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frankly i find this line of discussion thrilling and enjoy seeing it everywhere i go
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Jun 9, 2015 03:19
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| # ? May 12, 2024 15:24 |
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It must be hard hearing that oppressed minorities exist |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:22
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does anything really exist?
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Jun 9, 2015 03:24
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Gross Dude posted:It must be hard hearing that oppressed minorities exist ---------------- |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:26
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Glass Bottom Boat posted:frankly i find this line of discussion thrilling and enjoy seeing it everywhere i go me too https://i.imgur.com/xQxnooW.png |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:26
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oh my god are we seriously going down the "yeah because" low level irony route now
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Jun 9, 2015 03:27
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smdh
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Jun 9, 2015 03:30
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stop greg
paul_soccer12 posted:everyone in the idf must die |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:32
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CAT BRUSH posted:stop greg are you telling greg to stop himself or are you telling us to stop greg i need to know |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:33
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suburban white girl in her mid 20s to black man who grew up in brooklyn: youre not allowed to talk about
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Jun 9, 2015 03:35
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pig slut lisa posted:are you telling greg to stop himself or are you telling us to stop greg i need to know yes paul_soccer12 posted:everyone in the idf must die |
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Jun 9, 2015 03:36
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dogcrash truther posted:humor is the tool of the oppressor, and the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house .................ROFL!!! |
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Jun 9, 2015 22:19
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Pedantra posted:how do you think society postures itself in accordance to outsiders in the first place? by mocking them ya this is right. if your joke makes stigmatized groups the butt of the joke you are worthless and exploitative. humor should be progressive, not regressive and comedians who are regressive are basically guilty of hate crimes: they reinforce the worst ideas about races in dangerously prolific memes (in the original sense of the word) that get passed from person to person, reinforcing already held beliefs with their garbage speech |
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Jun 9, 2015 22:43
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suicide bi cop posted:suburban white girl in her mid 20s to black man who grew up in brooklyn: youre not allowed to talk about when has this ever happened if you are going to criticize someone's speech you should have a complaint. you don't just say 'you should shut up because you're bad'. |
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Jun 9, 2015 22:45
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that vox article is so obnoxious here's another vox article: http://www.vox.com/2015/6/5/8736591/liberal-professor-identity |
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Jun 9, 2015 22:51
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joke_explainer posted:humor should be progressive i dont know exactly why but reading this makes me annoyed |
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Jun 9, 2015 22:59
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comedians making racist jokes are basically cashing checks in on hundreds of years of systematic oppression they directly, monetarily benefit from destroying people's opportunities in life. no one is forcing them to do that, they just know there's a market for people that will hoot and holler and go "yup that's exactly what them racial slurs are like!!" just imagine how many men who view women as subhuman garbage loved hearing daniel tosh ridiculous 'comeback' for complaining about his rape jokes. its really hosed up |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:00
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dogcrash truther posted:i dont know exactly why but reading this makes me annoyed well, it should be neutral or progressive I guess. But really it should be progressive... if your use of stereotypes doesn't elucidate something relevant to the reality of the situation, if the impact of your jokes is strengthening people's racism, you're contributing to the systematic attack on the victim of those stereotypes that's been going on forever. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:02
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joke_explainer posted:that vox article is so obnoxious ya i saw the first one being posted a lot and i thought wow thats dumb and i thought vox was sort of ok so i went and saw that one its way better but nobody is reading it. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:02
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joke_explainer posted:well, it should be neutral or progressive I guess. But really it should be progressive... if your use of stereotypes doesn't elucidate something relevant to the reality of the situation, if the impact of your jokes is strengthening people's racism, you're contributing to the systematic attack on the victim of those stereotypes that's been going on forever. i guess i t seems to me like humor comes from a complicated place and the clear cut and categorical way youre talking about it just doesn't bear a relation to the process of actually making, or hearing, jokes |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:04
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i am he posted:ya i saw the first one being posted a lot and i thought wow thats dumb and i thought vox was sort of ok so i went and saw that one its way better but nobody is reading it. its getting posted a lot round about my parts. i think its a lot more accurate than the other one but it does miss the way that the relationship between students and teachers and students and the educational process really has changed and what the implications are for discussions in the classroom. like yeah, there's the aspect of being afraid of losing your job, but there's also just the aspect of trying to talk about something and getting derailed or shouted down by students who conceive of their education in consumerist terms |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:08
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dogcrash truther posted:i guess i t seems to me like humor comes from a complicated place and the clear cut and categorical way youre talking about it just doesn't bear a relation to the process of actually making, or hearing, jokes I know it seems very cut and dry and yeah humor can be nuanced and all over the place and of course there's always context and perspective weighing in on the issue. You could easily make a joke that you don't understand the racist impact of, especially growing up in a racist culture, and that's still bad of course but obviously you weren't intending it. It's basically, can you make an argument for the joke that is non-racist? If you can't at all, it's a loving hate crime disguised as a joke. If you can, maybe it is racist, maybe its not, but at least you have some kind of defense. I've seen a lot of completely indefensible jokes that the teller had no intention of trying to do anything but attack blacks or women with. Like what is the punch line in saying "Hey, there's a black guy in that photo, better watch out or he'll steal your TV." It's just loving hate speech, its not a joke, there is no defense of it. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:09
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joke_explainer posted:I know it seems very cut and dry and yeah humor can be nuanced and all over the place and of course there's always context and perspective weighing in on the issue. You could easily make a joke that you don't understand the racist impact of, especially growing up in a racist culture, and that's still bad of course but obviously you weren't intending it. i don't know that we should be making arguments for jokes. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:10
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dogcrash truther posted:i don't know that we should be making arguments for jokes. WN tried, look what happened |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:12
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dogcrash truther posted:i don't know that we should be making arguments for jokes. A joke has an implicit argument in it though. The assumptions that make the joke reflect some cultural concept, whether its just like the concept of a chicken and a road or whatever or more deep concepts like racism. You can't claim the joke has no relevance to these things, so the joke makes an argument whether you want it to or not. Now it could be a satirical one, but rehashing the same tired stereotypes over and over isn't satire, it's just exploitation imho. I'm not talking about like censorship or anything though, I think people should be allowed to say whatever they want. I just think they should get dumped on for lovely speech unless they can defend it. "I was just making a joke" is a lovely out, and profiting off racism is pretty loving awful. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:13
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joke_explainer posted:when has this ever happened the whole idea of trying to shut down discourse based on the demographic of someones view seems retarded though, if you disagree with someone, and it turns out theyre majority demographic X (where X is white, male, het, cis, whatever) that somehows lends credibility to your argument? what if someone is wrong because X then they come out as gay or trans or whatever? does that suddenly bring validation to their argument or views, it's seems super common in internet social justice but it falls apart if you poke at it with a stick for more than a few seconds ---------------- |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:15
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Right or wrong arguments don't change based on sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, etc. Not sure why you would think that. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:20
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lol jerry seinfeld is the cleanest comedian out there this whole thing doesnt make any sense at all |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:22
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joke_explainer posted:Right or wrong arguments don't change based on sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, etc. Not sure why you would think that. i dont think they do, but it seems a common counter-argument or defense from internet social justice people, the whole "check your privilege" or sarcastic "as a white male" responses to anyone not in the right demographic, ive even seen people from black lgbtq groups disparaging caitlyn jenner for being white and privileged etc. ---------------- |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:28
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joke_explainer posted:A joke has an implicit argument in it though. The assumptions that make the joke reflect some cultural concept, whether its just like the concept of a chicken and a road or whatever or more deep concepts like racism. You can't claim the joke has no relevance to these things, so the joke makes an argument whether you want it to or not. Now it could be a satirical one, but rehashing the same tired stereotypes over and over isn't satire, it's just exploitation imho. yeah i dont deny that jokes are cultural productions, but i dont know that i would call that "making an argument," and i definitely still dont think that you need to make an argument *for* any particular joke. theres no defense for humor except the desire to laugha nd maybe feel lik ey youre part of something |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:33
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Let me be a little more clear. There's certain elements of being black no white person can ever understand. This has been gone over in a lot of the literature. You can read about it a lot, but you'll always be an outsider looking in on it. I can't imagine what the real psychic weight of being enmeshed in a system of systematic racism against you. I just don't live in that world, and no matter how many perspectives I listen to I'm not going to fully understand it (though I do feel like listening has given me some perspective on it, there's still stuff I will never ever get and I'm still definitely racist -- everyone has racial prejudices the should be trying to overcome and they will probably always be trying.) Then there's things like being a woman. Again, no man can really understand the challenges women face in the workplace, in every sphere of life where there's interactions with men and the systematic oppression of women in this country. When (non-harassing) men hear about street harassment, a lot of them just seem confused. "No, that doesn't happen. I've never seen that happen." Or they think, "Ha, golly, if some woman told me I looked good, it'd make my day!". This is because their own experience is so divorced from the reality of street harassment. At a glance they can't understand it. It's not a thing that exists in their world. These little things compound each other. A black man can't understand the challenges of being a black woman completely. Etc, etc. So there's perspective to be had from these viewpoints. When auditoriums full of white people were laughing it up at blackface comedy at its height, the voices speaking against it were completely drowned out. 'No its not, it's funny, come on, lighten up.' So this is the basic tenet of intersectionality -- there's perspectives you can't understand, and ways for things to be hurtful that you certainly haven't considered before. But you don't have to be black to understand why blackface is hurtful, it just took a long, long time for someone to really explain it to people in language they understood. (Not that that stopped it, of course the oppressors will go on with their poo poo as long as they possibly can until it becomes completely inviable.) So perspectives can be useful for shining light on an argument, but it doesn't just make an argument right or invalid. I mean, Thomas Jefferson made some good points despite being a white, heterosexual rich dude who raped his own slaves. That's pretty hosed up -- no one would want to be friends with someone like that -- but it doesn't mean everything he ever wrote is automatically wrong. The key point is just try not to get defensive. If people are offended at what you have said, ask why and actually listen to what they say, if they're willing to describe it. If they aren't, maybe examine what you said and see if you can find the fault. If nothing, well, it could still be a mistake but you have no information really to go on, so go for it. It's just an act of good faith to examine your speech and see what might be hurtful in it. Hell, I'm kind of worried about referencing Thomas Jefferson as that is some seriously awful poo poo but I think it illustrates the point well and the impact shouldn't be too harmful. I try to think about this stuff when I'm writing things and I think its important for all interpersonal discussion as we continue to grow up as a species. Shared context is nice just like having tons of in jokes can be fun, but obviously not everyone is going to be part of your little clique and sometimes its worthwhile to consider these things. |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:46
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sorry pedantra for making the most softball argument ever |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:49
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back in my day, Political Correctness just meant 'being tolerant, polite and not a shithead' but I guess that;s too PC for everyone nowadays
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Jun 9, 2015 23:53
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GODSPEED JOHN GLENN posted:back in my day, Political Correctness just meant 'being tolerant, polite and not a shithead' but I guess that;s too PC for everyone nowadays im a shithead ---------------- |
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Jun 9, 2015 23:55
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suicide bi cop posted:im a shithead a lot of people seem convinced that its impossible to be polite because people are 'too sensitive', but I feel like if you are routinely getting complaints there's definitely something off about your behavior |
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Jun 10, 2015 00:00
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I learned a lot today, about humor. |
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Jun 10, 2015 05:15
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shut it down |
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Jun 10, 2015 05:24
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it's a good thing byob isn't funny |
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Jun 10, 2015 13:43
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this thread was really informative and, hell, it made me think |
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Jun 10, 2015 15:10
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| # ? May 12, 2024 15:24 |
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dogcrash truther posted:like thats often the thing that comedians say, that comedy brings up important issues, but you know what also does that, is not comedy, and not comedy doe s it more effectively ever try to bring up important issues in a non-funny way hoping to spark something in the public consciousness? 
☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭ |
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Jun 10, 2015 15:15
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