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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Sanctum posted:

And yeah you never had to haul poo poo back from a random cave in morrowind either. There were multiple ways of getting back, walking was for plebs.

No power fantasy single player first person RPG since then has had the balls or really such an uncannily appropriate story for letting you utterly break it. Or free levitate.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

BenRGamer posted:

What's funny is if you play Morrowind today and get rid of the fog, all of the settlements have dwemer, daedric, or otherwise general dungeons less than twenty yards away.

In fact just about everything is 20 yards or less away from something else.

Morrowind was really compact

A lot of fog and winding mountain paths really make it feel huge.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
It kind of feels like the modern games cover a spectrum of how hard the place got nuked, from 3 where DC was mostly rubble and the handful of settlements felt tiny and tenuous, to 4 where the city got hit decently hard and the settlements are small but the world between them feels a little more lively with farms and traders, to NV where Vegas never got hit and is starting to interact with larger powers from places that have come farther in rebuilding (places from 2) than the Commonwealth has yet. With the settlements in 4 you're basically building the world up from a level barely better than 3 into a situation more like a region that would be in 2 or NV.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
In NV you start the game with a quest to find who shot you that leads you straight to the platinum chip/robot army quests.

The only difference in NV is you can ignore it entirely and murder everyone for the NCR - even Wild Card basically gets you back on the plot tracks.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

coyo7e posted:

The thing is, that Fallout 3 is almost pitch-perfect "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" material. You know that you grew up slightly ostracized because *reasons* and you have no emotional baggage to stay because *mom's dead and dad's already outside - aka "reasons"*, and then you leave because something happened that pushed you over the edge and reminded you that you don't really belong in the vault with everybody else and have bigger things to accomplish, whereas the story of 99% of humanity would begin and end with "you grew up in this vault, you're normal, and you will live here your whole life and die here." The protagonist has to be singled out as different otherwise they cannot be set up to go on a big life/world-changing mission. That's been the standard for every fallout game and for all the TES games I can think of as well, just a "you're different - get to it!" and then you're left to pursue or ignore the story as you like.

Fallout 4 has a fundamentally different approach on this. They give you a family, they force you to spend ten or twenty minutes with them and then rip them away from you, and then say, "okay you're alive, go to it!" There is nothing heroic or mythological about the protagonist in fallout 4, he's literally just some shmuck who got shafted and has very realistic reasons to lose his poo poo and chase after revenge, but very little reason to believe that you're the chosen one who is fated to be the deciding factor between all of the lives of different characters, all of the relationships between differing factions, etc. You just kind of wander around hollering GIMME BACK MY SON often enough to be disorienting.

The hero is a man 200 years out of time, maybe the only one in the world, ripped from the Old World and shoved into the wastelands without 200 years as a ghoul or having been only a baby or anything else. He's completely singular in the entire series as a pre-war human (not just a Vault Dweller) confronting the wasteland. The wife and baby seem almost secondary really, the protag in 4 lost his entire world (except his robot butler but again, the robots mostly got there the slow way, living through 200 years+ of emerging wastelands). You're not just some schmuck with a family, you're one of the most unique characters in the whole series.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
There's some railroading but probably not to a particularly unusual extent for the genre. I agree the real issue, such as it is, is the fact that your background doesn't get used much. You were a very specific creature in Torment and they built the whole game around connecting with that. This guy barely does anything except correct people about the rules of baseball.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Jay Rust posted:

The worst part of Fallout 4 might be this thread

It's a great game and I hope we see a refinement on the systems it's set up in this "generation", just like 2 and NV had such solid foundations to build really incredible games on. This series has spoiled us that way.

Edit: the settlements are goofy but the system is a game changer.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

NecroMonster posted:

I would argue that it's an absolutely loving excellent game, held back from being an instant and enduring classic thanks to a number of design and story telling flaws.

Agreed, and honestly New Vegas might not have been the enduring classic that it seems to be without some excellent DLC and a robust mod scene.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I didn't like how chopped up the overworld was in 3, roaming Boston is a lot more fun than the relatively dull and uninteresting Vegas outskirts or the smaller areas that made up DC.

It's great how vertical things are, especially.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Obsidian does some great stuff but they're not magic or infallible, especially not with the awful pressures KOTOR 2 was under. Bethesda games all have a consistent feel to them as far as TES and Fallout go and I wish they'd develop a little more as far as the plots and quests. It's been like iterations on Morrowind since, well, Morrowind.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I can't reliably get anyone to move to Sanctuary, while the rest of my towns are filling up.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Deified Data posted:

Really? That's interesting, and directly contradicted by the crew of the Constitution having no record of her service.

Nora was a black-ops wetwork specialist confirmed.

One could question the reliability of that bunch, but that'd be treason against the only sane organization in the Commonwealth.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I find it hard to care too much about the east coast in general, if they make it across the Midwest the vicious legions of whoever you sided with in NV will viciously exterminate synths or whatever.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

coyo7e posted:

hate to break it to ya, but if you're not literally semi-auto rifle-specced, you ain't gonna make that shot without savescumming like a motherfucker.

I forget where he is but I remember just rushing him and gunning him down with a big rear end gun, worked pretty well.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

JackBadass posted:

They took the Who pudding, they took the roast beast. They cleaned out that workshop as quick as a flash. Why, the settlers even took the last can of Who hash.

Does anything else happen on in game holiday dates other than the Diamond City guards talking about it being Christmas?

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Why aren't there more sweet sweet Atom Cats quests. Everything about them is the best.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I kept getting killed by the exploding sentry bot on the roof with the assaultron and the set of power armor. I eventually whittled him down to nearly dead, ran away, and lobbed a mini nuke at him from the USS Constitution.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

MageMage posted:

Hi,

My laptop is roached and I need to get a new one. I am trying to be at the bare bones economical to-the-wall minimum to play Fallout 4 and still have a pleasant gaming experience. Does anyone have any recommendations for a laptop? I can not do a PC as I travel.

I love Toshibas but I'm open to anything. I appreciate any replies.

My budget is maybe 500-800??ish

Console probably

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
What do you guys think of the level gated crafting perks? (aka level gated weapon and armor upgrades)? I find it pretty satisfying that my guns last a number of levels and grow with me throughout the game, and that with crafting perks you can get the best mods without scrounging for them on vendors.

While there are definitely some straight upgrade paths, especially in armor, things like automatic receivers, caliber swaps, and power armor mods can really lend a different feel to an item and let your make a gun work with commando vs rifleman etc. which is really neat.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

a lot of perk requirements could stand to be 10-15 levels earlier

That'd give it several levels of being way powerful compared to vendors and drops too which would make them more viable than just as conveniences or simple gates.

Levels for commando or whatever are probably cool as is and local leader just needs to freakin die

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Atom Cats should be able to help build the teleporter imo

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Morrowind did a much better job of expecting you to be special I think. Fighting gods and poo poo a flying immortal dude is pretty expected.

When you're a general with a literal castle and whatever else you've built (very likely the most heavily armed and fortified faction in the commonwealth) and no one acknowledges it, it's really goofy.

A settlement oriented PC is a huge warlord.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Do the attacks scale to the threat level the zone was generated at or whatever, just like turrets do, so Red Rocket will always get scrubs and some remote southern farm will get behemoths?

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Why are the minutemen hanging out in sanctuary anyway, I liberated you guys a giant castle!

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Man I can't believe building the teleporter didn't culminate in a fight, I built a huge hangar over it with guns and everything.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Finally decided to go into the institute. Game is horrible now, institute and brotherhood are space Nazis and railroad is morons, gonna shoot everyone and turn the commonwealth into Minecraft.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I just got and instantly failed three attacks so I have no clue. They never kill those two assholes in sanctuary anyway.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Just finished game with Minutemen. Very satisfying to blow up Brotherhood and Institute. Those guys were all dicks. Wish there had been an option to just take over the Institute facilities though, I mean I killed everyone in there anyway.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
I never got that quest (I shot Father and cool coat guy in the faces and blew up their houses). Is it as baffling as tree rest of the main quest?

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

homeless poster posted:

edit: don't think of the game as an rpg where you are guiding john fallout through an intense story; think of it as minecraft-lite with an arbitrary end point

Ok, no regrets for Minuteman ending then. Preston and Sturges were the best of bad options.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

BillmasterCozb posted:

build a staircase to the roof so you can body slam them off of it

I surrounded that entire house with a huge metal box and they stopped going on the roof or the roof over the roof. I wish they'd hang out at my prewar house but I just RP that I always liked that one better anyway.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Zephyrine posted:

Which isn't enough for an automatic weapon in this game

Worked fine for me all game until I switched to Survival and needed more bullets for the spongey enemies.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Nichael posted:

It probably wasn't worth the added budget to model and animate that version of her, but it would've been awesome.

The version of her that made it in wasn't worth doing at all, neither were the Longs. More Castle and Quincy content would've been the way to go.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Backhand posted:

Poppycock and nonsense, clearly what gamers want is immortal NPCs occupying the most convenient home base location at all times and complaining literally endlessly. It helps instill a sense of humility in the player, after all the godlike power they accumulate in the wastes!

Infuriating that

A) it's not even your house
B) you can't send Sturges away to live at the Castle. At least Preston can go there.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
It's not very expensive, mostly uses aluminum, I buy shipments with my water baron money.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

GET MY BELT SON posted:

everytime i travel to rrhq d.b. runs up to tell me t.t. needs to speak with me but the only thing he does is try to sell me his lovely warez. is there something i'm missing? like triggering a quest or something?

Shoot them all

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Arcsquad12 posted:

Probably a lack of fusion cores in NCR. They still rely on hydroelectric power since they've moved past scavenging, and FCs only go so far. So they just strip the frame out of the power armor and use the pieces as really really heavy plating.

Yeah that makes kinda sense too like we saw places making good new guns in New Vegas and there were tons of guns but almost everything in the Commonwealth is prewar scavenged and heavily rebuilt or pipe rifle quality other than Institute weapons.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe
Replaying New Vegas right now and even modded to get rid of the irritating repair system it's just not as fun as Boston. I miss the heftier power armor and the open urban environment so much and the lore and better story just don't make up for the brown empty world.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

woodenchicken posted:

The only part of New Vegas I thought looked crappy was Honest Hearts. Cartoony-rear end mountains, you expect Wile.ECoyote to show up any moment.

Yeah it mostly looks good, if brown. The thing that doesn't hold up is the kind of awkward emptiness in places like Freeside and Westside, the Bethesda approach leaves a lot fewer places where you just end up bored with walking around (but more areas are just strictly combat). Too bad the main quest in 4 is awkwardly empty and boring.

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shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

Fun Shoe

Hedgehog Pie posted:

I do have a question that's probably been answered a thousand times already, but I did (skim)check the most recent pages and found nothing. I'm (I think) near the end of the main quest, down the Minutemen strand. I'm now at "Form Ranks", which asks you to recruit more settlements. Everywhere online tells me I need just eight, but surely I have more than that if by settlement it means "a place where I can use a workshop and where people are living". Someone on another site recommended waiting for the "Old Guns" quest to trigger, finishing it, and then seeing what happens. Should I do this, or is there anything else I can try? Thanks in advance.

I think to finish 4 with Minutemen you have to get thrown out of the Institute.

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