting hosed, I know entry level programmers who didn't finish college who are making 90k in NYC. No wonder this millennial generation is all despondent and living in their parent's basements, they are willing to let people gently caress them in the rear end for years on end. Like you could make more money waiting tables at the worst food service poo poo job place like Applebee's or some poo poo, like why why why would anyone allow themselves to be exploited like this. Christ it makes me mad. Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 00:53 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 00:50
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null gallagher posted:And does the salary talk still apply for non-startups? I got an offer from a startup last year, but declined it. One of their engineers (they had 2 or 3) was like "yeah! I love working here! Some days I'm in until 10 or 11 at night just refactoring our codebase!", and I went
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May 4, 2015 02:29
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null gallagher posted:Broker's fee + first month's rent - you're right, I didn't count it, and the potential emergency fund hit there is something that's stressing me out. Most of my friends are either living at home and don't plan on moving out anytime soon (at least with a roommate), or are living in neighborhoods way too expensive for me even if I was making twice my current salary (like the West Village). I'm going to look into contacting management companies for apartment buildings in neighborhoods I like and can afford. I don't remember where exactly I heard that advice, but it sounds reasonable enough to me. Is it? Yes, it does - Glassdoor puts the average salary in NYC for a junior software engineer at 70k, software engineer at 80k, and senior software engineer at 100k. I would actually expect a very small startup to pay worse, not better, because they compensate with equity. At a big company like Google it's going to be much more than average, more like $120k.
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May 4, 2015 13:41
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Junior engineers at Google actually make substantially more than that if you include RSUs and bonuses. Selling yourself to Big Software is pretty good with money. Those numbers in general sound very low to me. A senior software engineer in NYC should be able to easily make more than 100k. Cicero fucked around with this message at 14:22 on May 4, 2015 |
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May 4, 2015 14:17
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Senior software engineers in Chicago average around 110k, and salaries are way, way higher in NYC.
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May 4, 2015 15:10
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Just gonna pile on -- you're being drastically underpaid. Start job hunting yesterday.
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May 4, 2015 15:17
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everyone posted:You're underpaid as poo poo. I was hanging out with one of my friends last night and salary came up, and he went "holy poo poo how is someone like you making so little money as a software engineer?" That plus you guys has convinced me I should find a new job ASAP. I signed up for Hired last night, and I'll be posting my resume in the resume thread here and CoC later. I'll go through the LinkedIn thread to fancy up my profile there so I can get this poo poo on the road. Thanks guys!
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May 5, 2015 16:16
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null gallagher posted:I was hanging out with one of my friends last night and salary came up, and he went "holy poo poo how is someone like you making so little money as a software engineer?" That plus you guys has convinced me I should find a new job ASAP. Stack Overflow Careers is a really good place to start a search as well.
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May 5, 2015 16:28
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Please review the last 5 days of KG's thread for some good tips about interviewing
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May 5, 2015 17:38
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lord1234 posted:Please review the last 5 days of KG's thread for some good tips about interviewing That was enlightening. I've gotten burned a few times by telling recruiters my actual salary. I gave them the actual number and they'd say "well, you're not going to get much higher than $75K", and that's a big reason I thought I couldn't get higher pay - pretty stupid looking back, but that's why I'm here. Now I usually say something like "I'm sure your clients offer a competitive salary. I'm more concerned about the actual team and office atmosphere." Knyteguy posted:Stack Overflow Careers is a really good place to start a search as well. I've heard great things about SO Careers, but I don't have enough GitHub or Stack Overflow activity to merit an invite - if you have one I'll post an email address and buy you a drink or something if we're ever in the same area. Since it's been a few days since I last posted here's what I've done in the last few days: Bought a copy of Cracking the Coding Interview. I'm reading it in the evenings; it's a little hard to give it enough focus on public transit. I talked to someone at Hired today. They said that I should set my desired salary at 120K - holy poo poo! With that kind of salary I could afford a really nice 1br in my ideal NYC neigbhorhood (Park Slope), save, and still have plenty of money to waste guilt-free on frivolous poo poo. So that's been a major confidence boost. I've set up a few phone calls with other recruiters. No idea why, but I've been getting ~3 emails a day from recruiters for the last few days. One was a contract position so I said no thanks, and another was in Hoboken, NJ so I said I'd be interested in any of their clients in NYC proper. I've got a phone call with that one tomorrow. And I posted my resume in the CoC newbie jobs thread. I feel like things are moving along on the "not being horrifically underpaid" front!
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May 8, 2015 00:26
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Start following this thread, there is some great info in here regarding the mindset you need when salary comes up. Dwight Eisenhower specifically has good advice among others. This thread is also worth following if you're on the job hunt.
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May 8, 2015 17:07
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Saint Fu posted:Start following this thread, there is some great info in here regarding the mindset you need when salary comes up. Dwight Eisenhower specifically has good advice among others. This thread is also worth following if you're on the job hunt. I've been reading through those on my commute. I think I might actually print out some of Dwight's posts in the negotiation thread and have them on hand when I talk to recruiters. He has some incredibly good advice. Holding out on the salary question and ending up at a place that'd give me 120K just sounds objectively smart. I got two offers on Hired today, both sounded pretty interesting, and both offering $120K - twice what I'm currently making, holy poo poo. I'll be talking to one of them tomorrow for a first round personality interview. I'm also gonna be talking to a few recruiters tomorrow. It seems like I could have a new job that pays twice as much, or close to it, within a month or two. That's a hell of a motivator for studying for tech interviews. One question though. A few of the companies I've seen listed on Hired's site claim they have "unlimited vacation time". How does that typically work?
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May 12, 2015 05:17
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null gallagher posted:One question though. A few of the companies I've seen listed on Hired's site claim they have "unlimited vacation time". How does that typically work? Generally it's a "Don't be an idiot" policy. Would taking a few days off make you more productive? Go for it. Want to take four weeks off at once? Not the best idea unless you have lots of tenure. Don't even take 2 weeks off back to back until you know you're in good shape there. Don't take days off during crunch time. Don't take several days off right after you start working there. Don't take a day off every week. Some places will still require your PTO requests to be approved by your manager, who will make sure his/her team isn't hamstrung by everyone taking PTO all at once and ensures you aren't crossing any lines. Other places will just want you to drop a note in the payroll system when you take time off but won't need anyone to approve it. In all cases, there's likely someone in HR tracking the PTO, so don't go overboard. In exchange, you'll need to be willing to work late and/or on weekends sometimes. Places with unlimited vacation time are the kinds of places where you go home when you've reached a good stopping point, not when the clock hits 5. The idea is that they're paying you to get a job done, not paying you to be in a chair for 8 hours a day.
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May 13, 2015 03:48
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FYI people ignored your request for resume criticism in the newbie coding jobs thread because your post was low-effort. For that kind of thing you have to make people feel like you've put some thought into it first, so talk about your background, what you're looking for, what you're worried about, etc. and then people will respond.
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May 14, 2015 04:03
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Zanthia posted:Generally it's a "Don't be an idiot" policy. Would taking a few days off make you more productive? Go for it. Want to take four weeks off at once? Not the best idea unless you have lots of tenure. Don't even take 2 weeks off back to back until you know you're in good shape there. Don't take days off during crunch time. Don't take several days off right after you start working there. Don't take a day off every week. I only used up half my PTO from last year because I took the last 9 work days off. I'm not the type to abuse that sort of thing, especially not at a new company where I'm trying to make a good impression. It doesn't sound like it'd make or break an offer to me. Cicero posted:FYI people ignored your request for resume criticism in the newbie coding jobs thread because your post was low-effort. For that kind of thing you have to make people feel like you've put some thought into it first, so talk about your background, what you're looking for, what you're worried about, etc. and then people will respond. Makes sense. I'll revise and repost with some more details on where my career's at and where I want to take it tomorrow or Friday. Yesterday I talked to a few more recruiters. Didn't give my salary to any of them. They all seemed okay with "My employer has asked me not to discuss salary, but I'd accept an offer of $120K without question because XYZ" (mostly Hired and a company I declined an offer with last year because it turned out they were moving to NJ). Today, I had a phone call with the CTO of a financial startup in Manhattan. I definitely hit it off with the guy; he was planning on quizzing me on Java a bit but we ran over time bullshitting about programming and random stuff. He sent me a little coding challenge to finish this evening, and I knocked that out without any problems. I'm feeling pretty good about that, and I've got another phone interview tomorrow. One of the other recruiters definitely has leads. Another one seems hell bent on trying to convince me to look at the NJ company again, which I'm not sure is even allowed since I got my interview there last year through another recruiting firm. I'm feeling pretty good about my chances at getting a new job and a sweet raise in the next month or so!
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May 14, 2015 04:32
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null gallagher posted:which I'm not sure is even allowed since I got my interview there last year through another recruiting firm. I'm feeling pretty good about my chances at getting a new job and a sweet raise in the next month or so! 1 year is plenty of time for any non-compete or non-reinterview contract to expire...typically those are 3 months.
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May 14, 2015 13:15
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lord1234 posted:1 year is plenty of time for any non-compete or non-reinterview contract to expire...typically those are 3 months. Awesome, I'll remember that for the future. Right now though I've got zero reason or desire to switch to another job in NJ. Paying income tax to two states would suck, and if I moved to Jersey I'd be going back to NYC all the time anyway since all my friends live in the city. I can't imagine that I'm ruling a whole lot out of opportunities out by saying "I'm only interested in positions in Manhattan and Brooklyn."
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May 14, 2015 15:29
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Zanthia posted:Generally it's a "Don't be an idiot" policy. Would taking a few days off make you more productive? Go for it. Want to take four weeks off at once? Not the best idea unless you have lots of tenure. Don't even take 2 weeks off back to back until you know you're in good shape there. Don't take days off during crunch time. Don't take several days off right after you start working there. Don't take a day off every week. AKA you pay in guilty looks (you can go on vacation any time you want....why would you want to?) to go on vacation - I hate this poo poo. I would love to see a published average amount of time taken by employees at various companies, especially ones who have this policy.
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May 14, 2015 16:22
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NYT wrote a little bit about this when Virgin did this last year.
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May 14, 2015 16:37
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I always think the unlimited vacation, besides the problems already mentioned, is a clever way for companies to get out of having to pay out accrued vacation when someone leaves the company. I've probably got 3-4 weeks of vacation banked right now, and it's nice to know that would be added on to my severance if I got laid off (again).
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May 14, 2015 19:46
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I have the worst of both worlds - an annual use-it-or-lose-it unbankable set of vacation days. On the other hand, between vacation and fixed days off, I think I get 31 days off, which isn't bad.
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May 14, 2015 22:36
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I have the worst of both worlds - an annual use-it-or-lose-it unbankable set of vacation days. At my company, you accumulate PTO each month, but have your entire year's worth available starting Jan 1. Pretty sure it's set up so people can't take the first two weeks of the year off for a job hunt or something, then quit and get a paycheck for the rest of the year's PTO. They're pretty liberal with PTO (I got something like 22 days this year), so it's not too bad. Except the pay  I've got a face to face set up with the startup I talked to yesterday, and one of my friends' employers has an opening I'm interested in, so we're going to set up a phone call. Since he wouldn't be my boss (he's in sales) and he told me the pay range will at least match company 1's, I'd take his company if I get offers from both. Shouldn't be a problem asking company 1 for more time - say, a week - to interview with company 2 and make a decision, right?
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May 14, 2015 23:00
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Well I didn't repost my resume in CoC yet, but I'm still getting tons of hits. Right now here's where I am: One interview's already scheduled for this week, with a financial startup. I really liked the CTO when we talked, and it seems pretty cool. Recruiter says they're offering ~100K (that might actually be the max), with no 401(k) in place yet. Because of that I'll probably be holding on to see what any other places offer. I've spoke to three other companies that gave me programming challenges. Two of them say they'll take an hour or so to finish, the other one "a week or so". That sounds pretty insane to me, and I'm thinking of politely declining - is that unreasonable? Doesn't sound it to me. I'm also waiting to hear back from my friend's company. Inside info from him is that they'll probably offer around 105-110K with pretty solid benefits and upward mobility. Him really liking it is a big positive to me, and has me favoring it over just about anyone else that's contacted me. We'll see - I sent my stuff to him Thursday night so there really hasn't been much time.
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May 17, 2015 22:58
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null gallagher posted:...the other one "a week or so". That sounds pretty insane to me, and I'm thinking of politely declining - is that unreasonable? Doesn't sound it to me. I'd just wait and see what it is. If it's actually a week's worth of work, and not just a "get back to us within a week", then yes, it's quite unreasonable.
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May 18, 2015 00:26
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baquerd posted:I'd just wait and see what it is. If it's actually a week's worth of work, and not just a "get back to us within a week", then yes, it's quite unreasonable. It was more like "it's supposed to be really hard and we expect it to take around a week, if it's gonna take more than that please let us know", actually. I'm totally fine with giving up an evening for a coding test, but that's a bit much. Anyway that doesn't matter anymore, because I got an offer!  $100K at a financial startup in Manhattan. I'd liked to have gotten a few other offers, but none of the other places I've talked to are ready to make an offer yet. So it looks like I'll be going with this place, but I'm totally fine with that. They're profitable, giving me more than 50% more than what I make right now, and it's a shorter commute! And I really liked everyone I talked to at this place.Just one thing's left. References. They want a few coworkers as references, but my current job's my first real professional job. What's the best way to handle this? There are a few people who used to work on my team I can ask, and one of them used to be my manager, so that should suffice. I'm planning on asking them face to face when we're back in the office Tuesday, since they all still work in my building. Is it likely that they're going to ask what I'm currently making and decrease what they're offering, or is that paranoid poo poo?
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May 25, 2015 06:59
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null gallagher posted:Anyway that doesn't matter anymore, because I got an offer! That sounds pretty unlikely. Do you have their offered salary in writing?
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May 26, 2015 03:03
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null gallagher posted:I got an offer!
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May 26, 2015 03:54
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