LeoMarr posted:Yes because increasing the minimum wage of the country is good because it helps those who are employed. Awesome. so our unemployment number continues to increase slowly, but that's okay because everyone who is employed is living the 15 dollar an hour dream. are you just posting youtube comments?
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May 5, 2015 14:06
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on the left posted:If we up the minimum wage, can we at least drastically open up immigration so that immigrant-run service businesses can keep costs down by effectively working their entire family for $4 an hour or less? sorry your dad doesn't get to keep his personal landscaping crew
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May 5, 2015 14:07
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wateroverfire posted:If your goal is economic and social collapse, sure. lol
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May 6, 2015 15:10
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wateroverfire posted:If you nationalize their estates the first thing that will happen is the value of all those assets will crash and you'll be left with a mishmash of physical property you can't even find people to operate effectively, much less a liquid sum you can redistribute. It'd be horribly inflationary but you're better off just printing $500,000 per person and sending them a pallet of $1 bills. oh no mansion prices are plummeting! google's worthless without it's billionaire leaders! lol if you think any significant portion of wealth is tied up in a "mishmash of physical property" for sucking the dick of the rich in this thread you really don't know much about being rich do you?
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May 6, 2015 15:25
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look archangel is there ANYTHING I can say that allows me to take the moral high ground AND still lets my dad pay his employees like poo poo?
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May 6, 2015 15:27
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They can't spend or invest their money because they've bought a "mishmash of physical property" to hold their wealthwateroverfire posted:Spoken like someone barely smart enough to be angry but not nearly smart enough to be successful. 
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May 6, 2015 15:30
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What's the rate of return on a mishmash of physical property or do you have to have a Goldman broker to buy in?
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May 6, 2015 15:31
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wateroverfire posted:In the like past 5 minutes of posting I made maybe $200. spoken like a true poor person $200? lol you'd have to pay me at least a few orders of magnitude more to post the poo poo you have
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May 6, 2015 15:34
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asdf32 posted:Buddy I siad it does transfer wealth. Just badly compared to taxing and spending. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
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May 6, 2015 15:41
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Gravel Gravy posted:The idea existed that if you wanted a good job you had to go to law school, no matter your profession or interest law degrees are useful. That bubble burst pretty hard. oh god won't someone think of the poor lawyers student loan debt is pretty low on the list of real problems we have in this country and it's really immature to bring it up in a discussion about the minimum wage
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May 6, 2015 18:27
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Gravel Gravy posted:Pipe down, Rufio. euphronius posted:its actually a huge problem, just not a huge problem for poor people I guess. its a reall problem though because it is a huge drag on the economy. i'm not saying it isn't real, just that ensuring a living wage is provided for working americans is much more important, alongside a host of other issues i'm sorry but whining about student loan debt just makes you seem self-interested and quite frankly, it's a pretty stable situation at the moment
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May 6, 2015 18:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i dont have student loan debt and i think the whole situation with it is mad hosed up. what now? i'm in the same boat but quite frankly I think there are more important priorities, like providing a living wage to working americans, housing the homeless, ramping up mental health support, UHC, drawdown of military action, etc
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May 6, 2015 18:36
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wateroverfire posted:It's about husbanding scarce resources. Even if it's a long term proposition, social spending should have some kind of return. how about the peace of mind knowing that your fellow countrymen aren't going to suffer(or at least that it will be minimized) because of things outside of their control
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May 6, 2015 18:43
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wateroverfire posted:The thing is, if your social spending doesn't pay back on some timescale you're literally less able to face problems with every new investment cycle than you could have been. good point, lets start using disabled people as fuel
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May 6, 2015 18:47
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Geriatric Pirate posted:maybe there's a middle ground, a middle ground where we pay for things like education for kids and care for the disabled, but where we don't give you your disability checks just so you can post on the forums for 20 hours per day its cheaper to house the "useless" and give them internet connections, food, water, medical care, etc than it is to deal with them when you push them on to the streets
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May 6, 2015 18:50
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Geriatric Pirate posted:I'm not seeing why they need an internet connection to keep them entertained cheaper than cable plus its pretty much required if you want to join the workforce, might as well make it available
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May 6, 2015 18:52
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Typo posted:You already have shelters etc to deal with this. not enough of them also shelters aren't the answer, permanent residency is Typo posted:The problem isn't so much state housing, the problem is that a huge % of homeless people are mentally ill and there's is a under-capacity to deal with this medically. uhh actually it's both, hth
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May 6, 2015 18:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Let today be forever noted as when asdf32 argued that the numbers 15 and 100 were pretty much the same thing. Clearly the child of the rich when they embrace inequality but don't grasp just how much those zeros matter
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May 8, 2015 04:30
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asdf32 posted:Here you unironically state the idiotic and undoubtedly internally inconsistent notion that somone's life is attached to their employer. welcome to America it's pretty much textbook that you're (people who have to work for a living, not relaxing on their dad's inheritance) expected to provide for yourself via the employer in this society, welcome, enjoy your stay
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May 8, 2015 15:39
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rudatron posted:Is intellectual child labor illegal? would this thread exist if it were?
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May 8, 2015 16:44
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asdf32 posted:Define "rich". your posting asdf32 posted:Answer: 42% of people make under $15 an hour. 4.3% make minimum wage today. Thus an increase to $15 is roughly a 10X increase (1 order of magnitude) in the number of people impacted by minimum wage and simultaneously increases the wages to every one of them. That's larger than an order of magnitude in terms of dollars.
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May 9, 2015 00:47
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VitalSigns posted:The biggest problem facing the nonworking poor is the high prices caused by the greed of workers wanting to pay for their kids to see a doctor. im down
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May 9, 2015 02:15
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tsa posted:So 50 / hr then? im down
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May 9, 2015 20:32
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Series DD Funding posted:A national $15 minimum wage is just as out of the question as a mincome is for now. no it isnt
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May 10, 2015 04:23
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asdf32 posted:don't raise minimum wage and start divorcing welfare from employment now. i think you'll find everyone here agrees
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May 13, 2015 22:19
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do you expect much more from a bunch of privileged children whose only interest is in preserving the status quo so that daddy keeps sending them their checks
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May 14, 2015 16:02
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Jarmak posted:That's not a bad faith argument its an unsupported argument, and as I said with my second post in this thread neither side of this debate has particularly well supported argument, both sides are based mostly on inferences and gut feelings. you're aware the rest of the developed world managed to provide for their poor much better than we do without catastrophic economic effects i'd call that a little more than a gut feeling
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May 14, 2015 17:15
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really the living/minimum wage issue comes down to this should employers be allowed to hire people for less than a living wage? I don't really see any benefit for us to allow this
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May 14, 2015 17:16
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Jarmak posted:You're aware that you just made this up and it isn't at all true? (based on minimum wage talk) I actually didn't make it up, the lowest wages in most first world countries are much higher than in the US. Effectronica posted:One thing that is generally ignored is the negative economic (and social, but let's avoid asdf or wateroverfire talking about that) effects from the working poor having to make up the difference between the living wage and their actual wage. This is, in all probability, because the position against increase is one that is purely conservative, without any actual underpinnings beyond change being bad. It is because it only takes half a brain to deduce that the entire point of regulation is to place reasonable restrictions on business practices. Paying less than a living wage is just slavery by another name, it's sad that our society allows it.
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May 14, 2015 18:19
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asdf32 posted:Well your notion of a living wage is below the GDP PPP per capita for most countries. So there's that problem. Not for this one. I'm saying we can do better than "most countries" (in the developed world), which are already ahead of us. The US has way more available wealth.
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May 14, 2015 18:52
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JohnGalt posted:Is there any peer reviewed literature exploring the effect of a $15 min wage on higher wages? this thread
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May 18, 2015 16:59
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They're already well on your way with "disruptions" like Uber, AirBNB, Lyft, Taskrabbit, etc that are little more innovation than simply using "contractors" instead of employees
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May 20, 2015 16:55
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Series DD Funding posted:Nah all of those except Taskrabbit are real innovation, even if their ethics leave something to be desired. the only reason that those companies are able to compete is that they are built to explicitly evade regulatory structures that the existing players have to operate under where's the innovation exactly
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May 20, 2015 17:29
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JeffersonClay posted:I'm suggesting a minimum wage for each locality based on the average wage in that locality. lol JeffersonClay posted:Could it go higher and provide more benefits? Yes quote:Is there some point at which the minimum wage would become too high and actually start harming workers?
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May 20, 2015 22:09
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JeffersonClay posted:Hopefully the poor can eat ethics, then. Employment shouldn't be tied to survival, hth
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May 20, 2015 22:18
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JeffersonClay posted:Then what's the point of a living wage if you don't need a wage to live? Let me save you some time, I don't care if unemployment goes up as a result of increasing the minimum wage. It will only force us to deal with a problem we're already not dealing with (the unemployable). Feel free to concern troll.
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May 20, 2015 22:46
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Series DD Funding posted:Ah, an accelerationist. More that I'm skeptical there would be any significant impacts to unemployment and see no issue with raising the minimum wage slowly until we've reached a living wage. The data isn't terribly compelling with regards to employment losses due to minimum wage hikes and given that we're in a huge demand slump, putting money back in the pockets of the working poor is a good idea. Allowing companies to pay less than a living wage is unethical
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May 21, 2015 00:06
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asdf32 posted:I do have some idea. 
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May 22, 2015 17:57
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Jarmak posted:"well Dad said if I had another piece of cake I'd be sick and I wasn't, so this time I'm going shove the whole loving cake in my mouth cause clearly nothing bad will happen" lol
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May 23, 2015 21:32
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Geriatric Pirate posted:google "David Neumark", go to his website, read his papers ahahahaha
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May 27, 2015 00:55
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