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Cleanporn is for real a thing after this, guys..
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Jul 31, 2016 00:50
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:36 |
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Well, as usual I'm terrible at taking pictures while I work, but I did get the ultrasonic cleaner setup. Very handy, even if it doesn't make things as clean as Nils gets them, haha. Threw the head studs in to see if they could be saved:  The water was clean but the ultrasonic cleaner immediately makes any surface grit cloud off the parts:  And a few minutes later:  The final product isn't quite good as new, but will work well enough for this bike:  After that, spent some time cleaning any residual WPC material off the cams, reinstalled some of the head dowels, and got the cams in for tension testing on the new and old chain. That gave me some baseline values to shoot for with the new cam chain tensioner. From there, some measurements, some screwing about, and that led me back to the comfort of CAD, as it always seems to do:  I'm still waiting on cam chain guides to show up for final fitting, but once those do, it should just be drilling some holes and making sure everything lines up, the chain is tensioned appropriately, and then doing the vertical tensioner. Also, look at this loving exhaust: http://www.samurider.com/?p=10412 Z3n fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 07:05
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Are those studs torque-to-yield? All the ones I've seen with those spiral thingies have been TTY but I've never seen them outside of a car engine.
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Aug 1, 2016 08:08
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No - early on Honda had issues with head studs snapping under the contraction if it was run hard and then stopped while still very hot. So they swapped to the spiral studs as they are stronger/flex better. There are copper crush washers that go on them, so they can't be torque to yield 
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Aug 1, 2016 17:20
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Z3n posted:No - early on Honda had issues with head studs snapping under the contraction if it was run hard and then stopped while still very hot. So they swapped to the spiral studs as they are stronger/flex better. There are copper crush washers that go on them, so they can't be torque to yield That's really interesting! Is this just a cbx thing or do the 750's have it too?
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Aug 1, 2016 19:57
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I think it's just a CBX thing, can't bring myself to give a poo poo about plebeian 750s. 
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Aug 1, 2016 20:33
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http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/2013-mv-agusta-f3-675-4500-northern-ca.334502/
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Aug 7, 2016 03:23
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BlackMK4 posted:http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/2013-mv-agusta-f3-675-4500-northern-ca.334502/ umm uhh Could do a...http://www.viba-motor.fr/ fffff
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Aug 7, 2016 06:42
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1290 poo poo? 1290 poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLij34S8nPY
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Aug 18, 2016 03:17
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Insert a clip of Guy Martin saying 'loving Proper' here
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Aug 18, 2016 03:20
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Z3n posted:1290 poo poo? 1290 poo poo. Fuckin rules.
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Aug 18, 2016 03:43
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Hahaha, wheelies on a 1290 SMR in an Aerostich
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Aug 18, 2016 04:53
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It brings me no end of happiness to see such a wondrous creation actually thrashed around and used for it's divine purpose. That string of stairs? Insane.
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Aug 18, 2016 22:32
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I wanna chill w/ dreds man next time I'm there. Is that the mythbusters lot?
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Aug 18, 2016 23:34
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That's down in alameda, right by the myth busters lot. Definitely hit me up when you're back in town. No updates on the CBX lately, had some family stuff come up which has lead to this: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3787387 Hopefully back to regularly scheduled CBX things in time for the trackday, but that might be delayed by a short time spent doing dirt oval car racing in Oregon because dropping in to do some racing would mean the world to my family.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:49
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 Mustered some motivation with all that was going on, and fit the swingarm axle spacer - bolts up perfectly. Hopefully this weekend I'll have time to do some final grinding/marking on the swingarm for the welder, and then I'll just need to design the shock mounts and it will be a roller again! I think I have all of the parts needed for the CCTs as well, now, so just need to do some machining on that as well.
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Aug 24, 2016 06:27
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hosed up the last drill hole on the upper CCT. Have to make another one. Lower CCT off to the Netherlands for rebuild. Bottom end is assembled, need lower CCT, correctly made upper CCT, and then I can put it all back together. Should probably clean the valves while I'm at it, too. Maybe be done by Christmas?  Bought a Tractive shock for the BMW. Life goes on.
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Dec 1, 2016 07:50
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Z3n posted:
Those are the ones that are also sold under the Touratech brand right? Supposed to be fantastic shocks.
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Dec 2, 2016 19:36
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Yeah they make the touratech shocks - this one is unique because it retains all the OEM spring rate changing elastomers and electronic damping/etc. tractive made the tech that BMW licensed for the ESA2.
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Dec 3, 2016 08:46
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Z3n posted:hosed up the last drill hole on the upper CCT. Have to make another one. Lower CCT off to the Netherlands for rebuild. Stalking you. Get busy! :-)
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Dec 14, 2016 01:07
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Z3n posted:Yeah they make the touratech shocks - this one is unique because it retains all the OEM spring rate changing elastomers and electronic damping/etc. tractive made the tech that BMW licensed for the ESA2. What sort of advantages does it have over OEM then?
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Dec 14, 2016 02:10
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NobleHops posted:Stalking you. Get busy! :-) Ha! Been very busy lately, thankfully things seem to be coming around and I should start moving forward more quickly. kuffs posted:What sort of advantages does it have over OEM then? It's rebuildable, and has a combination of a more traditional shim stack and finer grade control over the electronic damping side of things. It uses the OEM preload adjustment which uses the elastomer design to change effective spring rate, not just spring preload like your typical shock setup. I've got 26k on the bike now and the suspension is starting to feel a little less refined so this should fix it up nicely. Probably do the forks with their kit in another few months.
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Dec 15, 2016 06:56
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Z3n posted:Ha! Been very busy lately, thankfully things seem to be coming around and I should start moving forward more quickly. Are you able to explain what this means? I don't understand.
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Dec 15, 2016 07:05
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Slavvy posted:Are you able to explain what this means? I don't understand. Rather than having a traditional shock spring, it has an elastomer at the top of the spring. That elastomer means the first part of the shock travel is actually at the spring rate of the elastomer, rather than the shock itself. When you change the "preload", you're compressing the elastomer, which changes the effective spring rate it provides. When you have the preload maxed out, the elastomer is completely compressed, so it's just the straight spring rate.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:32
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Z3n posted:Rather than having a traditional shock spring, it has an elastomer at the top of the spring. That elastomer means the first part of the shock travel is actually at the spring rate of the elastomer, rather than the shock itself. When you change the "preload", you're compressing the elastomer, which changes the effective spring rate it provides. When you have the preload maxed out, the elastomer is completely compressed, so it's just the straight spring rate. So it's like a huge fuckoff bump stop trapped between the spring and preload adjuster?
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Dec 16, 2016 05:36
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Slavvy posted:So it's like a huge fuckoff bump stop trapped between the spring and preload adjuster? Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy.
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Dec 16, 2016 07:22
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That's pretty cool, I'm surprised it isn't more common cause it seems like a reasonably cheap way of Making A Better Shock.
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Dec 17, 2016 06:50
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Slavvy posted:That's pretty cool, I'm surprised it isn't more common cause it seems like a reasonably cheap way of Making A Better Shock. I'd imagine it's mostly that the existing setup works well enough. My current struggle on the CBX is with this:    The front cam chain guide has some cracking and has some damage on one of the side rails. Replacements are hard to come by, and so expensive it borderline makes sense to just buy an engine or another bike instead. So what say you, guys, would you run it? On the bright side, the rest of the engine is coming together nicely:  Also decided to try to test fit a ZX6 swingarm instead of the ZRX one, as I decided I both would like to avoid losing the centerstand and that I would like to not have to cut/grind on the frame if at all possible. With some parts mix and match, it should mostly bolt on. Will need to have 2 shock mounts welded in but that's not a big deal.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:39
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Z3n posted:I'd imagine it's mostly that the existing setup works well enough. Consider a zephyr 1100 swinger, it bolts onto the ZRX but allows a center stand. I'd run that tensioner but I would always be thinking, in the back of my mind, about how brittle it looks and I'd have nightmares about chunks flaking off. Maybe you could find a tensioner of a similar length off another bike and bodge something up to make it work?
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Dec 26, 2016 23:12
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Oh, neat, I'll have to check that out at some point. Already have the ~$60 worth of parts needed to fit a ZX6 swingarm on the way, though. Only downside is you lose the trick adjusters the ZRX/Zephyr uses. I managed to find a tensioner / guide setup for $150 on ebay, unfortunately it doesn't have the secondary tensioner I need, just the guide and the primary tensioner. Oh well.
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Dec 26, 2016 23:19
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I wouldn't run it after seeing the shitshow that was the inside of my 675 after it failed.
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Dec 26, 2016 23:58
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the abrasion is fine. the cracks are a huge loving nope. Nylons glass point around 50C. get it a little warm and give it a good smack test. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 03:52
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You can machine glass-filled nylon with carbide tools. Make a Solidworks model of the guide and get it CNCd from a blank.
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Dec 28, 2016 18:24
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It is bonded to a metal core, which is the problem with just having a new one cut / made 
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Dec 28, 2016 20:00
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Well, have some time off, so hopefully will be able to make some additional progress over the long weekend! But the success of today is - with the spacer I had knocked up, a ZX6 swingarm bolts straight in, minus the shock mounts, which are available from Stites on the ZRXOA. This means a couple of great things - no shock spacers needed, no cutting, I can probably retain the centerstand and it clears the sidestand, and will likely clear the 6 into 1 exhaust as well. I think if I strip the polish off the exhaust, it'll also match the engine nicely, which should create a pretty nice, consistent visual effect from engine to swingarm.  This weekend is machining up some parts, and then running the stuff by my welder who does all the parts that are structural (I don't trust my limited skills to TIG in the shock mounts).  On the BMW front, disassembled the bike so I can drop the shock off at Beemer Shop tomorrow to swap the parts over to my new Tractive shock. 27.5k miles and still rock solid, but can feel that the suspension oil was starting to break down a little. If I like the shock, I'll probably do the cartridges soon. Wasn't too bad having to to disassemble the bike, I didn't bother pulling all of the front fairings, just spread them enough that I could pull the tank cover and the tank. I'd like it if I could somehow get a larger tank for the bike, as there's a decent amount of open space under the tank cover, but I don't think that's in the cards. 7 or even 8 gallons would be fantastic. A good evening of throwing parts around in the garage!
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Dec 30, 2016 07:32
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First thoughts from the new shock: Well, I've only had the chance to put about 10 miles on it, late at night in the cold, but it's fantastic. The stock spring weighed in at about 105nm, and they bumped me up to a 120, rather than the 130 sent by Tractive. I think Tractive wanted to make sure I'd be happy with the 2 up performance and chose a slightly stiffer spring for that purpose, but I'd rather lean towards solo performance, especially knowing what i know now. I also learned that these shocks don't use the elastomer setup that some of the touring bikes run, and just have a normal preload adjuster, which makes the stock performance of the bike 2 up that much more impressive. Previously I was running rider + luggage mode just to get the shock in the right ballpark rear ride height wise, which added ~10mm of preload to the shock. Moving to the 120nm spring means I'm now running in rider only mode with my topbox on, and as a result the front suspension is running a bit softer as well, which I'm assuming is what has led to the bike feeling much more composed / pulled a good chunk of the stiff behavior out of the front as well. I'm also assuming that the additional rear spring has moved some weight forward, increasing compliance on the front. As to the behavior of the shock, when I hit sharp, square edged bumps, I can still feel them but rather than having the rear suspension kick as it hits the bump, I still feel the bump, but the shock clearly soaks it up rather than feeling like it followed the top of the bump. I'd imagine this behavior will become a bit more compliant when the shock isn't bone cold and has the chance to wear in a bit, as it's still ever so slightly stiffer than I would say is absolutely ideal. Smaller road imperfections just disappear entirely, and getting aggressive on the throttle on the freeway onramp rewarded me with a predictable and smooth small slide that was much more composed than with the OEM shock. It also transfers weight a little more smoothly and less harshly, like well tuned aftermarket suspension should. In dynamic mode, it's definitely a significantly stiffer setting, but still more composed over big bumps than the stock setup in road mode while returning a more sporty feel. I'll do some longer testing between the modes tomorrow, but I'm actually thinking dynamic may end up being used on smooth/very fast roads only, as from my brief ride, I'd tag it as a true performance set up (ie, track suspension, or very close to it). I'll also point out it's a little hard to compare here, as I'm not going like -> like on these settings, as before I was running Rider + Luggage mode, and now I'm just in Rider mode, so it's possible that the real benefit here is that I can run Rider mode setup in the front with the proper spring rate on the back so it ends up much more compliant on the front and the rear, and that's why I'm seeing such a dramatic change. If I were to try and translate my feelings into changes on more traditional clickers, I'd say it feels like the shock was tuned for a bit more low speed compression damping, a bit more rebound damping, and a good amount less high speed compression damping, with the additional benefit of having that compliance that you get out of very high end aftermarket suspension (Ohlins, GP, K-Tech, etc). Swapping it to Dynamic from road mode adds significantly more low speed damping, and takes high speed damping up a ways, with rebound also changing somewhat to maintain a balanced feel against the stiffer suspension. More thoughts/miles tomorrow, but at this point, I feel like I absolutely made the right choice going to a Tractive shock. I have a feeling road mode is ideal on any road from goaty to smooth at any reasonable pace, and I'll almost never swap it into dynamic mode unless I'm taking the bike to the track or riding faster than common sense would allow.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:56
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Z3n posted:First thoughts from the new shock: Is servicing different on the tractive shock? I assume you'd just have to send it in.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:29
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builds character posted:Is servicing different on the tractive shock? I assume you'd just have to send it in. It can be rebuilt just like a normal shock. Assuming that the Beemer Shop can do it without issue as they're the tractive shop in the area. So I put on about 300 miles today in 40-50 degree weather, across all kinds of conditions from snotty and slick to dry, reasonably sun warmed pavement. I'm currently running Bridgestone T30s, which I consider to be acceptable in the dry and pretty garbage in the wet in terms of available grip. Ever since I first got the S1000XR, there's been a characteristic it has that never quite meshed with me, which is that it felt somewhat overboosted when it comes to the steering. I found myself having to constantly adjust back how much steering input I gave to the bike or I'd tend to end up dialing in more lean than I wanted. I sort of assumed that this was just a function of the geometry of the bike, and something I'd have to adjust my riding style to, which I did over the first few thousand miles I put on the bike. What I think now is that was mostly a function of running the bike with too much preload for my weight (due to needing rider + luggage mode even without luggage to get the rear ride height reasonable), so it'd load up inconsistently when initiating lean. The rear shock has completely fixed this behavior, it's now completely natural to dial in exactly as much lean angle as I want without thinking about it - likely because the spring rate is now much closer to ideal. My takeaway from the ride is that the shock is so good it's very nearly cheating. Initally riding it Road TC / Road Supension settings, I found it strongly on the sport side, but compliant with a little bit of float in the suspension to help cushion big hits. As the conditions were slick and cold, I left it in road mode, and felt very comfortable with the feedback from the rear shock, noting that a little bit of throttle on corner exit transfered weight smoothly and consistently to the rear, where I could explore how much grip was actually present quite comfortably, knowing that I had the TC ready with early intervention in case of aggressively misjudging conditions. After a few miles, I found myself reaching what felt like the limit of traction on corner exit, which I rarely have the confidence to do in slick conditions that I was experiencing today. But today I easily walked up to that limit with the amount of feedback that the shock provided - on corner exit feed in throttle until you feel the rear tire start hunting for traction, and you've found the limit. After getting comfortable with this behavior on wet corner exits, I started to wonder if I was reaching the limit of traction, or if it was just the shock having a somewhat different setup that led to a weight transfer that felt like the rear unloading a little, so I intentionally gave it a bit more than prudent, and was rewarded with a perfectly controllable slide as the bike stepped a few inches out of line without any real drama or excitement. Give it a touch more than you feel like you should on corner exit, and it'll step a touch while you're standing the bike up and once you're mostly upright it smoothly slides back into line without drama or triggering such a dramatic change in wheelspeed to cause the TC to intervene. As conditions improved as I rode more and things heated up a bit, I decided to give Dynamic mode a try, and found that my fears of it being too stiff were misplaced. Road mode would leave a little float in the chassis to improve comfort, which is great for commuting or slicker conditions, but means that if you hit a bump, there's a short period of time while the suspension settles again after a bump, as it's spreading the amount of time that bump affects the chassis out a little longer to soften the hit and rebounds more slowly to keep things feeling less harsh. In Dynamic mode, it cuts 100% of the float out of the suspension, so while you feel the bumps more, the suspension is taut enough to directly track over bumps, rather than allowing the bumps to induce any form of suspension oscillation. The softer suspension of road mode feels like it has reduced rebound damping, so the suspension takes a little longer to settle down, whereas Dynamic mode tunes for maximum performance. However, despite going up 15nm of spring in the back, the suspension is actually more compliant under use than it was previously, which is a testament to the quality of the damping in the shock - it allows you to feel those small movements without significant stiction or delay that led to me being comfortable with riding much closer to the limit on corner exit and feeling like I knew exactly what the tire was going to do. The better feedback from the rear meant I spent most of the day riding the rear tire harder than the front tire as I felt a lot more comfortable pushing power to the rear than loading up the front and risking a slide. All in all, this is still absolutely sport suspension - there's no doubt about that. But if you wanted soft rather than sport, I'm assuming you would have bought a GS / RS / S / K1600 or similar such bike rather than the S1000XR. I thought the bike was already pretty goddamn amazing, after all, I've put a few trackdays and 27k on it without complaints, but the shock is really a step above. I'll be ordering the cartridge kit ASAP, as I can definitely feel the difference in quality between the Tractive stuff and the OEM suspension. But despite that, the bike is still feels fantastically improved over stock, and I wouldn't say you have to do both together. You'll just want to after doing the shock. Also, the OEM shock isn't rebuildable, and the Tractive one is, so if you're planning on racking up the miles, you're eventually gonna torch the oil in the OEM shock, and will have to replace it no matter what. You could always eBay another OEM shock after a year or so, but I think this is a vastly superior option. Also, give the folks at Beemer Shop a good amount of information about how you ride. I think this setup might be a little on the stiff side for most riders, but it is great for me. But if they'd run the 130nm rear spring that Tractive had sent initially, I think I'd probably have lost some of the compliance I really treasure in well set up suspension, as Tractive proposed that 130nm spring to handle the 2 up I do a little better, a quick discussion with Jeff after he checked the OEM spring had us settling on a 120nm spring which I feel was the correct choice. Only other thing I've noticed is the bike is definitely a touch taller now. Haven't had the chance to run with a passenger yet, but I'm imagining that for passengers under 120 pounds, rider plus luggage mode will be more than sufficient, and for a larger passenger plus fully loaded top box, 2 rider mode will keep the bike in the sweet spot for handling.
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Jan 1, 2017 02:03
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So, regarding your EX650 ABS hack, I was reading up on the parts and it sounds like the computer for it is calibrated for specific wheel/tire sizes. They warn against fitting nonstandard tire sizes which I assume means the computer is programmed to accept only a fixed ratio of revs of the front wheel as compared to the rear. Of course the 650 has 120/70-17 front and 160/60-17 rear and a CBX has 19 front 18 rear. Did you have a solution for that?
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Jan 1, 2017 16:05
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:36 |
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Awesome review of the Tractive shock. Makes me want to send mine off as well.
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Jan 1, 2017 16:19
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